When You know it is just right

[shaun]

Hi all,

My relationship with Peggy has been humming along just fine.  We talk every day for hours.  She is working in a retail store sometimes pulling a double shift.  16 hours in total and then gets the next day off.

I am planning to go to China hopefully leaving the evening of March 30.  If not then the morning of March 31.  Not having much luck finding a flight suitable to my wishes.  I've got a little time to look.  Will be there 10 to 11 days.

This we were talking at a time I usually reserve for myself but noticed she was out there.  I get the question, "Will you want a motel or do you want to stay with me?"  That takes us into a long discussion that I will not bore you with though it was quite a bit of fun and informative.  We talk about going to Shaoguan and staying in the same room in a motel.  I ask her what her family will think if we do, since that is where her family lives.  She tells me they will be OK because we will be engaged by then and I would have given her mother the engagement cash.  This is the first I have ever heard of this.

So tell me guys who have been through this.  Is this for real and if so what is a decent amount to give?  Her family from what I can tell is not wealthy but rather on the poor side though mother is well taken care of.

Peggy tells me that she spoke with her mother about it and that she will give the cash to her for moving to America.

What gives?

Shaun

[ttwjr32]

Shaun,

there are a lot of factors involved were this is concerned.
her first marriage?
city?
countryside?
richer or poorer?

but many people derive their own interpertations from these
factors and imply them

[rockycoon]

Shaun, she is just a little worried.  By the way, how much did you give her parents? Not trying to be nosy but I may have to do the same one day.

And Shaun, my friend and buddy, next time a woman asks if you want to stay at her place....SAY YES :icon_cheesygrin:

Your gonna give us oil field trash a bad name....hahaha:icon_cheesygrin::icon_cheesygrin::icon_cheesygrin:

[shaun]

Mike,

She was the first one I asked.  She said, "According to Chinese tradition she cannot request your how many.  It is up to you."

I was trying to find a ballpark here.  I get the idea she will find her value in what I give.

One think I have learned from her.  If she will not say then she will not say.


Shaun

[Rhonald]

When I went in February just after Chinese New Year, my wife asked me to give 2000 rmb to each of her parents
as both a new years gift and bride price. Maybe redirect you question to her and say the more you give to the mother, the less you have for the ring.

[shaun]

Ron,

Good idea, she keeps wanting to talk about marriage.  Almost every time we begin out chat she will ask who is your wife?  I will say I don't have one to which she will say, who will be your new wife?  I will reply, you IF all works well with us on my first trip.

She has been asking about rings.  There is no doubt she wants one.  It is a good idea to tell her the more I give the less I can purchase.

She tells me she didn't get a ring or a ceremony in her first marriage.  I have said we will have to see what she wants when I get there.



Shaun

[zook144]

I get the question, "Will you want a motel or do you want to stay with me?"  That takes us into a long discussion that I will not bore you with though it was quite a bit of fun and informative.  We talk about going to Shaoguan and staying in the same room in a motel.  I ask her what her family will think if we do, since that is where her family lives.  

Shaun,
I would not suggest staying in the same hotel room. Especially at first. I would give it a couple of days to get to know each other first. Then if you are comfortable with each other and all the signals are right, suggest the same room or ask her. Or stay with her, whichever works for you. I went through this on my first trip to China.  Same room, same bed the first night we met. It became very confusing and frustrating. Do I or Don't I? (Read my post of last year for more on this) Of course, there are many variables to this. Different ladies, different believes, and yes different men. I am probably not the ladies man that you are. :icon_cheesygrin:  Anyway, I am heading to China again in March, and have already told my lady we will book 2 rooms for when we first meet. Then we'll see what happens.
Good luck
Don

[shaun]

Don,

Thank you for your comment.  I told that story not to decide whether I should sleep with her or not.  I was asking about the engagement cash.  I do not plan to stay with her or sleep in the same bed with her.  I am looking for a wife not a sex mate, though sex is an important issue but at this point will only cloud my judgment.

I also wanted to know the customs surrounding engagements and marriage.

I am a one step at a time kind of guy.  I must meet her face to face, get to know her some, confirm what I think I know already. There is a time and place for everything and I do not want to rush it.

