Author Topic: Religion Thread  (Read 87890 times)

0 Members and 10 Guests are viewing this topic.

Offline Rhonald

  • Ziyan Zhou (Yan)
  • Moderators
  • Registered User
  • ****
  • Posts: 1,550
  • Reputation: 11
RE: Religion Thread
« Reply #225 on: September 10, 2009, 10:31:08 am »
David5o I also share the same view as you do. As my post stated, "left him wondering how". I was pretty sure of some influential zealots in the conversion. My friend might have been confused but I do not think your theory so far fetched. Cleanliness might be next to godliness - but I don't think they were refering to scrubbing our brains clean.:icon_confused:

At this time I like to thank you for many a funny joke you have posted. It comes to the point now that when I share one of your barn burners with my co-workers I ended the joke with "David5o". Makes me remember that early police show Hawaii five-O. You are the Jack "LORD" of the just for a laugh thread.
« Last Edit: September 10, 2009, 10:37:27 am by Rhonald »
Life....It's all about finding the Chicks and Balances

Arnold

  • Guest
RE: Religion Thread
« Reply #226 on: September 14, 2009, 12:15:53 pm »
So , as last night was my last night in my own Bed .. as I'm leaving tonight for the Airport .
I thought I share about my pretty restless night and the Dream that I had .
I don't really know how or when it started , but what I remember the best ... is , I found myself in Bed next to my late Wife . We even started to make Love ( me knowing that I was married to Qing though ) , but before it got too far ... my late Wife handed me a piece of paper . Most of it was foggy but not the very bottom and it said in big print " I Love You " . Now as I loved this Woman for 30 year's
AND knowing I was married again , my Mind started to think ? Here I am in a situation where I need to choose Nancy or Qing ? Mind you , I was still asleep . How can I tell either one ... I must leave you for the other ? At exact that moment I woke up and of course , now there was no choice to make .
But , as I know ... every Dream has a meaning behind it .
I concider this a message from above , that this Woman ( Nancy ) still loves me and want's the best for me ... even though she is only here in Spirt . This is actually not the first time , since she has passed away ... that I felt her Love for me .

It's a great feeling , to go and see my Sweetheart / Wife Qing again , with what I see as Her's and God's blessing .
« Last Edit: September 14, 2009, 02:55:11 pm by Arnold »

brett

  • Guest
RE: Religion Thread
« Reply #227 on: September 16, 2009, 10:56:37 am »
Hmm, my lady has not mentioned religion, so I don't know if she is religious. We'll certainly visit a temple while we're together though, the Taoist temples in Hong Kong were absolutely fantastic.

I wonder if I should ask my lady if she is superstitious? What if she finds out my house number is 14? When I stayed in Hong Kong, the hotel didn't even have a 4th floor, or a 14th floor :s.

Offline David K

  • Yan Wang xxxx
  • Registered User
  • ***
  • Posts: 187
  • Reputation: 2
RE: Religion Thread
« Reply #228 on: September 20, 2009, 10:11:34 pm »
Zen Poetry of Seng-ts'an:    6th Century CE
======================
The Mind of Absolute Trust

The great way isn't difficult for those who are unattached to their preferences.

Let go of longing and aversion, and everything will be perfectly clear.

When you cling to a hairbreadth of distinction, heaven and earth are set apart.

If you want to realize the truth, don't be for or against.

The struggle between good and evil is the primal disease of the mind.

Not grasping the deeper meaning, you just trouble your minds serenity.

As vast as infinite space, it is perfect and lacks nothing.

But because you select and reject, you can't perceive its true nature.

Don't get entangled in the world; don't lose yourself in emptiness.

Be at peace in the oneness of things, and all errors will disappear by themselves.

If you don't live the Tao, you fall into assertion or denial.

Asserting that the world is real, you are blind to its deeper reality;

denying that the world is real, you are blind to the selflessness of all things.

The more you think about these matters, the farther you are from the truth.

Step aside from all thinking, and there is nowhere you can't go.

Returning to the root, you find the meaning;

chasing appearances, you lose there source.

At the moment of profound insight, you transcend both appearance and emptiness.

Don't keep searching for the truth; just let go of your opinions.

For the mind in harmony with the Tao, all selfishness disappears.

With not even a trace of self-doubt, you can trust the universe completely.

All at once you are free, with nothing left to hold on to.

All is empty, brilliant, perfect in its own being.

In the world of things as they are, there is no self, no non self.

If you want to describe its essence, the best you can say is "Not-two."

In this "Not-two" nothing is separate, and nothing in the world is excluded.

The enlightened of all times and places have entered into this truth.

In it there is no gain or loss; one instant is ten thousand years.

