Too fast?

[RobertBfrom aust]

Ryan , your pss got it in 1 and she probably may even receive pictures on her mobile , just remember that several of the guys here have supplied there ladies with computers so she is not alone in not having one , and they are loath to use company property unless it is a done thing and they are senior , also remember that translators will pad out the answers to you in the beginning until a true friendship is formed and you tell them to cut it out , regards Sujuan and Robert .

[Sylvain D]

From our own experience, a few chinese people know about SKYPE... Because to them, QQ is the most important tool used to communicate, like MSN Messenger for us, in fact.
Plus, most of chinese ladies don't have a computer at home, so they can have news from us via their agencies. The agencies (also, the translator), will call them, saying that someone wrote them, and if they want to know what is the message. Also, about photos, they can show them when the ladies go to the agencies.
If the lady wants to reply, she can do it :
- via phone, to the translator. (most of us agree that some translator add some more "contents" to the letters, in fact. If there are some photos, the translator says that to the lady, who will then go to the agency to see it, or to any computer if she can access to one (friends, cybercoffee, ie)
- directly from the agencies. So, she can spend some more time with the translator, and talk more about her if she wants and can also give some photos from her or to anything else.

At first, it can be "difficult" to know if we are talking to the translator or to the lady, but well... it just needs a bit some time to make that clear, and soon, you easily guess who's who.
Anyway, don't scare yourself about that and about EMF's, too.  Even if you send only one EMF/week, your lady will really appreciate that you send that EMF to her

[Martin]

Ryan...keep your eyes open.  I know i said it before, but I am saying it again.  I have red flags from what you tell us.  Maybe she doesn't own a camera...I have a hard time with that one...but I also have to keep in mind that her parents are farmers, so they would not have a lot of money...and even if she is working, she was likely raised to not spend money on useless things.  So I don't know.  What are red flags for me, may be nothing, because of her rural background.  You are doing good, by making "demands" to have things go a certain way.  If she refuses to communicate outside of chnlove after a month or two, then maybe it is time to look elsewhere.  Chnlove is not exactly the cheapest way to communicate.  I think you are doing a great job at asking questions, and not just running in blind.

[R.Ross]

Ryan , your pss got it in 1 and she probably may even receive pictures on her mobile , just remember that several of the guys here have supplied there ladies with computers so she is not alone in not having one , and they are loath to use company property unless it is a done thing and they are senior , also remember that translators will pad out the answers to you in the beginning until a true friendship is formed and you tell them to cut it out , regards Sujuan and Robert .

Thanks Robert.  Is it usually just one specific translator that is assigned to a case?  That would make sense.  How would you contact the translator, just include a note at the bottom?

From our own experience, a few chinese people know about SKYPE... Because to them, QQ is the most important tool used to communicate, like MSN Messenger for us, in fact.
Plus, most of chinese ladies don't have a computer at home, so they can have news from us via their agencies. The agencies (also, the translator), will call them, saying that someone wrote them, and if they want to know what is the message. Also, about photos, they can show them when the ladies go to the agencies.
If the lady wants to reply, she can do it :
- via phone, to the translator. (most of us agree that some translator add some more "contents" to the letters, in fact. If there are some photos, the translator says that to the lady, who will then go to the agency to see it, or to any computer if she can access to one (friends, cybercoffee, ie)
- directly from the agencies. So, she can spend some more time with the translator, and talk more about her if she wants and can also give some photos from her or to anything else.

At first, it can be "difficult" to know if we are talking to the translator or to the lady, but well... it just needs a bit some time to make that clear, and soon, you easily guess who's who.
Anyway, don't scare yourself about that and about EMF's, too.  Even if you send only one EMF/week, your lady will really appreciate that you send that EMF to her

Good to know Sylvain.

Ryan,

I do not know about your lady, but I can tell you exactly how things worked out for me and my wife when we were at this stage...

