When is the right time to get off EMFs?

[markymark]

Hi All,
          I have been writing to this lady for 3 months now, earlier in our letters I suggested writing directly to each other's personal email boxes and use google online translator. I sent my personal email address and told her I would respect her decision but I did say that it might be fun to communicate this way and we could still use EMF. Needless to say that idea was knocked back saying that she did not think google was good to use and she preferred to communicate here ( via EMF ), I thought this was the translator cutting in maybe to protect any loss of revenue but then again not knowing for sure it could have been her true respnse given that she has next to nothing in english ability and my Chinese is likewise. Overall her letters have been constant in how she comes across. I have looked at what has been written about online translators. EMFs were okay for a while but I wanted to be sure I was getting her words directly and not something left to the translator to take care of. Okay we were both going to have to do some work but surely that would be part of getting to know each other, I do feel restricted in what I want to say via a translator. Also, communicating this way may possibly save her ( or me ) some fee or other, as if they are not charged enough IMO. I have never been certain if this is her true response but her letters always seem so business like or lack any warmth apart from when she said 'I was thinking about you' as she had paid for a boat trip for her family and maybe we could do a boat trip. The only other things were 'take very good care of yourself' and she thanked me for my 'warm words'. Maybe she is one who does not say such things but more likely shows you, I will not be sure until we meet and can hopefully compare letters ( if necessary ). She did praise the translator saying that she met her once and she's a very nice girl. The lady I write to is with Beijing OUI culture and information company, she lives in Chongqing so I have no idea of when or how she met the translator or if those are her actual words in describing the translator. I told her that so far I have asked the translator 3 separate questions and have never had a reply. The translator reckons she never had any questions come through. I also told her about the incident with my ADMIRAL LETTERS being renewed given that I have never read them in the first place ( on another post ). It was the translators/matchmakers fishing for revenue. She now knows I am not happy with Chnlove service or the practises that go on in the industry so I will not be buying anymore credits, we will have to find another way of communicating. I told her that I have no trust or faith in the service anymore but I still want to write and meet her also we will not have a translator forever. Afterall we are going to face this hurdle sooner or later. She knows that I care enough to meet her and that I want to teach again. One other thing, she mentioned that business at her shop was not too good and other shops had the same problem, I do not wish to put a negative slant on this but just take this as it is. I do not think she is asking for financial help, however, I had this scenario before with a woman shop owner I wrote to in Thailand some years ago who was very subtly asking for a hand out even though we had not met, needless to say I moved on.
I want to see if this relationship can ascend to another level. I feel there is enough info on this forum to overcome EMF contact. I am hoping to see just how serious we really are about this relationship and if we can make that leap of faith. What I hope to have done is to put the ball in her court and see what happens, maybe it will make or break the relationship or perhaps I have just screwed it up! Who knows? What do you think?

Cheers
         Mark.

[RobertBfrom aust]

Mark , have you had occasion yet to send her some flowers or a letter etc , or have you at least been able to get her address or phone number , as she is a long way from her agency it is not unreasonable to ask even if you do it through Chnlove proper channels , at present you are only an email , does she have a Q Q number ? you do not note your age , so in what age bracket is she , my boss { Ying ] is a ChongQing lady since birth , but we did not meet through the normal channels but any help that is required we can do . Oh and have you thought of a timetable to maybe visit her , or webcam there are numerous internet cafes as the area has a population of over 30 million and she will have a girlfriend that does speak English enough to help her .
 Maybe as Scottish Rob is thinking about visiting this fair city in the near future , he may also be of help , regards Ying and Robert .

[brett]

Yeah see if she has access to QQ/MSN/Skype or just email. It would be a good idea to see her on webcam just to make sure she looks and sounds like someone you're really interested in. It's probably a good idea to keep using EMFs for important stuff though.

And yes, despite the official 8% GDP figures, business for the average Chinese person ain't great right now. Go figure.