There is no here, no there; infinity is right before your eyes.

The tiny is as large as the vast when objective boundaries have vanished;

the vast is as small as the tiny when you don't have external limits.

Being is an aspect of non-being; non-being is no different from being.

Until you understand this truth, you won't see anything clearly.

One is all; all are one. When you realize this, what reason for holiness or wisdom?

The mind of absolute trust is beyond all thought, all striving,

is perfectly at peace, for in it there is no yesterday, no today, no tomorrow.
Nothing Real can be threatened; nothing unreal exists

shaun

  • Guest
RE: Religion Thread
« Reply #229 on: September 20, 2009, 10:29:03 pm »
David K,

What are YOU trying to say with this?

Shaun

Offline David K

  • Yan Wang xxxx
  • Registered User
  • ***
  • Posts: 187
  • Reputation: 2
RE: Religion Thread
« Reply #230 on: September 21, 2009, 12:31:41 am »
:icon_biggrin: I've got this absolutely dishy doll in China, whos wearing my ring (and my heart) and I'd like it to endure - as would she. So I thought to learn more of things chinese (so she would feel at home here in NZ ), and in particular the chinese notions of spirituality. I came across this, which in my view is pretty evolved for 1400 years ago, and does give some pointers to peace.. the peace that I would like to share with my beloved... and not just now, but forever.   HTH
Briefly:
Seng-ts'an, who lived in the late sixth century, was the third patriarch of Zen in China. According to one legend, Seng-ts'an was suffering from leprosy when he met the second patriarch Hui-k'o, who encountered him with the words, "You're suffering from leprosy; what could you want from me?" Seng-ts'an is supposed to have replied, "Even if my body is sick, the heart-mind of a sick person is no different from your heart-mind." This convinced Hui-k'o of the spiritual capacity of Seng-ts'an; he accepted him as a student and later confirmed him as his dharma successor.
« Last Edit: September 21, 2009, 12:37:20 am by David K »
Nothing Real can be threatened; nothing unreal exists

shaun

  • Guest
RE: Religion Thread
« Reply #231 on: September 21, 2009, 05:18:30 am »
David K,

If your lady is  Buddhist/Taoist I can understand studying their religion to learn more about her.  If you are wanting to study things Chinese then there are great lessons on history to study.

If you break down, for the purpose of study, the poem you put in this thread there is a lot of conflict of thought. It talks about becoming unselfish and removing personal prejudice.  It is a poem of conflict with oneself.  To do as is suggested in this poem is to allow or to open oneself for what they call brainwashing.  It suggests the beginning of chaos.

Personally I cannot see how this poem would help anyone achieve harmony or peace in their life.

IMHO

Shaun

Offline David K

  • Yan Wang xxxx
  • Registered User
  • ***
  • Posts: 187
  • Reputation: 2
RE: Religion Thread
« Reply #232 on: September 21, 2009, 04:29:52 pm »
Quote from: 'shaun' pid='17391' dateline='1253524710'

David K,

If your lady is  Buddhist/Taoist I can understand studying their religion to learn more about her.  If you are wanting to study things Chinese then there are great lessons on history to study.

If you break down, for the purpose of study, the poem you put in this thread there is a lot of conflict of thought. It talks about becoming unselfish and removing personal prejudice.  It is a poem of conflict with oneself.  To do as is suggested in this poem is to allow or to open oneself for what they call brainwashing.  It suggests the beginning of chaos.

Personally I cannot see how this poem would help anyone achieve harmony or peace in their life.

IMHO

Shaun
[/i]

Hi Shaun
I guess I'm just going thru my 'fascination with all things chinese' phase.... somewhere in that 5000 years of history there is a lot of wisdom.... I've been looking thru the development of science in China and it makes fascinating reading.... smallpox vaccination at 1100ish AD for example.. and early seismographs, the compass, paper production, gunpowder.. the list goes on ... 7 A4 pages in fact, that I'm happy to EMAIL to anyone who is interested...or who has a lady that would appreciate their partner being interested :idea:

As for the poem, I guess we see what we want to see.. for me it is an early example of non dualism  (google for refs) ... The sort of "Nothing's wrong with right now until we start thinking" perspective...

Part of my motivation is the wish to share with my beloved the deeper, eternal things of life... As I've posted elsewhere, I want to take her dancing (www.ceroc.co.nz) but it would be kinda nice if we could dance together with our Souls, not just with our bodies... hence the interest :angel:

"Joy is Peace dancing.... Peace is Joy at Rest"

:icon_biggrin: David K in Auckland
« Last Edit: September 22, 2009, 12:14:27 am by David K »
Nothing Real can be threatened; nothing unreal exists

shaun

  • Guest
RE: Religion Thread
« Reply #233 on: September 21, 2009, 05:59:37 pm »
Quote from: 'David K' pid='17451' dateline='1253564992'

Quote from: 'shaun' pid='17391' dateline='1253524710'

David K,

If your lady is  Buddhist/Taoist I can understand studying their religion to learn more about her.  If you are wanting to study things Chinese then there are great lessons on history to study.

