As we didn't have enough to worry about ?

[ttwjr32]

Paul,

now that was an interesting funny story that could still happen today. even my wife laughed at it.

now wouldnt it be interesting if China implemented  MDS sheets for eveything  that would be
something.

[Paul Todd]

I think that's a long way off yet Ted
As we didn't have enough to worry about, after his stay at the Swan Hotel his visit to a Chinese factory was also an eye opener

The name of the factory was Harbin Tractor Works. Actually, Harbin's tractor didn't work... not very well, anyway. After nearly thirty years of working for the world leader in quality earthmoving equipment, I was shocked beyond belief at the product the Harbin Tractor Works was turning out their back door. I'm sure I will never be able to find the words to describe properly what we saw. However, I will try.

We first toured the sheet metal department... the place where they make fenders, hoods and such. The impression that sticks in my mind was the rust. Every piece of metal in the huge room was covered in heavy rust. The floor was covered with trash, scrap parts and a maze of acetylene torch hoses and sledge hammers. There were no presses. There were no dies. This was definitely a "Heat and Beat" shop. The next impression that has stayed with me over all these years... no two parts were the same. In fact, they were so different, they could not be stacked.

The frame area came next. There were no holding fixtures for the weld fabrications. The welder held the different parts in place with C-clamps or by hand as he welded them together. Nothing was measured. Also, as in the sheet metal department, every part was covered with rust. There was no evidence of any engineering drawings. There was no evidence of any weld procedures or assembly instructions. I was told that these welders had been doing the same job so long that they knew where each of the different parts goes. I noticed the size of the welds ranged from 1/8 to 3/4 of an inch... in the same joint. Therefore, the frames were warped and deflected in every direction. Because of this, they had a number of straightening presses where the operators tried to get the frame back in some dimensional conformance. This didn't work very well.

In the assembly area, there appeared to be no logical order of things. Similar parts were all over the room, as three or four workers tried to find pieces they could fit together without too much banging and cutting. Since no two parts were the same, this process sometimes took several minutes before compatible parts could be found. Rust was still the favorite color. I watched as they installed the tires on one unit and pushed it to the next area to have the engine installed. The tractor listed to the left, the right side at least four inches higher than the left. When I questioned our guide, he informed me this was a normal condition, that this would have no bearing on the function of the tractor. Function being the key word here.

Our next stop was the paint shop. If I hadn't seen it with my own eyes, I wouldn't have believed it. The tractors were being painted by hand... with a brush... over the rust... with no masking tape... by girls wearing dresses and high heel shoes. The body of the tractors was bright red and the tires and wheels were painted black. There were no decals. There was no chrome. The seats were made from thin plastic that had torn and cracked, revealing the dried grass that had been used for stuffing. In short, the units looked as if they had been made in a back yard garage by ten year olds hoping to win the derby. No two units looked the same.

The test area revealed my worst fears. The tractors performed terribly. If the unit was fortunate enough to be started, it was driven to a pile of loose dirt where, now get this, six workers filled the bucket with dirt using long handled shovels. Then the bucket was slowly raised. Once it attained the proper height, the tractor was put into gear and driven thirty feet away to another dirt pile. It was stopped, and the bucket was dropped, dumping the load. If the tractor completed this test, it was driven over to the shipping department.

"May I offer a suggestion?" I asked the head of the test area. "Why don't you have the operator lower the bucket, drive into the pile of dirt to fill it, and then lift it and go to the dump pile? Why do you have the workers filling it by hand?"

"We have ample hydraulic power to lift the bucket. We have ample hydraulic power to move the machine from one place to another. We do not have enough hydraulic power to do both at the same time."

"Oh... well... okay then."

What we observed that day was typical of similar factories all over China, although there was a few who did some things better. The factory leaders were told how many units to manufacture each month by the government. Then they were loaded onto rail cars, and the rail cars disappeared. The people who built the machines had no idea where they went nor who the users were. They had no feed back from the user, thus they had no idea how the units performed or what idea what they liked or dislike about the tractors. There was no such thing as warranties.

 Now we knew why the Chinese government was willing to pay our company a substantial amount of money for a transfer of twenty year old technology. They wanted to learn how to make tractors that we made twenty years ago. If successful, they would have advanced their own manufacturing by fifty years. I knew one thing for sure. It wasn't going to happen over night... and I would end up making several trips to China. At that moment in time, I wasn't sure if I liked that idea or not.

[Rhonald]

Great story Paul. Keep the flow of words coming as we are all pulling for you 

[Vince G]

Paul, (wait a second... so I can pick my jaw up off the floor) I can't understand why anyone (even in management) hasn't thought how to speed up production? Like having presses, or jigs for the welding, etc? And the painting? Come on! Even the last house I did remodeling I had sprayers come in.

