The Guys With Bad Luck

[Jimmy]

Many of the guys here have found a love right away gotten married and had some kids the American Dream so to say.
And then there are the guys that go from girl to girl to girl and for one reason or another they just can't seem to get hooked up.
And everyone else falls somewhere in between.

As we all know with the agencies there is a lot of deception put out , and we are told it is for everyones benifit and I am sure that it is as they say. But when there is money involved there is always going to be the ones looking out for only their own interest.
Writing letters for the girls that the girl doesnt even know about, that kind of stuff "Deception".
I been here a long time but havent written to but about 7 women total  and all but 3 of them were only 3 maybe 4 letters.
I have some Ideas for some ways we can make sure that we are writting to a real girl and not just a translator, But they are all real bad ideas.
So I hoping maybe some of the guys in between that have been on both sides of it might have some good answers for this. Lets face it, it happening more all the time.
What are the best ways to verify that you are really with the person you think you are? If you don't undestand the question somebody will reask here in a couple posts better than me so stick around.

[Irishman]

Jimmy, as one of the guys that seems to have fallen in somewhere in between here's my (euro) 2c.

I am on chnlove about 1.5 years now. i think I've written to about 10 girls approximately. Only one of them was an obvious fraudster - P630005, it was virtual porn writing until i suggesting going there and meeting her (she got sick and couldn't write, then she was very busy in work and couldn't write..and hasn't written in months!!)....

i think the scammers are less than the real ladies, but the b/s rate of emf's is high.

How to judge if its real?..ask for candid snaps, ask for qq or msn details, ask for skype/qq/msn webcam (skype is the only one that will often work) .
If she wont send you a candid photo then in my opinion she is not real, Chinese girls take pics all the time of each other, anyone that claims different hasn't ever dated a modern Chinese girl.

She wil likely be embarrassed about her English, you need to reasure her, if needed do it at the agency with the translator there.
Do not go to China to marry a girl you haven't met or seen or talked to before unless you have balls the size of T-Rex and get lucky that shes a fox!!

[Brian Mc]

Jimmy, as one of the guys that seems to have fallen in somewhere in between here's my (euro) 2c.

I am on chnlove about 1.5 years now. i think I've written to about 10 girls approximately. Only one of them was an obvious fraudster - P630005, it was virtual porn writing until i suggesting going there and meeting her (she got sick and couldn't write, then she was very busy in work and couldn't write..and hasn't written in months!!)....

i think the scammers are less than the real ladies, but the b/s rate of emf's is high.

How to judge if its real?..ask for candid snaps, ask for qq or msn details, ask for skype/qq/msn webcam (skype is the only one that will often work) .
If she wont send you a candid photo then in my opinion she is not real, Chinese girls take pics all the time of each other, anyone that claims different hasn't ever dated a modern Chinese girl.

She wil likely be embarrassed about her English, you need to reasure her, if needed do it at the agency with the translator there.
Do not go to China to marry a girl you haven't met or seen or talked to before unless you have balls the size of T-Rex and get lucky that shes a fox!!

Greetings Brothers,

Yes i also have noticed that lately we are seeing a lot more doom than success in the posts.  Longterm relationships ending, newer ones seem to be getting harder to establish etc.

As you all know Zhen and I are the exception to virtually all the guidlines we have here.  The first candid picture i ever had of Zhen was taken by me with my own camera.  The pics she attached with her letters were professional pics but without the chnlove logo.  However we did exchange all contact info very early in our relationship and also webcams through skype and her agency.

I am really lucky in that Zhen's agency is truly one of the great ones, that truly cares about the ladies the work with.  They have helped both Zhen and me out many times with things that are technically not part of the deal.  Also as those who have read my posts know our face to face meeting was a complete transition from our letters to real life.  The "chemistry" that is so elusive apparently was there in huge buckets and we were a done deal instantly.

It truly saddens me now when I read of so many of the brothers and their ladies having so much difficulty when Zhen and I had it so easy.  I wonder sometimes if we are not getting too caught up in the negative and it is tainting how we are looking at things.