If you break down, for the purpose of study, the poem you put in this thread there is a lot of conflict of thought. It talks about becoming unselfish and removing personal prejudice.  It is a poem of conflict with oneself.  To do as is suggested in this poem is to allow or to open oneself for what they call brainwashing.  It suggests the beginning of chaos.

Personally I cannot see how this poem would help anyone achieve harmony or peace in their life.

IMHO

Shaun


Hi Shaun
I guess I'm just going thru my 'fascination with all things chinese' phase.... somewhere in that 5000 years of history there is a lot of wisdom.... I've been looking thru the development of science in China and it makes fascinating reading.... smallpox vaccination at 1100ish AD for example.. and early seismographs, the compass, paper production, gunpowder.. the list goes on ... 7 A4 pages in fact, that I'm happy to EMAIL to anyone who is interested...or who has a lady that would appreciate their partner being interested :idea:

As for the poem, I guess we see what we want to see.. for me it is an early example of non dualism  (google for refs) ... The sort of "Whats wrong with right now until we start thinking" perspective...

Part of my motivation is the wish to share with my beloved the deeper, eternal things of life... As I've posted elsewhere, I want to take her dancing (www.ceroc.co.nz) but it would be kinda nice if we could dance together with our Souls, not just with our bodies... hence the interest :angel:

"Joy is Peace dancing.... Peace is Joy at Rest"

:icon_biggrin: David K in Auckland


David K,

I was trying to figure out where your head is at with this poem.  I'm not sure what your beliefs are but when it came to that subject with the woman I am talking with quite a bit, Pinky, told me she didn't have any beliefs in religion.  So we talk about it quite a bit and she is interested in my religion.

I am a Christian but I do not assume that every western man is.  In fact we have what some might call a devout atheist on this site and I would say we are friends.  We are brothers for sure.

My goal is to treat all beliefs the same and be able to discuss differing beliefs without judgement or ridicule. So, far as the poem is concerned I find the poem in conflict with my Christian beliefs but it goes deeper than that in that I find that the poem is in conflict within itself.

I wholeheartedly agree with your statement of learning about your womans history and culture. It is important to them and should be to you because it is part of the making of who she is.  Plus there is a lot of fascinating things about Chinese history and their culture.

As you do your research I have a suggestion for you.  It would be very good for you to determine what your belief system is prior to digging into the religious beliefs in China.  You need to draw the boundaries of what you believe so that as you read about the different religions and beliefs in China or any other place for that matter.  Then you use your belief system to filter what you are reading to help determine acceptance or not.  This way you do not find yourself dragged off into something that later you realize not only do you not believe it but that you didn't waste your time in studying it beyond the system that you already have.

Shaun

David5o

  • Guest
RE: Religion Thread
« Reply #234 on: September 21, 2009, 06:57:22 pm »
David K,

Why not start a thread here on the Forum, and post these 7 pages of Chinese history for ALL to see, i'm pretty sure most, if not all will be interested in reading your material on Chinese history. I know that i will!!

David.....

Offline Buzz

  • XiuRu Zhang
  • Registered User
  • ***
  • Posts: 166
  • Reputation: 7
RE: Religion Thread
« Reply #235 on: September 21, 2009, 06:59:54 pm »
David K;

Thanks for the poem.  I find wisdom, peace, and a path to knowing my inner self from this poem.  I like the opening when it says by letting go of our own prejudices and stubborn beliefs; only then can we gain enlightenment and inner peace.  There is no road map that fits all people, and not everyone travels the same speed, but I do really like what you posted.  If you believe in the history and migration of the human race; this philosophy is close to that of the Native American Indians, which are to be related to the Chinese.  
Thanks for the post.  

Buzz

Offline David E

  • David and Ming
  • Board Moderator
  • Registered User
  • ****
  • Posts: 1,653
  • Reputation: 24
  • My favourite photo
RE: Religion Thread
« Reply #236 on: September 21, 2009, 07:13:48 pm »
Quote from: 'shaun' pid='17456' dateline='1253570377'


I am a Christian but I do not assume that every western man is.  In fact we have what some might call a devout atheist on this site and I would say we are friends.  We are brothers for sure.

