Having some doubts...about site and lady

[Willy The Londoner]

I thought of the problem with handling card details while inside China but so I do not do it from here.  

I have used outside sources such as pay pal for many years as it takes the worries off my shoulders.   I do not get to see card details in china so neither does anyone else. But then my card payments number in hundreds rather than thousands.  

I rarely use a laptop here as I also bought a PC back here on a later trip back to UK.

Willy

[Lain]

Well everyone...I thought that I would update this thread with what appears to be good news.

I wrote to the agency with some basic requests for information and to voice some concerns. They replied in a very fast time and addressed everything that I had concerns over and then some in a very professional manner. While some small doubts still linger, I felt that at very least the communication was very positive and I had a chance to express the reasons for my doubts. To that effort I have agreed to retract some of the content of my posts out of respect for the efforts that were made. That being said time will tell and I made it clear that I have a "no tolerance" policy for fraud. I am a very trusting person and while I have concerns, I will give them the benefit of the doubt.

One of the issues that I was unaware of, and is a consideration is that the lady to whom I am communicating with actually lives very far from the agency and it is a major effort to make the trip there for a video conference. I looked it up using Google maps and indeed its over an hour and half away by car. Plus as mentioned she does not have a computer, and I did remember that she told me several months ago that she is not very good with computers so she may be uncomfortable with an internet cafe if she does not know how to make it work. I know how pissed off I can get using a Mac... I am a Linux and PC sort of guy..Gotsta have my right click menu options!

I was assured that we will work towards finding some way to have "live" communications and I am sure that it will go along way toward restoring my faith in the services. Being a computer expert (addict) I do sometimes forget that some people are not all that good with them..... like me with a baseball...its just NOT my thing. It took me 2 hours to figure out how to make a profile on the 51.com site  (Chinese Facebook) where she has a profile and I just downloaded QQ so maybe that can be a path towards this effort? Google site translation simply does not work on the 51.com site and you cant copy and past flash menu options into a translation system so it was a real learning exercise in the challenges that language WILL have moving forward.

As for the issues of family having a problem with our meeting. On this matter I think its factual. I had not weighed all the reasons that her family may not like this, and as another member here so well pointed out there is a concern that I may not be what I appear. I guess in some areas of China westerners have for lack of a better description "taken liberties" with ladies there and of course it only takes a few bad actors to ruin it for the rest of us and create a scenario of mistrust.

I am sure that these types of problems come up frequently, and being a noob at this I do believe that my inexperience in dealing with these types of issues may have shown through. Don't get me wrong, I am still keeping one eye open at all times but I am going to continue with this lady as she truly is amazing :heart:. I hope that I am one of the ones who can buck the trend and make my first visit a success.

Of course now I just need to figure out how to convince her family that I am a worthy suitor for their daughter.    :-/

[Chong]

Lain,

Glad to hear.

At some point, perhaps you may want to get her mailing address. You'll want to mail her some flowers/card/gift at some point. It'll also get you away from the agency's control of her correspondance.

Do you want to list you & your lady on the "Brotherhood List" thread

All I need is your first name, when you started communicating with her and her profile number's last FOUR digits.

[Willy The Londoner]

Can I ask you some questions?  Did Chnlove supply you with the address of the agency?  I have no doubt you receive the reply from Chnlove HK rather than the local agency that affiliates to chnlove.

Chnlove takes a lot in affiliation fees from these local agencies every year so they are not going to come down hard on any.  They will accept any reply the agency gives to them.

 Does the women live or work a long way from the agency?  Because what you were told you is fairly normal practise when they they are putting off the inevitable question.

Have the local agency actually seen this women?   How do they contact her by telephone?  Do you have a telephone number for her as she must have a cell phone?
 
Kunming to Zhongshan is quite a way by road.     Was she living in Kumning or Zhongshan when joined the Zhongshan agency?  

You should apply to the agency for her address. It costs you but it is always worth while.

The family problem is not caused by something someone has done before.  You say she is not computer literate, well if she is not then her family will definately not be.   They do not believe that you can find love from a TV screen and to most over the age of 35 that is what a PC screen is.

If I told my dad that one day a man would land on the moon he would have laughed all the way to the pub.  I could hear imagine him saying "Finding a woman through some sort of wireless wave.  Never heard such rubbish."  Wish I could do that in Chinese.