[maxx]

Vince they have a huge labor pool there.If it is a government run factory.They have to put the masses to work.So if it takes a couple of girls wearing dresses and high heeled shoes so be it..It is the same in every grocery store I have Ben to in China.There are at least three people standing at the end of a isle.Waiting to assist you.Every grocery store I have Ben to in China.Their is usually more employees.Then they are customers.Restraunts and massage parlors Are the same way.If you don't have 6 waitresses bringing you food and drink.And waiting on you hand and foot.There is something wrong.

Most companies in China.Have way to much help.It has nothing to do with efficiency or cost cutting measures.It is called keeping the masses employed and happy.If your unemployment rate is to high in a communist country like China.The other countries give you a hard time.And the masses began to get angry.Because there is no work.Then the next thing you know.You have Revelation in the air.Beijing can't tolerate anymore revolts.So having to many employees.Has become the normal opperating procedure.

As far as the quality of the tractor.those tractors are not for export.They will probably be used by the military or the government.If a farmer does get a hold of one.Who is he going to complain to?The government? The company that built the tractor?All they are going to do is tell him there is no warranty.So he is stuck with it.
Last time I looked.I didn't see any John deers.Ore any other western made tractors.So I don't think that they import very many.Their fore there is no competition.


As for having welding jigs.and the proper equipment.To do the job right.That is a luxury item in China.And it costs money.Money that the company owner.Or the government cannot stick in There pockets.Most government companies.And some of the private companies operate with a huge overhead.Along with all the regular bills.You have to pay to own a company. If you own a factory in China.Ore a restraunt.You are obligated to feed.And house your employees.I don't know how much of the profit that takes.But I would imagine that it cuts into your profits allot.

[ttwjr32]

Maxx,

the massage parlors have to many people working? mmmm does you wife know that you know this lol lol!!!!!

[maxx]

Yes Ted she Does.My wife and her friends are the ones that take me to them.There is a real high dollar place in Zhongshan.It is probably the best foot massage.In Goungdong province.You should ask Willy he can probably tell you where it is.

I don't know about the other kind of  massage parlors in China.Ted maybe you can enlighten us.Since you Willy and Shaun are always talking about Viagra.I think while your wives are working. You all are visiting the other kind of massage places.Come on Ted.Do you have something to tell us.

[ttwjr32]

dont use the stuff sorry to inform you just buy for willy and shaun. its a well known fact they are all over the
place here and ktv have bed rental rooms also. they just shut one down by the garden hotel. more prevelant
in the smaller towns

[RobertBfrom aust]

Paul's last post was a follow on from the first talking about 1980's , glad things have improved since then , regards Robert.

[ttwjr32]

I used to get frustrated by this but now im just amused with these two things

1----- people in business stop what they are doing to answer there cell phones or texts and then resume
          waiting on you
2----- if your in line and someone else asks a question they move on to answer that then come back to help you

these used to drive me livid but i see its just the way it is and now im used to it

[shaun]

Wow, did anyone get the tag number of that bus?  ya'll is just brutal. 

[ttwjr32]

we blew the horn??  lol!!!!!

[Vince G]

I understand keeping many people working and this could be done in updating production also. If presses and jigs are used the cost (material) is less. They may have to pay for the press but put against the cost of the propane they use to heat the metal to pound out? A jig would have a lower welding cost. Same with painting, spraying the paint uses less paint then brushing. For me finding a easier/faster way of production is second nature. I've done it all my life. It gets noticed when I give suggestions on a job. Which is the reason why I almost always make a supervisor position in three months time. Ah the good old days....

[Rhonald]

Researchers concerned by gender-bending fish Module body

Thu Jul 29, 9:55 PM
 

By Shannon Montgomery, The Canadian Press

CALGARY - Alberta researchers say gender-bending fish swimming in the province's southern rivers raise serious questions about whether the water is safe for people to drink.


Two University of Calgary professors have been studying how a small species of minnow reacts to a wide variety of hormone-altering chemicals detected in several rivers.


They found sexual changes both in the wild populations of the fish and under controlled lab experiments with the same chemicals, said co-author Hamid Habibi.


He said while it's not known whether the levels are high enough to hurt humans, there is a possible risk the chemicals could increase cancer rates or developmental abnormalities.


"We think there's a health concern," he said Thursday. "We'd like to be able to predict these things and reduce that kind of risk."


In some locations, female fish accounted for as much as 90 per cent of the minnow population, far higher than the normal 55 to 60 per cent.


At many of the sites studied, male fish showed elevated levels of a protein normally high only in the blood of females. Other areas have produced male fish with female eggs in their testes.


Habibi and co-author Lee Jackson found a large variety of chemicals that affect hormones in the water. They include synthetic estrogens, such as the birth control pill and bisphenol A — a chemical used in making plastics — as well as agricultural byproducts.


The disturbances in fish populations were greater downstream from cities than upstream and were most notable around several major cattle feedlots.


One area of high concentration was interrupted by a normal region where the river is joined by several tributaries from Waterton National Park.


The researchers managed to replicate many of the changes in a lab environment by combining the chemicals in the same ratio as found in the river.


They also discovered that while a single chemical might affect a fish one way, the combined effect with another chemical might be much greater than expected.


