Author Topic: Agency fees, commisions, hidden costs  (Read 4765 times)

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Offline Manngo

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Agency fees, commisions, hidden costs
« on: March 27, 2010, 08:23:30 am »
Hi,

This is my first post here so please forgive me if I ask something stupid.
I heard on some other places that some people are worried about agency commissions. What they described that the ladies in China sign a contract with the agents that in case of successful marriage they pay a certain amount to the agent. The payment is than expected to be paid by the man.
Is this true? If yes, how much is that amount?
I just don't want to end up in a situation that I have to pay the price of a car to an agency if I want to get married.

Thank you

Offline Willy The Londoner

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RE: Agency fees, commisions, hidden costs
« Reply #1 on: March 27, 2010, 09:32:24 am »
Welcome to the forumThere is a cost involved and all the ladies sign different contarcts with individual agencies so there is no set rule.  

One thing to remember is that these agencies are usually working outside the law when it comes to introducing Chinese Nationals to foreigners as they de not have the necessary licence to do so.      

The lady is contracted to pay anything up to 40,000 rmb on a successful marriage.   Many agencies try to get this money from the men before the marriage takes place.   Resist all efforts before marriage to part with your money. It is the lady that is contracted not you.  

It depends whether you intend to marry your lady inside China or elsewhere and whether her home town is in the same area as the agency.  Get married away and who knows you are married.

If she is traditional Chinese then she may well want to fulfill her obligations so you will need to consider this.

A Chinese being introduced to another Chinese by a match maker would be expected to pay the match maker around 3000 rmb and I think that is a fair price to pay for their service.  

My advice is to deal with your lady direct as soon as possible and do not involve the agency if you can possibly avoid it - so the agency knows little about what is happening beyween the two of you.

The agency will undoubtably want to keep you both on the reigns so that they can get the EMF money and they will know when to strike for the marriage payment.  So they will come up with many ploys like the lady speaks little english etc

You will get plenty of advice from within this forum.
Play things with care and come back here with any
concerns.

Willy
« Last Edit: March 27, 2010, 09:35:06 am by Willy The Londoner »
Willy The Lpndoner

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David5o

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RE: Agency fees, commisions, hidden costs
« Reply #2 on: March 27, 2010, 11:41:42 am »
Manngo,

These agencies may ask for these silly amounts, but that doesn't mean you have to pay them!!.  Everything involving money is always negotiable in China, never ever pay what is first asked for. Only a complete fool would cough up 40,000 RMB, or anything like it.
Offer what you think is a reasonable amount, and as near as dam it stick to it!! ...lol!!!  

As Willy advises, try to get the agency out of the communication loop/link as soon as is reasonably possible. This may be a bit of a problem if your lady doesn't have much or any English.... But the least they know of your plans the better!!!...lol!!!

David.....

ttwjr32

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RE: Agency fees, commisions, hidden costs
« Reply #3 on: March 27, 2010, 08:52:13 pm »
Manngo,

yes try and get away from the agency as soon as you can with your lady. even with
poor english speaking their are things that you can do to tackle that problem. And keep
in mind that you have to challenge that issue at some time so why not start as soon as
you can. as far as agency fees speak with your lady and see what her feelings are on that
and decide together. keep her in the loop at all times your intentions on that matter.

Ted

ttwjr32

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RE: Agency fees, commisions, hidden costs
« Reply #4 on: March 28, 2010, 08:03:31 pm »
also ask your lady what kind of contract she signed
and committed to also

Offline Willy The Londoner

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RE: Agency fees, commisions, hidden costs
« Reply #5 on: March 29, 2010, 11:04:14 am »
Has anyone ever seen a copy of an agency contract.  Be nice to have one translated to see as no doubt they are all much the same.

Willy
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Arnold

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RE: Agency fees, commisions, hidden costs
« Reply #6 on: March 29, 2010, 05:21:26 pm »
Well thanks to Vince , this is what he found a while back . Hope this is of some help ? Remember , this is just one of many other's .. as Agenies vary on Contract's and from Lady to Lady also .

 Agency Contracts
Look what I got! I am translating it hope it works.

ID number: (MY Ladies ID #)
Address: (Edited)
B: (Agency name and address)
A, B between the two sides in the basis of mutual trust, based on "Contract Law of People's Republic of China" and relevant laws and regulations, by friendly consultation on an equal footing, on the Party A Party B commissioned to reach an agreement as follows:
First, the matters entrusted to
Party B is a view of the professional qualifications of the company, Party A Party B is willing to become a member, commissioned on behalf of Party B exclusive full overseas friends to help search for the object, provided by Party B to Party A friend involved in the process of the relevant translation, information consulting services .
Second, the agreement period
Two years (that is, 2 August, 2008 onwards, to August 2, 2010 only).
Third, the cost of:
1, a total of 40,000 yuan a whole (40,000 million). The date of signing the contract, Party A to Party B to pay the cost of preparatory work for the entire total of 5000 yuan (5,000 yuan) for Party B to carry out the preparatory work, the two sides entered the process of service delivery. Party members in China and overseas to meet again before the week to meet costs to pay 5000 yuan (5,000 yuan) and the margin entire 30,000 yuan (30,000). Inappropriate, such as the two sides meet, Party B is not really been verified between the two after the deposit after three months the entire 30,000 yuan (30,000) returned to the Party and continue to provide services for the Party and no longer be charged to meet costs, straight success so far. (Engagement, marriage, or apply for registration as a successful fiancee visa) after successful termination by mutual agreement.

