Author Topic: ESL - how do you cope?  (Read 4201 times)

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Offline David K

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RE: ESL - how do you cope?
« Reply #15 on: November 27, 2009, 07:50:45 pm »
I found technology most helpful... The week before I arrived in Shenzhen, she sent me a picture of a High End language translator she had brought ( it was then that I realised she was serious about a committed realtionship..with me..)
First thing was for both of us to learn drive the thing - more orientated to Chinese that english - and then to use it. It served its purpose, albiet a little frustratingly.  I dont doubt with the research on speech recognition and synthesis going on, plus Moores law in technology, that within a year or two, I will speak into it in English, it will convert to Mandarin and voice that accordingly. So we keep an eye on translator progress.  Meanwhile we found body language most useful. Modesty prevents me from adding more :-)
« Last Edit: November 27, 2009, 07:51:51 pm by David K »
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brett

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RE: ESL - how do you cope?
« Reply #16 on: November 28, 2009, 12:01:03 pm »
Yesterday our Chinese teacher was trying to show us the pronunciation difference between zhi, shi, ri and chi. Honestly, we could barely tell the difference!

There are many different ways of learning Chinese, but we are being taught the word, the pinyin (with the tone), plus the character. I think this way is good.

I am not yet convinced the Chinese use the tones to determine exactly what somebody is saying, I think the context the word is used in is of much more importance.

I am glad I found such a good Chinese teacher, as I am now beginning to understand why my lady phrases her English sentences the way she does. Hopefully I will be able to write much better Chinese, especially after next term's lessons which concentrate on writing.

Offline David K

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RE: ESL - how do you cope?
« Reply #17 on: December 09, 2009, 04:17:00 pm »
Quote from: 'David K' pid='24173' dateline='1259369445'

 I dont doubt with the research on speech recognition and synthesis going on, plus Moores law in technology, that within a year or two, I will speak into it in English, it will convert to Mandarin and voice that accordingly.
[/i]

More on Moores law - Dragon Dictate on the Iphone :-)
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/12/09/dragon_dictation/
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Offline Voiceroveip

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RE: ESL - how do you cope?
« Reply #18 on: December 09, 2009, 04:56:57 pm »
Quote from: 'David K' pid='25055' dateline='1260393420'

Quote from: 'David K' pid='24173' dateline='1259369445'

 I dont doubt with the research on speech recognition and synthesis going on, plus Moores law in technology, that within a year or two, I will speak into it in English, it will convert to Mandarin and voice that accordingly.
[/i]

More on Moores law - Dragon Dictate on the Iphone :-)
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/12/09/dragon_dictation/


well dragon dictate works on a tablet PC, or a tiny netbook, why they would run it hosted on an Iphone is a mistery to me, certainly with newer mobile phones becoming more and more powerful (HTC Hero) and maybe you'll soon find an Intel Atom CPU in a phone, battery technology is going that way, it will be easy to run those algorithms on a pocket pc or equivalent.

It will still be a long wait until you get a real time voice recognition translator, the market is not that big to drive that, and you would be talking expensive for early adopters like most high end gadgets ...
« Last Edit: December 09, 2009, 04:58:06 pm by Voiceroveip »
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Offline RegnisTheGreat

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RE: ESL - how do you cope?
« Reply #19 on: December 09, 2009, 05:19:34 pm »
No way in heck you'll find an Atom in the CPU. Too high power. Battery technology is growing but not that fast.

rockycoon

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RE: ESL - how do you cope?
« Reply #20 on: December 09, 2009, 09:42:26 pm »
I learned to speak spanish by working with mexicans, I had a neighbor that was mexican and learned to read mexican because of the newspaper, while living in Phoenix.  So living, working with chinese one would think that would be the best way, without school to learn chinese, I guess the same goe's for chinese learning english.  I learned more spanish living in Phoenix, than I did in High school in a class.
But you know that translator that your talking about is very interesting.  According to you, you just speak a sentence into it, push a button and it translates it back into chinese? What kind of translator does she have and where can I get one.? are there other kinds?
« Last Edit: December 09, 2009, 09:45:00 pm by rockycoon »

Vince G

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RE: ESL - how do you cope?
« Reply #21 on: December 09, 2009, 10:48:34 pm »
My lady has a Besta. She does very well with it too. She studies all the time. She even said some people might think she's crazy talking to herself in english? (practicing). She once asked how long I studied english before I new enough? I didn't have an answer. My guess was 12 years? (Schooling)

We both figure we will learn from each other once together.

Offline David E

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RE: ESL - how do you cope?
« Reply #22 on: December 10, 2009, 05:54:02 pm »
Because I now have the luxury of long daily chats on QQ with Ming, I have begun to help her with English to add to her knowlege she gets from her formal lessons.

From what I gather from her discussions, i dont think that the lessons she gets in China are really doing a lot of good, they seem to concentrate on just learning words, and a bit of pronunciation, not context or structure.

So...I had a few lengthy sessions with my Daughter (who teaches English to ESL students and Parents here in Aus) to get some help as to the most effective way to speed English learning..

Some of the key points she advises me about, in order to speed the learning process may help any of you who may be helping your ladies, either in person or via QQ or similar.

Firstly, it is important to understand the "syllable" issue. For a "newbie", trying to get the whole word off pat is often difficult because many words in English seem not to have logical construction if you try to get them in one bite !

To break each word into syllables speeds both the learning and the comprehension.

Secondly...and it is a very important point, particularly for Chinese speakers....is the actual sounds of the words and syllables. We apparently pay too much attention to getting the sounds exactly right in the early days of learning and we should understand that Chinese speech is so different...that they dont have the muscle structure developed enough to properly form the English word sounds. It is a similar impediment to us learning Chinese...except that the tonality and voices demand the use of correct sounds...difficult for us

This skill only comes with time and with the development of the correct and appropriate muscle structure in the tongue, mouth and throat.

So the advice is...dont be too picky about the English word sounds in the early days, better sounding pronunciation only comes after some time, as the correct muscles develop and strengthen.

For your information, hope it is helpful

David E