Shaun


I know who you are talking about here !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!.."devout" aethiest....Oxymoron !!!!!

And you got it right...Friend/Bro:icon_cheesygrin::icon_cheesygrin::icon_cheesygrin:

DavidE
« Last Edit: September 21, 2009, 07:15:25 pm by David E »

Offline David K

  • Yan Wang xxxx
  • Registered User
  • ***
  • Posts: 187
  • Reputation: 2
RE: Religion Thread
« Reply #237 on: September 21, 2009, 08:41:26 pm »
Quote from: 'David5o' pid='17461' dateline='1253573842'

Why not start a thread here on the Forum, and post these 7 pages of Chinese history for ALL to see


Hi David - Happy to do so - But I dont seem to have the authority to start a thread, and there seems to be no cache where one can store files.
If all else fails, I'll post them here and Maxx or Arnold or someone further up the tree can shift them around as they see fit  :icon_cool:
Nothing Real can be threatened; nothing unreal exists

shaun

  • Guest
RE: Religion Thread
« Reply #238 on: September 21, 2009, 08:42:38 pm »
Quote from: 'David E' pid='17464' dateline='1253574828'
Quote from: 'shaun' pid='17456' dateline='1253570377'

I am a Christian but I do not assume that every western man is.  In fact we have what some might call a devout atheist on this site and I would say we are friends.  We are brothers for sure.

Shaun

I know who you are talking about here !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!.."devout" aethiest....Oxymoron !!!!!

And you got it right...Friend/Bro:icon_cheesygrin::icon_cheesygrin::icon_cheesygrin:

DavidE

Hey David,

Weren't you going to stay away from this thread?

Couldn't resist could you!!! :icon_cheesygrin::icon_cheesygrin:

But I consider you a good friend.  Hopefully some day we can meet up in China but you can forget about meeting in Taiwan. :icon_cheesygrin::icon_cheesygrin:

Shaun
« Last Edit: September 21, 2009, 08:45:48 pm by shaun »

Offline David K

  • Yan Wang xxxx
  • Registered User
  • ***
  • Posts: 187
  • Reputation: 2
RE: Religion Thread
« Reply #239 on: September 21, 2009, 08:58:34 pm »
Quote from: 'shaun' pid='17391' dateline='1253524710'


David K,

I am a Christian but I do not assume that every western man is.  In fact we have what some might call a devout atheist on this site and I would say we are friends.  We are brothers for sure.

In the last census in NZ I put myself down as "borne again heathen";  I have a background in science and have found it difficult to subscribe to any formalised religion :icon_biggrin:

My goal is to treat all beliefs the same and be able to discuss differing beliefs without judgement or ridicule.
My goal is to relinquish all beliefs that imply a believer and a believed, and simply experience the present/presence

As you do your research I have a suggestion for you.  It would be very good for you to determine what your belief system is prior to digging into the religious beliefs in China.  
Hmmmm... Bit late for that..see above...My head may have already irredemably turned to Jello....
I might be seeking to relax into happiness rather than struggling to fit new wine into old wine bottles  ...

Shaun

David K:icon_cool:

Quote from: 'Buzz' pid='17462' dateline='1253573994'

David K;

Thanks for the poem.  I find wisdom, peace, and a path to knowing my inner self from this poem.  I like the opening when it says by letting go of our own prejudices and stubborn beliefs; only then can we gain enlightenment and inner peace.  There is no road map that fits all people, and not everyone travels the same speed, but I do really like what you posted.  

Buzz




Thanks Buzz -
You might be interested in this - it also has an oriental origin.....
I can see I have a lot to learn from China.
And I know a fabulous lady who wants to teach me these things and more :icon_biggrin:  
-----------------------------------
Manifestations Of Mind

Everything that appears is but a manifestation of mind.

Even though the entire external inanimate universe appears to you, it is but a manifestation of mind.

Even though all of the sentient beings of the six realms appear to you they are but a manifestation of mind.

Even though the happiness of humans and the delights of the Devas in heaven appear to you, they are but manifestations of mind.

Even though the sorrows of the three evil destinies appear to you, they are but manifestations of mind.

Even though the five poisons representing ignorance and the passions appear to you, they are but manifestations of mind.

Even though intrinsic awareness which is self-originated primal awareness appears to you, it is but a manifestation of mind.

Even though good thoughts along the way to Nirvana appear to you, they are but manifestations of mind.

Even though obstacles due to demons and evil spirits appears to you, they are but manifestations of mind.

Translated into English from the original Tibetan via:
http://www.mandala.hr/1/self-naked.html
« Last Edit: September 21, 2009, 09:13:36 pm by David K »
Nothing Real can be threatened; nothing unreal exists