I would write a letter, the agency would get it, and they understood English, and would read it, then they would call her on the phone, she has a cell phone. They would tell her .... you have a letter from Mike, and he says .... A, and B and C and D ... etc ... he sent some pictures of a house where he lives, and of him standing next to a car ....

so she would give them some instructions for what to say back to me ... and to save the pictures .... they did not forward the pictures to her cell phone, but for some of these ladies that might be possible.... for my wife I found out later that she would visit the agency about 3 or 4 times a year, and see pictures that guys sent, including me,

in response to my EMF the agency would create a very long, and fluffy, and beautiful letter to me, talk about the things I mentioned, and my pictures, and fill in with lots of honey this, and sweetie that, and "i love you" ....  etc ... and like you are saying ... I got very fast responses to my letters!

so she was aware of my letter, and what it contained .... and she controlled the tone of the response, and asked them to express appreciation etc .... but it was NOT really from her, but was a combination of her and the agency...  I was rather shocked that during one of my later sessions with my wife on computer using QQ that she told me... "I went to the agency today, and I saw all of our pictures" .... she knew I sent pictures throughout our letters, but finally went and saw them for the first time!

While my wife had a cell phone, she did not have a computer, or any internet hook-up ...  she did not even know how to operate a computer and still is not good at it after a year .... for example i sent her a PDF file, and she then asked me to FAX the same document to her so she could have it on paper 

On my first trip I bought my lady a computer, and helped her set it up.
She did not know what Skype is, and still does not know what it is .... but she has QQ, and uses it every day.  So I got QQ so we could talk to each other that way.
Once she had the computer she had to learn how to use it, she had NO idea how to type on it, how to use a mouse, how to enter Chinese words .... it took a while, and she needed help from other people, but she did learn.

Now we talk almost every day, use audio on QQ, and text, and also web-cam .... it is fun ... we teach each other language.

ok, my advice to you is ..... use the phone to reach her, and struggle through that way, and over time work out a way to get onto a computer, QQ will be a good way to go, because so many chinese use it!  after all it is all in chinese !  for your side of the communications use this version of QQ

http://www.imqq.com/

which has an English interface

also, if things keep going well, then plan a trip. then you will see her situation, and her life. If a computer would be a big help, and she does not have one, or know how to use one, then this is a big problem to be solved. I had to solve it for my relationship, so it is possible.

Mike O.

Thanks for the link and info Mike.  It's true I would rather buy her a computer than spend the money on EMF's.  You can get a nice netbook for a couple hundred dollars these days, and a computer is more helpful in the long run.  I just have to make sure everything is as real and good as it seems first...

Ryan,

Some of the agencies can be very protective of younger women, and 25 can be considered pretty young in the Chinese culture.  So that is something to consider as well.  You never really know if it's being protective of the lady, or protective of their profits...also, I read on this forum where one guy got his lady's phone number (he thought) but it turned out to be someone from the agency pretending to be her.  This is not to say that will happen to you...just want you to be aware of it...this situation involved a woman in her 20's...I hope you have a real conversation with the real lady this weekend.
Scott

That's interesting Scott.  I had thought about that too, if I call and it's not really her how would I know?  Will just have to try I guess, and see how it goes.

Ryan...keep your eyes open.  I know i said it before, but I am saying it again.  I have red flags from what you tell us.  Maybe she doesn't own a camera...I have a hard time with that one...but I also have to keep in mind that her parents are farmers, so they would not have a lot of money...and even if she is working, she was likely raised to not spend money on useless things.  So I don't know.  What are red flags for me, may be nothing, because of her rural background.  You are doing good, by making "demands" to have things go a certain way.  If she refuses to communicate outside of chnlove after a month or two, then maybe it is time to look elsewhere.  Chnlove is not exactly the cheapest way to communicate.  I think you are doing a great job at asking questions, and not just running in blind.

Thanks Martin.  I also feel a bit uneasy about what she said, but the rural background is a thing to consider.  She told me she is working in a photography studio as a designer, making wedding photos look nicer.  So she can't be totally tech illiterate, right?  That's actually how I found her, searching by profession of Graphic Artist/Designer.