2, such as a unilateral contract Party A to terminate the services, Party A Party B has to pay the cost of deducting 50% service charge and as a pre-Party of the liquidated damages, the remainder of the refund to the Party.

Fourth, the rights and obligations of Party A:
1, Party A Party B should fill out this form provided by the Member registration form, and request Party B to provide personal information, proof of identity such as instruments, and to ensure that its real effectiveness. Party A Party B, such as fraud found, you can immediately terminate the service; Party arising from fraudulent acts of the legal consequences, there are Party on its own.
2, Party A to Party B can query members of the regional office information, to receive advisory services.
3. Party A Party B in its arrangements to meet overseas members should be met as each other, regardless of whether it is satisfied, should be mutual respect, speech and deportment should be about courtesy and manners; Party must be met with timely feedback to the B results. Party, once promised to meet with a third party, it should be on time to attend the appointment, a non-appointment, Party B may terminate the service, and reserve-related liability of Party A's rights (including but not limited to round-trip ticket, translation, accommodation, meals and other expenses ).
4, Party A and Party B introduced overseas members after that meeting, can not under any pretext, in the knowledge of Party B and other private exchanges, such as occurred in this case B the right to immediately terminate the agreement. Party with the men since then have taken place between the adverse consequences of any disputes or Party shall have sole responsibility.
5, making friends during the search for Party A and Party B on behalf of the friends should try to avoid the object of money exchanges, the development of rational control of emotions, otherwise, so any economic disputes, the feelings of any disputes or economic, there is the spirit of the Party of the damage alone.
6, Party A to Party B is not satisfied with the services of staff, Party B shall have the right to report or complain about leaders, Party B Party leadership has the responsibility to give satisfactory answer. However, Party B shall not be kicked up a row of office space, an insult to the staff of B. Any person who contravenes the B the right to unilaterally terminate the service. Party A Party B shall not bribe staff, Party B will be found to be expelled from the staff to deal with, and to terminate the service agreement with the Party; Party if there is a need to express his gratitude, it should be through the leadership of Party B to handle.

Fifth, the rights and obligations of Party B:
1, B in accordance with Party A collection of agreement relating to remuneration, working, and so on.
2, Party A Party B is responsible for design, introduced the English version of the individual; targeted programs to develop individualized friends; scan print photographs Member; and the signing of this Agreement and Party A Party B information received after 7 working days Party B the above data entry database. Party A Party B of the relevant information (personal data, photos, video, etc.) have the right to use.
3, Party B for Party A professional platform of international matchmaking search with the requirements of the men's match, and in accordance with your request to the male members to send a letter of intent, not to send not less than 50 months.
4, B in the life of the agreement to designate a person to engage in matters relating to work and the guidance of Party A letter written exchanges.
5, B in the life of the agreement for services provided by Party A correspondence of the free translation services.
6, B to provide services for the Party, the Party can make calls, change the correspondence Party shall promptly notify Party B, Party B and Party A three months unable to get in touch, they will be dealt with by the suspension of services, more than six months can not get in touch with the Party, then the termination of an agreement to deal with.
7, B is responsible for providing overseas members in Shenyang Party to meet the English translation services, for B at the airport is only to provide the airport in Shenyang at the airport, accompanied by, photography, photography and other services. (Then there are Party to assume the fare machines)
8, the guidance of Party A Party B for marriage visa procedures and be responsible for providing the required translation from the letter on behalf of Party B and the related image data.
Six, fair and credit:
The two sides will treat each other fairly enjoy the rights conferred by the contract and take all reasonable measures to ensure the implementation of this contract. Therefore, the two sides expressed the hope that the contract between the implementation of justice, without prejudice to the interests of any party.
Seven, the dispute settlement
1, both parties should make every effort to amicably resolve this contract arising from or relating to this contract and all disputes.
2, between the two sides as a result of an amicable settlement can not be created by this contract or in connection with this contract-related disputes, either party may apply to the relevant laws and departmental proceedings
8, the special circumstances of force majeure, etc. (majeure are like acts of god)

After the signing of this Agreement, in the performance period, as a result of earthquake, typhoon, flood or other government action can not be foreseen and its occurrence and consequences can not be the force majeure prevent and avoid accidents, resulting in a direct impact on the performance of this Agreement or the contents of the agreement can not be perform when there is a party to the above-mentioned incidents of force majeure should be immediately to the incident, such as telephone and fax a written notice to the other, and should be within 15 days to provide details of the accident and is unable to perform, or is unable to perform some, or extension to fulfill the needs of the effective proof of the grounds. Therefore the adverse consequences for both Disclaimer.

