my love story

[Philip]

John, I feel  for you. Your wife is acting  like a spoilt child. She does not have the monopoly on feelings. In fact, with your dignified silence, you have proven yourself the adult in this relationship.
In my opinion, you have 2 options: 1. tell her how her unreasonable shifts in mood make you feel, and say that if she ever says anything that questions your 100% loyalty to her again, you will drive to an unspecified  location and turn off your phone for 24 hours. Or 2. You decide together on a monthly amount to be put in her bank account, and she is under strict instructions not to say what she does with the money, and she is forbidden from asking for more once it is agreed. If either of these conditions are not met, she forfeits the money.
I suppose both of these options are the way you would deal with a wayward child, but she needs a reality check. If this is way she behaves in normal circumstances, how will she behave if things get difficult?

[JohnB]

"...Once we worked though it and sorted it all out then we are the best of friends. There
will always be disagreements and negotiations but you don't need to be adversaries out
to get the better of the other.  You want to be partners."
Hey Gerry, right on!

Relationships, all different aren't they, are sometimes like walking a tight rope, the more problems,
the higher up the rope. I think maybe a different approach to John's problem resolution may be in order.
John, you mentioned you want to teach children English in China. Go! Get out of Australia, go to China,
teach English. That was your stated desire. One thing I would not do, and that is to go to Handan.
I would go far from away from that city. Show your independence. Be strong.
For the sake of your marriage, or most importantly, YOUR happiness, do what YOU want to do. Establish
YOUR set of rules. Play YOUR life's game. This approach makes no demands on her whatsoever! I guess
you would say this is an 'end- a- round'  maneuver in problem resolution.
Do not try to think what she thinks. Do not consider what she says. Be passive with her, but be resolute,
you are not confronting her, not demanding of her anything. Be STRONG! You mark your line in the sand,
now it is her choice whether to cross or not cross.
Go and teach English to children. Enjoy your life in China.
If she loves you, then she will join you wherever in China you may be.

[Arnold]

 ....."This was ok with me as i know this is important to many in the Chinese culture".....

This is exactly what it is. She's going back and being married to a western Man, she of course want's (better yet... needs) to show good "Face" especially to her Family members. It now has gotten so bad, that some expect when being "Re-visited" it should be in the 100's of dollars (even a thousand) to be given at those return Trips... to Parents/Uncle's/Aunt's/Brother's/Sister's and of course their own Kid's if left behind for the time being.
Going back "Short" (which in your case, as they all have their set amount of whats right), is too lose major Face. This also "washes" your Face at the same time. This, in certain cases just can not be helped... one either lives with it or it will cause too much to handle for either side and we know what the outcome for this is....

I hope both of you can overcome this with even terms and a lasting Marriage/Relationship left!

[David E]

John B

The word is "emotional blackmail"

This Lady seems to be pushing buttons and pulling strings to make you jump around to meet her agenda. What exactly this agenda is is difficult for an outsider to figure out.
I fully agree with what has been said by others here...you did not sign up for this and you inevitably have got to say " It stops here, now, period"

If you allow this scenario to persist, YOU will be the casualty. You have brought this lady, at great trouble and expense, to live in what can only be described as a paradise compared to what she had previously. You did this for LOVE and you have every right for this to be appreciated and respected.

Time to get tough Mate....

Stop this rot...NOW

Cheers...David

[JohnB]

DavidE,
I agree with you the “emotional blackmail”. John has spent a sh*tload of money & time...& his emotions on her. Long thread.
33 pages. November 13, 2010. I think it still growing. If he were to develop the tough hide, I would be very, very surprised. I
do not think it is in him.
It is presumptuous for me to infer anything other than a basic lack of respect by his wife. I'm giving John the benefit of the
doubt. He has mentioned his want of work in China teaching English to children. Whether or not the circumstance of marriage
failure does exist, at least John would not be alone in Australia stewing in his own juices, wondering what the f*ck went wrong?
What now? I think it safe to say that John would have an easier time going forward in life than his wife, that is, if he were in China. 

 

[maxx]

OK Then.Cause and effect.Before somebody pulls out the cross. And we strap John's wife to it.Why don't we find out why. she started acting this way.Has she always acted this way? Or has it just started. In the last couple of months. If it has just ben the last couple of months.Then What has changed in the relationship.Is somebody spitting poison in this woman's ear? Has John done something he shouldn't of done.