In one case, two chemicals might each have a one-fold effect on a fish, while in combination the effect might be nine times bigger.


"The potency of these chemicals improves significantly if they are present in a mixture. That is new information," said Habibi.


"Which means some of the data used by Health Canada and EPA (the Environmental Protection Agency in the United States) may need to be revised, because they're based on individual studies for those chemicals."


Jackson said most wastewater treatment plants don't get rid of many of the chemicals.


The researchers have partnered with the City of Calgary to begin work at a new treatment plant investigating how engineering can keep the chemicals from flowing back into the water.

He said it's too early to tell whether the current levels in water might have anything to do with a rising trend of cancers that are under hormonal control, but he added that a possible link should be studied.

"I think we need to look at this a little more carefully and ask, what is the message the fish are telling us," he said.

"If the fish are showing bent genders and people are drinking the same water ... we need to try to evaluate that risk."

Part of the research is to be published in the journal Environmental Toxicology and Chemistry.

[Paul Todd]

Evolution is being distorted by pollution, which damages genitals and the ability to father offspring, says new study.
The male gender is in danger, with incalculable consequences for both humans and wildlife, startling scientific research from around the world reveals.

The research  the most comprehensive report yet published – shows that a host of common chemicals is feminising males of every class of vertebrate animals, from fish to mammals, including people.Backed by some of the world's leading scientists, who say that it "waves a red flag" for humanity and shows that evolution itself is being disrupted by "gender-bending" polutants.It also follows hard on the heels of new American research which shows that baby boys born to women exposed to widespread chemicals in pregnancy are born with smaller penises and feminised genitals."This research shows that the basic male tool kit is under threat," says Gwynne Lyons, a former government adviser on the health effects of chemicals, who wrote the report.

Wildlife and people have been exposed to more than 100,000 new chemicals in recent years, and the European Commission has admitted that 99 per cent of them are not adequately regulated. There is not even proper safety information on 85 per cent of them.Many have been identified as "endocrine disrupters" – or gender-benders – because they interfere with hormones. These include phthalates, used in food wrapping, cosmetics and baby powders among other applications; flame retardants in furniture and electrical goods; PCBs, a now banned group of substances still widespread in food and the environment; and many pesticides.

Fish, it says, are particularly affected by pollutants as they are immersed in them when they swim in contaminated water, taking them in not just in their food but through their gills and skin. They were among the first to show widespread gender-bending effects.Even more ominously for humanity, mammals have also been found to be widely affected.

Two-thirds of male Sitka black-tailed deer in Alaska have been found to have undescended testes and deformed antler growth, and roughly the same proportion of white-tailed deer in Montana were discovered to have genital abnormalities.In South Africa, eland have been revealed to have damaged testicles while being contaminated by high levels of gender-bender chemicals, and striped mice from one polluted nature reserved were discovered to be producing no sperm at all.

At the other end of the world, hermaphrodite polar bears – with penises and vaginas – have been discovered and gender-benders have been found to reduce sperm counts and penis lengths in those that remained male. Many of the small, endangered populations of Florida panthers have been found to have abnormal sperm. Other research has revealed otters from polluted areas with smaller testicles and mink exposed to PCBs with shorter penises. Beluga whales in Canada's St Lawrence estuary and killer whales off its north-west coast – two of the wildlife populations most contaminated by PCBs – are reproducing poorly, as are exposed porpoises, seals and dolphins.

Dr Pete Myers, chief scientist at Environmental Health Sciences, one of the world's foremost authorities on gender-bender chemicals, added: "We have thrown 100, 000 chemicals against a finely balanced hormone system, so it's not surprising that we are seeing some serious results. It is leading to the most rapid pace of evolution in the history of the world. Professor Lou Gillette of Florida University, one of the most respected academics in the field, warned that the report waved "a large red flag" at humanity. He said: "If we are seeing problems in wildlife, we can be concerned that something similar is happening to a proportion of human males"Indeed, new research at the University of Rochester in New York state shows that boys born to mothers with raised levels of phthalates were more likely to have smaller penises and undescended testicles. They also had a shorter distance between their anus and genitalia, a classic sign of feminisation. And a study at Rotterdam's Erasmus University showed that boys whose mothers had been exposed to PCBs grew up wanting to play with dolls and tea sets rather than with traditionally male toys.

Communities heavily polluted with gender-benders in Canada, Russia and Italy have given birth to twice as many girls than boys, which may offer a clue to the reason for a mysterious shift in sex ratios worldwide. Normally 106 boys are born for every 100 girls, but the ratio is slipping. It is calculated that 250,000 babies who would have been boys have been born as girls instead in the US and Japan alone and sperm counts are dropping precipitously. Studies in more than 20 countries have shown that they have dropped from 150 million per millilitre of sperm fluid to 60 million over 50 years. (Hamsters produce nearly three times as much, at 160 million.) Professor Nil Basu of Michigan University says that this adds up to "pretty compelling evidence for effects in humans".