Comment made on the thread-These Chinese women

[Mikael_Shim]

I´ve just read through this thread and what i want to say may offend someone, or some.

But i would 1. Like to ask the author of this thread, if you ask yourself and look inside yourself. Does the core question you ask really pose such a concern to you that you need to ask others opinions? I would think to any sane man with sincere intent, there wouldnt even be a question. This is so simple , logical and self explanatory. A man of your age and experience would know the meaning of the word empathy.

I can understand you, or anyone else would want to keep a "backup" just in case it would proove you have been exchanging loveletters with a translator for 6 months and not a real lady. Sure... but hey wake up, you think this is a game ? Chances are great thats real individuals with real feelings on the other end. This is not a game, and its not a petstore.

Simple rule, and if anyone would say differently then i will be happy not to befriend him or her. Dont ever start a relation with a lie. Sure there is a difference between not telling the whole truth, and outright lying. But its a thin line.

Moreover, without mentioning any names. I have by now more or less read the entire old forum as well as this one, so a few names and characters stand out as more vivid then others. There are some people here trying to give you advice making it sound like they are "experts" in the field, when truth is. They have never even been to china or met any of the ladies they have conversed and had "virtual" relationships with.  I say without mentioning any names because if anyone reading this feels offended, then i probably meant you.

You were born with a few gifts ,  a brain and a heart amongst other things. Use them


And if i by any chance or mistake offended anyone by what i said that feels it was out of line. Drop me a PM before turning the thread into a bashing party.

My opinions, my thoughts.

[Martin]

Moreover, without mentioning any names. I have by now more or less read the entire old forum as well as this one, so a few names and characters stand out as more vivid then others. There are some people here trying to give you advice making it sound like they are "experts" in the field, when truth is. They have never even been to china or met any of the ladies they have conversed and had "virtual" relationships with.  I say without mentioning any names because if anyone reading this feels offended, then i probably meant you.

I'm not sure where this fits into this thread.  There are some who have never been to China, and yet have been with us since we first started on Facebook.  I can think of one member in particular who gives advice, and has never been...yet the information he gives, comes from the experience of being with this group since the beginning.  He, like others, have read all the information, and is "recycling" the information to newer members.  Insulting these members is not what we are about on this forum.  Nobody is better than anyone, just because they have been to China.

[Mikael_Shim]

Martin, i think you misunderstand abit what i was saying, and for the very same reason i did not mention any names and threaded lightly on the subject while stating it may offend someone. Im also closing by saying it is my thoughts and my opinions. Thats not insulting in my opinion, but i guess everything is relative to one and each individuals own mind. You also know that opinion varies vividly amongst the members here. So that can hardly be a just and "correct" foundation for someone to build an experience other then virtual upon. And in the end, like i said. opinions vary here. Not all think just black or white, there is much between and one and each builds their opinions individually. But nothing you experience or think you know from online experience is the same as it will be in real.

I might sound abit over the limit, but i have just aquainted and talked to a woman in China who is so heartbroken and destroyed she almost sees no point in life because she was not treated with any respect or dignity at all by a man who had no respect for her at all as a human being. Like i aimed before, this is not an online game for recreational purpose. And i strongly withstand that in my opinion, the core subject should not be a question if you are sincere and have more then selfish intent.

Again, if anyone feels unjust offended by my words. I have already welcomed to PM me rather building a Zoo out of the thread.

[Vince G]

Moreover, without mentioning any names. I have by now more or less read the entire old forum as well as this one, so a few names and characters stand out as more vivid then others. There are some people here trying to give you advice making it sound like they are "experts" in the field, when truth is. They have never even been to china or met any of the ladies they have conversed and had "virtual" relationships with. 

Sorry for going off track but Mikael, I don't see what your getting at. The statement is illogical. If someone hasn't been to the north pole he can't advise which way north is? So as if someone hasn't been to China he can't advise about a woman? according to you he hasn't driven a certain vehicle so he shouldn't advise about traffic? What does this have to do with the topic?

[Martin]

Again, if anyone feels unjust offended by my words. I have already welcomed to PM me rather building a Zoo out of the thread.

I split the thread, so the original thread is not hijacked.  No sense going to PM when you opened up the can of worms on the open forum.  People should have the opportunity to say their piece on this thread, so we can get all views out in the open.

[Jimmy]

Maybe I am just as insane as Mikkie. Or smart call it what you wish. I understand exactly what he wanted to say. and I agree with him.
And thanks Martin you are very correct. Everyone has an opinion and should have the right to share it.

And for Mikkie well some guys know what they are talking about and some don't.  Some advice will be good and some won't.
And like with Scotts ladies interview. Sometimes things change but most are just not aware yet. and then someone finds out and we all know again.
After you been here awhile longer you will decide who you like to read. and who you will ignore. it really is as simple as that.
You are right sometimes a guy will have no idea what he is talking about it happens from time to time. Nobody has all the answers, and nobody is always wrong.
It's all just information for you to use, to try and help you make a good decision when you get stuck. And everyone gets stuck sometime or another.

[Philip]

So much of what goes on at this forum is sharing information and feelings about our own personal experiences and hoping that it has resonance and usefulness to others. What qualifies us to to express our opinions? Well, being a human being, living in the world, having lived through marriages, divorces, having children, having parents, having children. We cannot know each others minds and hearts, but we do have something called empathy - definition - "Empathy is the capacity to, through consciousness rather than physically, share the sadness or happiness of another sentient being."
Did Shakespeare ask permission before writing great female characters? No. He was a man. How dare he write about how women feel?
To use a crude analogy, some people search through a barrel of tits and end up picking their nose. Similarly, some people, even on this forum, go to China and seem to know even less about China when they return. Equally, some people who have never been to China are endowed with the empathy and the just plain old good sense,  to ask the right questions and to give us the benefit of their wisdom to help people when they most need help. In my opinion, most of the difficulties people have are in the realm of human emotions. Maxx's 24 hour rule is not just narrowly limited to China. It can be appplied universally. So, empathy is the valuable commodity in this forum, not whether you have a Chinese visa stamped in your passport.

[Mikael_Shim]

Like i said, after having pretty much read everything said on both forums. Some people seem to think they are experts in the field without having ever experienced the field.

What you say Vince, i partly agree but i also disagree to. Because its illogical believing you would be a good F1 driver because you have seen every race that ever occured on Youtube and hanged out in all related forums. Yet you have never sat in a F1 car. Or you think you could apply for position as lawyer because hey, you know the game. You have seen every single episode of Law And Order and you have a knowledge passed on to you by hearsay or by spending your time in a virtual fictional world that is proportionally as big as the universe. Or maybe you simply know everything because you know more then MC Gyver does. Because not only have you seen all his moves over and over, you have also collected every tips and trick you could read about in cyberspace. While in fact you have never changed a lightbulb in reality. I could make a million seemingly stupid comparisions, but they are all the same in the end. So explain to me the difference if you beg to differ

Yes.. i think it makes a difference. This is not the same as real experience. And anyone who met, and romanced counterparts online and went all the way from ones and zeros to flesh and blood knows in real its not the same. It doesnt have to mean its better or worse, feelings and intentions may very well remain the same but the the experience is not. This is something you have to experience to fully understandPersonally, i cant recall i have ever given advice at all that have not had any roots from my own real experience, or someone very close to me. It seems abit profound actually to do in my opinion. Suggest perhaps at best.

Making a comparision that someone would be worth more or less because he did this or that , i dont know where u got that as an "similarity" from Martin. But im sure you would rather leave your car for service at an experienced repairshop and not to the guy who never drove a car, or even looked under a hood in reality but has read every repair manual the world has to offer. 

Reality beats fiction by far,  And real life experience cannot be substituted truly or sincerely by the mere means of reading and hearing things .... On the internet

[Rhonald]

I am walking in a strange city trying to find a certain address. I stop a passerbye and ask if he is a local. He replies that he is. I show him the address but he is confused and does not recognise it. I whip out my phone and call a friend in my home city and ask him if he is on the computer. He say yes and I give him the street address I am at. He pulls up google map and identifies where I am and then sees where I have to go. In a short time of saying turn left turn right I reach my destination.

Now guess what, my friend has never been in this strange city but he could help me get to my destination without ever venturing outside. The local who has experience could not help me.

Just last week from work I attended an inter-personel-skills course. One exercise we partook in was to answer a series of survival questions, first individually then as a group. Well out of the 5 groups we had, the survivability chances increased when we used a concensus approach. None of us were experts but as a group we fared better. So this site caters to newbees & so called experts to be a repository of information. Heck you have also and already contributed with you IT expertise so I say anew..... welcome to this humble group of romantic, sometimes bumbling fools who love Chinese women.

[Philip]

You don't have to be an expert to express a useful opinion. You just hope that the person receiving it is adult enough to sift through it and find something useful in it, whether or not that opinion comes from the direct, "real" specific experience or not.
If a man was drowning and asking for help,  I wouldn't think, well, hold on, I wouldn't dare to give you advice, not having been in that specific situation myself. So, I'll pass. Let me find someone who has nearly drowned before. They'll know what to do. Giving advice rooted in our experience is all we can do. Hell, it's all we ever do. Sometimes the advice is really bad. The good ones often acknowledge their lack of "real experience", as you put it.
I am married to a Chinese lady, have been through all sorts of Chinese-style tribulations over the past year and a half. But does this make me an expert? Hardly. This is my first marriage. I have no children. So if you want Chinese marriage advice, my "real" experience isn't that useful. Vince, however, is in a far better position to advise you. The roots of his experience are far more "real" than mine. Why? Well, take away the geography, and what remains? Someone who knows about people, who has been there and bought the T-shirt. I would take that every time over someone who says, 'Well, I've actually physically visited, so my opinion must be worth more'.
But, luckily, we have the luxury of a range of opinions here. People who've been to China and succeeded. People who've been to China and failed. People who've been to China and learnt nothing. People who've never been to China and know a lot about people and China. People who've never been to China and know nothing about people. People who went to China a while back and are out of date with the fast-growing culture. I've learnt from them all, and am glad I don't have to pick just one person's opinions to listen to.

[Vince G]

NO Mikael that is not what I said. Putting a spin on it doesn't change the facts. Suggesting that the less experienced in a particular situation keep silent and not participate for deemed by you as unknowledgeable is as I see it prejudiced and narrow-minded.

This forum is for ALL people looking for help with questions. Any answer given is a help. I think it's appalling that you feel it's a inconvenience that people are socializing and making an effort to help.

Oh, and btw I have been in a F1, a indy, a nascar, a rail, funny car and driven just about every exotic auto around, Have you? Since you haven't I'm disregarding the F1 statement you made.

[Mikael_Shim]

Well if you think _any_ answer given is help, then good for you. I suppose my answer has been just as helpful as any other then.

I also never said any less experienced would keep silent or not participate. I said there were those who seemed to believe they were experts in the field without never been to the field. I wonder who is putting a spin to things or playing games with the order of said words.

You seem to take personal offense as you regard the "you" as used in my examples to be you personally which i would have thought would be selfexplanatory that it was not pointed to any individual at all in particular. They were mere comparisions , and i havent heard you claim you were a good lawyer, better then Mc Gyver or a great F1 driver (well until now) but you seem to have taken it personally.

I doubt you know anything at all what cars i have sat in , drove, owned or wrecked. But i have driven them all too.  And can do whenever i want to. Comfortably from behind a computer screen.

[maxx]

OK guys getting  little tense here.everybody take 24 hours and think about it.You know me I'm a asshole and I have no problem shutting this thread down.So be cool and no personell attaches

[Vince G]

So Mikael, in one of your first posts you said "you haven't been to China"? And yet you wrote all about doing business there, using debit cards there, wages and so on. Need I say more?

[Mikael_Shim]

Haha, i have been doing business through HK for several years and trade with a few longterm suppliers on the mainland. And i have colleagues who has set up shop in HK and was trying to on mainland and i also investigated this alot, not just from my computer. I know every step of the way what needs be done and not because i have been actively involved in such process. And guess what, not just from my computer.

As for the credit cards, i was asking advice.

no, you need not say more lol ... Im all good

And not gonna add any more food for thoughts on the subject. It is evident none is further needed.