Shaun

[David E]

Shaun

I specifically covered the issue of engagement and dowry money with Ming....because I want to know what I'm up for before I get a nasty shock...or otherwise.

Her response to me was along the lines that because it is second marriage for her, her folks will not want an engagement "fee" or a dowry, but it would be a nice thing for me to buy them a gift anyway.

We have not discussed what sort of gift could be appropriate (maybe they are thinking of a Ferrari or an apartment !!!!!!!!!!!!)...but for me, I would be thinking something quite modest, maybe worth a thousand or so. I will explore the issue further before I leave on 12th Feb.

But it would be good to get some level of understanding what size of payment Peggy and family have in mind...if it is very small, you could agree ??...if it is outrageous.....back to the negotiating table :icon_cheesygrin::icon_cheesygrin:

David

[shaun]

David,

Sometimes, and I am sure you understand, it can be quite frustrating talking with Peggy.  I talked with her about the engagement money and she continues to tell me that it is not her place to say what it should be.  Peggy can be a little stubborn with certain issues and it seems to relate to money.  She basically tells me she wants me to give from my heart.  So I take this to mean she wants to see what value I place on her.

I guess I will ask for her sisters email address since she is back in the US.  Her sister has always intervened when Peggy does this and helps me to understand.

She is treating me more like a husband every day.  She asked me if she could buy some clothing for Spring Festival.  After many questions I realized she wants a womans business suit for her new sales job at a mall. I told her yes of course.  Then she wants to know what we will do for Spring Festival.  I try to cover and ask her what she would like to do.  She tells me it is my place to decide.  So, I respond that I have never been to China so I do not understand all of the Spring Festival customs.  Her reply? Study.  I can tell I will have my hands full.  

Oh, yes and she told me to ask some of my local Chinese friends. :s  I have one.  She and her husband are having marriage difficulties and she told me that it would look good for her to be talking with me right now. I've noticed that she is being that way with all men.  Don't know what is up with that except that maybe her husband is the jealous type. He is Chinese too.  I have 2 Korean friends and 1 Filipino friend.  Her comment?  Hmmm...

So, I am off to work and study later.

Shaun

[mustfocus]

Hi Shaun,

Not to impede on your studying (ever the student) :icon_cheesygrin: but I pulled up the Wikipedia listing [Click here].

That said, I do have to warn you that it has been written by people who are quite heavily influenced by South-East Asian chinese traditions (Singapore/Malaysia).

From my friends in China and from the blogs I have read, many families try to travel during Chinese New Year or they hold reunion dinners (this one is most common, especially with large spread out families) as this is one of very few times where you can get whole families together to do something.

(note, I am also SEA-biased in terms of CNY as my background is from there as well... but I see it from an outsider's perspective as well)

Hopefully some of the ladies here can help you as well.

[David5o]

Shaun.

It seems your doing your best here, but you do need to be a little more confident even if it's for her eyes only.

As far as the Spring Festival goes, yes by all means study up a bit on it, but also make it clear to her that your coming to China primarily to meet and be with her. Making decisions on what your both going to do in the time your there, is going to be impossible without knowing what she would enjoy doing. Important decisions are generally taken by the man/husband in China, but that's not to say that both of you don't dicuss things through fully, before making that decision. What your going to do over the festival does not come under that catorgory!!

Now as for the engagement money, ..... Your asking her for a little guidence here, and i can't really understand her reluctance to give you that guidance. So now the only avenue open to you is trying to contact the sister for that guidance, which really, you shouldn't have to be doing!!!

Don't forget along the way here, ...that your Culture/customs are just as important as hers, that's somthing that many here forget. If you think that your culture/customs on a particular subject is important to you, then do not just give way to her Culture/customs, this is where you need to talk about things and come to an agreed compromise, now that's going to be difficult if she just refuses to talk about such matters!!!

You need to show her your confidence, and make it clear to her that when you ask her something you at least want some sort of  meaningful answer. Let her know that you are both still learning about each other, and that you would prefer to get her opinions on things rather than have to read or ask friends about them.....

David....

