Hubei Province, October 2009

[brett]

Thanks Willy.

I talked to my lady on QQ this morning and I am satisfied that she really is busy at work. 7 day a week working and unpaid overtime on a slave wage while the boss gets rich - isn't that what communism was set up to stop :dodgy:? While I was with her she also caught up with sleep at any opportunity.

I wanted to talk about important things but it didn't feel that the timing was right. Google was also letting me down with some ridiculous translations - I could hardly even get a "did you talk to your parents about our future" out of it. It turns out she hasn't talked to them, and I'm a bit annoyed about that.

Today the weather is terrible here so this is a good thinking day. I realise that despite all the hostile reaction I got a couple of weeks back I was basically right to question our relationship. Sure, the worries about money were misplaced. Finding out how little she earnt for all that work was a huge shock to me. But my worries about the relationship were totally justified.

I think I will have to write some tough EMFs. It would break my heart to end this relationship. But in many ways my lady is still a little girl, and I really do have to question if she really wants a husband. Am I heartless? Yes. I have put a lot of effort into this relationship but I am not seeing much in return. Despite all the protests on this board my well travelled friend is absolutely right. A rich Western husband is a meal ticket for life for the average Asian woman and we should not settle for anything less than 100% commitment.

[Voiceroveip]

Hi Brett,

My 2 cts, everytime the frequency in communication has gone down during my online dating career, the relationship died. Yes some of them are very busy, my main current focus is a bit like your lady, slave job and hours, but she does office work so we QQ sometimes during the day, and she has an internet access at home so we QQ even more. Even when I am not online, she will wish me goodnight on QQ ... she makes it clear she is thinking about me, same here.

When excuses about busy schedule and work appear, be attentive. Compare to how things were before those excuses started arriving. The lack of affection when you met also has me wondering, they might be culturally reserved in public, and maybe you should have moved on her, but still. My ex grabbed my hand on our second date.

Why don't you just ask her how she feels about your relationship? If she loves you she will explain, if she doesn't, she might pretend to get upset.

Good luck!

[shaun]

Brett,

I still think you misunderstand what the men have been telling you here. Having not been to China before all I can do is relay what I have seen written. When men come back from China for the first time they go through somewhat of a trauma that is filled with doubt and questions. (The next sentence is from experience) Usually when a person goes through a highly emotionally charged period a very low period follows.)

It was not that people here did not want you to call it off with Ms. Wu, it was that they wanted you to get through the low doubt period so that you could make a better informed decision. What you do now as it was when you first came back from China is YOUR decision but now you can make that decision with a clearer head and if you CHOOSE to follow the advice of "the voice" your decision might become more clear.

I made my decision to call it quits with Pinky a few weeks ago. It may have been a good decision or it may have been a bad one but. I say that because I really do not know if I ever talked with her or the translator but I do know that I was not going to talk through THAT translator anymore and I at this point NOT TRUST chnlove because they offer NO SUPPORT except to put pictures up and take your money.

You will get a lot more than that here from the brotherhood + a couple of sisters.

Shaun

[brett]

Thanks voice - that sounds like a sensible suggestion. My eventual wife will have an incredibly tough time moving to the UK and if she does not really love me it just isn't going to work. In private I did put my arm around her but she didn't seem that comfortable with it. It is difficult to know what to make of that as she is just very naive about relationships. I will ask her about it.

I have unhidden my chnlove profile and I will reluctantly resume the hunt. Miss Wu ticks many boxes and it would burn me up inside to end the relationship. Love is clouding my judgement. I am inexperienced at relationships, but I am learning rapidly. I have been through the whole process of first contact > visiting the lady so that gives me a tremendous advantage now. Miss Wu and I would have a great life together, I am sure of that. We do make a good couple. But there has to be love there, or it's just not going to work.

[Willy The Londoner]

Brett

I told you long ago my feelings in a PM as to what I thought was happening here.

I have not read anything since then to allay those fears, quite the opposite as it seems to me that everything is pointing to the fact that I and my lady were probably correct in their assumptions.

It is good that you have made your profile visible again as I honestly believe that this current relationship is not going the way you want it to go.

I am not going to sit here  telling you it will be alright in the end because I think the end has already happened.

