2nd China Trip. Beijing, Is this the right Path?

[Martin]

Really enjoyed the updates Don.  Did you ever figure out of something was bothering Sha?

[zook144]

Well, it is time to try and finish my story.  I am back in the States now. Arrived last night about 10:30pm.  Slept all night and half the day today. Have one more day before returning to work.

Really enjoyed the updates Don.  Did you ever figure out of something was bothering Sha?

Martin, As a matter of fact, I think I did.  I am getting to that.
When we first arrived in Beijing, Sha got a call from work. She had forgotten to leave the key to the safe at work. So we kind of laughed at that a little. Kind of an important thing to forget. Then they called again later in the day and I guess wanted her to come in Sunday. Which meant she would have to leave Saturday. Ok, I understand no problem. she had already told me she misunderstood. Thought I was leaving Sunday instead of Monday. And she had taken all week off from work. I knew she would have to make it up somehow, so was not too upset by this.  I don't think I said before, but I had kept asking Sha if something was wrong and what was she thinking. She had told me "Mother worries". So I knew that wasn't good. So Thursday night about 12:30am her phone rings. Its mother.  I asked again if a problem she says, "Mother worried". So she gets 2 more calls within probably about an hour or so. Mother again. Then she wanted me to be quit, because we are not supposed to be in same room unless married or engaged. She says mother wants me to come home soon as possible. And asks me what she should do. Well, me being the selfish person i am, and at the moment not having real kind thoughts about "mother", I finally told her "I would like you to at least stay tomorrow (Friday) and then if you must, leave as early Saturday as you need to." She seemed satisfified with that and its what we did. So, I guess the problem is "mother". I knew family had a great impact on daughters, but her being divorced and already having a child, i did not think she would have that big of a hold on her. And I really think this is the problem. I do not think she is telling me any kind of lies. By having such a good time before and then after, this complete change. To tell you the truth it really blows my mind. I had trouble with the one mother-in-law that I did have. Always putting things in my wifes head and trying to get us to do this or live there. Didn't work then, and probably wouldn't work now. But, heck, at the time, I thought she was a nice lady.
Anyway, Friday, we continued our touring Beijing. First, we went to the Beijing Harley Davidson store. I just had to have a t-shirt with Beijing on it. And of course, several of my Harley friends wanted me to bring them back one, too. So, I spent about $300 US on t-shirts. Then we went to the Forbidden City and spent the afternoon there. Once again, a lot of  walking and more steps. Those Chinese have a thing for steps. We took pictures and saw the sights. While I was there in China, I saw 3 or 4 temples. Got so they all looked the same to me. Then we ate and went back to hotel room. Later that night, I got hungry again and was tired of hearing other people talk outside our room.  I had told you that it was very noisey in our hotel. I asked if she wanted to come with me. I was only going to KFC. She said no, you go ahead. We hadn't talked much, so I thought "what the heck, why stay here, we're not communicating much anyway." so away I went. Welll...I stayed away a little too long I guess. When I got back she was coming down the elevator  going to look for me. The next day she said she was not happy about that. That it made her unhappy. She thought I had gone wrong. I took it, she thought I got lost or something. Which could have happened very easily, as I am terrible with directions. But, then again, I didn't think it really mattered. She wasn't saying anything, only when I asked her something. Otherwise sleep and watch tv. So hey, I didn't think much about going to eat and then look around a little. The next morning before she left to go back to Handan, we went shopping at the market. Man, Everyone was waiting at the door for it to open, and it wasn't minutes until it was packed. You couldn't even stop to look at things. I stayed with her for about an hour, then she asked if I was tired I could go back to the hotel. So away I went. She came back about 12:15pm and then had to leave about 12:30 to catch the train to Handan. It was leaving at 2pm.  I put her in the  taxi, gave her a kiss on the cheek, she waved goodbye and that was it.  Needless to say, i am very dissappointed in this adventure. Everything going so well and then the complete turnaround. If things had continued as they did the first 3 or 4 days, there is no doubt, I would have asked her to marry me. But after the change, i didn't think that would be a good move. Oh yeah, I also got her to call the owner of the agency for me. She wanted to know why, and I told her. Said I needed to know why this change and couldn't get anything out of her. The owner, Echo, a very nice lady and speaks very good english. She told me Sha's mother was worried and now that the reality of my being there and this really happening was making Sha think more about it. And she was concerned about the language barrier. All legitimate concerns, but going from happy, laughing, kissing, holding hands, and so on, to going almost into a shell. I don't know. it's a puzzle to me. She knows of this forum, also the agency knows of it. Whether they moniter it or not, I do not know. But some things I will keep to myself for now. But mostly, I have given all the facts in hopes you can shed a little light on this for me. She had asked if I wrote anything on here about her. I told her I had written everything was going great. And at the time it was. So she didn't seem upset by that. I sent her an emf letter today. i had told her I would write her when I returned to the US. I basically told her I did not understand the situation. but I would and could wait a while for her to get to know me better. That is if that is what the problem is. If she keeps doing the webcams, i guess I will know she is still interested. if not, guess not.  We usually do webcams on her Saturday mornings. so if I see her then, and get a response from the emf I sent, things may be ok. Told her I liked her very much and missed her already (which I do). But I am not a kid, so if it does not work, things will go on. Spring is about here, i have a Harley to ride, and lots of pretty girls to look at. so things will go on. But I will wait awhile on Sha, to see what she says or does.  By the way, if I didn't mention it, when we visited her agency, she even told them to hide her profile. So, at the time I know she was interested.
That's about it for now. Its one of those "will just have to wait and see situations".  Am posting some pics