[dude]

Mike,

She was the first one I asked.  She said, "According to Chinese tradition she cannot request your how many.  It is up to you."

I was trying to find a ballpark here.  I get the idea she will find her value in what I give.

One think I have learned from her.  If she will not say then she will not say.


Shaun

Shaun,

My wife told me it was bad luck(maybe the same as Chinese tradition) for her to tell me an amount and she wasn't suppose to know/see the amount. Being it was our second marriages, I gave a small amount but it ended with 8 or 9...I don't remember...just a good luck number. I didn't read if she has been married previously...this will make a difference. I think all I spent on marriage and wedding we ended up getting in return(via red envelopes). Maybe if I was in your shoes I might feel uncomfortable if she was asking about rings and marriage so often, maybe insecurities...but pushing you this way may not be a good thing. Also I notice you have her name written wrong unless Zhu isn't her last name...I know a couple people in Changsha with this surname...hehehee...now I'm pushing you bro!!! just kidding!

[ttwjr32]

DavidE-   i would stick with the apartment because the ferrari would
              be an expensive expense each month for them to park in China.
              not to mention the cost of fuel:icon_cheesygrin:

[David E]

Ron,

Good idea, she keeps wanting to talk about marriage.  Almost every time we begin out chat she will ask who is your wife?  I will say I don't have one to which she will say, who will be your new wife?  I will reply, you IF all works well with us on my first trip.

She has been asking about rings.  There is no doubt she wants one.  It is a good idea to tell her the more I give the less I can purchase.

She tells me she didn't get a ring or a ceremony in her first marriage.  I have said we will have to see what she wants when I get there.



Shaun

Take care with your plan to buy a ring in China....fakes abound everywhere...even in "Good" jewellery shops !!!...and if you dont know how to judge the quality of a real stone...then you may get a real stone full of flaws that is virtually worthless.

I plan to buy a ring here, where I can be certain of the quality...and if all works out, then I will give it to her...if it doesn't, well I will have a ring ready for the next one :icon_cheesygrin::icon_cheesygrin:

On the other subject about engagement gifts and Peggy's reluctance to get involved in the planning process....I would respectfully remind you of some advice you gave to a Bro some time ago..."Man Up" !!!!!!

David5o is right...this is a two way street, she will have to modify some of her "Chinese" ways, just as you will have to modify some of your "Western" traits...but you cant do it all on your own...you cant be  a 100% Chinese Man...because you aint !!!!!

You know that you want a Wife who will be a partner, as well as everything else...so you should make it clear that sharing decisions about BIG things is a Western thing and it is also very important.

You have already got to a point of acceptance that she has "out-stubborned" you...and I would not be comfortable with that for myself !!!

How the hell would you know what to do at Chinese New Year....? it is not reasonable for you to even attempt to make that decision from so far away, without any real knowlege on which to base a decision...She should certainly understand this and be already telling you what she has planned for you BOTH to celebrate HER Spring Festival....it is her opportunity to show off this wonderful occasion to her future Western husband.

I told Ming that I have 2 needs for the Festival...I want to let off some fireworks...because they have been banned here for many years and it will bring back many happy memories for me. And also that I want to eat lots of hot-pot...other than that, she can organise what she wants and I will give it a go !!

I also told her that I am happy to discuss with her any arrangements beforehand, but I WONT make the decision. If she wants me to decide what we do, then I will make these decisions when I arrive....and she will be stuck with them :icon_cheesygrin::icon_cheesygrin:

Lastly Shaun...about the engagement/gift thing. As I said before, Ming tells me that her folks would not expect an engagement gift or marriage dowry of money...so I enquired of her WHAT would be considered an appropriate gift. My enquiry was based on doing the right thing and showing proper respect and honour to her Parents..NOT to haggle over the size/value of the gift. Same as Peggy, she got all coy about this and dived off-track (as she does when flustered !!!).

I told her we would re-visit this issue so she should give it some thought because I wont let it go !!!...and I wont, I want her to be quite sure that I will always do what I say I will do...even if it pulls her out of her comfort / culture zone just a little :icon_cheesygrin::icon_cheesygrin:

Cheers

David