End of the road

[Pineau]

I am in Guangzhou and have just returned to my hotel room and finished reading a heart breaking  letter from the woman I left in Dalian. I am ready to quit now.   I have emotionally devastated this woman and I don’t know how I can ever make it up to her.  I do not recommend it to anyone my plan to anyone. It just hurts too much . I don’t want to hurt anyone else.  I am going to stay in Guangzhou and pursue the woman I came here to meet.

Pineau

http://youtu.be/Kx2TTTz48qI

[Arnold]

Pineau , we had many Men that thought seeing more than one Lady is a good plan . I myself was always against it personally , because .. just that very reason NOT to have it come to this . We all make mistakes thinking our plan is always the best . You can't undo it now , sweet words wont make them feel better .. whats done is done . You have learned the lesson the hard way , hurting someone .. but sometimes it is the other way around and don't forget that . Of course it's not right now to think it's okay , they do it to us . Like you said , concentrate a the Lady in GZ now and give her ALL of your attention . Hope it will let you forget , the others ever happen .

[Martin]

I have to agree with Robert on this one.  In the case of my wife, we did not have a marriage fee, but she did have an introduction fee.  So for every man that came to visit her, there would be a 3000 RMB cost.  I am sure that every agency has a different fee schedule.  Excellent point Robert.

[maxx]

Martin is correct.My wife meet and greet fee was 3,000 Rmb.So at the time 240.00 U.S. dollars

[Willy The Londoner]

Forget about the money.  What is more important that several women have had their hopes risen and then smashed by one selfish man.  No other way to say it.   But we wonder why women do not fall over backwards for us foreigners.

Just the second reason I haved heard today that will set parents up against us 'foreigners' courting their daughters.

So no voices of sympathy for the guys, that has been self inflicted by ignoring advice. Save that for those that have been hurt.

Willy

[Pineau]

I hear you Willy and I have no excuses. I somehow justified this idea because of the terrible things that a few ladies and some agencies have done to me. But I have hurt some innocent people and that causes me much pain to think about. Especially when I see the hopes that they put into the chance of a lifetime meeting.  I have met several ladies on this trip and at times  felt as though I was on a job interview with the ladies asking probing questions about my health and physique. It was easy for me to take a pass on those ladies. But most of them were soft hearted gentle women looking to fulfill their dream. The two I am most impressed with are the one in Guangzhou and the one in Dalian. These two are very special to me. I think it is not only hard on the ladies but also on me. I let myself get too close to these two.  It was hard to say good bye to the one in Dalian after spending just two days with her.

I have also listened to some stories about Chinese and foreign men taking advantage of these ladies. There are some real low-life scum men in this world.

Pineau

[Willy The Londoner]

I hear you Willy and I have no excuses. I somehow justified this idea because of the terrible things that a few ladies and some agencies have done to me. But I have hurt some innocent people and that causes me much pain to think about. Especially when I see the hopes that they put into the chance of a lifetime meeting.  I have met several ladies on this trip and at times  felt as though I was on a job interview with the ladies asking probing questions about my health and physique. It was easy for me to take a pass on those ladies. But most of them were soft hearted gentle women looking to fulfill their dream. The two I am most impressed with are the one in Guangzhou and the one in Dalian. These two are very special to me. I think it is not only hard on the ladies but also on me. I let myself get too close to these two.  It was hard to say good bye to the one in Dalian after spending just two days with her.

I have also listened to some stories about Chinese and foreign men taking advantage of these ladies. There are some real low-life scum men in this world.

Pineau

I hear what you say but it is no excuse whatsover to involve innocent people in what sounds to be a 'vengeance' campaign.

I think your last lines says it all.    It is men like this that has resulted in Myself and Ted closing our agency.

Willy

[ttwjr32]

Well it doesnt surprise me that it has turned out like this. What ever makes a man think its ok to
come to China to visit a few ladies and pick one is beyond me. Its a formula for disaster. Why come
here in such a rush? Wait until you find the one who steals your heart and then come and spend a
few weeks with her. What do you or can you accomplish in a few days??? This is not like a tv show
THE BATCHELOR were women line up for a chance to get with a man.

Even after some time of being with a woman as i have been there are problems that develop and
need to be worked thru so this takes a total commitment from both parties. I think the ladies who
didnt want to see you anymore made the right decision. And now you like the 2 who are at this
time havent told you to get lost completely.

Having lived here and also having the dating site i have talked with many ladies here. They always lead
the conversation to how did i meet my wife? I tell them the process and how we talked and commited to
each other. Well thats when i hear the stories like this from them saying how men came here on an interview
process. They always say i hope i can finally meet one like you. Now i am far from the best man out there but
what they liked was i didnt play i found one and tried to work it out with just the two of us.

What they like was the commitment. There are far to many who just think they can come here and play. No
matter how you look at it thats what this looks like. Come for visit play around and move to the next one. These
ladies will commit to you if you show you are also commited.

If when starting out your worried about a scam then you should not even be looking for a lady here. Yes many
agencies have poor practices but there is a way around that. Just demand direct contact and if it doesnt happen
move to the next one. All the agencies dont have these bad practices.

And when you find a real one she has probably been used like this or knows of someone who has so why do you
think they start out slow. They are looking for the commitment.

[Arnold]

Well put Willy and Ted .

I've been against this more than one Lady deal for some three years now . I try'd to tell them ( the ones that thought this was the best way ) on the Official over and over .. it's not ok . But these are only words coming from someone they don't know or care about , so do they listen ? No !
How often was it incouraged even on this Forum about have a Plan 'B' plan 'C' if it fails on Plan 'A' . Well I tell you my Plan 'B' would have been .. I'm here and now I can have been .. let's see/check out this City ( Shanghai ) I came to Visit and go back and maybe try again or not . how many times have we said , let's turn the table .. how would you like it ? Sorry MR. Foreigner , I need to see some other Men first before I decide . That really makes me Sick . This is NOT a Meat market now , is it ?
This has happened to both my Sister's ( Min & Lily ) too .. Men coming here and nothing but Lies lies lies .

[Chong]

I don't see anything wrong with meeting more than one lady.

First of all, Pineau's been married to a Chinese woman once before so he's not a newbie. Secondly, he's had bad experience with agencies. How many men in this Forum went to China only to find out that the lady wasn't who she was and then the agency used the "bait & switch". Well, the guy's heart gets broken too. Then most of us advised him that he should have made a plan "B" before he came. Or how many men went to China with the intention of meeting just one woman only to find out that there's no chemistry ? Then most of us tell him to meet others and not waste the trip.

This is dating reality ... hearts get broken. You have to find a woman that you click with. This is no different than the 'speed dating lunches" where you essentially 'interview' 10 women within 10 minutes.

Pineau is travelling thousands of miles; he should have 'options'. Many men have written to two women on Chnlove. After 10 or so letters, they choose one ... and the other woman's heart is broken. Pineau's just doing it face-to-face. Our golden rule here is that you don't know a woman fully until you meet her in person.

Sad to say this but recently, there has been several cases of separation among our membership ... both in marriage and in dating. You REALLY have to know a woman completely before proposing. Pineau's choosing one that he feels a connection with over the other woman.

How did this get from one man breaking one woman's heart to 'men are scums and are here to play & sleep with Chinese women' ?

Willy, you wroted about your dating experiences in China ... dating/sleeping with many until you finally met your wife. I'm sure that you broke many hearts. How is it any different than what's Pineau's doing ? This isn't a personal attack but an observation.

[JamesM.Roberts]

Dear Pineau
Please remember -what I'm about to say,is not meant to be mean spirited-But congratulations- it sounds like you have just grown up a bit.
Alright maybe there was just a little mean spirit there but I swear it was NOT just aimed at you (as you have already learned) but instead is for the next fellow who goes China with plan A,B, or C. We need to remember that China is the ONLY country in the world where the female suicide rate is higher than the male suicide rate. We need to remember that many, many of these ladies are made to feel inferior to males, sometimes by their families, society,old boyfriends,ex-husbands etc,etc. So when a man rejects them or "toys" with their emotions they feel that HE must be right and that she is not worthy of love.
Not to mention the fact that many of these ladies are Buddhists, and believe that they must have done something wrong, to deserve the karma  that just bit them in the A**.
I myself, feel it is always wrong to play with anothers' heart strings and we all need to remember those strings can be easily broken.

[Willy The Londoner]

Willy, you wroted about your dating experiences in China ... dating/sleeping with many until you finally met your wife. I'm sure that you broke many hearts. How is it any different than what's Pineau's doing ? This isn't a personal attack but an observation.

Two things I point out.  Every women I dated was just a date they knew that from the start.  Not one of them was under any illusion that it was anything more than that.   I never travelled thousands of miles to see them just took a 7 rmb taxi ride.  If they wanted me in bed then I would oblige.  If they were not ready for that then nothing happened.   In some cases it was just clinical in temporarilly removing the stress some women had built up in a solo state.     One many occasion I travelled home in the mornings with the feeling that I HAD BEEN used.  A happy feeling none the less!!!!!

 But what I take exception to was 'sleeping with women' -  there was never any time for sleeping!!  How does the phrase go. 'What I could do all night now takes me allnight!'

Willy

For the record I never did bed the only one I did travel thousands of miles to see!!   

 

[Vince G]

There's a factor that seems to be skipped over. Obviously I don't have a problem with guys meeting more then one woman on a trip. But I think it is how you handle it and what you say or promise them that makes the trouble. If your telling them all the same thing like you love them and want to marry but going there to check them out then your deceiving them and maybe yourself as well. Leading them on is mean spirited and the wrong thing to do.

[dude]

maybe if a guy has been able to have success on such a trip he could tell us how to do that? without causing all these problems.

Mike,

I can relate to what your saying. I wouldn't do it this way either! To each his own! He isn't a noob with this either, as Chong pointed out. Some post here with absolutely no experience butt I guess that's ok.

This is a two way street!!! Those with experience can use it or lose it. Pineau was kind enough to post his experience and was expressing his regret. We are all human right??? Everybody should respect this!!! Those that are new should be able to read and learn this may not be a good way to deal with it! Being here, in China, I see both sides of this particular coin! This isn't a matter of who's right and who's wrong. This is Pineau's experience and he's showing his regret. Live and learn guys!!! Don't be in such a attack mode like some individuals with absolutely no experience!     People should be able to express what's up without being attacked by a clique or individuals without experience! This is a forum right???

dude!

[maxx]

Two people two sets of emotions two lives.At no point and time is it ok to play with somebodies life.Or thiere emotions.This is not speed dating.For the woman.They have spent about 2 months of there salary.To even be listed on Chnlove.Yes we do spend allot of money and time.And do fly 6,000 to 7,000 miles.But it is not anywhere close to 2 months of my salary.If it is close to 2 months of your salary.Maybe you shouldn't be doing this until you get your salary where it  needs to be.Love will not support you entirely.You are going to need some cash.

For those of you.Who think the major expense is over.After you get the woman to your country.It is not true.You do not just set these woman on a shelf like a trophy.Each and everyone of my bills.Has come close to doubling since my wife has come to the states.From the food bill.All the way to the water bill.And that is to say nothing of the doctor bills.Hospital bills.clothes for your new wife.personell care products.Entertainment.

So why do this.If it is so much of a bother.And so expensive.Because I met a woman.Who I love.That was either silly or crazy enough to follow me half way around the world.Leaving everything behind that she ever knew..So maybe I  can act like the man in the relationship.And take care of my wife.She has given up so much to be with me.

Granted every one wants a sure thing.When we decide to do this.And make the trip to China..We struggle and vent are rage.At are governments.We vent are rage against custom and culture issues.The laungage issues.

Did I ever tell you this was easy?Did I ever tell you this was cheap? Did I threaten you with physical violence?.Did I hold a gun to your head? Each and everyday of your life is a choice.We all make choices everyday on how we choose to live are life.And sometimes those choices effect other peoples life's.So what do you choose today.Do you choose to try this.Or do you choose to try this half way.And treat it like a booty call.Messing around in somebody else's hopes and dreams.

I cannot see a problem writing to just one woman.Putting your efforts to try to connect with just the one woman.If it doesn't work it doesn't work.You either stop trying this.Or you try again.Simple choices.That only effect you.And the woman you were trying to hook up with.You are not leaving broken hearts all over China.And making the rest of us look like schmucks.Who just want to play.with the girls.

So what do you do if this goes of the tracks.You have a back up plan.For the sake of argument.I was going to go back to hong Kong.And then take a plane to Thailand.I have since learned that was a real stupid plan.I can go to any street corner in China.And truly attractive girls.Will come to me and start talking to me.Ive ben invited to thiere homes.Ive ben invited to eat with them.Or just spend the day with them.So you will never lack a woman's companionship in China.

If this approach still fails you.You can always have the agency name address and phone number.In the city where you will be staying.Most of the time If you call the agency.They will pick you up at your hotel.And introduce you.To other ladies.So your not out of options.If the lady that you have ben writing to do not connect