It's a big change for me, my ex was very much a modern city girl, with a computer and excellent English.  But sometimes the hard way is better 

I'm just really not thrilled with how chnlove is set up, so I ended communication with all girls except this one.  She also said I'm "the only man she wants to know more about" and I'm "the first man I get such a strong feeling when I first saw you".  Which I know could just as easily be pure fluff.  How soon should I ask her to make her profile private?

Ryan

[Pineau]

Ryan...keep your eyes open.  I know i said it before, but I am saying it again.  I have red flags from what you tell us.  Maybe she doesn't own a camera...I have a hard time with that one..

Me too. Big red flag. I got the same story about no photos and I will send you some soon. The reason for the delay was so the agency could modify them to look more like the lady in the profile. You cant buy a cell phone without a camera any more!  Think about this, even if she does not own a camera, if she is interested in you at all she would beg or borrow one to keep you happy.  Everything you have said sounds frieghtenly familar to me. Listen to what these guys are saying. I didn't and I paid an emotional and monetary price for it. And I still didn't learn my lesson. I have been back to the well a few more times with the same results.  Draw a line and don't cross it. If she is sincere she should be going out of her way to try to please you and comply with your request. I think you are still talking with the translator myself. But I am biased.
Pineau

[R.Ross]

Me too. Big red flag. I got the same story about no photos and I will send you some soon. The reason for the delay was so the agency could modify them to look more like the lady in the profile. You cant buy a cell phone without a camera any more!  Think about this, even if she does not own a camera, if she is interested in you at all she would beg or borrow one to keep you happy.  Everything you have said sounds frieghtenly familar to me. Listen to what these guys are saying. I didn't and I paid an emotional and monetary price for it. And I still didn't learn my lesson. I have been back to the well a few more times with the same results.  Draw a line and don't cross it. If she is sincere she should be going out of her way to try to please you and comply with your request. I think you are still talking with the translator myself. But I am biased.
Pineau

You're so right.  I'm really hoping it's real, but from all we know there's no way she can get any benefit of the doubt until there is solid proof things are how they appear. 

It's such a dirty game, the more you spend the more you want it to be real since you're invested.  The problem is I have only 1 more credit haha they know how to milk you.  I'm only going to buy 4 more though and with her number find out for sure this weekend if anything's real and be prepared to cut my losses if not.

[David E]

Ryan

I know each of us does things in our own way...win , lose, or draw !!

I just wanted to contrast my own experience with the "grind" you are going through with the CHNLove saga.

I too spent heaps of time (and heaps of money) prospecting in CHNLove. I too had much the same results as you and others describe here.

I went to China on several occasions and was horribly disppointed (and ripped off !!) with the outcome. I did not know at that time to be more aggressive with requests for contact outside EMF's or for natural photos. I was stupid enough to believe that CHNLove was ethical and honest  ....more fool me !!. Only when I found this Forum did I get some real ideas as to how the whole thing worked and what I should be doing to protect myself .

Quite by chance, I signed  with Blossoms and China Love links....mainly due to some info I got from Shaun, another Bro on here.

Out of the blue, I got a request from a lovely Lady to correspond with her...so I did.

After 2 emails, she sent me heaps of natural photos and SHE asked me if I wanted to meet her on QQ the next day.

I learned over the next few weeks that she had previously been a CHNLove client and had left them because she was not happy with the way they did Business....she only ever got vague messages from them, never saw them face-to-face and felt it was all a waste of money and time.

There are no EMF charges on Blossom or CLL, only a very modest joining fee. What you see is what you get !!!!

Of course, there are many REAL scammers on these free sites, but if you NEVER send money, you cant get scammed.

Long story short...we were married in June this year....it does not get any better than that !!!

I am not touting that anybody should leave CHNLove and try somewhere else, but what I am trying to illustrate here is that until you get on QQ or similar, you are in dangerous Country...you will never be sure what is going on. At some point in time, before you have spent a fortune on a myth, either get tough about a better contact situation...or move on. Sometimes it is hard to do this, but ultimately to keep feeding the EMF machine is pain, pain, pain.