When I started on chnlove I wrote to four at once and then another added herself to the mix.  The first four I let go within a week and concentrated on the fifth, but she could not get past my divorce situation and that one ended. So from Zhens first letter on July 17 there were five ladies I wrote to plus Zhen.  Obviously there has been no one since I replied to Zhen.  We clicked deeply and completely so fast it was unbelievable.  We have discussed virtually every subject that should be important to a couple from where to live to do we want more kids to work etc etc.  We are in complete agreement on everything.  To say that we have each found our soul mate is an understatement of epic proportions.  Its more like I have found the female side of myself.

So yes all the advice given about getting natural pics webcams QQ emails etc is all valid, I think that perhaps there is also everyones perceptions as well.  It seems many of the brothers are quick to call scam or BS or doubt at the slightest thing.  Are we becoming paranoid here?  Even for me and Zhen both in letters, webcam and in person, there have been things said or done that made little or no sense to the other.  The difference I see is that we took the time and the patience and the TRUST, to clarify and work out exactly what the issue was.  Guess what guys every single instance was either poor translation, poor perception, or just plain old poor choice of words.

So for me I would suggest when you look through the profiles and find that lady that makes your head swim and your heart race, put all your doubt and negativity in a box and lock it in the basement.  Go at things with an open mind and a willingness to trust.  Be positive and let your feelings show in your letters.  If you hold back it shows.  If you think a dozen emfs is too soon to say I love you or hear it from her is too soon, then I suggest you ananlyze again.  It worked for Zhen and I.  Perhaps from our western jaded cynical point of view that is too soon but for the ladies it seems they are prepared to commit much faster and more deeply than we are.  Perhaps our perspective is so tainted by the way western women deal with us that we are having difficulty seeing the beauty and the love that these wonderful ladies offer to us and we look for reasons to doubt.  Maybe we need to just open up or hearts and our minds to see what is right in front of our eyes.

The only true way to know if you are speaking with the one you think you are is face to face.  Even webcam can be deceiving if there is a translator involved but at least you get a true look at the lady you are talking to.  I think the big issue right now is trust.  We always here of the failed ones or the possiblle scam ones but rarely now do we here of the ones who are happily writing to their ladies and developing a deep and lasting relationship.  It seems that most of the news we are seeing on the forums is failure or doubt or mistrust.  We need more happy stories, or even just progressing well stories, hell even funny or weird stories.

Anyway this as always is my long winded take on things and yes I am biased because Zhen and I will be together in only two more days when I move my life to China to be with her.  So guys be positive and try to trust before you suspect, use the 24 hour rule and the different culture different customs rule ( Thanks Maxx for those), and go find that one woman in the world that you cannot live without.  I have and many others have so you can too, all it takes is faith and trust.

Regards,

Zhen and Brian,
Together at last forever.

[Danny]

So for me I would suggest when you look through the profiles and find that lady that makes your head swim and your heart race, put all your doubt and negativity in a box and lock it in the basement.  

I don't know if I am too influenced by David E's posts, but with all respect, Brian, I think part of the problem we have is that people do exactly this. I know it is possible to fall in love with a profile, but the question is it a sensible thing to do? I would say no. If one of my dear friends were to fall in love with a profile, I would say to them, enjoy the feeling, but don't let your feelings run away with you. Think about what's really going on.

Setting aside this matter, I agree with a lot of what you have written. The fact of the matter is that for most people, most relationships you commence while you are single will fail for one reason or another. However knowledge of this fact is not much help, because you do not know in advance which one is going to work out. So really, when you commence a relationship you need to start with the thought that it might well be the one that works out. You need to treat each serious relationship as though it might work out.

I think it is important to take care about how you verify that the person you are writing to is serious about the relationship, so you don't unnecessarily offend them by the way you ask these things.

As an aside, I have two suggestions:

1. I think a woman who is serious about you, will find the time to write to you. If she doesn't write regularly, and warmly to you, then I suggest that you find someone else.

2. After a month of writing emails you should begin using a webcam, at least once a week. There are internet cafes everywhere in China. If she doesn't have a computer with internet access, she will have a friend or family member who has one. If she can't get access to a computer, I would wonder what's wrong with her, and I would find someone else.