David E and the rest of you guys.Do make a good point.Emotional blackmail should never be used.And neither should revenge.Ore the strong right arm of the dictator.John  needs to sit down with his wife.And find out whats eating at her.Then they can either move forward.Or stop this thing before somebody really doe's get hurt.

If I had to guess.What is eating at her.I would probably agree with Arnold.Or I would say it is the enternet friend John was talking to.John may thought it was a done deal.But his wife mite be thinking different.Or it mite of left a bad taste in her mouth.

Rule # 1 different country different customs. We have discussed this before.Your wives's are from a different country.With it's own set of customs.One of the customs is you don't talk to another woman.Even if she is 6,000 miles away.If your wife's first husband ran off with another woman.Or he was playing house with another women before he left his wife.

I know you are thinking well she went to Aussie land.So she needs to live and act like a Aussie.Well she probably will.But it isn't going to happen over night.John needs to slow the roll.And talk to his wife and figure this out.

[fivetrout]

It seems John's story has hit home with most of us with flashbacks of sorts with our own failed relationships. It took me a long time to figure out my own issues that had allowed me to relinquish power in a past relationship. Today, I won't take any effort by a woman to dictate anything to me! John needs to see himself as the prize in a relationship, and that she must measure up to him...not the other way around! At that point equality in the relationship can be hashed out. 

[Martin]

Great advice from all of you guys, and certainly a lot for John to sift through and to consider. The part that catches my eye is how fast her moods swing from one way to the other. Could she be bi-polar? Maybe some other mental disorder...depression, or severe homesick?  I am just thinking that maybe there is an explanation.

I am with the others here...tough love. Shape up, or ship out.

[Willy The Londoner]

I think once again John has dived into spreading out his emotions onto this forum at an early stage. As in previous case this is in frustration rather than a real sense of despair.  You will note that since posting it John has not been back so as on previous occasions it is likely to be another storm in a teacup that never was.

It is probably frustration on both of their parts and that is probably through lack of understandable translations between them. We may think our women understand everything but do they, do we understand exactly what they say?   I have no doubt that most on here have said things to their wife's and the wife has not really fully understood it and Visa Versa.

Remember it was not a month ago that she had been granted her visa application, presumably the next stage in citizenship, so she being Chinese, she wants to go back home and show everyone what a good choice she has made.  Hence the need to splash the cash to prove this to family and friends who may have poo hoo'ed the idea in the first place.  Hopefully it is that and not just a need to get back to to she did have before.

Maybe the fact that John has to work 7 days a week to provide for them may be problem lots of work and maybe not a lot left at the end of it.

We do not know but as we know this is not the first time that John has encountered problems with this relationship.  Maybe you all are right when you say make her change or call it a day I do not know as I have never had a failed marriage,  (well not yet so far. ) so it is hard for me to comment on that part but I am certain of one thing that John is very much in love and would do anything for this women, maybe that is  not recipricated  by both parties.

I hope that his silence on here since his last updating of this thread means that he and her are now back in contact and have resolved this current problem.

To make something work has to be from both sides.  I can see nothing positive in the 'Make her do as you say or ditch her attitude' that does seem to prevail on such occasions.

Willy

[john1964]

Well guys, Last night MinYing gave me a late call from HK airport, Her mood had changed and she was ok, My reply to her was blunt like she treated me before, now i think it was childish to play her at her game, I woke this-morning and looked at my phone, no missed calls or messages, She should have arrived at Beijing airport around 10;30 last night, I waited until around 10 am and then I could not resist to call her as i was worried, Her phone was switched off, Then i remembered that she has no international roaming on her phone so she must have used the WI FI at HK airport, Anyway, 12 pm came and she gave me a message on QQ, she was at the family home and she was fine and told me that she misses me, i told her the same, hopefully things are good now .
i thank everyone for their comments since posting last night, I dont give my wife an "allowance" as we have a joint account and she is free to do what she wants, MinYing also has been working here and i never ask her how much she gets or what she spends it on, My weekly pay is used for the roof over our heads and weekly living costs, food, bills ect, as for me working 7 days a week this is true, i have had 2 days rest in the last 8 weeks or so, I have a small business installing commercial windows and doors and now there is more work than me and my partner can handle during the week so we have to work weekends, It was not so long ago that the work dried up and I had no personal income for 3 months so this hurt me financially , now the work is there i will make as much money as i can, I left for work at 6 this-morning and arrived home at 5pm, but tomorrow i will rest, MinYing knows that I do like to keep busy and maybe the last few months have been difficult as we only have had a few hours together each day, i understand this.
As for my friend in Ningbo I deleted her from QQ, so no more contact with her,  I think with me working so many hours and her being alone sometimes she does feel homesick, I know i would if i was in a foreign country.
I explained AGAIN that I have spent around 4 months with her on my 7 or 8 trips to china and it was at great expense and also i came to be with her every time and never saw another woman.
Maybe one of her friends have been whispering in her ear, this is a possibility, She talks a lot to friends on QQ, maybe someone is saying that her foreign husband should give everything that she wants, i dont know.
As for going home and splashing the cash around, I gave her what we can afford at this moment, She also has the money from her job, I never see her buy anything with her pay so i think she has saved the money , We want to go to Thailand in January so i need to conserve some funds for this holiday too.
Im not ready to give up, this is the last thing on my mind right now, I will see how she is over the next few weeks and hopefully some time with the family will do her good.
Another thing about money, She told me that I took her debit card from her months ago, I told her that i never did this and emptied the contents of my wallet on the table and to my surprise there it was, She told me that she left it on the kitchen table and i took it, All i can think of is that i thought it was mine and put it in my wallet as im always leaving my card on the table after i give it to my son or daughter if they need it, i never looked at the name on the card just must have picked it up, my bad, I also have an old account which my ex pays her child support in to, I never closed this account as my son will be 18 soon and then the child support would stop, too much hassle to change accounts with child support so i left it active, she thought that i had a secret stash in this account so i showed her on the computer then she could see that there is minimum monies here and she was ok with this, I dont understand why to keep bottled up inside and not ask straight away, it just makes your mind think the worst,.
Anyway, things look rosy again and i hope they stay this way, John.

 

[fivetrout]

The one fact is clear...John is getting hurt. Whether she is doing it, or he is doing it to himself. She may have good reasons (in her mind) to lash out at him...insecurity, need for face, homesick, whatever. But that doesn't change the fact at how she's handling it! She chooses to inflict damage, rather then having a meeting of the minds and souls. This marriage has huge problems, and the fact John seems in the dark as to why she is acting out this way makes things worst. That being said, there are those here...that are defenders of these ladies under almost any circumstances, but most of us measure the quality of women by their actions, the willingness to communicate, and compassion. John has lost the ability to be the man and lead his marriage as in traditional roles. She has seized the opportunity to challenge him, and claim what she can. She is pushing and testing him and so now is the time for John to define what is acceptable and what is not! No man needs to tolerate her brat behavior, but it will continue unless he exerts a strong family leadership! 

[Willy The Londoner]

Well John.   I for one is pleased that you got things sorted once again. 

Take no heed of those that say you should teach her a lesson!

You decide what way you go as you are the guy who loves this women no one else.  I await to see what these other decide should they have any similar problems in the future.

Willy

[shaun]

I'm glad to see that you are working things out John.

I know there are differing opinions here and just a blanket teach her a lesson is not always a good course of action.  There are reasons why she acts the way she is acting.  A lot of it is cultural a lot is other Chinese women telling her that she should be able to act this way.  The best thing to do is to understand before you react.  Maxx's 24 hour rule really applies here.

Min Ying is not about to completely shoot herself in the foot on this issue.  Many of these women continually test their boundaries with their western men.  They don't understand us.

I think that a man standing his ground without understanding the dynamic of what is going on in the female mindset is as ridiculous and how the woman is acting.

Understanding, strategizing, and setting a milder course of action does not make a man any less of a man.  It makes him a better man and will lead him to a better relationship with his wife.

Understanding western men is at best difficult just as it is with us understanding Asian women.

[fivetrout]

A SOLUTION: A Chinese/American WOMAN counselor. Maybe then the issues on both sides will come to light?

[IrishGuy65]

Some of you may want to read, and re-read, this thread:  http://www.chnromance.com/index.php/topic,3627.0.html

I know my first thoughts were sa jiao in this case.  i think the link provided by Peter Arnold in that thread really helps explain a lot about Chinese women and some of their actions.   Whether or not this is the reason behind MinYing's actions or not, it will be helpful to reacquaint with the idea of sa jiao.