Yuyan is a farming area that is suffering a huge drought at the moment they are so so up on modern advancements.

What you really have to insist on is to receive everday photos from her not the photoshopped ones that are clearly evident on the site.  She will have dozens of her self.  Do not let her say anything different she has a phone they all have cameras on them here.

By the time you have worked your way through to 'live communications' they will have taken umpteen more dollars from you in emf's.

I really think that maybe you have opened more questions than have been answered which is usual with chnlove and sorry in your position maybe I would not be as confident as you are right now.

You said earlier on that SHE found you on the website.  If she is so poor with a computer then where was she when she found you?

  In a computer cafe that she may be frightened of using!   At the agency where she lives so far away they cannot fit up a web cam session!  How does she maintain her .51 webspace.

This all adds up to searches being made by the agency workers to find and sent the initial notes to.  You respond and they are in the money from the emfs.

Many agencies affiliated to chnlove have set their staff quota's for sending out the cupid notes and that they must stick to.

To me, your experience, is akin to exactly that.

Just wait to spend a year in Guangzhou learning Chinese.   You will have so much choice of real women on the ground, so to speak, you will be overawed at times.
 
Willy

[Lain]

Willy,

To be fair as I mentioned some of this was my own noobie knowledge of how chnlove works. Yes she contacted me with the first letter, however I did mark her as a "favorite" which I did not know until recently that when you do this the lady is notified. While I did not send here the first letter....I did in a way send a message that I was interested even if indirectly.

Yes, she does have a page on 51.com but I have read every part (that I can) and she does not keep it up. In fact most of the comments and content are about 1-2 years old, with the exception being lots of pictures....all of which I have downloaded. The page is not all that customized and after making my own profile there today..which was really freaking hard because Google translation does NOT work there I would say that she has maybe a couple days worth of work into it and most of that was uploading the tons of pictures. Which is really nice because now I can look at 5 times the amount of pictures that chnlove allows you to attach to a letter...and some of them pics are as plain as it gets to...well, lets just say I really like them. :blush: as any man with a pulse would.

As for the agency address. Here is what I did. I wrote a basic request to chnlove for a direct mailing address, phone number and contact name for the agency that handles my ladies account. Chnlove replied within 1 business day ( I made the request on Sunday afternoon) I then wrote a similar basic request to that agency for the name of the person who was doing the translations, along with a request for daily and hourly prices for a translator for when I make my trip there. I also asked about web-video conference for my lady and was told that it is offered. Not a problem....but the agency is located in Dongguan and my lady lives in Zhongshan about 98 miles away by Google maps from zip code to zip code. For a person without a car, this is what I would consider a long distance.

I do have her actual address...which oddly I was never charged for. Maybe because I did not request it until after we had exchanged letters for about 2 months. Now that I said that I am sure 2 credits will go missing? Anyway as I mentioned on my first post I did send here a gift late last month after the issue with her family came up about stopping our meeting. What made me suspicious was that after exchanging several letters she did not mention the gift....which was part of my grounds for thinking that something was not passing the smell test. That said, I did send her flowers for Valentines day and she did upload a couple pictures of them to her 51.com page and also never told me...I found them there about 2 months ago while trying to figure out how to create my own page....I gave up back then but got it this time. Trial and error, all that damn flash being used makes it impossible to translate!!!

Yes I know she has a cell phone, in fact I have lots of pics of her where she is in front of a mirror taking them with the cell phone. But honestly I have never asked for that number because she cant speak English at all....and I could maybe make an ass of myself saying something like "hello, my name is Lance" in Mandarin and that would be about a 30 second call. Besides that a phone call is not what I would call "verification" that I am really talking to her.....Could be anyone if this was a scam just like the letters.

I was assured that she can use QQ...which until I read about it here I was unaware of. On my main systems I have disabled ALL Instant Message systems and any other type of systems like it. I will install it on my laptop on a virtual drive so it runs in its own process without making any system modifications that could create any security issues....YES, I am a security freak!! But 6 years, not a single virus, trojan, remote exploit or system breaches. As a web based company security is what gives my clients peace of mind.

I just finished up another long letter to her and I mentioned that I had made a 51.com profile and that I will be installing QQ soon and I even found 2 computer cafes within walking distance to her apartment....and I even gave her the address. So, at this point I feel that I have given her every reasonable option to be able to communicate with me outside the agency....even if I can barely use the 51.com site yet, but at very least she can and now I will take a wait and see stance.