This may sound harsh, but it's a whole lot easier to end something early on, that after months or even years of writing and waiting.

Life is short. People who are ready to settle down don't need years and years to work out whether you're the right one. A lot of the joy of relationships is getting to know each other.  

Okay that's my two cents.

[Scottish_Rob]

I totally agree...NOW Danny:blush:

[RobertBfrom aust]

All well said as usual Brian the Brain , the note that you said about misinterpreting words can be so true as there are sometimes many words that will come up in the Chinese language against an English word , or for a number of English words there is no Chinese one ,  I and Ying always , from the very start use the simple KISS method [ Keep It Simple Stupid ]
 I feel that when one starts rabbiting on for 4000 letters in an EMF ,  by the time the recipient gets to the end probably 60 percent of the content and meaning has been lost , these ladies are busy 7 days a week , and 2000 letters every 2 or 3 days seems more than adequate , another old saying , slowly , slowly catch the monkey , or in this case the girl , regards Ying and Robert .

[Willy The Londoner]

How blatant is the EMF abuse system.  Very much so I would say.

I have experienced it with the Hand in hand agency in Zhuhai but even more blatantly in Zhongshan.   Oh yes the lady in Zhongshan exists.   But whilst on an extended two week visit to the UK I decided to send a few EMFs to my lady back here. Mainly because i was held up and wanted to make sure that she was aware.  In the two weeks I sent and received replies to 6 emfs.   In between emfs we still spoke every day by phone even though her English is poor.  Between her pigeon English AND my pigeon Chinese we get by.

Three emfs she was never contacted over - the translator just made up a story.  In fact of the others they only ever telephoned the important points concerning my return time.  I suspected this because of the use of words snd phrases would not have been her choice.   As far as she was aware I had not sent any lovey dovey stuff.

I knew the words i received were not hers but if I had never met her then how would I have known.

Willy

[Danny]

How blatant is the EMF abuse system.  Very much so I would say.

Willy

I am inclined to agree with that.

If I had to do this all again from scratch. I cannot imagine choosing anyone that has no English.

At least not until my Mandarin has improved a whole lot, and that's hard work.

You just have to be able to go direct.

There are some fine translators. But there are some shockers too.

[brett]

Well I am back from China. I think my take home message for my brothers is that if any woman under 40 doesn't want to QQ with you then forget her. In China anyone in this age group has mobiles and QQ is wildly popular (it works on a mobile, you even get a cute little screen full of emoticons).

[Proteus]

Nice to meet you Jimmy. Your question is the same question I think of and worry about most too. The failure to produce a positive answer to this question by my own effort leads to my resignation from the agency I once worked for. During my one year service there I was occasionally compelled into something dishonest and tricky too. Among the 300+ men I ever contacted I believe I owe apologies to Mr. E. L. from Toronto, Mr. J. K. from Wellington, Mr. R. B. from Virginia and two other gentlemen, one from Britain, the other from Canada, whose initials I forget. On the other hand I feel a little relieved to have distinguished and persuaded some ladies against insincere proposals for meeting and even request for money from some men.

It's hard for me to estimate chnlove's motive to supervise the authenticity of EMFs. Usually they act according to your complaints. From its foundation till now, chnlove has closed agencies for two reasons, failing to fulfill quotas of credits and starting competing business with it. Chnlove has not, as far as I know, publicly admitted or punished translators or agencies for frauds in EMFs. But in private our agency has been denied submittion of new ladies' profiles and some translators' account has been closed for several days as a kind of punishment.

To you, as an individual, I have no good ideas as to distinguish real letters. Luck is so far all that you can rely on. But for all of you, I do have an idea. It cannot be realised by single effort but needs persistent coperation and unity.

The existence of scam letters comes mainly from the profit from credits. Chnlove charges 5 or 6 dollars for one EMF and an agency gets about 11 HK dollars from it and a translator some from this 11. As long as the marginal revenue of making an EMF is higher than the marginal cost, they have a profit to make. Since the revenue is fixed, the more they can cut the marginal cost, the more profit they make. The major way to cut cost is to neglect translation of any letters and start writing back immediately after reading the coming letter. This is why one of my former colleagues has fulfilled 1500+ credits this September.

