Chinese Mothers / Parents

[David S]

I saw this link on facebook, thought I'd share it here.  I'm sure there will be lots of comments, I thought she actually captured the differences rather well.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704111504576059713528698754.html

[lfputman3]

I have seen the difference, and as she says it's not just Chinese mothers, but mothers who don't hold to the panic stricken mindset we have developed in the west.

[halfpint]

That article shows one of the primary reasons my girlfriend says she's rather live in Canada.  Her 7 year old son studies for 4 hours everyday afterschool and has to take extra classes on Saturdays.  He has no friends, they are all too busy studying.  He will develop no social skills.  She doesnt like that.  The way my 9 year old daughter attends school reminds my girlfriend of what it was like for her, that's what she would like for her son.  On this point her and I feel the same way.  I am concerned about what my girl would have to do if I decide to move to China

[David E]

Gee David, you certainly know which Big Red Buttons to press !!!

This whole subject of child education/expectations/achievements is at the moment tearing our Education system apart.

At one end of the spectrum we have the "Chinese Mother" syndrome where children must be flogged to within an inch of their lives to achieve, achieve, achieve at all costs and the other end of the spectrum is a concerted drive to bring back "real" childhood.

Despite what faction any parent belongs to, it is healthy and normal for a parent/s to wish the best for their child or children. Within the boundaries of achieving an individual child's potential, they could turn out to be a Brain Surgeon or a Beach Bum.....or all things in between, this is life as we know it. Not every child can be perfect, not every child can get straight A's always.

The Western Education Model tends to accept this, and hopes only to provide a learning climate in which each child has the opportunity to reach their own potential....whatever it may be.

As a rule, Western parents tend not to view their children as providers of money, luxury etc for the parents or family, we dont see it that way, we hope our kids can get a good life, but we dont expect them to flog their asses off to "repay" us for the rest of their lives for being their Parents.

So let me ask....how much of this fanatical driving of Chinese children to achieve at all costs is truly done for the ultimate benefit of the child...and how much of it is done because a favourable outcome will solve the life problems of the parents ??/

This is known a "The Ugly Parent Syndrome" and is regarded in Modern Educational Theory as being horribly damaging to a child's psychology....as they say, let the child have a childhood...thats how nature intended it to be !!!

As usual, Chinese students here always take out the top honours in just about every Academic pursuit...except music, sport, social studies and geography !!!! and to listen to some of them...they are no longer humans...only learning machines, totally devoid of interpersonal and social skills !!!...and because of their high academic results, usually get the pick of the University Courses...Doctors or Lawyers. To visit a Chinese Doctor in Perth is an experience best forgotten !!!! I changed Doctors 8 times before I found a "Western Doctor" who could talk to me as a human being and interact about my total health care program...........not just be a prescriber of drugs and who had zero interest in me as a person.

[Arnold]

Boy this subject hits Home here with my Wife's 9 year old Son still in Shanghai .. til the end of this year . Qing and I talked about this for Hours one night . I stood my Ground on letting Him have a Childhood here with us ( as David mentioned ) . This brought back my own Childhood , which was great ( no TV ) who needed that anyway .. back then ? We knew how to keep ourselves Busy .. never to say .. I'm bored to anybody . How times have changed here , everything TV this Computer that and on top the Cellphone/Texting . So I preached to my Wife , when he comes here .. things will change .. not that he will not have to Study when due , but have Friends too .. which is now none existing . She saw my Point quite well and agreed with my View , as to bring her Son up more the western way . I also don't want a Machine as a Step-Son .

[Vince G]

Since my two daughters birth I only bought them educational toys. Games played were educational, and there were times I played dumb and had them correct me. When one teaches they remember it more. There were times they did their homework when with me on the weekend. But I never was a hoverer or demanded an A. If they did their best that was good enough for me.

In a recent visit it was told to me that my youngest is continuing on with her education to doctrine in Psychotherapy for disabled children. Though she isn't the first doctor in the family I am proud of her and she clearly got this from me. lol My other daughter was in college when she had her mishap. Now mostly wheelchair bound she spoke of being a college dropout. I discussed with her of going back but to do a online college? In all I must have done something right?

[halfpint]

Sounds like you did a lot right!

[lfputman3]

This is gonna sound a bit like a rant, so I apologize in advance if I offend anyone.

Having been through college and remembering how joyous psyche class was, I look back at my childhood and I am thankful.  I did get punished for grades at a C level and below.  My parents knew which three children should be getting As and that their oldest would be lucky to get such marks outside of shop class.  My brother is a very talented welder and mechanic, but he has a reading disability and easily led astray by the more tyrannical members of his religious affiliation.  This being said, my parents never let us quit anything during the year we committed to it.  If it was a sport, we had to play through the season, we needn't play in the future, but we had to finish the season we started.  We didn't drop/add/change classes in High School, although they did not say anything when I dropped a class in college one term going from 20 to 16 hours for that term.  That was suicidal anyway.  Now I look back and even in my psyche class, I realized my parents raised me in a supportive but firm manner, which seems to be one of our problems in the west.  I see my childhood friends and how the ones with the spoiling parents aren't really worth a damn, yeah, they have a paycheck, but their children are rude and disrespectful.

I would also point out, that we in western culture have become more materialistic and care more about ourselves and what we have than helping our families.  Yet I look at my own family, how either of my grandmothers could have been locked away in a home in their final days and it didn't happen, how I did know most of my great-grandparents because their children gave them a place to stay when they reached their 90s.  How I would rather go fishing in a small rowboat with my grandfather, or weed his garden on a Saturday instead of going to see the game.  Maybe there is something wrong with that.

I do agree there is a point at which you must step back, my parents gave me that leniency.  We do not want automatons for children, but when I wasn't studying or involved in a club/sport or practicing a musical instrument, I was outside, with my friends, playing in the barn, or the creek and usually getting a chewing for coming in the house covered in mud, or other substance.

The point, there is a happy medium on all things in life, but my parents expected good grades, their parents expected good grades and even my great grandparents expected good grades.  Even though they were mostly farmers and factory workers, it was still expected and there was no psychological trauma or mental illness.  For some reason, we just decided somewhere in the 70s and 80s, who cares, it's just a grade and your best is good enough.  Unfortunately, a best effort, doesn't equal a best result in the real world.

OH and David E.  What do you mean Asian do not excel at music???  What planet are you on?  Maybe the recording industry keeps them off the pop charts in the US/UK and Canada, but there are some very amazing Asian musicians in all genres of music.  Most that are known in the west are involved with classical music, but they are there and they can play the pants off most other people and do it with great passion in their music.

[David E]

I am on Planet Earth....and there is no need to be offensive thank you. Please read my post properly. I did not say that Asians dont excell at music...I said that the only academic prizes that Asian students did not win in Perth was music etc.......

Obviously they may well excell in music...but somebody "not Asian" excelled a little better.....in Perth anyway...and I neither know or care about any other statistics.

Further more...you are wrong in your assessment that "A best effort does not equal a best result in the real World". The whole point is that if we have given something our BEST effort, then that is all we can ever do..... Our BEST......the result or the Grade is only but a statistical consequence of that effort, and for each individual, the BEST effort IS the best result in the real World. There may be others with better outcomes than that, but that is an effect, not a cause.

[Chong]

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/life/family-and-relationships/confessions-of-a-tiger-mom-why-chinese-parenting-is-best/article1864813/

Funny ... this article was in today's Toronto newspaper. As I post this link, there was 356 comments to the subject.

[lfputman3]

David, I did attempt to apologize in advance but I must point out.  My profession, accounting, best efforts are not good enough, my profession when I was in the army, helo mechanic and flight crewman, best effort, definitely not good enough, perfection was the only standard, because one man 'giving it his best shot' and calling it good, can get people killed.  It is the concept of, "well, I gave it my all" that gives politicians the excuse for blundering national government budgets and crooked businessmen the ability to get away with fudging the books and collapsing major corporations, even after they have been warned repeatedly that their practices would cause such a problem.

So with my past, my present and the example of stupidity both of our governments, I stand by my statement.  If it offends you, I apologize, I do not support authoritarian parenting, nor do I support the idea that education is self paced.  Maybe I am a little harder on the thought process than others, but I have also seen my poor sister-in-law have to call in the state board of education because her principal and superintendent for the school district she works in say, 'they gave they best effort, they deserve a diploma, even if they don't meet state requirements for graduation.'

[Irishman]

That is a fascinating article, I'm very curious to hear my lao po's opinion on it!
Personally I find myself agreeing with some points and not others. Some kids will be more inclined towards physical activities and others towards academia, how else would we have athletes - maybe this is why China never seems to win at any off the major sports in the Olympics?
Some kids will never be A students no matter hard you push them , for example in school i was always better at maths than languages , by far. Whereas my wife is the complete opposite. I guess it boils down to knowing your own kids strenghts and weaknesses and being realistic.

[maxx]

I think Irishman has got the right answer.Not every kid is going o be a Michael Jordon.Or a Albert Einstein.What the kid does need.Is support.And a firm hand.To show them what is right and what is wrong.And as parents we need to remember.To not commit the same mistakes are parents did.