I do think the issue with her family was a major setback but is for real. So I am not going to push the matter because if this is for real, and I blow it by being a jerk about it than I have no one but myself to blame......and honestly gentleman, this young lady is beyond my expectations and I have spent my entire life searching for a lady like this. I can wait a little while longer so long as we can establish some lines of communication outside the agency for simple daily chats or picture sharing.

Based on many, MANY hours of reading here there is one common theme that I see and that is a lack of patience in dealing with problems as they arise. I am not saying that I have not made the same mistakes, but now that I have read many of them I will show some extended patience while still making sure that I am vigilant for those red flags. I did make it very clear that if any fraud takes place that I would take action and that I have a zero tolerance policy. Since regardless of the outcome with this lady I will still be traveling to China I am not above making a "personal" visit to the agency if fraud is proven in the end.....But for the time being I have been given enough support from them to feel that much of this can simply be chalked up to my lack of knowledge about just how much difference in culture and communication there really is.

[ttwjr32]

well i for one wish you the best on your trip here. if you land by GZ
then look me up.

[Willy The Londoner]

Well we have more information here which would allow me to tone down my comments a little.  The natural photo's, the information about the age on her website,  having her address etc.  

Just one other point maybe you had better clear up with her which language she speaks as many in the south speak entirely different to the mandarin in the north.  My wife could not understand hardly a word of the Mandarin I had  learned before meeting her.

But the biggest test is when you meet face to face.  She has no English so a great deal of patience will be needed on both sides.

Willy

[Lain]

Well, its been awhile and I thought I would update this post.

Sadly, I am still NOT getting any direct communication despite having setup QQ and making several requests for a chat. I get the time difference thing, but she has not even tried to best of my knowledge. I have also been given excuses like....working late hours, don't like the internet cafe because too many people smoke (which I could see to some extent) ....etc, etc....:dodgy:

Anyway, I have scheduled my trip anyway as I have several other reasons for going. She states that she wants to know when I will be coming, but will not tell me if she will be allowed to meet me??...for those who have not read the entire thread, her parents have "forbid" our meeting, which is one reason why I may request that both the agency, and this lady (if real) be removed from the chn network since the ENTIRE site is for the express reason that she is telling me she cannot perform....which is to meet, and possibly marry a man.

At this point to be very honest I have NO faith that the agency is legit or being honest with me, and am willing to bet that once I arrive the agency or she will have some BS excuse why she cant meet me...and by the way we have some "other" ladies...and waste my time & money once more.:@

Still being cautiously optimistic, but not holding my breath on meeting with the lady whom I have been conversing with. As I mentioned on another post, in my business I have had to close some business deals with Chinese firms in the past...and being deceived (lied too) just seems to be part of the culture......Let's hope that my prior experiences are not reinforced once I get there.

Anyway, I will be getting into Guangzhou late on the 27th and will stay in the "big city" for 5 days, then drop down to Zhongshan for the remaining 5 days....So if anyone from this site will be there I would be interested in getting together for some "real world" advice and chat about living in China. My trip will involve checking out a language study school in Guangzhou and checking out some apartments in both cities. Amazing price differences from one city to the other for apt rentals!

[mustfocus]

Hi Lain,

I take offense to the part where you say being lied to is part of the culture.  Just because you've had bad dealings with some unscrupulous people doesn't mean everyone is like that.  Yes, you have been lied to and I would recommend you do not use chnlove, but do not tar the entire culture with the same stroke.

And note, EVERY culture/society has people like these... I don't think anyone would appreciate they get tarred with the same feathers that the bad people in their group...

That said, try other sites before you leave like blossoms or CLL...maybe your luck will be better there. No translators needed, although you may have some issues communicating directly.

[Willy The Londoner]

Or wait a few more weeks and listen for the news.

Willy

[rockycoon]

Lain,  Just a note about your gift to her.  I have several pen pals there and was told by both that to recieve a present from
one of us is a sign of marrage, and they will not recive it or let anyone know about it.  I explained that in America it is common
to send a friend a gift and they both understood at once that it was our custom.  So she might have taken the gift wrong.  You
should explain to her that its a custom only - nothing else.  I am sure the brothers here will explain it to you better.  And you
may be talking to a translator, this has been a problem for the brothers here.  But there are guys that have experence here on
that subject.  You get letters, phone calls, and pictures all to keep you spending that money.  I've been there, done that, so buyer
beware.  Best of luck and welcome to the forum.  Keep us posted, glad to have you.

