Religion Thread

[Vince G]

I've been to Hollywood it's real...the people are fake.

[Tiztom]

I know nothing about the bible, never read it, never will, as far as I'm concerned we evolved from primates but one thing I have observed in my life is that a person whom is born a christian usually keeps their religion to themselves unless they are with other christians.......... whereas a born again christian is the biggest pain in the ass ever because they seem to think because they have converted they must convert everyone else, I'm into fast cars but I only talk about them to other petrol heads, I don't try to tell everyone they need a 12sec car just because I have one because I know it would bore them to death, something born again zealots don't seem to understand.

[Rhonald]

Are you toying with me? Did you have a little to much church wine today?

 Why is it impossible to believe that the God who created the universe and mankind cannot believe that He cannot convince one man to write what He wanted written for all mankind to read?

I will close with this scripture passage written long before you and I ever came up with these non-original thoughts and comments.

The apostle Paul wrote Timothy, “All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, so that the man of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work” (2 Tim. 3:16)

When the claim of the power of God is used to support a stance - then why stop there. Why could God not have the words recorded that once read all would believe. Of course we are told that God's mind is so vast that we can not understand all that he has planned. But if this is the case, then we are never sure.

Once again, I see that organized religions seems to place more importance on the prophet then the God. For Christians - I need to believe in Jesus to believe in God. For Muslims - I need to believe in the word of Mohammed to believe in God. Many Catholics pray to the Virgin Mary. To be a Mormon I have to follow the preachings of another prophet. Many Buddhist pray and view Buddha as a deity.

If we can not comprehend the power of God, then maybe more revelations will be revelead, in time by other prophets.

When I took anthropolgy courses the fertility lady and the bear cult predated other religions. I for one think that if there is a God then it would be as a She not a He. This might be labled as symantics, but the way the 3 Judo-Christian-Muslim religions have feuded with each other makes me believe all 3 are wrong. They share the same God but refuse each other because of the founder of their books.

So we have more then 1 man writing multiple books about the same God. I guess this means that I do not believe God either can or at this time is willing to have written that one book.

[Danny]

So we have more then 1 man writing multiple books about the same God. I guess this means that I do not believe God either can or at this time is willing to have written that one book.

It's hard to deal emotionally with sincere people, who fervently believe that their faith is the right one. They are incredibly convincing.

So as an agnostic, it is good to remember that each religion has its own defenders and evangelists. All of them are passionately convinced that their beliefs are from God. All of them are represented by incredibly clever and brilliant men, who could just dance rings around me intellectually.

In my opinion, the sincerity of your beliefs doesn't really help someone else determine whether or not those beliefs are right or wrong.

[Rhonald]

[In my opinion, the sincerity of your beliefs doesn't really help someone else determine whether or not those beliefs are right or wrong.

I couldn't agree more with you Danny. I have come to believe that I have to travel my own path inorder to find my own way, my own beliefs.

I also find it that we are here on this site, looking for Love from a place that requires a different, or maybe yet, similar leap of faith. We are told that religion requires this leap of faith in the absense of unrefutable proof. When we are writing EMF's to our lady we are trying to figure out if she is one of the real ones or just a dream. Untill we finally make that journey across the ocean, we also require faith in our dream inorder to carry on.

I agree partially with China Shark with what brings us here to search for Love. But I choice to differ on saying we do not settle for second best, I think we just chose to settle for something different.

And as for religion, I believe in evolution, I also can believe there might be a higher power. So for me it is no stretch to believe that religion can evolve as we become more enlightened.

There was an excellent Scientific show called "The Day The Universe Changed". I always thought what a superb title. In the show, because of some new invention or understanding of scientific principle, mankind's view of the Universe changed. In actuallity, the Universe is always as it is, it is us that has changed our viewpoint. And for me, Religion has followed the same trend. If there is a God - then God has always been, it is just us that have changed in how we view God.

[shaun]

Are you toying with me? Did you have a little to much church wine today?

 Why is it impossible to believe that the God who created the universe and mankind cannot believe that He cannot convince one man to write what He wanted written for all mankind to read?

I will close with this scripture passage written long before you and I ever came up with these non-original thoughts and comments.

The apostle Paul wrote Timothy, “All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, so that the man of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work” (2 Tim. 3:16)

When the claim of the power of God is used to support a stance - then why stop there. Why could God not have the words recorded that once read all would believe. Of course we are told that God's mind is so vast that we can not understand all that he has planned. But if this is the case, then we are never sure.

Once again, I see that organized religions seems to place more importance on the prophet then the God. For Christians - I need to believe in Jesus to believe in God. For Muslims - I need to believe in the word of Mohammed to believe in God. Many Catholics pray to the Virgin Mary. To be a Mormon I have to follow the preachings of another prophet. Many Buddhist pray and view Buddha as a deity.

