Religion Thread

[Arnold]

arnold I think that 'To change, I must desire change', was said by Abraham Lincoln, on one of his inaugeral speeches, he 'took' it from one of the many philosopher speech's made by Aristotle...:icon_biggrin:

As I love to read Betty J. Eadie books ( The Ripple Effect , Embraced by the Light , The Awakening Heart ) all New York Times #1 bestseller's , so it show's that some or many forms of speeches are copied over and over in other writing's , as you say is this .
Sometimes without knowing I'm sure , realizing you are using somebody else's word's in your Book . Would she owe Aristotle's Family some Money for this ?  Can you imagine all the Law Suit's that would create  . There would be no Barnes & Noble .

[shaun]

Shaun I think you are wrong or misinformed? Only going by what I have heard but the Koran does not have anything in it saying kill others that are of different religion. Jews, Muslims and christians lived in Jerusalem with peace for a long time (hundred (s) of years). It is just the newer Muslims that interpreted it differently and have started there own crusade.

Vince, with all that I am doing right now I have not had the chance to check my copy of the Koran to respond about spiritual violence and the approval or lack of approval of. The peace you speak about in Jerusalem is only a perceived peace by military force.  Palestinians are not allowed to move around Jerusalem at will unless they are under the employment of an Israeli approved transportation company.  Each Palestinian employed goes through a considerable background check before hiring. If there is any question they are not hired and if the look to be sympathetic to the Palestinian cause they are fired. There are military check points where they do not allow people to enter into other specific areas of town.

Go to the temple mound and walk around like you are counting your steps, you will be escorted off the mound by Palestinian police.  There are minor  skirmishes nearly every day but they do not get reported very much any more. They are too commonplace. Each day tour guides call into the military intel. prior to taking tour groups out to look for hot beds of activity to avoid.  Live in Peace? Only by force and even then it is not a guarantee.

[Vince G]

I'm to lazy to look it up right now but I was referring to there was a time maybe a thousand years ago when all 3 religions lived with no problems between them for a very long time in Jerusalem. Until one day some army (not roman) came marching in and took over and since then it's been a mess.

Of course today it is way different.

[Vince G]

Yes it was the Turks.

Islam was founded by Mohammed in 622 AD and the armies of Islam captured Jerusalem in 638. The Dome of the Rock was built on the site of the former temple. Jerusalem was now the center of Jewish, Christian and Muslim faiths. Jerusalem remained peaceful until the Turks began to persecute Christians and destroy churches around 1009 AD. The Turks captured Jerusalem in 1071 and closed all Christian sites. The Pope initiated the Crusades in 1095 to try and wrest the Holy Land back from the Muslims. The Crusaders captured Jerusalem in 1099 and massacred all of the Muslim inhabitants. The Kingdom of Jerusalem was established and fortified by the European Christians. They remained until 1291, when the city recaptured by the Turks.

[Vince G]

L.I.N.Y. the Catholic sister says if you go into any other Church or Temple it is a sin and you will spend eternity with your flesh burning and suffering all the days of time.  

Come on Mike give me something more then some girl that wanted to make a video. Like someone that has studied the scripts.

[feisnik]

Well, as anyone who has viewed my FaceBook, Twitter, or Blogger profile knows, I am a former Russian Orthodox Deacon with an equivalent to a Masters degree in Divinity. But I respect all faiths and learned a lot by visiting Buddhist and Taoist temples, and a Confucian School in China.

[Vince G]

Russian Orthodox, I haven't been to one. I've been to Greek Orthodox Church. I find them all interesting.

[shaun]

As a casual observer the Greek and Russian Orthodox appear the same and I am sure Nik will tell you there is a lot of differences.  I am sure there are.

Mike I was thinking about stirring the old pot up again, thanks for getting it started again.  Vince, I started looking through my copy of the Koran when I mentioned the killing of family members but I got side tracked.  I will try to look it up again. I've read it there before and am reasonably sure it isn't one of those late night pepperoni pizza dreams I've had.

[Vince G]

17 year old girl from OHIO whose father is threatening to KILL HER for converting to Christianity.

Mike have you followed up with what is going on with her? They had the whole story today on the news. Someone saw it as I did, "Fake Honour killing girl Sheds crocodile tears"

She says that she had to hide she was a Christian from her father? SO why did he threaten her? if he didn't know? She ran away to guess where? FLORIDA. To some pastor and his wife. How did she come to know this man? a Chat line? This is another Tawana Brawly (however spelt).