[Paul Todd]

It is a constant amazement to me everyday to see the time and effort Chinese students have to put into there schooling. It is not unusual for a high school student to have 4 hours of homework every evening and has been said, more classes at the weekend.
A couple of weeks ago the head of our department a very nice lady was called out of the university to go and collect her son from school. I thought he must have been taken ill or had an accident. I found out latter that he had failed to do a piece of homework assigned to him and as a result was humiliated in class and made to sit outside the teachers office until his mother came to collect him. He is 9 years old and was in tears, very upset by the whole thing. His mother had words with the teacher and told him he did not have the right to send her son home.
In the west we often help our kids with their homework but in China it can be formal requirement too.The same teacher I mentioned before told me that she has to sign a form sent by the school saying that she spent 2 hours explaining and helping her child with his homework, and this too is not unusual. When I questioned her about this she said it was because the class sizes where so large 60+ is average and that there were also a lack of teachers? The teaching style is different too,very authoritarian and as a result the kids are often given a hard time if the make mistakes and this does not help their confidence at all.
When I get a new batch of students one of the first things I say is that I like mistakes, mistakes are good things. After the total look of confusion has passed I explain that this is how we learn, it takes them a while to open up and realise they are not going to be given a hard time for messing up. Getting them to give their opinions on things is also extremely difficult but once they have the confidence you can't stop them!
You can add into this the effects of the one child policy here too. This tends to focus all parents hopes and dreams on to their only child and increase the pressure as well. It's a far cry from my school days and university life here is not based around beer, music and girls either! Some might say that is a good thing but my student days were truly momentous! and I would not change them for the world!

[Zhuzhu]

I guess the mother in this article stands for some of the strict Chinese mothers, but not all. I guess her kids are in their 20s, just as my age. I say this is because my mother was also so strict to me and my sister when we were young.

I remember when I was a little girl, my class scores should not be less than 90 (100 is the full scores). My mother was very strict at our studies. Parents always concern more than the kids about their study. When I was not old enough for primary school, I already knew how to count from 1 to 100. My parents wanted me to be more excellent when I started school. When learnt to do math in add and subtract within the numbers of 10, my parents taught me to do within 20. it was really difficult for me when I was in that age. Once I did wrong and did not know how to do it, a shout or a slap on bum would be done to me. hehe I had a not pleasant childhood. When we grow up, we know that my parents just want us to be better than others and live a better life than others. They know that only education can change our life to be a better one.

When I was in high school and I really could not understand a word of our math teacher, our physics teacher and our chemistry teacher, I wanted to quiet school. My mother was so sad about that and tried her best to convience me to go to school. She told me many stories about whoes daughter did not have enough education and ended marrying a farmer, and whoes daughter did not have enough education and ended doing farmer work, and whoes daughter had been to university and now worked in a big company and had a big salary, etc. These daughters are the real persons in our village and we all know this. Also she told us how hard she and my dad worked to suppor our tuition fees, and we had no reason not to study hard. At this stage, she had changed her way in supervising us, from being strict to begging us.

I know there are many other parents do the same as my parents, but there are also many do not care so much about girls reveiving more education. My uncle’s two daughter did not have enough education and now they only work for factories and earn very little salary and got married at very young age. Last September when I, my husband and my father went to my hometown for my passport, we met one of my cousin. She rented a very small room in my county and worked there with her husband and little son. When we were in her room, she told us about there sitiation. My father olny said one sentence and made her cry there. My father said if only she had received more education, she would not live a life like this. I was very sorry to her current finacial situation and also sad at her crying and I tried to change a topic about her son so that she would not cry there.

I know my parents are quite proud of me and my sister coz we both get our Bachelor's degree. She got her Bachelor's degree in Science and I in Art. It means that we can easily find a good job and do not need to work outside like farmers or work in a factory. We can work indoors, good working environment. (In China, those earn high salary do not need to work outside to suffer the hot or cold weather.) It is not so often in my hometown coz parents could not afford their education. My parents worked very very hard to support us. so we have no reason not to study hard.

Well, this is just the stories on me. I am sure there are also many other stories to see. Personally I thank for my parents for what they have done to me and my sisiter, but I do not support their way. some of those are OK, but some are not. Like the article, I think some of them are very good and I can learn from this to teach my future kids, but not all. Kids are kids, study is not like job. We should develop our kids’ talents in all aspect. Sports are very good for kids too. Chinese parents in the past did not care about sports at all. That’s why China does not have a good football team so far among 1.38billion people.