DavidE

[Pineau]

DavidE. I absolutely agree. I also got the advice from Shaun. I joined blossom, clm, and cll and in no time i had many ladies contacting me. No problems about providing photos and were anxious to chat imediatly on QQ, MSN, Yahoo, IM. They know them all.

Ryan, I know you dont want to give up. For a lot of reasons you already feel something for her? But stand your ground about photos and communications.  When I did this the ladies quietly dissapeared.

[R.Ross]

Ryan

I know each of us does things in our own way...win , lose, or draw !!

I just wanted to contrast my own experience with the "grind" you are going through with the CHNLove saga.

I too spent heaps of time (and heaps of money) prospecting in CHNLove. I too had much the same results as you and others describe here.

I went to China on several occasions and was horribly disppointed (and ripped off !!) with the outcome. I did not know at that time to be more aggressive with requests for contact outside EMF's or for natural photos. I was stupid enough to believe that CHNLove was ethical and honest  ....more fool me !!. Only when I found this Forum did I get some real ideas as to how the whole thing worked and what I should be doing to protect myself .

Quite by chance, I signed  with Blossoms and China Love links....mainly due to some info I got from Shaun, another Bro on here.

Out of the blue, I got a request from a lovely Lady to correspond with her...so I did.

After 2 emails, she sent me heaps of natural photos and SHE asked me if I wanted to meet her on QQ the next day.

I learned over the next few weeks that she had previously been a CHNLove client and had left them because she was not happy with the way they did Business....she only ever got vague messages from them, never saw them face-to-face and felt it was all a waste of money and time.

There are no EMF charges on Blossom or CLL, only a very modest joining fee. What you see is what you get !!!!

Of course, there are many REAL scammers on these free sites, but if you NEVER send money, you cant get scammed.

Long story short...we were married in June this year....it does not get any better than that !!!

I am not touting that anybody should leave CHNLove and try somewhere else, but what I am trying to illustrate here is that until you get on QQ or similar, you are in dangerous Country...you will never be sure what is going on. At some point in time, before you have spent a fortune on a myth, either get tough about a better contact situation...or move on. Sometimes it is hard to do this, but ultimately to keep feeding the EMF machine is pain, pain, pain.

DavidE

DavidE. I absolutely agree. I also got the advice from Shaun. I joined blossom, clm, and cll and in no time i had many ladies contacting me. No problems about providing photos and were anxious to chat imediatly on QQ, MSN, Yahoo, IM. They know them all.

Ryan, I know you dont want to give up. For a lot of reasons you already feel something for her? But stand your ground about photos and communications.  When I did this the ladies quietly dissapeared.

I didn't know about these other sites.  What are the fees like?  The girls also use translators/agencies or what?  I just kind of stumbled on Chnlove and was browsing, then one thing leads to another you know.  I like this girl, but there's a lot of great girls out there.  I'm debating not buying anymore credits if it would be smarter just to use the money on these other sites?

Thx for the advice guys...

Ryan

[Paul Todd]

Ted and Willy here have their own introduction site for you to meet Chinese ladies, pm them you never know what might happen. At least you know there honest. (Ted you can put the check in the post now!)

[R.Ross]

With you guys shedding some light on me, I decided to do this....

Since I only have 1 EMF credit left I'm going to write her and tell her that if she's true and real she can send her QQ number to me through email with natural pics so we can webcam chat.  Even without a computer, there's a billion internet cafes in BJ for chrissakes.... if she can't at least do that, then I shouldn't even be wasting money/time on her.  A phone call will prove nothing since it could be anyone. 

Thanks for slapping some sense into me 

[Jimmy]

Before you run away to fast.
I wrote my wife 2 months before she was able to scratch up a picture for me.  She claimed she had no camera. And guess what she didn't.
I bought her one for Christmas and delivered it my first trip in January.
These women are not Americans. And some are very poor and have been married and badly abused. They are looking for love. And if they can find it and get a better way of life to go with it. Nothing wrong with that. Many don't have computers, and don't know how to use one if they had it.
I hear a lot of guys say, Well I find that hard to believe, well brother believe it.
If natural Pics are that important, I can promise you are gonna miss out on some really nice women. The pic's will come just keep asking. 
Second forget everything you know about women. These women are more different than you know.

 And again the camera the stereotype that they all have a camera. That's Japanese. The big camera companies are in Japan.

[R.Ross]

Before you run away to fast.
I wrote my wife 2 months before she was able to scratch up a picture for me.  She claimed she had no camera. And guess what she didn't.
I bought her one for Christmas and delivered it my first trip in January.
These women are not Americans. And some are very poor and have been married and badly abused. They are looking for love. And if they can find it and get a better way of life to go with it. Nothing wrong with that. Many don't have computers, and don't know how to use one if they had it.
I hear a lot of guys say, Well I find that hard to believe, well brother believe it.
If natural Pics are that important, I can promise you are gonna miss out on some really nice women. The pic's will come just keep asking. 
Second forget everything you know about women. These women are more different than you know.

 And again the camera the stereotype that they all have a camera. That's Japanese. The big camera companies are in Japan.

I hear what you're saying, I can understand her not having a camera/computer especially being a farm girl.  But if she's talking about marriage and how I'm the only guy for her and she can't make the effort on the weekend to go to an internet cafe and get on QQ... how can I trust anything she says?  I've already proven my sincerity to her by taking pictures and paying for the EMF's, all I'm asking for is a simple gesture to put everything on the table before we continue.  If she really can't find an internet connection or camera in the city of Beijing or is offended by it... then I guess that's fate, plenty of fish in the sea....

Ryan

P.S.  I actually do still think she's real.  I just want to cut through the BS from the beginning and expose anything that could be fake. 

[Jimmy]

A farm Girl. She can probably do everything you say. And you have spent a few bucks on EMFs. Well we can start with the sincerity via money. Until you have spent at least $1000 bucks she is still ahead of you. These woman pay a fortune just for you to see who they are. And then if you go visit her, she has to pay some more, and if you marry her she has to pay more again. And most of these agencies convince these girls of well I will just say many wrong things. Up until about the time you show up in China and meet this woman, most likely her cash investment is much larger than yours.
Now so she goes to the internet bar. She gives them a couple bucks to talk to you, They show her where she can sit. Now what? She probably doesn't have a clue what to do and at the same time she is scared stiff and a little embarrassed because she doesn't know what to do. And if she had one of those typical Chinese husbands, she is expecting to be told how stupid she is. 
When my wife finally got the nerve to do what you are asking of this girl. We were very lucky she has a son that is a total gamer so he knew exactly what to do so she had him take her.  They are very scared and nervous gals they want everything to be perfect especially the initial meeting. and will tell you NO or put you off until they have the confidence to do it.
There are a lot of fish in the sea, and a lot of sharks too.  So naturally you do what you are comfortable with and what is best for you. I would relax and give it a little more time.
Her talking about marriage very early on, this happens all the time. And she will keep doing it until it happens. Be it to you or someone else. She wants a husband this is well established. So let her talk about it.  This is one of the best pieces of advice I can give anyone. Have Patience, if you don't you may as well give up now. Nothing will happen fast.
Any of these guys will tell you that, I got Married the first half of last January. Still waiting to take my bride home. So take your time enjoy the ride, stop and smell the roses. Don't have so many doubts, keep your eyes open but things aren't always as they appear.

Consider this anyone that has all of the technology and a bunch of pictures just waiting to send you, they already knew what you were going to want.  WHY?
Because there's a good chance they have been through it several times already, because they are some hairy legged translator sitting in an Agency waiting to milk you for more cash.

[maxx]

Jimmy well said.I would also like to point out.That if the girl is talking about marraige after the first week.It is probably the translator.Trying to keep you interested.