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Offline maxx

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attitude
« on: October 24, 2009, 01:58:51 am »
I set here most nights in front of my keyboard.A bottle of Dr Pepper on my right a half a pack of Marlboro on my left.I read your stories of woe.Your tales of joy.

Most of the time I wonder what the hell are you guys thinking.I also wonder why some of you are trying to have a Chinese wife.You haven't dealt with your own personal issues yet.You can't get outside of your own heads.And see the world.From a different view.

You guys write to these ladies for months on end.You try to get web cam chats real photos.By a certain number of letters.And when it doesn't work out.The way you think it should.Then it is all bad the lady is bad the agency is bad the translation is bad.

OK so we screwed this up.Like the Human race always does.We are over thinking this over analyzing this.We read to much into the letters.Some of you way to much.

Back when I went on this little journey.Somebody posted on the Chnlove forum.Hey if you are not ready to go on a vacation to Asia.Or move to Asia.Why are you writing to a Asian woman.When I did all of this.The unwritten rule was if you weren't ready to travel within a couple of months.Then why be here? Your wasting your time and money and  your wasting the ladies time.

Another unwritten rule at the time was if you haven't ben outside your own country before.You need to travel to a different country.Preferable a Asian country since were talking about Asian women here.And see how they work and live.

Get out of the tourist areas.Go to the village.The hamlets.You will have a better Idea.How your lady thinks.How the customs and culture work in a relationship.

Take a look around this forum.Pay attention to the members.Who have traveled to Asia.Who weren't looking for a wife.At the time.But were either working.or were just there to have a good time.These people will be your best source for information.

David 50, Paul Todd, Ming Zhi, Jim B,David E,Chong,Willy,Proteous Chinese Knot,and myself.We didn't gather are information from the internet.We Lived it.And you all need to live it.Before you bring somebody else into the picture.

The reason there is a high failure rate.On the first trip.Is because you guys.Are putting to much stock into the letters.You are completely blown away by the situation.Once you arrive in China.You are dragging your baggage from a previous relationship.into the new relationship.You expect your new Chinese girlfriend to talk act walk eat.Like a women from your own country.You expect the woman to have the same morals and beliefs that you were raised with.Well it probably isn't going to happen

The women Didn't believe that you would actually show up after writing for so long.They thought it was going to be fun just to talk to a foreigner.She thought it was going to be like she thought and it wasn't.

How to have better odds of meeting the women of your dreams in China.

#1 make a trip to Asia.See what it's about.Learn a little history and culture.No girlfriends allowed.To much distraction.

# 2 Writing letters. I would think no more then 4 months.Before you make the trip.To meet the women.

# 3 eyes open head up.At all times.

# 4 letters web cams web chats are all good tools.But they are what they are.A tool they should be treated as such.

# 5 back up plan.Always have a backup plan.Name address telephone # of the agency.In the town you will be visiting.

# 6  Your attitude has got to be in the right place when you start writing the letters.When you step of the plane.When your out on the town.By yourself or with the woman you have ben writing to.You have to go at this with the attitude.Win or loose you gave it your best shot.And had a hell of a good time on vacation.

Nothing in life is written in stone people change there thoughts change.There is no 100% fool proof way to do this.We all stumble and fall.How you handle yourself after the fall or stumble.Will determine how this all turns out in the end.

Maxx

brett

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RE: attitude
« Reply #1 on: October 24, 2009, 03:48:11 am »
Wow, a wonderful post maxx. More essential rules for the brothers. Now I have been to China to meet a lady, I understand.

Yes I wonder why people want a Chinese wife if they haven't been to Asia, or maybe not even left their own country. I was surprised how different central China was to other countries. It's nothing like Japan. It's not even much like Hong Kong.

On the plane home from Beijing there were many British tourists on escorted tours who had thought they had seen China. Sure, they'd seen the Great Wall, the Terracotta guys, maybe they'd been to a food banquet or two. But had they ventured inside a Chinese supermarket in search of pot noodles and beer? Or wandered around the back streets of Wuhan alone? Or had to get from the airport to their hotel without getting ripped off? I also travelled to Hong Kong and Japan alone. While the escorted tours of Japan looked at Tokyo's shrines and ate sushi, I walked around the back streets of suburban Kawasaki, just looking at how ordinary folk lived their lives.

I think acquiring a Chinese wife because you can't find a woman in your own country is a dangerous thing to do. Perhaps that applies to me, although I've never looked for a woman in this country. I have always known my wife would be foreign. I thought my soul mate would be in Japan. But it turns out she was in China. This was my 4th visit to Asia in as many years. If I could find a good job out there and could crack the confoundingly difficult languages, or I was older and could semi-retire then I would move out there permanently. As it is, every time I visit Asia a little bit of myself stays behind there.

Acquiring a Chinese wife is ruinously expensive for an average Joe. Guys, this is not a cheap option at all.

There are also vast cultural differences to the West. And your problems are compounded if you go for a lady who doesn't speak much English. Learning Mandarin is incredibly difficult, hanzi equally so. On top of that there are many local dialects (Yichang even has it's own dialect, just for Yichang!).

So why do we do it? Chinese women are exceptionally beautiful. I have seen some of the most beautiful women in the world while I was in Yichang. Most of them are slim, with flawless complexions. They have beautiful manners. They are also confident, and will defend you in a problematic situation. But on the other hand, they are women. They change their mind. They cheat just as much as men. They spend your money, and order you around. They have wildly inflated expectations of you. And they do have a nasty habit of dropping unexpected bombshells.

My lady hasn't spoken much about other men who wrote to her. But I gather there were a lot of timewasters and insincere men. Guys - if you think the lady you are writing to is the one for you, then go and see her as soon as you can. Until you make that visit you honestly don't mean that much to her.

Don't read too much into what a translator writes in an EMF. Few Chinese can write good English, and if they could do you seriously think they would be working for a little marriage agency in a back street of Guangzhou? Anyone with decent English skills will work their ass off trying to secure a job in government or maybe with a Western company. Hell - they spent $200 billion on building the Three Gorges Dam, and yet the English signage there is complete nonsense. Sometimes the agency will only be able to contact the lady by phone, in which case the translator will only be able to scribble down what your lady's response is. Maybe your lady is busy and you haven't visited her yet, so you could forgive her for just telling the translator to write some mushy stuff.

Of course it works both ways. Yes there are rogue agencies and ladies. China is a tough place to live. Very tough. Competition for jobs from board level to shoe shiner is intense. It's not a particularly cheap place to live. If you find a way to make easy money from a Westerner, well you're going to take that opportunity aren't you? The same happens to Western businessmen who think China is a land of opportunity, a way to cut costs with cheap labour. The Chinese didn't become the most populous people on the planet by sitting back and letting people walk all over them.

:fi_lone_ranger:
« Last Edit: October 24, 2009, 03:49:45 am by brett »

Offline Hajo

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RE: attitude
« Reply #2 on: October 24, 2009, 12:47:52 pm »
Maxx,

thank you for those honest words. I had kind of same thoughts many times. As those who have read my story know, I found my wife in April this year and we got married in August and she moved with me to Denmark two weeks later. That was only possible because I respected many of the rules Maxx is talking about. And I respected the thinking of my wife. Not saying she is ruling over me. We decide things together and discuss the different issues.

Of course I was interested in talking to my wife on the phone as soon as possible. But I did not tell her that she had to do it. I told her we would talk when she was ready. I told her how everything was; I gave her my email, QQ ID and phone number. She could decide when and how fast to proceed. It is about trust, gentlemen! You do not trust the ladies, but you want them to trust you. You have to remember; their husbands have mistreated many of these ladies.

As Maxx writes, many of you compare the Chinese ladies with western women, as we know them. It won't work if you do! I know, that there are scammers out there. But many of those Chinese ladies are real, but they are very shy.

I am not saying, I understand the Chinese people fully. But I have been interested in China for about 30 years, I have read a lot about the country. My knowledge helped me a little, but I still have to learn a lot. China is not the same as the western countries. The ladies don't think the same way as the ladies in the west do. For example, holding hands in public is out of the question for my wife, even though we are married. That is the way they were brought up.

There are many other issues, too. Many of you interpret the letters from the ladies, like they have written every word by them self. Of course many of them did, BUT in CHINESE!! The letter you receive is an interpretation of the translator. After 2 month communicating through the agency, my wife and I communicated directly. We used Internet software for the translations. There had been a lot of misunderstandings because of many possible meanings. The translators in the agencies have some experience with English, but they are not perfect. Those of you who speak another language than your native language should understand how difficult it could be to communicate with somebody in that language. Then imagine you have to communicate in written language that is even more difficult because you do not see the reaction of the people when they read it. You cannot correct misunderstandings. Maybe you have a meaning of what you want to say, but it is not sure that you formulate it right. I have been living in another country for 21 years. Even though I am very good at the Danish language, I still make mistakes due to the nuances in the language.

Many of you expect to have little communications with your ladies when you meet. My wife knew about 20 English words when we met! Those who have written they used a communicator when they met the first time know also the frustration that has to be handled. You are not the only ones who are frustrated; the lady you are going to meet will be frustrated too! Some of the ladies are aware of it and that is why they do not want to communicate on the phone. "Face" or the fear of making mistakes has a huge meaning to those ladies! Do your self a favour and prepare yourself and the lady that there will be difficulties in communication when you meet.

Well, I won’t write a book here. The conclusion is, that this process is not easy and takes a lot of understanding. Even so my wife and me got married and moved together after a short while, it does not mean everything is a dance on roses. There are many challenges in the everyday live. For example, read the story from Maxx as he was in the Chinese restaurant and the waiter told his wife that Maxx would sell her as a slave. (he he, Maxx I love that story). If you expect to get married to a Chinese lady, take her home to your country and live in the same way as you would with a lady from your country. Then you should think twice!

When you bring this lady to your country, you have a huge responsibility. You cannot just send her home again.

My 2c on this issue.
爱你的人如果没有按你所希望的方式来爱你,那并不代表他们没有全心全意地爱你。
Just because someone doesn't love you the way you want them to, doesn't mean they don't love you with all they have.

Offline Hans

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RE: attitude
« Reply #3 on: October 24, 2009, 05:04:38 pm »
Good post, Maxx.

abigbutt, I think it must be incredibly difficult going to China to meet a woman with whom you have been communicating for months and NOT have any expectations! Is that even possible? You must at least have a vision in your head what that first meeting will be like and hopes deep inside what the experience together with her will be like... right?

I usually expect the worst and hope for the best when doing big things in my life so I have absolutely no idea what will happen when I (hopefully) arrive in China in December. But of course I hope that all the energy I money I have put into this will not be in vain. I also think it would be very difficult for me to have a back up plan related to the agency if it turns out the lady and I simply does not fit. I would most likely be too disappointed and empty.

Well, no matter what it will be an adventure. The friends and co workers I've talked to would never do this. At least we guys have some guts. :icon_cool: It's a gamble but then life is a gamble in so many ways.

Scottish_Rob

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RE: attitude
« Reply #4 on: October 24, 2009, 05:17:25 pm »
Maxx what you have posted here is pure 'Gold'.  

Can you possibly answer a question for me please?  

"How many times have you been to china, and for how long were you in contact with your 'now' wife...?"  

The reason I ask is because, you seem to know a real lot about Chinese ladies.  You come over really 'experienced' about their culture.  Please don't take this the wrong way, I am just wondering.

As you know I am going over to start my new life in 3 weeks time, and I have a few of your essential rules embedded into my brain R1, R2 (lol)  The one that I WILL now take with me is your last point
'You have to go at this with the attitude. Win or lose you gave it your best shot. And had a hell of a good time on vacation.'

Thanks for your insight...Let's hope your right !!!

David5o

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RE: attitude
« Reply #5 on: October 24, 2009, 05:23:11 pm »
Hans,


Yes life is a gamble, in a lot of respects. Which is why you should not throw away the chance/idea of using the agency if things didn't work out for you While in China. The Adventure will be that much better when you have a pretty lady showing you the best places to go and see!! Always think positive no matter how many doors close, because as they close, another one opens for you. ....and it maybe that,  that door that opens for you, is a new lady just perfect for you and from the same agency!! ....just make sure she has at least an understanding of English, can't tell you how much of a difference that will make to you!!

Anyway, i hope there won't be any need for such a back-up plan for you. Best of luck on your trip Hans, go and enjoy yourself to the full......

David.....
« Last Edit: October 24, 2009, 08:07:04 pm by David5o »

Offline Josh Markley

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RE: attitude
« Reply #6 on: October 24, 2009, 07:19:44 pm »
I don't even know how to respond to this yet.  But you guys is a wide range of people.  I didnt know this forum was for only people who lived and worked in china.  And really its none of anyones business why i want to marry a chinese girl.  Not everyone can live and work in china so does this exclude us from being happy?  I don't think so.
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Offline maxx

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RE: attitude
« Reply #7 on: October 24, 2009, 08:47:05 pm »
Josh please reread my post again.I think you misunderstood.I don't live or work in China.Some of the other members I mention do not live in China or work in Asia.At the present time.What I posted was that it should be a requirment.For the man who is thinking about marring a woman from asia.He Should take a vacation to Asia.Without a women being envolved.To have a look around learn some history culture.Get out of the tourist areas.See how the people really work and live.

Thiere is to good reason why you should go.And not have a women accompany you.The women is going to limit your exsposure to the real China.She is only going to want  you to see the good things.Second thing is that you will be paying more attention to the women then what is going on around you.

No Josh It isn't none of my buissness why you want to marry a Chinese women.That is a question you are going to have to really ask yourself.It is alot more difficult then most people think it is.With culture custom issues.communication.THe stereotyping that you get from some people.When you have a asian wife.Both in your country and her country.

Offline maxx

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RE: attitude
« Reply #8 on: October 24, 2009, 09:28:08 pm »
Rob No worries we are here to help each other.No offence was taken by me. I have ben to China 7 times.5 times on my own to visit my wife. 2 times with my wife an son.We stay usually about 14 to 17 days each trip.

I have also ben to Thailand Japan and Taiwan one time.And Hong Kong about 14 times.In Hong Kong all I was doing was just passing threw on the way to the mainland.I have stayed overnight one time in Hong Kong.And it was raining bad so I didn't get to see much

I wrote  EMF to my wife for 2 months.That was five days a week.No web cam,no phone calls.I was already planning a trip to Asia.When we started writing to each other.

Rob allot of it has to do with what kind of attitude you have when you start on this.If your looking for something bad.Your going to find something bad.And usually there is nothing I can say or anybody else can say to make you change your mind on how bad it is or was.That is just human nature.If you are looking for something good there is a good possibility you will find something good.It may not be what you expected.But you can usually draw some good from it.

In my own opinion China is one of the places that must be visited.At least once in your life.The history the culture the people are just mind blowing.Brett wrote something I thought was funny the other day.(Brett said that he has ben to Hong Kong many times.But when he got to the mainland he was blown away)The reason I thought that is was funny because.I was the same way the first time I went to the mainland.It just totally blew my mind.And like Brett I had already made trips to other Asian countries.

My wife and her family are good teachers.And I think I'm a good listener.We eat and breath China everyday at my house it really helps allot.As I'm writing this my wife is watching a Chinese movie and eating rice with fish and peppers.If there is any left.I will eat some of the peppers while I'm making myself something to eat

Offline Josh Markley

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RE: attitude
« Reply #9 on: October 24, 2009, 09:46:02 pm »
Thanx Maxx,

   Thanks for clearing that up.  Now that i understand i agree.  Since I have vacationed in china with a woman I agree i missed out of the best things china had to offer me.  At the same time i learned alot about chinese women.  I went over with an open mind and respected everything as it came.  Now I know how to be when it comes time for marriage.   Next trip I may go to meet a woman but i will take time for myself so I can explore where I am at.  Sorry Maxx
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Scottish_Rob

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RE: attitude
« Reply #10 on: October 24, 2009, 11:50:10 pm »
Maxx...Thank you brother, I was interested to know this information because of what I had mentioned in my post...

That is almost more times in China than I have had girlfriends...Almost:huh: (hehe I won't say LOVERS because I am a man of the world hehe):icon_cheesygrin::icon_cheesygrin:  Anyway I now know thank you...Now go and eat the peppers lol:icon_cheesygrin::icon_cheesygrin:
« Last Edit: October 24, 2009, 11:51:33 pm by Scottish_Rob »

Offline Willy The Londoner

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RE: attitude
« Reply #11 on: October 25, 2009, 12:03:20 am »
A cracking post Maxx

It has even brought Ted out of retirement!!!

Whilst I am sitting at my keyboard I have no Marlboro or a DR Pepper what I have is a view looking out over Zhongshan and I have a pot of green tea on one side and a plate of cold chicken feet on the other!!

Willy

P.S. And I have twentyfive shirts in thee wardrobe and each have been washed, ironed and packed away with every button done up like a shop display!!!
Willy The Lpndoner

Now in my 12th year living here,

Offline Danny

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RE: attitude
« Reply #12 on: October 25, 2009, 02:05:22 am »
I love to hear what Maxx writes. I always have. It always has an edge.

I don't know what the future holds for me, so I don't presume to know anything much, or suggest anyone to do what I've done, or do as I say. I have known well two women China, one from Zhuhai and one from Wuhan.

It was hard from the first day with the women I loved, who lives in Zhuhai. But it is just so easy with the woman I love, who lives in Wuhan. She sends me songs and poetry and love letters all the time. I get a stream of text messages through the day, emails, web cam and telephone conversations whenever I wish. Her family love me. Each day I talk happily with her parents and her brother has told my darling that he is coming across from Japan for our wedding in February. I am just in heaven at the moment.

When I compare the two relationships I realise that in both cases, I only played my part in them. They were not something I created out of nothing.

Sometimes when you think about all the advice you think that it is like a problem that if only you try hard enough you can work out. But that's not it. I don't think anyone would disagree with this. But it is easy to slip into this way of thinking. I've done it myself.

I heard someone say once, that a relationship is controlled by the person who cares least about it. If the person you love doesn't care about the relationship, whatever you say or do, isn't going to make the least bit of difference in the outcome.

On the other hand, if you both care about each other, then it's something else entirely. If you find someone who loves and cares about you, then you need to know that it doesn't come along every day, and it's the most precious thing you will ever receive.

Offline David E

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RE: attitude
« Reply #13 on: October 25, 2009, 02:38:47 am »
Quote from: 'Danny' pid='20969' dateline='1256450722'


I heard someone say once, that a relationship is controlled by the person who cares least about it. If the person you love doesn't care about the relationship, whatever you say or do, isn't going to make the least bit of difference in the outcome.



Danny

Brilliant....words of wisdom and truth indeed

DavidE

brett

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RE: attitude
« Reply #14 on: October 25, 2009, 04:12:12 am »
Yes maxx I thought it was hilarious that I spent 2 weeks in Hong Kong thinking I've visited China. And yet I get to Wuhan it's like I'm visiting somewhere entirely different. This may have a lot to do with the Cantonese being different to their central China cousins - I guess I won't determine this until I visit somewhere like Guangzhou. The cultural revolution on the mainland has also played a big role - there are far fewer temples and churches on the mainland, the people seem less superstitious and Chinese modern culture has a bit of catching up to do compared to Japan, Taiwan and other countries in the region.

I am still figuring out Chinese women. Well I expect that will take many years. But I find it curious that my lady is reluctant to discuss personal matters, and will ask me about important stuff at completely random times (like asking about having children on QQ this morning). It's nothing to do with shyness though as she is a very confident young lady and had no problem ordering me or anyone else around.