Now I have this proposal. I suggest you, all of you here and anyone you know who is in use of chnlove service, to start a campaign to have chnlove make a new rule which is to attach translated versions of your letters and original versions of ladies letters in every EMFs they send back.

The logic lies here. When they are compelled to do translation of every letter, the marginal cost of producing an EMF would be much higher than without translations because the labour of making an EMF triples with a scam letter ( in which they have to make two translations and one chinese reply ) and doubles with a real one ( in which they are spared the labour of making the reply ), therefore there's much less and even no profit in making scam letters but more profit in translating real ones. When the incentive disappears, so does the action.  

This proposal may be a little difficult to realise and here I have an alternative one which still needs a united campaign to get come true.

Chnlove has started a system with the intention to inform ladies when they get EMFs. It works like this, when a lady join chnlove site, she shows her cell phone number and chnlove gives her a confirming code, after confirming it her profile will be accepted and showed. Whenever an EMF comes to her, there is a button at the bottom of the letter, when the translator clicks it, a text message is sent to her cellphone and she knows she receives a letter. Very good idea but very poorly carried out, most translators in our agency choose not to click the button. If you can make this text message come to them directly, at least you can make sure your letter is reaching the person you think she is.

So far for today, have a good weekend.

[maxx]

Proteus Both very good suggestions.

[Arnold]

Guy's , here is why Qing an I had no problems with EMF's ever .
1st : We did have an HONEST translator to start with .
2nd : When Qing signed up with the Agency in GaungZHou ( while she is from Shanghai  ) SHE ask for a E-Mail address from the Agency to receive my Letter's .
3rd: She also ask them ... NOT to translate them and send them directly as they come to Her ( in English ) . This was of course possible , because Qing know's English enough to understand them .
4th : She write's her reply  in Chinese back to our Translator , who now has to translate that and then sent it to me . In other word's I pay'd for one translation twice . I did not mind this , as it all went very well .
5th : After four month's of EMF's , our translator ... yes she did ... told us to go with Yahoo Messenger instead to safe the Money for the EMF's . She even offered to translate our E-Mail's for us , if we ever needed to do that ... for FREE . I did not except this offer though , because ... I did not want her to get into trouble  with the Agency she worked for .
6th : Qing was a Honest Lady .
7th : All this worked out so well , due to one thing .... that is , she knows English to communicate . Now , if any of you ... want to have a better chance at succeeding , pick a Lady that know's English and not just say she does .
8th : Last , Qing and I never used Webcam , we were communicating so well ... we never needed it or even thought of it either . We did have Phone talk betweens us , but not every day ... maybe twice a month . Letter's , no more than three a week . Sometimes even less .
Writing everyday is not necessary if you ask me and it is a big waste of Money for EMF's ! All you tell them ... here we have a Sucker on Board and yes they will use that chance to rob you blind .

Well , this is how We found , had help of an honest translator , communicated with each other ... and you all know the rest .

[shaun]

Proteus, excellent idea.  I have asked chnlove and the agency for the translations and all they ever give is the English translations.

I am trying to submit an idea to chnlove that I think would solve many of the issues. I am waiting for a reply, if they accept and purchase my idea then I will tell everyone about it.

Shaun

[Hajo]

6th : Qing was a Honest Lady .

Hmmm Arnold, does it mean Qing is not honest anymore?

haha, couldn't stand it.

[Willy The Londoner]

Well I am back from China. I think my take home message for my brothers is that if any woman under 40 doesn't want to QQ with you then forget her. In China anyone in this age group has mobiles and QQ is wildly popular (it works on a mobile, you even get a cute little screen full of emoticons).

A Cute liitle screen?  QQ there are times when I would ban them completely.  Some women get so engrossed with them that are QQing in bed.   Well i suppose it gives them something to do until Viagra takes its course!!!!  But it is the ones who QQ during, that really piss me off.

Willy