2nd Stumbling Block

[zook144]

Haven't posted for awhile. But this just came up with my lady today, so thought I would run it up the flagpole and see what you think. I must say right off the getgo that I already know how I feel about this and what I will probably tell Lili. But how to tell her is the tricky part. I knew something had been on her mind for a few weeks. Things were just different in our conversations each day. So today she says she has something to discuss. So, i brace myself and say "ok, what?". Notice how I come right to the point as opposed to how I have learned most Chinese ladies go round and round about something. And then sometimes you still don't get an answer. (No offense to the Chinese ladies on this forum ) Anyway, she says," if I come to U.S., I want my son to come with me. I will miss him too much." Now, this did not come as a shock. I figured it would come up sooner or later. Her son is 20 years old and attends a university in Beijing. I am not sure how many more years he has left. I tell her, I do not know the procedure for this as far as visa's and such and will find out some details and think about it. After a little more prodding for information, I know the college in Beijing costs 30000 yuan per year. I tell her it would cost about 5 times that amount here in the states. I'm guessing, but I figure that is close. And that i don't have that kind of money to put her son through college. As she pays for it now, but wouldn't be working over here for some time initially. I asked a few more questions...."have you discussed this with your son"....yes.....does he want to leave China....yes.....How long have you known this is what you want...."since we started the visa papers"....!  Which has been about 2 months ago.   So, anyway, the visa process is already started. Paperwork sent in. So, now what?  Having a 20 year old young man in the house full time won't work. No need to try. I know.   Not to mention supporting him for 1 or 2 years. I met him and he seems like a nice young man. But it wouldn't matter if he was going into the priesthood.  I know it wouldn't work. So here I sit, wanting to take a nap on my day off work, but have this matter on my little pea brain.  I don't know  if this is a deal breaker, but guess I'll find out soon enough.
Any suggestions? I'm sure someone has faced this problem with their ladies.
Napless in Virginia......well, maybe I can work one in...
Don

[shaun]

Don that is exactly what happened to me recently.  Peggy out of the blue wanted to bring her son with her and he is 20.  He will be 21 early June.  Peggy said it had always been like the.  My only response was OK let me see what I can do.

We quickly got his paperwork in order and called the consulate since we had already sent the information back in P-3.   It was not a problem just a lot of hoops to run through quickly.

I was given three options with two of them being terminators in the end.  1. Fill out the paperwork and hope for the best.  2. fill out paperwork and have him follow in about six months.  3. Fill out the paperwork and have hime travel with her before his 21st birthday. Options 2 and 3 the marriage will need to be completed and the paper work sent in asap.  Option 2 is good but if American Immigration changes their mind he can be left in the airport to return to China.  Option 3, the best, He moves here with his mother and if the US says no then they might change their minds since he is already here.

I almost forgot.  Here son will have to go to the interview with her and it will cost another $350.00 for his interview.  How is his English? Everything that applied to her applies to him too.  Do you have the income of 150% over poverty to support him?    You see everything changes with the son added to the picture.  If he is going to graduate in two years and he is over 21 forget it.

[Arnold]

So Don , I see this ..

you can not affort to put him through College here ..
you can not have a 20 year old living full time with you ..
by your post you wont change your Mind on these two items ..

now Lili will not come without her Son ..
unless you find it in your power to change her Mind ..

this Relationship is pretty much over with .

Remember though , a Chinese Mom is responsible more so ( no matter what the Age of her child ) than you are used to . That goes for double when he is still in College . Second , College in China is NOT recogized here in the States as equal .. as the other way around . So forcing him to finish there before you decide to bring him over is NOT a good idea . So you see , your not much left with really .. unless YOU give in and agree to her wishes . This really leaves only two options for you , which I would definitely would loose sleep over myself .. but if your REALLY in Love with Lili as I'm with my Wife ... guess what I would do ?

[David E]

Don

Tricky little problem you have got there !!!

You dont say what the alternatives are for the Son, if he stays in China...does he have relatives to stay with, to feed him and look after him ??.....is his Father anywhere in the picture ??

The issue is lkely to be that your wife would not want to leave him there alone. If he has support within the family in China and thus would not be cast alone after Mum left, it may be possible to duck this issue

If Mum is his only support...then she cannot just up and leave him...no Mum could I guess.

David

ps

Shaun..."Shaogun berry Hill"...dont have quite the same ring as Blueberry !!!
Arnold...are you really using a deadly weapon in your back yard...and are you shooting at an apple on Quing's head

[Scottish_Robbie]

what about YOU living in China...... Is that an option, or do es everything have to be about 'Going to the States?

[sara]

Don
   he would surppot all her kids' fee include going the college and the others if a chinese lady would remarry a chinese man. that is chinese culture too .
   in fact a lot of chinese ladies think they would take their kids to USA or UK after married the west. in china the kids are more important than the others families' member. a lot of chinese ladies are willing to do anything in order to help their kids have a nice life.
  that's just my thought.
Sara

[maxx]

Don pay close attention to what Sara posted.You are not going to separate that mom from her boy.Unless the boy is married.Then it mite be a little easier.What is he studding in college.Some of it does transfer over.To the states.

[Pineau]

You are my age and probably think you have worked hard the past 40 years and been down life's road and earned your right to settle back with a lovely Chinese woman and enjoy the rest of your life. No compromises. That would be great. That was my mindset as well but life is not that simple. I had some pretty tough requirements when I first set out looking for my Chinese bride and one of them is NO KIDS. Well I have a 10 year old step daughter that I decided was not such a big problem as I thought in the beginning. But girls are easier to handle than boys for sure. I had a horrible experience with my stepson and for many reasons I am glad to be rid of him. 

You said yourself that having a 20 year old man around the house full time wont work. I understand why and I agree with you.

But you've got real serious problem. If you went into the relationship knowing what you wanted and made it clear to her what the "deal" is from the beginning and she agreed then you should not feel guilty in backing out.

You also have every right to stand your ground and not flex on this. She knew and agreed but all along she had this in the back of her mind then she has deceived you. The same is true if by omission she never brought it up or let you know that it was a possibility,again, she has deceived you. She must have known it could be a show stopper because she has been beating around the bush for a long time. So I think you have a motive to walk away without any guilt. 

But you probably dint want to walk or you would not be asking for help sorting it out.
What do you want? That a really tough question.

Here is a couple things I a know, or have heard.

You are someone special to her but her son is and always will be as special as you (maybe more special). If you accept him into your home and family she will make him a priority. This is not iron clad but most Chinese mothers believe this. If you are jealous in any way this will become a problem in the future. 

You are her soulmate and it is your responsibility to make her happy. If you reject her son now , after she has revealed her desire to bring him with her, then you are not making her happy. You are squashing one of her dreams. She may walk away from you -or- accept your decision and secretly resent you for a very long time.

So the genie is out of the bottle and you cant put him back. She wants this and you dint and you both feel strongly about it. So its time to compromise or walk away.

Is walking away an option. Could you do that without breaking your own heart? Would you regret it? Do you want to start over?

If supporting him and putting him through college is a real problem then there are some options it they are willing to compromise.

He can stay in China where education and living will be a lot cheaper. Three years down the road she can become an American and SHE can sponsor him and bring him to America. Put him to work as soon as he arrives. BTW: If you sponsor him you are responsible for his upkeep for the next 10 years or until he becomes an American.

Bring him to America and as soon as he gets his green card ship him straight back to China to finish his education. Once he has his green card, he has his foot in the door and travel back and forth without problems.

Whatever you come up with is going to change your life and have a daily affect for the next ten or more years. You know what you want and you know what will make you happy. Are you willing to compromise?