If we can not comprehend the power of God, then maybe more revelations will be revelead, in time by other prophets.

When I took anthropolgy courses the fertility lady and the bear cult predated other religions. I for one think that if there is a God then it would be as a She not a He. This might be labled as symantics, but the way the 3 Judo-Christian-Muslim religions have feuded with each other makes me believe all 3 are wrong. They share the same God but refuse each other because of the founder of their books.

So we have more then 1 man writing multiple books about the same God. I guess this means that I do not believe God either can or at this time is willing to have written that one book.

Rhonald you misunderstand what I was trying to convey.  The words in the Bible do not need my help they stand on their own merit.  I don't use the passage to prove my point but only to show why I believe what I believe.  

The Bible is written so that all may believe but one of the most beautiful things about God is that you have a choice to believe or not believe.  As for me it is all the same. The issue of your belief does not matter to me, well it does but I would treat you the same regardless.

As far as the need to believe in Jesus, this is what the Bible teaches and gets a lot of people mad. It may appear to you that we place more importance on Jesus rather than God but it isn't so.  There are those who do believe that but IMHO they are not accurate because it isn't what the Bible teaches.

As I have studied over the years it has been my observation that there are no new revelations.  With the teachings of God everything is consistent; now when you look at humans it is quite a different story.  You can hear them say, "well, God told me this and God told me that and God doesn't like you but He likes me."  When people start talking like that it has been my feeling that there is something mentally wrong with them.  God loves everyone; He just doesn't like what we do sometimes.

The message from God is a simple one.  Believe in Him and your will have everlasting life.  Now there is a lot more to it but the simple message is believe.  All of the other things come as you grow in your knowledge in and love for Him.

Lastly, there is no gender in God.  If there was how could man and woman be made in His image?  People over the centuries have referred to God as Him.

[Rhonald]

Fair enough shaun - well spoken.

[Danny]

being religious is not going to save you, only a personal relationship with Jesus Christ will save you.

One of the strange differences between an agnostic and a religious person is that when a religious person converts an agnostic person to their way of thinking they are happy with themselves. But for me as an agnostic person, I sometimes hesitate when I consider the possibility of trying to persuade religious people to come around to my way of thinking. Religious people often seem so happy and content. I worry if I was to take away their "comfort" they would become sad and unhappy. Sometimes when you put a religious person under pressure, by undermining the supports of their faith, they become very angry and defensive. So as a general rule, I avoid doing so. Truth doesn't necessarily make you any happier, in fact it often makes you really unhappy.

[shaun]

One of the strange differences between an agnostic and a religious person is that when a religious person converts an agnostic person to their way of thinking they are happy with themselves...   Truth doesn't necessarily make you any happier, in fact it often makes you really unhappy.

A Christian being happy with themselves? Could it be that you misunderstand their happiness.  Could it be that they are happy for the person that was converted?  A Christian who is happy for him/herself has wrong motivation.  Besides, I can't convert a single person, it is God that does the conversion.  He many use me as the vehicle but it would be arrogant for me to think that I am doing the converting.
[/quote]

Truth may not make you happy but it sure does bring peace.  Peace is far more important than happiness.  Peace can carry me through all kinds of sorrow.  I do not think I would be here as I am if I didn't have peace. I was not happy when my wife told me she wanted a divorce but peace carried me through it and I am the better for it.  God said He would give you rest or peace but He didn't promise happiness.

[Tiztom]

Peace.....BLOODY PEACE!!!!!!.....You guys are all so self righteous but look at how many wars have been because of bloody religion:@

[Vince G]

if you have not met Jesus personally ?

being religious is not going to save you, only a personal relationship with Jesus Christ will save you.

I think I know what you meant when you wrote "met Jesus personally" I hope you didn't mean literality?

As for the second part "being religious" is the basics for all I wrote on this subject. I think it is the person you really are, not which religion you are that counts.

[Danny]

A Christian being happy with themselves? Could it be that you misunderstand their happiness.  Could it be that they are happy for the person that was converted?  A Christian who is happy for him/herself has wrong motivation.  Besides, I can't convert a single person, it is God that does the conversion.  He many use me as the vehicle but it would be arrogant for me to think that I am doing the converting.

A good answer. Thanks, Shaun.

[Rhonald]

Well I did meet someone called Hay Zeus, yes he is a Mexican

[Scottish_Rob]

Guy's you l now I don't get involved in this thread very much, but, I have to get one thing straightened out...

I always thought that God and Jesus were 2 different entities!!!:s

[victor-hills]

Your a brave man rob going into this thread:angel: