Author Topic: If you need advice and help from an in-service chnlove agency translator  (Read 28625 times)

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Offline Proteus

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Hi Maxx, you hit a vital question. As far as I know, agencies that work with chnlove have the required Liscence to introduce foreign men and chinese women for the purpose of marriage. This can be added to one of the advantages of chnlove serivce. As for other agencies, there is nothing wrong if they provide exclusively translation, but in actual cases, 99% exceeds their authorizations. Government connives their existence as long as they don't make trouble. So it's a game of hide and seek. When they get along well with their clients, chinese women, they have not much to fear. But if annoyed ladies unite, they are powerful. So far I've witnessed two big international marriage companies (one in Guangzhou, one in Shenzhen) shut down by government because of ladies accusations. Neither worked with chnlove.

Surely success fees vary according to different service and in difference agencies. chnlove has no power to set a unique standard for that. As I have stated in the end of my last post. Ladies does not care about or pay according to the quality or quantity of translation service they are offered but the RESULT. The connontation of this word will be enough to start another interesting and challenging post.

It's surely wise to refuse paying for bad quality service and avoid falling into such traps beforehand. And if there are disputes about success fee, you can resort to legal help. I understand sometimes success fee turns out to be a little tough for some females. And sometimes it's a price for them to pay for a supposedly free lunch.
« Last Edit: June 16, 2009, 12:39:02 am by Proteus »

Offline China Shark

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Proteous, when and should the success fee be paid. This to me seems like a moral question as well as an ethical one. In Ed's case I find it appalling that they asked even before he arrived. In my case the agency waited about a week before springing it on me. If the union doesn't work out I would think there should be at the very least a 50% - 75% refund of all monies paid. What exactly are the policies reguarding couples that do not work out. Curious to know how the agencies react to this situation. I would imagine though that they be extremely reluctant to give back any fees reguardless of the moral implications involved. Just my thoughts on the issue. If I go through Chnlove to find my soulmate I'll be dammed if I am paying any type of fee like this. I'de be happy to give the family tribute money yet will not give the agency a dime for this nonsense. It is the principal not necessarily the actual money.
China Shark
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Offline Proteus

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Thank you Mike for your thought-provoking comments. Your support is my energy to carry on. I feel our discussion has been brought to a tough stage. The topic of success fee is never an appealing thing because it casts a monetary hue on a holy affectation between souls.

The abuse of fee collection shows the chaotic legal orders and further more desperation of some chinese women to find a foreign husband. Their desperation makes them easy to be taken advantage of. I feel sympathy for some who are wrongly charged unnecessary fees. But success fee itself is necessary to make this trade go on.

It is ideal but practically impossible not to charge success fees or any other fees packaged in a large amount for chinese women. The reason lies in the difference between their motives and yours.

Generally speaking, you try to find love and are promised a chance; they try to find a family and are promised a result.

As long as your letters are translated and sent to the ladies you are writing properly, no matter if you become a couple or not, you don't complain.

As long as they are helped to find a husband and form a family in a better environment with a better life, no matter how their letters are processed, they don't complain.

So you pay according to the quality and quantity of translation work you are offered. They pay according to the result. chnlove's profit-making system supports this. They charge from you and never a penny from women. Women are left in the hands of agencies. (some chinese women choose the way you do on other sites such as Match, but they are few)

Therefore success fee is not an uncalled-for imposition upon them.

When to charge the fee meets ethical problems more than you know. There are honest women taken advantages of by agencies. There are also honest agencies taken advantages of by women. More often than not agencies try to charge as fast as possible even without plausible reasons while some women try to play tricks and avoid paying success fees and marry their men and go abroad secretly. Still I think contract is the legal foundation.

The disputes of timely paying success fee is never a problem we can solve in this single post. But I think what I reveal here touches more profound things. The comparision I made is a little arbitary and is only part of reality. I myself am still striving to find deeper reality and even truth. I wish you lads find it earlier than I do. :icon_cool:

Offline Neil

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The abuse of fee collection shows the chaotic legal orders and further more desperation of some chinese women to find a foreign husband.