the family
getting a (SURPRISE) complete body massage
meeting friends
at her house
Echo & ladies at agency
in Beijing
temple Forbidden City
Don't ask, don't tell


Don

[Martin]

Wow...one hell of a story!  I don't know what to say!  It must be really confusing!

Second picture...is this the way to prevent from getting lung cancer...smoke through your ears?

[ttwjr32]

well we all hope for the best for you

good pics from the trip

let us know how it goes

[kenny]

Don

Great story, like Ted said hope it all works out the best for you.

From looking at the pics her smile seems very geniune to me. She looks very happy.

I would like to see what $300 worth of tshirts looks like. HAHA

[metooap]

Well, it is time to try and finish my story.  I am back in the States now. Arrived last night about 10:30pm.  Slept all night and half the day today. Have one more day before returning to work.

but I had kept asking Sha if something was wrong and what was she thinking. She had told me "Mother worries". So I knew that wasn't good.  I asked again if a problem she says, "Mother worried". So she gets 2 more calls within probably about an hour or so. Mother again. Then she wanted me to be quit, because we are not supposed to be in same room unless married or engaged. She says mother wants me to come home soon as possible.  So, I guess the problem is "mother". By having such a good time before and then after, this complete change.  The next day she said she was not happy about that. That it made her unhappy. She thought I had gone wrong. She came back about 12:15pm and then had to leave about 12:30 to catch the train to Handan. It was leaving at 2pm.  I put her in the  taxi, gave her a kiss on the cheek, she waved goodbye and that was it.  Needless to say, i am very dissappointed in this adventure. Everything going so well and then the complete turnaround.  She told me Sha's mother was worried and now that the reality of my being there and this really happening was making Sha think more about it. And she was concerned about the language barrier. All legitimate concerns, but going from happy, laughing, kissing, holding hands, and so on, to going almost into a shell. I don't know. it's a puzzle to me. But mostly, I have given all the facts in hopes you can shed a little light on this for me. She had asked if I wrote anything on here about her. I told her I had written everything was going great. And at the time it was. So she didn't seem upset by that. I sent her an emf letter today. i had told her I would write her when I returned to the US. I basically told her I did not understand the situation. but I would and could wait a while for her to get to know me better. That is if that is what the problem is. If she keeps doing the webcams, i guess I will know she is still interested. if not, guess not.  
Don

Don

You already know the challenge - mother. You did not speak of father so I assume father is not in the picture. If the post includes a picture of the mother with Sha's daughter (I am assuming), it is clear to see in the picture mother is not happy.

It has been my experience that early on when you meet the parents you have to sit down and talk with them. The parents want to know your intentions. They want to know what do you have planned for their daughter and her daughter. Why? Where does Sha's daughter fit in and where does the mother fit in. The parents should be given the opportunity to ask you any and all questions. These things can not be taken for granted they must be discussed.  Not only discussed but you have to get a commitment not only from Sha but the parent/s as well.