[ttwjr32]

Mark,
only you can decide this but if it was me i think 3 months time is
enough time to at least stumble about on qq or yahoo and see
each other. the computers here in china do have translation
software were it would come across half way decent. at least all
my wifes family and freinds have this so you two could at least
read what you saying.  with the push to learn english here maybe
it is standard on all computers?? not sure but its worth checking into.
your right you two have to cross this bridge eventually why not now?
sorry about the negative thoughts but i just think that chnl is not always
up front with many of their agencies.  just  a little thing i noticed from
all the responses being made at times. anyway my 2 cents worth
good luck with everything
ted

[Ed W]

My wife n I didnt get off EMF's until 3 months into writing daily. We then arranged with our translator to email a central box which the translator would receive, translate and forward on our letters. We didnt get away from translations alltogether until after we were married, at which point we use QQ and google translate ever since. I still has it's confusions but that's how it went for me.

[markymark]

Hi Gents,
               Thank you for your responses, I know it is all good advice and getting away from EMFs is the way to go IMHO so we can develop and nurture our relationship, afterall we have to communicate by ourselves but we can still use EMF if and when necessary. One thought that came to mind is how are we going to get on when I am in China, we have got to make a start. Yesterday, I saw that she had replied ( for some reason my spirit sank as I could guess what the letter contained ). Sure enough I get the impression she still wants to go the EMF route, but I feel she has left the door open if I can provide a solution ( am I reading too much into this? ). I told her I still want to write but not via Chnlove and I will not back down from this. My view is that we are not helping ourselves if we rely on EMFs all the time because we are not learning to communicate as a couple. All the work is done by and under the control of the translator in the conveyance of ideas / concepts / information. EMFs help us to learn about each other via another person and that will be subjected to that person's outlook / personality. IMHO ( sorry if I have repeated myself here, it's been a very long day ).

I have posted her reply regarding my issue

I'm a member of the agency which locates in Beijing, and our translator belong to the agency, not CHLove, I'm also one member of the site, because the agency helped me to, so if you asked question here, our translator can read it, if you leave somewhere else, she won't read. I know you have to pay money for reading and writing every letter and I also paid ahead of time, I believe the site is a legal one and they provide a good platform for us to know each other, don't you think so?
( this is exactly half of the letter she sent me in reply to my letter of 6000 characters whereby I explained in detail the reasons for my decisions and actions yet she does not give me any insight to her reasons, sometimes I really wonder if it is the translator that I am conversing with )

I am not questioning her agency and know that the translator belongs to the agency, it is the website that I have grief with regarding business practice and of controlling their affiliates ( I have already told her this). I do believe from what I saw on a thread that there may be an email box at the agency ( her email box at the agency? ) which I could write to.

She has sent pictures of her apartment and computer ( I am sure I saw a webcam too ), she lives in Yubei and travels a 20 minute taxi ride to her clothes shop ( I have no idea where it is ).

Gentlemen, what I fail to understand is why the reluctance / unwillingness for direct communication, why is she sticking like glue to the agency? She has her own computer so what is the problem? Am I viewing this incorrectly?

I re-read all the letters she sent and one thing she said previously about her view of being together as a couple did cause me some concern regarding suitability (what she said gave me the impression that she may be lazy at times). Her letters were always short, direct and sometimes questions never were answered. I might be seen as being negative here but upon re-reading the letters I really do not feel that there is any real chemistry and that is why I wanted direct communication to see if I could break past that wall of business like replies ( maybe it is the translator or maybe not). I always felt that she was busy with other things. I just feel that this relationship is not progressing after reading other people's stories.

Robert,
Unfortunately I have not had the occasion for anything like that. I wanted to ask but have never asked for any other contact details after she knocked back the idea of direct communication. I guess she must get my translated letters via email, she used to live in Beijing and has cousins there. I absolutely agree that I am just an email ( as she is to me ) that is why I wanted a direct contact so that we become more than an email. I am 52 and she is 37. I hope to be there mid December but will be taking a job in Xi'an if contract works out, they want teacher asap. Thank you for your offer my regards to you and Ying.

Brett,
Will do if the chance presents itself but I seriously don't hold any hope given the knock back of my earlier request.
About  the 8% GDP I agree things are tough in China but somehow they survive.

Ted,
I know you are right and those are my thoughts too. Don't worry about negative thoughts as I have those about chnlove and this is why I want out of their website. The incident about the admirer mails really pis***d me off.

Jim,
Read it a while back and again just recently, I am sure someone mentioned about sister agencies in Beijing. Your opinion is bang on! I do intend to try another direction but failing that then unfortunately it will have to be another lady. I need mental and emotional stimulation just like anybody else otherwise there is no point.

Ed W,
That is how I reckon my/our path will be with communication and I have no problem in that, it makes the journey worthwhile.
Thank you for the tip about the central email box at the agency,( I am sure David5o also mentioned something similar a while back).


My next letter will suggest that there should be an email box at the agency which I could send my letters to, for her to read. If there is no joy with that idea then I will probably end this relationship, should that happen then it is best to wait until I am in China and meet ladies face to face.

Anyway thank you for your answers and good luck to you and your ladies.
Mark

[RobertBfrom aust]

Mark , Xi'an seems like a terrific area to work and live , so good luck , talking with your lady , send less words only a couple of thousand at most , as by the time it gets via translator to the lady half will be lost in the translation and another third by your ladies memory and trying to understand what you are saying , do not forget that many of our English words do not translate at all or have multiple meanings , and so it is up to the translator to guess what you are saying .
 Have a look on asianfriend finder.com you may be lucky enough to find her there as I think from memory my Ying was with the same agency and was also listed on this site , costs nothing to look and at one time when she was having computer troubles we even sent a few emails this way for nothing , regards Ying and Robert .

[shaun]

Mark,

You expressed my exact thoughts, feelings and frustrations in regard to my issues with Pinky and P218.  It is almost like we are with the same agency and translator.  I really do not think it is an issue with the woman you are communicating with. I believe it is the tight control of the translator.

I do not remember if it was Proteus or Chinese Knot that told us that a translator had to send out 2500 Cupid notes a day. On blossoms.com it would be smiles. That is a lot of hits each and every day to generate. When a successful connection has been made then  you have to read a message, translate, then rewrite, call the woman the message is to, counsel her on how western men are, get a response from her, translate it into English, type it and send it. If they get a 10% return rate on their cupid notes that is 500 letters each day.  250 in and 250 out. Think about it.  There would be a lot of cut and paste.

Here we are wondering why the woman called us the wrong name, and sound different, and do not answer half of your questions,  the responses took too long or they were too short, and later we find out they didn't know anything about some of the letters we wrote and we wondered why there was a strange response.

Then we start complaining that we are not getting very good responses and the translator thinks who does this idiot think he is.  The translator then thinks this westerner is too much trouble but the boss says we need the income.  The translator is over worked and under paid, and no one is happy about any of this. Usually the westerner is smitten by a woman then takes off and goes to China before he figures out what is actually happening, gets there and sees this woman that does not really look lie the photo shopped pictures and images he has in his head.  I could go further down this trail but you get the picture.

So I think well???  If you can't beat them then change the tune. Go to another site. Well I did. I even tried to make sure that we were communicating outside of the agency. One woman I have been talking to tells me she has a computer at home. She has software to translate what I am saying and translates it back.  We IM each other 3 nights in a row 2 hours, 3 hours, and 3 hours. Wow, I'm in and it is great. I think this is wonderful, I am actually talking with a real woman without agency influence. Last night she does not appear.  Hmmm...  I hope she is alright.  Tonight?  She is not on the site, hasn't been for 2 days. Hmmm.... Man I hope nothing is wrong, I hope she isn't sick.  What is happening here?

Then it hits me.  The agency is closed for the weekend. :@ I thought I got around that issue.  Think again. I would almost bet anyone on this site for a 2 week all expense paid trip to China to see your favorite girl that this woman shows up tomorrow night just as normal as can be.  Why?  Agency is open.

I am beginning to think the only way around the EMF is to go to China and talk to her yourself and then set something up on QQ while you are there.

Proteus?  Am I right?  Is this really how it is?  They've got us by the gonads and they know it.

Right now I am totally disgusted with the whole thing.  I know some of you have been successful but the majority of us it is a failure.

We need to look way outside of the box (I hate that phrase, it is overused anymore) to figure a way around the agency.  Some have done it but I believe it is because the woman is at the same place we are.  It appears that most women are afraid to communicate outside of the agency for whatever the reason.  We may never know. The reason is more than likely different for each women but we have seen that there are women that do not trust the agency and translator.

The sad thing for me is, now I wonder if my relationship with Pinky could have been successful.

One thing to note is that there are successful men here because of good translators.  Maybe we should publish the agency and translator name. Then maybe chnlove would allow us to request translators for the women we want to court.

Shaun

[Vince G]

markymark, Her reply in the beginning is telling you that she is not with Chnlove. She isn't we (the men)are. She is a member of the agency, that's who she signed with. Yes she will have some loyalty to it for that's who got her money and she wants her monies worth. If your still in the beginning stages? she only sees you as being cheap for not wanting to have the letter translated after she spend much more for meeting you. As she gets more comfortable with you she may cross over to more private communications but for now she seems to want to leave it as it is.

[brett]

Guys, I've said this before and I'll say it again. EVERYONE IN CHINA HAS QQ! You can get it for mobile phones. If a lady doesn't want direct contact, for god's sake stop wasting your time and money and find another.

[David E]

Shaun

What an excellent post...you have taken many, many of the individual concerns from a lot of Bros and put them all into one place...I think your evaluation is right on !

For myself, i am beginning to think seriously that there is such a tiny percentage of "genuine" correspondence between us and our chosen ones in CHNLove that for all intents and purposes we must regard the whole process as a giant scam.

I am sooooo puzzled also, why after a reasonable time...3 months in Markymarks case, and similar for many others, why there is this total reluctance to get off EMF's.....it the natural progression of a relationship over that time, any woman seriously interested in a man would be busting her a** to get closer to him via personal communication...it is very likely that she doesn't want to and is just prolonging the deception ??

Add together the translator spin, this reluctance to move ahead, the ongoing revenue of EMF's, the lack of real "policing" of these people by CHNLove and I virtually conclude it is all basically a waste of time....and money.

It seems the answer lies in jumping on a plane and going to see for yourself if she is genuine or not...and is that what the Agencies REALLY want...because it triggers another fee from the Lady when you go there!!

Of course, this process is costly, fraught with emotional danger and disappointment.....been there, done that !!

I am in the same boat as most of us...4 months communication...many warm words, many written promises...but no QQ, no private communication...so today I pulled the pin on her...its all a scam.

Maybe ShifuLem will get it right..I am giving them a go...I tried Cherry blosom...not impressed !!!

DavidE

[brett]

Yes we need some sort of new "dump 'em" rule if a relationship fails to get off EMFs after a certain amount of time. I have seen how many home computers, internet cafes, web enabled mobiles, automatic translation software packages, QQ users there are in China. Yes if your lady is over 40 then maybe she's a technophobe, but China is no 3rd world country when it comes to technology.

That chnlove is scamming us, I have no doubt about that. I mean come on, many of us are practically at the engaged state, and yet our lady profiles are still visible, and other men can waste their money writing to women who are spoken for.

I guess the agency makes the bulk of its EMF money from the first contact EMFs. Some agencies are very skilled at making money - I doubt there's a coincidence that my first EMFs went to Changsha Love Bridge sweeties.

The other lesson new brothers must learn is not to trust the Chinese. Yes I will get flamed by the Chinaphiles amongst us for saying this. But I have been told this from people whose opinions I value highly, and it has served me well so far.

[David E]

Guys

I am going to add a biyt more about this subject because my blood is boiling and I want to get it off my chest...please forgive my ramblings !!!!

To Brett....

It is programmed into a womans genes to be able to make any man understand that she is interested and/or available...they dont need training or experience...they can do it from birth !!!

I certainly dont claim to be an expert on relationships and emotions, but I am an old man and I have been round the block a few times and I KNOW it is always possible to KNOW if a woman is attracted to you...she will make you know it...and I dont care if she has never had a relationship before, or is a never-been-kissed virgin...she KNOWS how to attract you.

Did your Lady just turn up due to pressure from the Agency, did she ever give you subtle messages that she welcomed your attention, did she seem to be receptive and happy with the ( limited) physical contact with you....I think not.

And now, the whole thing is gently tapering off...not with a bang, but a whimper...move on my friend !!

And if we want to consider a really good conspiracy theory that i have just dreamed up in my black mood today...is this Forum getting up CHNLove's nose are we marked Men...to be taught a lesson ??

Or am I too paranoid today (hahaha)

Thanks for listening you great bunch of guys

DavidE
A final thought

Would Chen Yan...our latest Lady member, care to tell us how she would see her relationship with a western man develop ?/.....How would she feel about moving to a face-to-face web-cam situation, would she want to do this early, would she NOT want to do this.

I am sure dear Lady that we would all like to hear your opinion about what we are saying here about honesty in communication

Thank you

DavidE

[brett]

Thanks David.

Yes I must admit that as soon as I saw my lady's profile on chnlove I thought that she didn't really belong on the site. She was different to the other ladies, and my meeting her confirmed that.

I still don't know what her motives are for finding a Western husband. Did I make a mistake in not asking her this? Maybe I did. Perhaps this is something we all need to ask our ladies.

I also now realise that her parents have a big say in her marriage, maybe a lot more than many of the women here. Again, not taking a translator to meet them was a gigantic mistake (although to be fair on me her agency is 1000 miles away and my lady was vague as to whether I could find a translator in her home town).

Yes I know now that we are programmed to have relationships. I am new at this but I felt very relaxed when I met my lady and it all felt natural. I do find my lady a complex character though. She has a lot of self confidence, but in other ways she is still a little girl. Heck, she still has a kid's duvet cover and her room is full of stuffed animals. :icon_cheesygrin:

Another big mistake I believe I made was to pursue her too much. Perhaps she thinks the deal is done and she doesn't need to woo me any more? I need to be more mindful of my well travelled friend who tells me that a Western husband is a dream meal ticket for many Asian women. They should be wooing us more, not the other way round. Yes I will get flamed for saying this but I am offering the right lady the chance to never work again in some 1000RMB a month slave job and the chance to have as many kids as she wants.

I guess a 30 year old lady who hasn't yet found a man could have a skeleton in her closet. I do wonder why her parents haven't found her a Chinese guy, after all her family is huge and the pool of friends of friends must cover pretty much the entire city.

I will find out this week what's going on. In the meantime I will sort through my favourites and see if I overlooked my special somebody!

I thank the brothers for all their input and hopefully we have all learned something from this. We don't learn much from the good experiences, we learn from the bad!

[Willy The Londoner]

We know that there are a lot of ladies on Chnlove but how many male members are there scattered about the world.  Thousands more than the few hundred that belong to this forum.

Some women have been in conversations with lots of men, many at the same time.  Why should they show their true colours when writing.  How many women had each of us writen to before settling on the one we are now with or writing too.  

How many of the women that were quietly dropped have had the same experience time and time again.  Is it any wonder that they show limited interest.

We really have to expect apathy amongst them until that first meeting takes place because, guys, they have heard it all before.  

But once that meeting has taken place then you will either go your own way or have the closest union that you will ever imagine.

Willy