Trouble in Paradise part deux

[Philip]

Hi guys,
I need some sage advice.
I was all set to get married to my lady in April. I have all the right paperwork. I am also applying for jobs in China. I have an interview tomorrow in Liverpool for a teaching job at the British School in Beijing. Good job, British wages. But the course of true love never runs smooth.
My lady suggested to me a few days ago that we might want to wait a few years???!! to get married. My initial reaction was that she was getting cold feet. She has the habit of hiding important facts from me, because she doesn't want to worry me and wants to handle them herself.
It turns out that her ex-husband has placed impossible conditions on her in the divorce settlement last December. She says that the person who instigates divorce proceedings has to pay the other party. And her ex-husband wants 500000 yuan from her. She thinks she can get him down to 120000. I think I can get him down a back alley and rearrange his face. I don't really understand what is going on, what she has signed, what the court says, whether she has to pay the money after two years, whether we can be married after that time and avoid paying this. She has only just told me. I know she has been stupid and naive in this process. She has not been sleeping, her whole family have been very critical of her, blaming her for what she is doing to me. They are normally very supportive, but they have given her a hard time. I am being supportive, telling her I am glad she has been upfront with me and saying that we will sort things out together.
I have suggested speaking with her brother, who has helped us in the past. He would probably know about the legal issues, or know someone who knows. He is more on my side than hers at the moment, even though he is her brother. But she received such a blasting from him, that she wants him to cool down before letting me speak with him. Personally, I think this needs sorting. However ill-advised she has been, I know she was doing it for us. I will try and contact him as soon as I've persuaded her.
I don't know if anyone knows the legal issues in this kind of situation, but I know her ex would not be asking for such an obscene amount of money if I were Chinese.
Much as I would love to consign the ex to the dustbin of history, there is no way I can afford, or am willing to pay anything like that amount. If I was working for Chinese wages, I'd have to work for about 150 years to earn that.
Any advice would be gratefully received. I will update you when I know more. As it stands, it looks like my third single certificate is going into the recycling.

[David5o]

Philip,

Wow!!! that's double what she was quoting for the wedding costs last time!!!
Where does she get these sort of figures from?? Do they have there own apartment, a big Merc, or some other high cost/value attributes to divide between them??  

Look, these sorts of divorce settlements just don't exist for the average Chinese Joe. You need to be among the higher middle class with wealth behind them to be thinking along these sort of terms.

If you want/need to get to the bottom of this contact the brother Philip, he seems to have his feet firmly on the ground, plus the fact you haven't much time to play around with if your talking about getting married in April.

Most divorcing couples in China just part ways, there is rarely any money settlement between them, only maybe with regard to child maintenance, or that sort of thing. Never ever heard of one buying off the other, and never heard of this sort of money being banded about for what ever reason....

Just reread your post again, and will comment that No Chinese court would award her ex hubby 500000 yuan. If the divorce went through the courts, very very few do.... the losing party will pay for the court costs, and that ain't gonna be that sort of money or anything like it....


David.......

[metooap]

Hi guys,
I need some sage advice.

I agree with David.

This amount of money seems absurd. Additionally, never heard of such a thing. Like David said, most simple part ways. If there is an issue it is about taking care of children that is about all.

So the number does not sound right, and the story does not sound right.

Seems to me there is a lot more to this situation than you are being told.

I agree going to the Brother, if you must, will sort things out pretty fast.  But it also may alienate her from you.

Bottom-line, this does not seem right.

[Sylvain D]

I don't really understand how chinese people can ask for 500 000 RMB's? It is very very lot of money... even if I have to convert in € :icon_cheesygrin:
And I don't understand how she can think to get him down to 120 000.
Maybe does she think you got lot of money ? (but I hope that's not what she can think about you)
Or Maybe does she want to have any "warranty"... i don't really know in fact.
But, maybe because of all that, she asks you to wait, because she maybe feels "upset" or "stupid" about that divorce and that she knows she may will need some lot of time to pay for the divorce... just to be with you.

Maybe isn't it a bad thing, maybe is it a way to say "are you ready to wait for me, because I will need lot of time to pay for that?"
who knows...
But anyway, you can go and ask her brother to help, and maybe some of the brotherhood could give you some more advices.

Good luck anyway and keep us updated

[JimB]

Why not take the Job and go live together.  My in laws are pretty traditional and they were ok with us living together as long as we were engaged.  If she does not go along with this, I really think something else may be behind it all.

[David E]

"Run, Forest, Run !!!!!!"



Philip.....let my natural cynicism speak for me on this issue !!!

Can you seriously imagine that any "normal" Chinese woman, going through a "normal" divorce process would sign away something between 120,000 and 500, 000 RMB ??....it is a vast fortune by any "normal" Chinese Standards........it would be a pretty big deal by Western Standards too !!

If they had huge assets together as part of the marriage...then she would be entitled to half....so where possibly can she be agreeing to PAY him this sort of money.

Before, you told us of her "request" to you for 200,000 RMB for the wedding, and now it turns into something like 120,000+  for the divorce.

Dont you see that all of these requests require you to give her mountains of money BEFORE you are married ??

I have only one view in my mind and that is.....whatever you agree with her eventually, you will have parted with a lot of money...and you would not yet be married to her.....and I am sorry to say, at this point I think she would dump you.

I even think you should be very wary of the Brother...despite the "apparent" show of being on your side, it may well be a part of this not-so-elaborate plot to scam you.

I know exactly what my Ming agreed to at her divorce...where there was 1 child involved and it was not anything like what you are describing here....it was a million miles away from such numbers !!!!

The amount of money may be appropriate for some high flying Business Magnate or Party Official...but for normal folk...ludicrous!!!

Please be careful Philip...I feel very much you are being taken for a ride.

David

[odysseus007]

My oh my ! Was she an ex-Enron accountant???

[Chong]

Philip,

Here's an interesting article that I "Google".

http://www.divorcereform.org/prcmarriage.html

And here are the fundamental laws of divorce in China ...

[maxx]

Phillip I'm going to have to agree with David E on this.Something isn't right here.200,000 for the wedding now 5000,000 for the divorce from the already exhusband.

2 things I can see here.The woman and the exhusband are working together.To try to take.You for a huge amount of money.Or # 2 The lady and the exhusband were quarrling one day.And she made him real mad after she told him she was getting married to a forignor.Then the exhusband seen dollar signes.

I heard a story a couple of years ago.Where a Phillipino woman was running a scam like this.She got to the states.got the green card.And was traveling back to the phillipines about every 6 months.To stay with her boyfriend.How she got caught was.The immagration attorney she hired.Called her house.And her American husband answerd the phone.

So the phillipino woman and her American husband had a full blown fight.He kicks her to the curb.And she goes back to the Phillipines because she had lost her free ride.And couldn't support herself.

Phillip if it was me I wouldn't even worry about talking to the ladies brother.I would just run like hell.Sorry man I just can't see any good comming from this.

[ttwjr32]

Philip,

i am sorry to hear this but from living here and talking with people there seems to be
a issue with your lady. to divorce both parties need to show up and you can be divorced
in a day here. sometimes the man or woman asks for a little money say 3000 rmb to show up
but nothing like this unless of course they are extremely wealthy here. and that money would
come out of the others share of the wealth.

now i would really seem to think that she is playing you along with the help of all members of
the family so be warry. i have heard of 2 instances like this of people who knew people who
did this to a western man and then got lost. as hard as this sounds tell your lady your not paying
this amount and i guess it is over because of this and if she is sincere then this issue will go away
although i hardly doubt it. she is i this for money sad to say. this is not normal.

take your job if you get it and you will find a lady here as you are living here. keep in mind that the
brother might be in on this so dont think he is all on your side. there are so many good ladies here
that you can meet livig here that its mind boggeling. take the job and enjoy your stay in china as
you will find it to be a great adventure and one that you would not regret.

[David5o]

Philip,

We can really only comment on what you tell us, maybe there's a lot more to your story. But based on what you have told us, she does seem to be very money orientated and that's not good, ....when it's your money she wants to acquire. These amounts she talks about are far ,far beyond her wildest imaginations in her day to day life, and the scenario's she has described in both instances really does bare no resemblance to life in China.

One can only see scam written all over this lady, based on what you have told us here!! So think about what your going to do carefully!!!!

No matter what you decide to do about all this, i wouldn't give up on living and working in China. If nothing else comes out of this relationship, it would have led you to a lifestyle that you will not regret. Your life will change completly and very much for the better. And if you do start that new life alone.... i can assure you, it won't be for long, there are so many good genuine ladies in every city in China.

Don't what ever you do get sucked in and taken for a right royal ride, Go to China in April, for yourself and use it for your own benifit ....Mainly as a prelude to that new life you were so enthusiastic about, teaching in China at a GOOD school....

Best of luck to you Philip, no-matter what or how you decide to move your life forward from this point on...

David....

[rockycoon]

Philip,
Bro, even I can see this is a setup.  First they are still married since she hasn't come up with the money.  Second, what is to stop her
from taking the money for the divorce and splitting, meeting up with her husband later to spend your money.  Third, the family
is not happy with her (as you described) but in on it with her as they make their living this way (and get a share)  Forth, they all
work together to scam you.   look up Gypsy's as that is what they do.
 
In my opinion, your being taken bud....

With a divorce settlement like that, it's like winning the lotto for them, if they are actually getting a divorce.  My advice is to cut and run
unless you won the lotto and can afford to loose a lot of money.

If you keep on going with this "affair"  all I can say is "WE WARNED YOU"

And good luck.

[ttwjr32]

seems to be the concensus here, just tell her sorry but i am going.
if she writes see what she says but i would dump her NOW to much
baggage and yes i think everyone is in on it. wouldnt be surprised if
she has a few others on the hook for money. sorry blunt but true and
someone needs to say it :fi_lone_ranger:

[Willy The Londoner]

Phillip,  If you have a land line telephone at home send it to me by PM as I only have your mobile number.  I have a phone system where I can call landlines in UK for free.   I think maybe we should talk.

I don't know if I know more than others about your circumstances with this lady or not.  We have discussed it over a pint and a meal in London.

Well I must say this latest news comes as a bit of a shock.   Is she married or is she divorced?  If she is still married you cannot marry now but from what I am hearing now if she is divorced she is saying you cannot marry now!!!

I think that there is only one way to find out if you are being played and that is to tell her that you are coming to China to live with her until such time as all these problems are sorted out.   If she backs away from that then be strict with her - tell her that if she wants to marry you now then there will be no money paid to her ex if indeed he is her ex now and that there will be no fancy wedding.   Maybe just a dinner for family and friends.    She either wants you or she wants the money and you.  Give her the choice. Let her ask for the first and she gets you and everything you bring into the relationship - if she asks for the latter then there is only one move that you can make and that is away from her and her family.

I know how much you like her but myself and Ted met a man in the British Consulate a while back and he is wishing he had not succumbed to his wife's demand.    You are going to have to be strong with her and tell her outright that it is either you she wants or your assets.  Tell her bluntly that your assets come with you after you marry and not one rmb will come before that red Book.

I am against pre nups usually as they are not common practice in the UK  but in this case I would think that having one or even just telling her that there will be one could well settle which way she will go in this case.   Whether she wants you or your assets then you are going to get an answer to the serious question you have aired.

Do not walk now -and I know that love can blind us -  but when you have the answers from her then you really have to make a decision.

Willy

[Vince G]

I've read the trend and haven't commented for a reason? I can't decide who is pulling who's leg? Are you so blind that you can't see the trouble ahead? When she first came up with the figure for the wedding, bells, whistles and flags must have gone up? I hope? But you stayed in there for some reason. And now this? What does she have planned for the future? Alimony? After she's fleeced you? I have two words for you...

WAKE UP!!!

I don't know if your a gluten for punishment? or not. You can't be that desperate or in Love with her that you let her do this to you? :@