[zook144]

Thanks guys.  One thing I have learned since I posted is that I don't love Lili enough to bring her 20 year old son to the U.S, support him for 4 or more years and go into debt $80,000 or more while he starts all over in college because the U.S. doesn't recognize Chinese colleges.  Thanks Arnold.
I appreciate that.  Living in China is an option I would consider. At least part of the time.  Later.  After I retire. which hopefully will be in 4-6 years.  However, Lili, not me is the one that says she would rather live in U.S. I have asked her this several times.  Which, originally, made me wonder if that was the objective. But now i don't think so.
Also, David E. , her son is in Beijing, she lives in Mianyang. Her Mother is still there along with her brother. So yes, there is family.
Understand, I have nothing against the son coming to U.S. I figured that would happen anyway. Eventually. I knew she would get homesick and miss all of her family for that matter. I mentioned this fact to her.  And at the time, she said talking on internet and visiting China would be enough. I guess she has realized it is not enough. Let me mention here, also, that I myself have no children.  So this would all be new to me.  That is why I am 98% sure this would not work. I am saying it would not be the son's fault. it would be mine. When i was a teenager, i started working on my own during summer months and more or less making my own way and money. I worked for the railroad in a fairly high stress job.  Don't get me wrong, i had great parents who supported me in most everything i did. My mother just passed away last month. She was almost 92. And I never forgot that support her and my Father gave me.  But I can not see me dishing out that kind of money for a 20 year old that I hardly know.   you can say what you want and think what you want. But this is a huge decision for me.
By the way, I did get that nap in.  ha
Don 

[zook144]

Thanks for the PM, Arnold.  I posted before i read it.

[Arnold]

I don't love Lili enough to bring her 20 year old son to the U.S, support him for 4 or more years

Don , with this statement .. you just answered yourself that very difficult question .. what should I do . For when you really in Love with a seemingly wonderful Woman that is second to none , you would do anything for her including taken in Son/Daughter or both . Is that not right ? I also figure , you have thought HARD and GOOD before you let Lili go .. I hope ?

[zook144]

No, Arnold. That is what you sounded like you were implying with your first post.  I was just saying that is one of the things I learned from reading your post.
Don

[Arnold]

No, Arnold. That is what you sounded like you were implying with your first post.  I was just saying that is one of the things I learned from reading your post.
Don

Gotcha !!

[David E]

I have been thinking a lot about Don's dilemma, and I think we all know that its a toughie.

The issue is clearly about what we will or will not accept within our relationships...a difficult assessment to make when we have on our "rose coloured glasses" !!!

So here is a bit of applied psychology which hopefully you might find interesting. It is called a modified Maslow's Heirarchy and is a common psychological tool.

If you have a spare hour, sit down and take a sheet of paper and write down all the qualities/traits/physical/mental and behavoural characteristics you would like to have in your "perfect partner"
Be honest, be detailed and be as trivial as you want. Dont leave anything out...if big boobs are on your wish list...put them in  You can end up with hundreds of individual things that you "wish" for.

It works just as well for men and women, so you girls out there can do it too.

Now go away, have a break, get a cup of tee/coffeee/beer or whatever and come back to it after a while.

Now...be brutally honest with yourself and cross out ALL those individual items that you know deep down are not so vital...big boobs might be one of them...or not 
Cross out those items that you truly believe are in the "nice to have" but are not in the "essential to have" category.

I venture to suggest you will cross out about 50 % of your list..that is about the usual number.

What you are left with are the absolute critical characteristics that are basically non-negotiable for you in your Partner and if they are not fulfilled, then you run the real risk of problems sometime down the track.

For Don's specific case, I think that "no dependant children coming to live with us" would be on the "must have" list.

What Don has done (and it is difficult, but admirable) is to say ...I dont love her enough to compromise on one of my critical components. That takes a strong and brave Man to do it.
Most of us would attempt to make the compromise, believing that true love conquers all...Don has got the truth of it.....it does not conquer all and he knows his limits.

Remember, it is not the good things about our partner and our relationship that bring it down, it is those things that are real or imagined red-flags and those things that were always outside of our real needs......in many cases we made the original compromise because of emotion...maybe we should not have.

Have fun...give it a try...knowlege is power.

David