[Willy The Londoner]

I should hold fire for a couple more weeks.  There may be some news on reputable and ethical agency by then or at least by the time you get to Guangzhou or Zhongshan at the end of this month beginning of next.

Willy

[Lain]

Points taken...Maybe I should quantify my remarks by stating that there may be a cultural difference on making "agreements" or communicating in a straight manner. As a technical person who does not like to be led around in circles when communicating I get inpatient when basic questions cannot be answered or addressed with some degree of clarity. I was not intending to paint a broad brush on the entire culture per-say, but there are real differences in HOW people communicate (at least in business) and even written agreements seem to be constantly open for negotiation after they have been signed. I hope my experience is the exception and if anyone took offense to my wording or explanation than I am sorry. I am a very understanding and patient person, however I am also a person who calls it like I see it....and in my world, withholding facts is akin to lying.

As I also stated, part of my trip is to see it in person, up close with everyday folks...Maybe its just my experience with the "business culture"...but this agency has merely re-enforced that perception and while I may be wrong?, I have a feeling that at some point my communication with this lady ended, but the agency simply took it upon themselves to stand in her place and get paid. There was a point in which the style and content of the letters dramatically changed and they have done nothing to dispel my doubts.

And yes, I have a handful of chnlove credits left and once they are gone...that's it!! So far it appears to be a complete waste of money and again, simple basic questions get replied to with nonsensical answers and excuses. That is why I am making plans to simply see it for myself and if all goes well the information I gather will allow me to make plans to spend a year living there. Where I will be able to meet, and build a relationship in person the old fashioned way.

[David E]

I can but give you some more facts about your situation....as indeed it happened to me !!

I went to meet Ladies from the CHNLove Agencies 5 times....and each time got the same deal...the person meeting me was NOT the person I had been communicating with......

When I complained to the Agencies I got the same drivel........."the Lady you were interested has...disappeared, gone cold, died, found somebody else, gone away on Business, on holiday, got a sick Mum/Dad/Uncle/Aunt"....etc, etc, etc...BUT, we have many nice Ladies here and would you like to meet Ms...XXXXX....blah, blah,blah !!!

I gave the whole thing away as too difficult...and then I found this Forum and got to understand what a goose I had been by not doing it right in the first place !!!

I had a contact from a lovely Lady on Blossoms...and in the first contact she gave me her personal email address.

After 2 emails between us SHE invited me to meet her on QQ.......which I did.

This lady has always been EXACTLY as she represented herself...no photoshop, no translator fluff, no lies, no deception.....no cost to me !!!

Within 3 months of our first contact, we met in person in her home town of Chengdu.

The rest, as they say, is history :icon_cheesygrin::icon_cheesygrin:

So get knotted CHNLove, with all your hooks and traps for Western Men to continually bleed us for EMF's, to continually and deliberatlely to mislead us and defraud us over the "so-called" women we are "allegedly" communicating with. And goodbye to your photoshopping malpractice as well !!

The message ??.....CHNLove maybe is the largest and easiest trap to fall into when looking for a Cjhinese wife...but the last thing they care about is YOU. There are other sites, more difficult to negotiate, more prone to contain potential scammers...but at least "what you see is what you get"

So Lain....nil desperandum...there are thousands of wonderful Ladies out there...you need to get a bit creative and find the special one for you.

When you find her...it is a life changing moment.

David

[Chong]

As I also stated, part of my trip is to see it in person, up close with everyday folks..

That is why I am making plans to simply see it for myself and if all goes well the information I gather will allow me to make plans to spend a year living there. Where I will be able to meet, and build a relationship in person the old fashioned way.

Lain,

That's the best plan given that you have the 'time'. I went through the same situation as you. I came to Taishan and met many ladies face-to-face ... and eventually, my wife. Lucky for me, I can speak the local Taishanese dialect.

How's your Cantonese/Mandarin  Network as much as you can in GZ. I met my wife through her uncle through his friend AND through his friend who was a security guard at my hotel. Make it known that you're searching for a GF/future wife. You'll also find that women will be attracted to you like a magnet because you'll stand out.

Have a good trip ... All the best.