I wonder if you would mind going into some of the reasons Chinese women want to find a foreign husband so desperately.  I mean, we've all read about the diferences between Chinese and foreign men's attitude toward women, what in your opinion drives that.  There are obviously many relationships that are working very well in China.  I've heard also that there is a large man to woman ratio in China.  

Not that I mind, I've got a beautiful girlfriend I love and plan to marry.
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Offline JimB

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Proteus,

I thank you for your thought provoking posts.  Your forthrightness helps us keep a balanced picture on this business.  I have two questions interlinked. 1.  There has been some discussion on how effective this group really is it he grand scheme of ChnLove, what is your opinion? 2.  From what I am reading in your posts, is that we would be better served to have our/the ladies band together to make the changes in this system.  
I would think the ladies would be upset over fake women and unfair fees or an agency that is known to be so bad that it is boycotted by any group.  Therefore cutting down the chances of them finding their "family".  And if that is the case, in your opinion, what would be the best method to get that information to the ladies themselves?
In my case I would refuse to pay any success fee.  In my case, the lady only received about 9 letters out of 60 or so EMF's.  She was almost dragged into meeting me when I came, as I had threatened them with political action if she was not there.  As it turned out DESPITE Chnlove NOT BECAUSE OF Chnlove she and i have fallen in love and are going to be married on my next trip.  My lady said she got the results she paid for. (That backs up what you have said).  I am with Mike on this.  I would not pay them one nickel because of their shoddy practices and this is from a shoddy agency. Market Garden in Beijing.  I know the results are there but I hate rewarding criminal and unethical behavior.  I think not fulfilling what I paid for in the EMF's by not delivering them or leading me on is at least unethical if not criminal in nature.
Maxx's 24 hour rule, learn it, live it.

Offline maxx

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JimB I think you make some good point brother.But the agencies would never let the ladies get together.And talk about the things we discuss.If the ladies did get together and talk.Half of theese agencies would be out of buissnes
Proteus I don't agree.With your statment.That the ladies don't care about the quality of the translation but the results.I know 3 women who were very angre when they found out the words that the translaters were putting in the letters.It was not a proper translation therefore it caused conflict.In the relationship.2 of the ladies worked it out with there Husbands.The third ladies translater was so bad that she was sending the letters to my wife.So that I could translate them to my wife and then she could send it to her friend.

The translaters need to be held accountable for there actions.The agencies need to be held accountable for there actions.Bad translation bad agencies.Are what is Ruinning Chnlove Buissnes.I know you told us that you are a translater.But maybe you could help Chnlove out and tell them how bad some of theese agencies are.There by helping theese guys out.And helping the ladies out.

As far as I know there is no numbers on how many relationships.The bad agencies and bad translaters have ruined.But I'm sure it is quite a few.And there is plenty of people.
« Last Edit: June 16, 2009, 10:48:52 pm by maxx »

Offline China Shark

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Maxx, extremely valid points. Proteous what kind of English level does your agency require of the working translators. I know from my experience teaching in Asia that many times native Chinese or native Japanese English teacher's English speaking skills are that of a five year old. The writing skills depends on how much they practice on a regular basis. If a translator majored in English in college yet hasn't really kept up on her English ability in years what is her actual translations like. I studied Japanese for a year in college yet haven't activelly practiced it in 10 years. Yes, I still speak the language yet have forgotten most of it. Luckily I just met a Chinese girl who also speaks Japanese. Point is that like Maxx said these people need to be held accountable for bad service. The ladies will never be given the opportunity to band together because it is not in the agencies best interest. Also, I'de like to point out just because you are employed in a specific field does not mean you are any good at your job. The time I've been on Chnlove I've run across some major misunderstandings with probably all the women I was in contact with. Fotunately it was sorted out usually the next letter. But a few I didn't decide to pursue the translation was childlike at best and was probably the deciding factor on cutting and running early. Now we are starting to get down to the nitty gritty with our issues. Ultimately we only want to be treated with respect and honesty. These agencies are only viewing the short term goals and not looking at the big picture. Yes, if we are without morals or ethics we can rake in the big money yet in the long term this thinking can only help destroy credibility. Ten years along the line is what these agencies should be looking at. Longevity is the priority they should have and not the quick buck today. I feel for the brothers stateside and in the other countries because 99% of them are forced to go through trial and error because of greed. I've been mulling over the whole Chnlove grand scheme of things and have come to the conclusion that in the beginning all of us were being taken for a ride. When I say that I mean the form profile, form letters for the first few responses. I have no problem with the translators coaching and helping what the women say yet I know from my own experience much of what was said was said just to supposedly help things along. That is fine and well yet after the two meet there isn't any real chemistry because the words were just what you wanted to hear and not necessarily the truth. Who's fault is it? The relationship could never work because it was really based on deception and not mutual compatibilty. The lucky ones that have succeeded I applaud thier perseverence and envy them somewhat. Little white lies is one thing but some of these agencies are just flat out criminals. If this were in the states these dirtballs would be getting put behind bars were they belong. The Chinese seem to think whatever it takes to make the money is okay, all in love and war is fair. It is a lot of garbage, the agencies and the people running them understand ethics they just refuse to acknowledge them. With that rant I would also like to say that I do think there are plenty of good agencies there because of the guys still getting engaged and married here. Proteous I am not on any other dating site but Chnlove at present. Right now I am not actively pursuing it because of time and money yet I still believe in it. It is much simpler meeting women right in my own city. Living here I know exactly where I stand in any relationship. No grey areas except for the usual with women in general. With this new thread all of the brothers have a better chance of avoiding the pitfall many of us has encountered.
China Shark Mike
Living life the way it should be. Following the path less traveled!!!!!!!!!

Offline Uncle Brucie

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i will comment on that

I am one of the ones that lost a lady to bad translator which in the end cost chnlove 24 credits , i really did care for this lady and someone there sure messed up translation on a couple of things and ended our relationship , he also tried to cover it up and made a bigger mess than what it would have been , i have no hope for ever getting a lady from chnl;ove , i am just glad that i did find one in a round about way , which we plan to marry at new years eve in hong kong

sorry had to vent


Bruce
My 2 cents  ????

Offline Ed W

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Quote from: 'Uncle Brucie' pid='5843' dateline='1245228364'

i will comment on that

I am one of the ones that lost a lady to bad translator which in the end cost chnlove 24 credits , i really did care for this lady and someone there sure messed up translation on a couple of things and ended our relationship , he also tried to cover it up and made a bigger mess than what it would have been , i have no hope for ever getting a lady from chnl;ove , i am just glad that i did find one in a round about way , which we plan to marry at new years eve in hong kong

sorry had to vent


Bruce


Bruce,
  What was the round about way?
Alright earthlings, what form do you want me to take?....How about a taco, ....that craps icecream?  My trip to china

Offline JimB

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I blame the microwave.  Get it now generation.  Dont wait for anything.
 Mike,  I think when you said "you" you actually meant "someone".  Just didnt want someone thinking you were attacking Proteus.
Maxx's 24 hour rule, learn it, live it.

Offline Uncle Brucie

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Ed

I got lucky i guess , seen a profile on another site , and one of the last days after i got fed up with chnlove i seen the same picture of a lady ,went back to the other site sent her a email , I have been talking with this lady out of chnlove's site since April almost everyday for  1 to 2 hour on QQ or msn or yahoo .I have met her mother ,father,daughter,brother and his wife .Since it was not on chnlove site i found her , but her profile was there , i will not have any of those fees and will never pay any of them to any agency.

 I got lucky and found the Lady for me


Bruce
« Last Edit: June 17, 2009, 07:15:46 pm by Uncle Brucie »
My 2 cents  ????

Offline JimB

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Congratulations Brucie, you are lucky enough to find someone whose English is good enough that you do not need a translator.  But that is rare.  At least in the beginning most need the translator until they feel comfortable enough to try on another venue.
Maxx's 24 hour rule, learn it, live it.

Offline Proteus

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I'm deeply grateful to your feedback. It is always my desire to know how the whole trade is run and through you I learn some first-hand information about other agencies running. When information are gathered, they come closer to truth.

Maxx I understand your disagreement and in the clients of our agencies I think there are still 20-30% who really care and insist in being genuine in their letters. Usually they are discouraged, with "good" reason, "advisers are more experienced in letter composition, and since you already you pay for the service, why still do what they promise to do for you?" ( mind you, translators are usually called advisers by chinese clients) :icon_cool: And you give me hints of situation in other agencies. If we can find out totally how many women really care for authenticity of their letters, we will have the answer.

My apology and request to Jim, can you make this question,"1. There has been some discussion on how effective this group really is it he grand scheme of ChnLove, what is your opinion?" into plainer English? My English needs still improvement.:blush: I will answer your questions together with it in next post.

Neil, thank you for your good questions. I agree there are cultural differences that leads to different ways chinese and western men treating women but surely we won't jump to say one is superior to the other, right? What you heard, in my opinion is a kind of cliche ads this trade produced. Praises for western men's good qualities, often in an exaggerated way, are seen in almost every agency's ads to women.
Now in china it is about 107 men : 100 women and the amount of men is continuing outnumbering women. But I think it's something government should worry and a backfire effect of some men's stubborn pursuit to have a son as successor of the family name.

More important question is still this one, why some Chinese women want to find a foreign husband desperately? The evidence is as clear and accessible to you as to me, the amount of fees they paid. Let's for convenience set the price of a credit as $5. If you decide to make a sincere effort to find a wife on this site, I think an innitial investment of 200 credits will be enough, which means $1000, about 1/30 of average American annual income. While on the side of women, it's common to see them pay more than 10000 RMB, only as an innitial fee and the whole price can amount to 50000 RMB ~ 100000 RMB. Average annual income for Chinese people in 2008 is 15781 RMB. Therefore sometimes they risk their total savings to gamble a result. In this sense, I call it desperation.

The psychology behind their dicisions are more difficult to analyse. I believe frustration in attpemts to marry in china and blind belief that all western countries are el dorado, agency ads are usually accountable for this too, are two major ones. Those women who easily fall into mercy of agencies are often less educated or informed of real overseas world. I am glad to see more and more chinese women are opening eyes to the whole world and become immune to agencies' misleading ads and can maturely pursue their happiness.

I understand in Bruce's and Jim's feeling to success fees in your examples, if I were you I would make the same choice as you did. I still have something to say about this topic, in next post before I make some preparation.

Mike, you and Bruce raised a new topic that I haven't paid enough attention before, qualification of translators. This is again something chnlove has no rights to control directly. They can only give pressure through their rating of the service agencies provide. As to their choice between long-term or short-term, I will say more in next post with some preparation.

see you soon. :icon_cool:
« Last Edit: June 17, 2009, 09:16:43 pm by Proteus »

Offline JimB

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Proteus,


My apology and request to Jim, can you make this question,"1. There has been some discussion on how effective this group really is it he grand scheme of ChnLove, what is your opinion?" into plainer English? My English needs still improvement.Blush I will answer your questions together with it in next post.

My apology for not making it easily understandable.  Your English is so good that we sometimes forget it is not your native language.

What I mean to ask is, What we call the Brotherhood here in this group of men, does Chnlove pay real attention to us as a Hornet with a stinger or just say what we want to hear in order to make a mosquito go away?
Maxx's 24 hour rule, learn it, live it.

Offline hellerjk

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This is a queston for Proteus,

First let me say that I am grateful for your presence and participation here.  It shows me that the people in the agency really do care about helping people connect.  From the things you share, I can see it appear in the communication between the lady I am corresponding with and myself.  I know it is her words but I can tell there is influence on the crafting of the message.  She is learning english and needs the translator services.  The influence I discuss I am seeing as a friendship sort of influence, very much like how friends give advice on relationships.

My question for you is around success rate. There are nearly 7000 women on chnlove.  Do you have a sense as to how many lead to successful marriage between cultures and how many of those marriages last?

Are there horror stories the women are sharing with the agencies regarding their experiences with the men they are meeting.  I would like to understand things from the women's point of view as I am becoming very fond of the women I met and would like to avoid mis-understanding's based upon cultural differences.

She & I talk about how one's views & outlook are important and that compatibility in this area is critical.  We noted that even within the same culture views & outlooks can be different.

Thoughts?