[David5o]

Danny,

Who the hell's going to thank someone for let's say ....robbing them, and smacking them in the gob in the process?? Same thing isn't, ...you just ain't gonna thank anyone that does you a bad turn ...God or anyone else!!

David....

[Vince G]

MIke first that is about being in a war. Not killing your daughter because she is christian. Second, there is a spinoff of the koran just like cult leaders have done with the bible. To make themselves right. The true Koran does not say to kill anyone. The spinoff does and this is what the terrorist are going by. The rest of the Muslim world knows they are wrong for doing this. This is why you can not blame all muslims for what a group of them do.

Her father has said his christian friends know he did not say this. Yes maybe it's a weak excuse but he must be trying to prove himself against many that took the side of the daughter without knowing the truth.

And he did not say. "that if you have this Jesus in your heart, you're dead to me. You are not my daughter. I will kill you" this was something made up by someone. This is a court case and if it was said he would be in jail, which his not. I prefer to hear the true words used not what the media made up.

[Vince G]

Yes yes but that is living in a muslim state or territory not Ohio.

[shaun]

Vince, there are Muslims who do not believe in violence and murder but the Koran tells the believer to do it.  The corruption of the Koran is a story that has been around for many years. When you go into a Islamic nation and ask for a copy of the true Koran they will tell you there is only one to give.  I've got one in English. You ask for a corrupted version and you will start an argument you do not want to get into. I know I've done it.

We have discussed the accuracy of the Bible several times in the thread and I don't want to beat a dead horse here.

The proof is in the pudding.  I have ministered in several Christian churches in the middle east.  The one that comes to mind is a Baptist Church in Bethlehem.  When we arrived there the first time I was amazed that a church had an 8 ft wall with barbed wire surrounding it and a manned gate.  The gate opened and the bus we were traveling in pulled in and the gate was closed immediately. We didn't get off until a person came on the bus and checked out each and everyone of us. They looked into the cargo holds and asked questions about what we brought with us. The people there escorted us into the sanctuary and we waited, and waited, and waited.  Slowly people began arriving.  After about 2 hours of waiting I asked the pastor if something was wrong.  He told me that two people had been missing but now only one person was.

The pastor explained that since these former Muslims had become Christians that family member tried to kill them. He said that according to Islamic faith it was better to be murdered in the name of Allah than to believe anything else. When one person was missing in the church they sent people out to find them to make sure the missing person was OK.

One of the two missing was home sick. They sent members out to check on her and one stayed to make sure everything was safe.  The other they were not sure about. We waited for a little over 3 hours until they showed up.  It turns out that he was stopped by Isreali military at a check point between Jerusalem and Bethlehem. They went through his car and interrogated him because he looked like a familiar terrorist that the government was looking for.

I have experienced this on more than one occasion between Israel and Iran.

The story Mike is talking about I do not know about and will not comment.

Shaun

[Vince G]

I've got one in English.
The pastor explained that since these former Muslims had become Christians that family member tried to kill them. He said that according to Islamic faith it was better to be murdered in the name of Allah than to believe anything else.

Well you have the Koran in english, does it say that?

Back to this girl. I think she is using the American's lack of knowledge to gain the courts decision that it's alright for her to runaway to become christian. And live with another couple? (Who really knows what's going on there?). Why was this pastor online talking to a 15 year old? Inviting her to his home? Hey he must have gave her the address or picked her up? She's there now. Here in Florida the con artist capital of the US.

[David5o]

Vince,

We in the UK, have about 3 honour killings and attempted killings every year, mainly Pakistanis...
It's real Vince, some of these Pakistanis come from the real backwaters in there country. ...How they manage to get into the UK in the first place, God only knows.

All sorts are going on behind closed doors Vince, the honour killings are just the tip of the iceberg so to speak. Young girls of 12,13 14,15 born as British citizens are being taken back to Pakistan and married off to dirty disgusting old men, that treat these girls as slaves and sex objects....

When School officials start investigating why these girls are not at school, all sorts of shit comes out.  Now when a young Asian girl stops attending school the schools are informing social services and the police. Some of these girls are actually rescued and brought back to the UK.... but they don't go back to anywhere near the parents hometown.

The last case i heard about was a brother, a brother-in-law and the father Beating and stabbing to death his own daughter because she was going to marry an English guy. She had already left the family home, they came looking for her, intent on killing her.  That was only about 8 months ago or so.....

David.....