If you spent all that time with her and she did not react favourably to you putting your arm around her and a little hand holding then I'm sorry, niave, young or not, I think those activities would have been normal for any couple in the time you were together.  Men with more experience of relationships with women would have tried to go a lot further in that time and would have already moved on whilst there if not successful!

The choice is heartbreak now or later when you get her into the UK.

 I would take it now and look for others to relieve that heartache.

Before you went to China you was forever talking on the webcam, qq and any other means possible - since then not a lot of contact - and what contact has mostly been made has been from you.

It was a great experience Brett and part of the learning curve but it time to move on. If she wanted more than a quick entry into the UK she would have made it clear by now.  

Willy

[brett]

Thanks Willy. I am writing the tough EMF that will ask her what her true feelings are about this relationship. It will break my heart to end the relationship, but if the love is not mutual then end it I must. I do not think Miss Wu is a golddigger/after a visa. She is not after my money and is too inexperienced at relationships and not beautiful enough to be a successful golddigger.

I think it will be easier to end it if I get talking to other ladies, to reassure myself that the chances of finding somebody as fantastic as Miss Wu are greater than I think. I still have a mountain of unpaid leave, so visiting another in the Spring is a possibility.

I do not believe in predestination (that strange word that is in so many chnlove profiles!). Up to now the gigantic changes in my life have actually been down to very small incidents, like happening to buy the Guardian one weekend and spotting a job ad in it that lead to my getting involved with the dot com boom, or the rather incredible event of buying an Internet domain name as a joke, then using it to start my profitable software business. Yes I could have a good life with Miss Wu, but life with Xia the shopkeeper or Cathy the accountant could be just as good.

On the plus side, I am one of the select band of brothers who have actually been to China! I know where things went well, and where things need improving. I am now 100% certain I want a wife. I am also pretty certain I'm looking in the right country :icon_cheesygrin:.

[brett]

Time for another update. Well guys, last night I sent my tough love email. It turns out her mother is ill so that is epic bad timing.

Yes I know scammers often say there is an illness in the family but I did notice that her mother has a chronic health condition so I do believe her. I worry about this because there is no way a lady with an ill parent is going to give me the attention I would need.

My lady is not rich and her boss is driving her to an early grave. It's a basically "you need to work all the hours I tell you to because there are 100's of people who want your job" situation. It's not even a very good job. China is a harsh place and its experiment with capitalism is taking its toll on the people.

My lady tells me I didn't give her the right signals, and I tell her she didn't give me the right signals. Is it just down to our inexperience? Well I'm not totally convinced. I guess I was a little scared of making too much of a move as I was totally reliant on her out there and if I had blown it goodness knows how I would have got back to Wuhan again. Of course I am also an English gentleman and we aren't great at this kind of thing, there is a bloody good reason why most of my fellow countrymen need 10 pints of beer before seducing their woman.

I spent Sunday afternoon reading the relationship books in Waterstones. I thought I was a novice at relationships. But I now realise that I'm not. I have pretty much done everything I could to show that I loved her.

My lady has hidden her chnlove profile just as I have unhidden mine :s. What a sad story :sleepy:.

[shaun]

I'm sorry for saying this but you really do not have a clue do you.

You said, "Yes I know scammers often say there is an illness in the family but I did notice that her mother has a chronic health condition so I do believe her. I worry about this because there is no way a lady with an ill parent is going to give me the attention I would need."

You need to grow up and realize IT IS NOT ALL ABOUT YOU!!!!!!!!

[RobertBfrom aust]

Well said Shaun ,we could not have said it better ourselves , Ying and Robert .

[brett]

Well yes of course I understand that. This is a difficult situation and is far worse than I anticipated. I don't want to go into details.

But I have to face reality here. Is this lady going to be able to start a new life here and maybe have kids when her sick mother is 5000 miles away? I don't believe that she can. I was interested in moving to China, but now I know how poor salaries are I know that's just not realistic.

I know many people who have sick relatives and are who in the same situation.  It's heartbreaking. Yes my lady is great but I cannot ask her to choose between me or her family. Of course she could visit them sometimes but realistically even I cannot pay for her to jump on a plane every time someone gets sick.

[Vince G]

Brett, your thinking way to far into the future to worry about. By the time there is a marriage and then able to come to you? it will be a couple of years? Allot of things change in that amount of time. Understanding and allowing her time to pull things together if this is the woman for you will help big time in the relationship.

[shaun]

Brett,

I have tried to be an encouragement here and respect the fact that you are an adult. Just by what I am seeing here I think the one who has a lack of maturity is you.  If I were in your shoes I would apologize for not seeing the signs of her willingness to move forward. Then you might want to do a little research on relationship building and focus on what you need to do and not on what she needs to do.

I think your greatest stumbling block in this relationship is you. You appear to be a intelligent man and this is not beyond your grasp. Forget the money issue.  After 27 years of marriage and 2 daughters I can tell one undeniable fact. Females will always cost more money that you are wanting to spend. There is nothing wrong about being thrifty and it appears to me Chinese women can teach us rather than we teach them on this issue.

Bottom line is you need to move from the position of selfishness to selflessness in regard to your relationship with Ms. Wu.  You want it to improve.  Instead of it being all about you change it to being all about her and watch how she reacts.  If she is a good quality woman you'll be calling the fire department to put out the fire.

Try it and prove me wrong on this issue.  I dare you.

Shaun

[Johnboy]

Brett,

I have tried to be an encouragement here and respect the fact that you are an adult. Just by what I am seeing here I think the one who has a lack of maturity is you.  If I were in your shoes I would apologize for not seeing the signs of her willingness to move forward. Then you might want to do a little research on relationship building and focus on what you need to do and not on what she needs to do.

I think your greatest stumbling block in this relationship is you. You appear to be a intelligent man and this is not beyond your grasp. Forget the money issue.  After 27 years of marriage and 2 daughters I can tell one undeniable fact. Females will always cost more money that you are wanting to spend. There is nothing wrong about being thrifty and it appears to me Chinese women can teach us rather than we teach them on this issue.

Bottom line is you need to move from the position of selfishness to selflessness in regard to your relationship with Ms. Wu.  You want it to improve.  Instead of it being all about you change it to being all about her and watch how she reacts.  If she is a good quality woman you'll be calling the fire department to put out the fire.

Try it and prove me wrong on this issue.  I dare you.

Shaun

Awesome Shaun!  Absolutely awesome!!  When I need some advice about the beautiful Fei you will be my first port of call my friend - posthaste.....

[David E]

Good one Shaun........spot on.

Brett.....you worry me !!!

Firstly, to be a bit facetious...you dont need 10 pints of beer to seduce a woman...its called "boozers droop".........You dont ever need to seduce a woman......she will do that for you if she thinks you are the "one"

You will never persuade a woman (unless of very low quality...and for money !!) to do anything she does not want to do...........especially in the seduction department)

Wages in China should occupy about 2 of your brain cells in the grand scheme of things....you are stuck with them as the reality, you cant change them, they are not your problem. Washing veggies in the street is what they do...no problem, why is it such a big deal for you...you dont live there, they do, its their world.

If you are concerned that your lady is being used as a slave for a pittance...then send her 1200 RMB a month, she can quit her job,  and let her concentrate on learning English.

For you, this is a tiny amouny of money. Show her you care enough to free her from this drudgery.

And what did you plan for the "physical" side of your relationship when you went to China...did you expect sex, or kissing or what. You tell that you made an attempt to put your arm around her and she was uncomfortable. But you cant just lob up and get cuddly without some "foreplay"...subltle touches as you open the door for her, an "accidental" touch as you enter the lift...all that sort of stuff that is in your testosterone driven genes......the old courtship ritual...works every time.

Are you sure that it was not her that bombed this relationship ?? Are you sure that you were "man" enough to take on a Chinese Lady, who...believe me and many of the Bros here can GUARANTEE that she has an encyclopaedic knowlege about romance, love, sex and all that...You had better believe it !! maybe it was you that could not understand, interpret or manage the signals.

You obviously have some real feelings for her....be certain that you are not chucking out the baby with the bathe water.

DavidE

[Scottish_Rob]

Nice one shaun and David...I think I said all this to him in a round about way early on in this thread...:huh: