Chinese Salaries

[David E]

John

No offence taken, I hope we all can feel free to comment on any post without any such worries.

We all have views and opinions and it is up to us as individuals to sift out what we believe fits our own situations.

For me, I dont think I want to have a Pre-nup...it does not sit well with my view of marriage. But I surely concede that some others may have different ideas.

It seems that you are finding the same "minefields" that most of us do in your quest...the Translator "fluff", the difficulty to get to know exactly "who" is this lovely to whom you write. I guess there is no easy answer...just persevere and over time things will become clearer, especially if you can get on to QQ or some such face to face situation.

Before I found this Forum I dived in the deep end and went to China several times to meet Ladies with whom I had corresponded...with very sad results !! Now I am better prepared to do it again, having followed all the good advice I have read from many Bros who have been through the process !! But I concede that there is no guarantee, however good the preparation...because I still am convinced that only when you can experience the personal "chemistry" between each other can you eventually fall in love. I also know that others here have a different view to me on this and some have even proved me wrong and fallen in love at long range...and it worked for them. ...vive la difference !!!

Nevertheless, it is a journey filled with pleasant anticipation, because from this Forum, you can easily see that when you succeed..you have won a prize beyond price

Chong

Thanks for the information about pre-nups.

I think you can see that the example you quote is somewhat bizarre....they never actually lived together, thus in the eyes of the Law did not quite have a "marriage", from which to trigger any joint property settlement. As the Judge rightly pointed out, the Law makes no moral judgement...only applies the Law as it is written. The guy was morally bankrupt, but the Law could not allow her a share of the assets.

Had they lived together for any time however...it could have been a different story.

I think that there is no right or wrong in how any of us want to deal with the property/asset situation, we must all do whatever we feel suits our own situation, financially and emotionally.

What i was only trying to point out is that a pre-nup should never be used as a mechanism to avoid any financial committment in a marriage to a Foreign lady on the basis of "what the hell, if it goes wrong, she cant get my money"...because it may not work that way in the final crunch !!!

DavidE

[Chong]

To further David's point about financial committment ... I also believe that a pre-nup is to the lady's advantage also. There can be a clause inserted to guarantee her $$$ for spousal/child support in case the relationship doesn't work out. A pre-nup also forces the man to list all his personal assets for his wife's viewing consideration. Though others may disagree, I believe that a pre-nup actually enhances a relationship regarding trust. All it is ... is a future financial planning conversation between two mature adults/spouses. I'm also taking out a term life insurance policy to protect my wife's future care in case something happens to me.

Here in Southern China, ladies using "Auntie" personal match-makers are taught in advance that if they marry a foreigner ... expect to sign a pre-nup.

[ron]

Words well said David I have been married twice and lost a lot in both divorces.Each time I have pretty much started fresh.Mysel I still would not do a pre nup.If I was worried about losing anything I had better stay single and play the field .Mariage is about Faith you either have it when you decide the woman is for you or you dont.When I marry I believe in giving my everything heart soul and yes belongings.I f the lady I choose to marry decides to come to my country she has given her every thing up to be with me.Her belongings her family her heart and soul as well.That is how I look at it.What is mine will be hers .Good posts I am enjoying the reading and the answers as well.A very good place to learn.
   Ron

[Chong]

Had they lived together for any time however...it could have been a different story.

It's a moot point, but the article did say that they lived together for 58 days. David ... I agree with your views on this subject ... to each their own.

I wonder if the pre-nup laws are different in Australia as oppose to Canada ... or any other countries for that matter. Any thoughts ?? I was advised to have a pre-nup signed in China and again upon landing in Canada.

[David E]

Australia has some of the most rigid Family Laws in the World and they are ruthlessly applied...as any of the other Aussies here will tell you !!

The whole question about pre-nups in Aus is a very vexed issue. Broadly speaking, they are of zero value unless the partners bring more or less equal assets into the Marriage.

They also will have no legal weight if there are children resulting from the marriage.

If I might comment on the case of the Canadian man and the Chinese woman that you mentioned, the 58 days co-habitation would be viewed in Aus as a leagal "short" marriage and she would certainyl got some form of compensation, even for this short time.

But the Woman was not well served by her Legal advisers, as her case was at best flimsy, and at worst unsafe.

If I was to advise her, it would be to ignore the financial settlement as part of the divorce process and seek restitiution in a Civil Suit against him...this would be more likely to succeed on the basis of personal hurt, loss of expectation and even could be considered under the Ancient Statute of "Breach of Promise", which is still legitimate in any Court operating under the British Judicial system....which includes Canada.

I am unsure of the American system, so maybe some American Bros can comment here.

Truly guys, it is an important question we all need to address in our own way, because the consequences of not understanding the way this can all play out are extreme for mature guys who are "starting again"

Both Ron and Chong have different views about it, and they both need to do what suits them...and I think that we all will have our own views too.
 
There is a lot of merit in how Chong believes that his way will actually enhance his Lady's security, and that is his informed judgement. But the most important thing is that they have both given it some thought and come to their own informed conclusions...cant do much better than that !!!


DavidE

[Peter]

Now I know that I am the living proof that my wife married me for love and not for the money..
She will leave a very good payed work, 10 000 Yuan per month, when she comes to live with me. She is a Manager for 25 Beauty Parlous in the Hunan Province.
To come to the point.. Chinese people try to invest their money in apartments and houses. This kind of property is their best way of making the money grow. We just bought a apartment in Changsha. The price was about 500 000 Yuan. 1 month later the price have gone up and now it would be 1 000 000 Yuan.... Talking abut making investments.. We will not sell this apartment because we will use it to trade for a better one later. We will have the apartment for renting until we get back..

The rent will be 300 Yuan for each apartment in the house. This is administration costs and some other minor costs.. Electricity and Internet we have to pay for and I don't know what it costs.. Included with the loan we will pay 2800 Yuan per month.. For this we get a 100 square meter big apartment on the 13 floor in a 22 floor big house quite close to the center of Changsha.. For this money I could only get a single room apartment, about 25 square meters big, in Sweden...

All this is made possible through knowing the right people and to have a good face. Face is all that matters in China when you need some good advice in different matters..
As I told you before I am a very lucky man who married a wealthy woman :icon_biggrin:

[David5o]

Peter,

I know what your saying here about property investment in China, it is very lucrative if you make the investments at the right time. There are drawbacks to property investments, one being the 70 year ''give back'' policy that's presently in force.
The other thing of course, the property is only worth the money someone is prepared to pay for it.
There are several new developments that have been built and are not selling too well, there are many reasons for this, but a major one is that the developers become greedy and ask too much.
So keep an eye on the price of the properties within your apartment block development, you may find that the price will fall again, to a level where they again start selling.
A 100% profit in one month seems just too good to be true, and when somethings too good to be true, it normally isn't!! ...haha!!

The 300 RMB a month, your talking about, ....do you mean a communal charge, for keeping the communal areas clean and in good order along with a service agreement for maintaining the lifts in a safe and working order?? ....If so that is not a bad monthly charge.

Your so right about what that sort of money would get you in any major European countries cities.....
What you describe above, we call a ''bedsit''  lol!!

David....

[Peter]

David...
I asked my lady what we had to pay for the apartment each month and she said 300 RMB will cover for the apartment. I was told that this is something that everyone who lives there are paying. I am not sure if this include the maintenance but I doubt it does..
Changsha is one of the cities in the "Economic development zone" among with some others. I guess this is why the prices on property have gone up like this. Our thought are to make an investment that we can use later. If the price on apartment will go down so is also the price on the next apartment we will buy. Our investment are for the future when I have retired ( 7 years from now I hope).. I am sure that my wife is doing the right thing about this and she got advices from some people who knows this business. They are also her friends so I don't think they will try to fool us. Anyway we still have a place to live in and it will be close to the Subway they are starting to build in Changsha (who know when this will happen).
A funny thing is that we own our apartment for 100 years.. I wasn't told what happens after 100 years but I will not be there to see :icon_cheesygrin:

Peter

[David5o]

Peter,

Hahaha!!, so very true, you won't give a dam!! But i was thinking along the lines of inheritance for any children you have/may have!! ....haha!!

Yeah, your right to buy now Peter, your wife and her friends are right in what there telling you. One thing is for sure, the price will only increase, but only in line with what people will or are prepared to pay for that property. (which is all i was pointing out in my last post).

I still find the price increase you stated over the course of 1 month, more than a little hard to believe, ...but hey, i could be wrong.

Over the last 3 years, Lucy has steadily invested our savings into 4 properties in two different city suburbs. The idea being to sell them all in around 5 years or so, purchase a decent apartment for ourself, and invest the rest, that will bring in a decent enough income for us to live very comfortably. Will will then probably divide our time between China, UK and Cyprus. We are constantly looking for an actual house with a decent amount of ground around it to purchase in China, that i can renovate. If we do find one, then that will be our residence rather than an the planned apartment at the moment. But they are very few and far between and not easy to find!!

So as far as i'm conserned, your doing the right thing. One thing, keep an eye on the maintenance of the development, Property developments can go down hill very quickly in China, if there not maintained to a good standard. I think you will find that, that 300RMB a month is the community maintenance charge. If you think about it, that's an awful lot of money when all those 300RMB's are combined. More than enough to keep the community areas clean and tidy and a service contract on the lift installations.....

David....

[Danny]

For me, I dont think I want to have a Pre-nup...it does not sit well with my view of marriage. But I surely concede that some others may have different ideas.

David

I agree. One has legal agreements as a defensive mechanism, to give you a formal way of sorting out disagreements. If you start out a marriage in this way what does that say about you? A marriage is a leap of faith. It is the triumph of hope and love, over your past experiences and your knowledge that many relationships fail, and fail miserably at that.

And besides it is hardly worth anything at all when it comes to a serious legal battle. The best way to sort out everything is to stay on good terms with the person you are divorcing and negotiate a fair and reasonable settlement. If the 24 hour rule applies to the beginning of relationships, it applies much more for the end of them.

Keep away from lawyers I say.

Danny

[David E]

And besides it is hardly worth anything at all when it comes to a serious legal battle. The best way to sort out everything is to stay on good terms with the person you are divorcing and negotiate a fair and reasonable settlement. If the 24 hour rule applies to the beginning of relationships, it applies much more for the end of them.

Keep away from lawyers I say.

Danny

Danny

Completely agree........

Hopefully the "other half" of the divorce can also keep away from smart Lawyers !!!

My Lawyers Bill from my divorce was into 6 figures...and this was AFTER I tried to make a very generous settlement between us. Problem was, she went to a very aggressive Divorce Lawyer who put stars in her eyes (and Bank Account) about what she could get if she REALLY took me to the cleaners. At that time, good relationships between us disappeared like smoke !!

DavidE

[Danny]

Completely agree........

I get what you're saying.

Sometimes when you're angry with someone, it's better to hold it in. Letting it spill out often makes things worse.

Even if you have good reason to be angry with someone, it's often better to stay remain patient and calm in a difficult situation. It is in your financial and emotional interest, and it's right thing to do as well.

I think what some guys don't get (and I am sure you do) that losing what you own is one thing, but losing your soul is another. I've seen some guys after a divorce so obsessed and bitter about what had happened, that they were no longer the same person . . . so in some ways they had lost everything, outwards and inwards. It's very sad.

[RegnisTheGreat]

On the other hand, salaries can get extreme. My brother (39 years old) who is working in China right now as an IT Manager/Management just found a job that pays 900K a year in Shanghai. His last job, working for Google, was paying around 400-500K a year. And before you ask, yes he's an expat in China. Raised in China, went to university in Canada, worked here several years and then went back.

Also, apartments are not as cheap as you think. A 120-150 square meter apartment (its all metric baby, no square feet) was looking at 2.0 to 2.2 million around the 4th Ring Road in Beijing (this was him looking a few months ago before finding the new job in Shanghai).

[Willy The Londoner]

My apartment in Zhongshan is quite large with two bedrooms andit cost 1200 rmb a calendar month.

I have no idea of the size.  To me size doesn't matter it's what you do with it that counts - and I am talking about space.

Since moving in here last month the owner has already renewed the Washing machine and the TV.

Willy

[chen yan]

 I see the example in my own life.  My father was self employed and realized the value of his income.  I had an uncle who made a LOT less but his family was always happy, playing sports together, cards, and other things they did that didn't require money.  We were all raised to understand it's not about stuff, but the people you surround yourself with.  Because like in the Dickens stories, what good is money if you don't have people you love to share it with?

Just my thoughts. >smile<

I agreed with it, And you can feel different feeling if you live in different cities in China. like my friends said she feel very satisfied about life when she lives in Xiamen, She lose the desire of shopping,it is not like when she lived in Shanghai. Now when she got the thousands of convertible paper which she can use in a shoppingmall,She donn't know what to buy and after shopping she didn't feel happy like before..I can understand her feeling,because  you realize shopping is just one of way to find happy,All you do is want to be happy. If you find you can be more happy from another way or feel satified now  , then you already know and got what's your chasing for life.