Otherwise, a problem.

I think early on it went very well because Sha was very happy to see you, and she had no worries. The worry and pressure came after meeting mother, the calls and the feedback.

Whether we like it are not - until your connection and commitment is made at a very strong level, you must go through mother and or parents -that is just the way it is.

Afterwards, and you and Sha communicate on different level - then basically you and Sha call the shots. Until then a specific protocol sets in - including the concept of face.

It is not at all lost.

But in my opinion, you have to go back and cover some ground with mother. Mother has to be given face. She has to have the opportunity to ask you questions so she can get comfortable - with this guy from the US that has come to take her daughter away.

Alton

[Arnold]

Alton , very well said .
I have alway's said , include the Parent's in the EMF's way before you ever visit China and your Girl . This can not be left to chance . If it can't be done there , it will most likely fail ... as one sort of break's down the door and take the Daughter away . Of course there is alway's the hard way .. just look at Sly .. he came through , but did it cost him a few Euro's extra and it took his Girl to get sick to finally come through to the Mother . There are not many way's to be convincing to the Parent's , so this is a ( I wont say must ) but it should be concidered very carefully before going to meet .

[JimB]

Wow...one hell of a story!  I don't know what to say!  It must be really confusing!

Second picture...is this the way to prevent from getting lung cancer...smoke through your ears?

Dinger,
That is an old wives tale of the way of cleaning out your ears.  The smoke is supposed to pull all of the wax out and even help your hearing.  It has been scientifically proven to not work though.  Some people still believe it.  I was interested in it the first time I heard about it and did some investigation on it.  I am deaf in my right ear and thought maybe it would help.

Jim and Gina

[zook144]

Well, guys.
Its 3am and my eyes are wide open. So I figured I might as well post here. I finally received an answer from  Sha to the EMF letter I wrote. And yes, its the mother. And she does think me too old for her daughter and worried about my health. Which I don't really get, but that is what Sha said. Nothing I can do about the age thing. For some reason it says her reply was delivered a lot earlier than it showed up on my computer. Kind of aggravaed about that. Because I have been trying all sorts of ways to get in touch with Sha. I replied to her letter and told her how much of an idiot I was and apologized. I knew this parent thing was important. But as I had not even discussed it with Sha before meeting the mother, I thought it a little premature to tell the mother all these plans and Sha not even hearing them yet. So that is why I did not say anything. And she said she would keep talking to her mother, but how much effort she goes about this, I do not know. I asked her to please talk to me about it on cam Saturday. That is the day we always talk. Even told her I would speak to mother at that time if she would. So will just have to see how this plays out. I am trying to recoup from my blunder.
Alton (metooap) is being very helpful as he knows all about Handan and the people there. And I really appreciate it.
Arnold, I gave her Qings email address, so she has it. I do not know if she will talk with her or not. We will see. But tell Qing I appreciate it.

I think Saturday will be a very important day in this story. It will be Friday night here in the States.
Thanks to all that posted comments.
Don

[Willy The Londoner]

I had the age problem as well Don.  They always connect age with health - just a hint of a sniff and according to Ma your heading for the box.  The women themselves were ok with it but the widowed mothers were the ones to cause the problems.   They imagined her daughter being left alone when I popped my cloggs.   Who is to say that I would be going first!!!  Hell I could live for 1 more day or 30 years who is to tell.

When I get this response I used to ask them if their daughter has a queue of other suiters waiting to take up my reigns!!!!  

It did not help at all but it made me feel better before I moved on to a new date the next day!

Being serious I do find that it is only the mothers who think like that.  The fathers only think that way when the mother is there.  

My age has not been mentioned since I married or before it by my wife or her family and I am probably one of the oldest, in age, on this forum.  