IX Supplementary Provisions
1, two copies of this contract, Party A and Party B of a bailiff.
2, and B of this contract by both parties enter into force upon signature.
Like no body

Party A: (Ladies name here) B: (Agency name here)
DATE HERE

Offline David S

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RE: Agency fees, commisions, hidden costs
« Reply #7 on: March 29, 2010, 05:35:30 pm »
Quote from: 'Arnold' pid='35711' dateline='1269897686'


A, B between the two sides in the basis of mutual trust, based on "Contract Law of People's Republic of China" and relevant laws and regulations, by friendly consultation on an equal footing, on the Party A Party B commissioned to reach an agreement as follows:



Ok, I'm NOT a lawyer, and really know very little about such things.  But I have a vague recollection from my High School business law class that goes something like: "if a contract is for something that is outside the law (illegal) then it is not enforceable."  

So if the agency is not licensed to introduce foreign nationals then it's not enforceable.  As stated in a post above though, it really depends on your ladies view of paying obligations.  I don't know how things work in China, but one of the points I'd make is that if you pay them, and they are investigated and prosecuted are you or your family going to be at risk of being on the wrong side of the law also?  But then again, I don't know if there is a RECO type law in China either.

Another point you could make to your lady if she is still wanting to pay is that; She entered into the agreement in good faith that this was a legal transaction, now it's come to light that the transaction is not legal so she is relieved of her obligation to pay; and depending how feisty she is it might also be said that if the agency hounds her and/or her family or friends she will work tirelessly to expose their illegal activity.
« Last Edit: March 29, 2010, 05:44:15 pm by David S »

Vince G

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RE: Agency fees, commisions, hidden costs
« Reply #8 on: March 29, 2010, 05:52:58 pm »
Dave, in a way your right, it's not enforceable IF they aren't licensed? This wasn't a contract I found? It was sent to me by the signer (or translator? to be investigated later). But it shows the basics, how to meet each other, etc. Even though I had given warning to paying, she said not to worry she's paying it herself. She felt it's hers to pay and she'll do it. What are ya going to do?

Offline Willy The Londoner

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RE: Agency fees, commisions, hidden costs
« Reply #9 on: March 29, 2010, 09:59:07 pm »
Your right Dave although it is not a legal contract the ladies seem have this built in need to pay it off as they agreed, legal or not.  

I told a wealthy doctor here not to pay what was being asked of her and she was quite taken aback by my suggestion.  She told me that in not uncertain terms that not only herself but her family would loose their credence (probably used this instead of face) if she was not to fulfil her obligation.  

Now this was from a well educated well read woman. So the odd one may well slip through the nets of the agency but I have also heard of relationships ending because the money was never paid to the agency or the man would not accept responsibility for it as the ladies considered he had thought them worthless!!!!

How much would your lady be worth to you?   3000, 10000 25000 or 40000 rmb?

Willy
« Last Edit: March 30, 2010, 01:28:53 am by Willy The Londoner »
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Offline Willy The Londoner

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RE: Agency fees, commisions, hidden costs
« Reply #10 on: March 30, 2010, 01:30:17 am »
Anyone got a copy of a contract in Chinese?
 
Willy
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ttwjr32

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RE: Agency fees, commisions, hidden costs
« Reply #11 on: March 30, 2010, 04:18:50 am »
Like Willy said the fee would probably want to be paid by the lady so
negotiate it with the agency. everything here is open for negotiations
at all times. but i wouldnt show a cheap face to your lady saying that
no you dont want to pay, that should have been thought of when you started
this journey to find your lady. the expense of doing it this way is not a very
cheap way to do but can be a most rewarding way

brett

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RE: Agency fees, commisions, hidden costs
« Reply #12 on: March 30, 2010, 05:24:59 am »
From what my ex lady tells me her contract was outrageous, and that was with a fairly reputable agency. Maybe she got her 0's wrong, but I was stunned by the cost, which was more than a Western marriage agency would charge :s.

Have a backbone men - you are not contracted to these agencies. You owe them nothing. Do not pay these agencies more than £300 or so. Preferably pay them £0.

Vince G

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RE: Agency fees, commisions, hidden costs
« Reply #13 on: March 30, 2010, 08:21:57 am »
Quote from: 'Willy The Londoner' pid='35741' dateline='1269927017'

Anyone got a copy of a contract in Chinese?
 
Willy


Yes Willy I have it in Chinese too. PM me your email address I'll send it along cause I can't edit the names and such to make public.

Offline Willy The Londoner

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RE: Agency fees, commisions, hidden costs
« Reply #14 on: March 30, 2010, 08:48:32 pm »
Quote from: 'brett' pid='35754' dateline='1269941099'



Have a backbone men - you are not contracted to these agencies. You owe them nothing. Do not pay these agencies more than £300 or so. Preferably pay them £0.


Read what others have said Brett.  Yes you do not owe them but! The lady has signed an obligation to pay.  It is her and her family who will lose face.  This is often enough to end a relationship.   Have a back bone and stay back home alone may well be the case!  So make sure you discuss this with the lady well before hand.  

But I agree that 300 GBP is a reasonable amount to pay as that is what a Chinese man or woman will pay a matchmaker to find them a Chinese husband or wife.   What is good for Chinese should be good for us foreigners.

Willy
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