Willy

[zook144]

Willy,
My family history is of people living to a nice old age. My father passed away when he was 87. My mother will be 91 in June. My favorite aunt lived to be 99. Only missed 100 by about 4 months. And most of my other uncles and aunts lived to be well into their 80's as well. If I get the chance to talk to the mother again, that is what I intend to tell her. My family has a history of living well into their 80's and 90's. I am 57, Sha is a few months shy of being 40. Yes, it is a gap. But I did not think it unsurmountable. And evidently she did not either. And you are probably right about the sniffles. I caught a cold as soon as I got to China. The weather being windy and cold. And being out in it, sightseeing did not help. So yes, I was probably sniffling a bit.
Don

[ttwjr32]

Don,

just see how it plays out saturday and the remaining days in the future. i would not
give up nor would i push to hard. if Sha loves you then she will find a way along with your help
to have mom support the two of you

[metooap]

Well, guys.
Its 3am and my eyes are wide open. So I figured I might as well post here. I finally received an answer from  Sha to the EMF letter I wrote. And yes, its the mother. And she does think me too old for her daughter and worried about my health. Which I don't really get, but that is what Sha said. Nothing I can do about the age thing. For some reason it says her reply was delivered a lot earlier than it showed up on my computer. Kind of aggravaed about that. Because I have been trying all sorts of ways to get in touch with Sha. I replied to her letter and told her how much of an idiot I was and apologized. I knew this parent thing was important. But as I had not even discussed it with Sha before meeting the mother, I thought it a little premature to tell the mother all these plans and Sha not even hearing them yet. So that is why I did not say anything. And she said she would keep talking to her mother, but how much effort she goes about this, I do not know. I asked her to please talk to me about it on cam Saturday. That is the day we always talk. Even told her I would speak to mother at that time if she would. So will just have to see how this plays out. I am trying to recoup from my blunder.
Alton (metooap) is being very helpful as he knows all about Handan and the people there. And I really appreciate it.
Arnold, I gave her Qings email address, so she has it. I do not know if she will talk with her or not. We will see. But tell Qing I appreciate it.

I think Saturday will be a very important day in this story. It will be Friday night here in the States.
Thanks to all that posted comments.
Don

Don
Okay - you know where you stand.

None of us here no when we are going to kick the bucket. But there is something you can do. 1) let Sha know of your family history of living a long and healthy life;

2) if you talk with Sha's mother, it is probably best to do - not thru Sha but the Agency Boss and or translator either on the phone Skyp or QQ where you have a translator who can interpret for you. If you can do this apologize to the mother. Tell her your intentions with her daughter and her granddaughter, then let her ask you any questions she may have. Answer each question clearly. If you can accomplish this, I beleive things will go smoother.

Alton

[metooap]

Alton , very well said .
I have alway's said , include the Parent's in the EMF's way before you ever visit China and your Girl . This can not be left to chance . If it can't be done there , it will most likely fail ... as one sort of break's down the door and take the Daughter away . Of course there is alway's the hard way .. just look at Sly .. he came through , but did it cost him a few Euro's extra and it took his Girl to get sick to finally come through to the Mother . There are not many way's to be convincing to the Parent's , so this is a ( I wont say must ) but it should be concidered very carefully before going to meet .

Arnold

Thanks for the compliment.

I think we may be missing something here that perhaps should be shared with all.

After we have spent much time effort and often dollars to find what we think is the right person and we setup our first visit, we may be overlooking some important points that hampers our success.

There is a specific set of protocols that more often than not should be followed that will help members steer away from trouble and achieve success. Although we may not talk about them, they are unspoken -  yet there.

Sometimes as men - we may take things for granted and cause ourselves challenges. What we may see as important might not be as important as we think to our wives, fiancées and ladies.

So early on we may overlook things because we just do not know, we may be simply very excited, or we may just not have thought about some things.

Like when we initially go and see our lady have we thought about:
- what are the most important thing to her?
- have we discussed these things with her?
- why are we going to see her?
- what are our expectations ?
- what are her expectations?
- what outcome do we seek?
- how can we put our best foot forward and not in our mouths?
- what should we do - must dos?
- what more often than not should we not do?
- what are some customs and or courtesies that we might not know about but will help us navigate through the maze?
- that will help us has a group achieve success in our quest to find that special someone.

There are many things we can add to the list and share with each other to initially cut out some of the frustration and increase our success rate.

I know there are no absolute rights or wrongs. Yet if we think about some of these things that maybe we take for granted, we can help each other be better prepared to succeed.

What do you think?

Alton

[ttwjr32]

Jim,

just be yourself and the person that made Sha fall for you when you
talk with mom. to much emphasis is put on mom and tends to make
you not be yourself and gives the wrong impression. mom will see the
samething Sha did and will come around. just wants the best and doesnt
know you like Sha