Dreaded ChnLuv questions....from a new guy ...

[seagull]

Some people may not have had any problems with Chnlove but in general there are very few benefits using this site over say, Chinese Love Links. I used Chnlove in the past and had difficulties, was scammed a couple of times. In the end I joined CLL, and met a nice lady from there. I recently made the trip to China and because I had direct communication with the lady before leaving, there were no nasty surprises when I arrived and things generally went well. Anyway, here are some reasons I could think of why Chnlove is not worth using over other sites:

1. Chnlove is vastly more expensive than CLL and most other sites. With Chnlove you spend a small fortune paying for each EMF you send to a lady and are also charged when she replies to you. With CLL, you pay for your membership for a set period and can contact any member on the site. It doesn't cost anything extra once you have paid your membership fees and you can contact as many people as you like. Chnlove is designed around lining the pockets of agencies.

2. You must communicate through an agency with Chnlove, whereas in most other sites you have direct communication with ladies. So you are never talking with a lady directly, which brings me to #3.

3. You are often wondering if the woman you are communicating with is real or not. There is always that doubt about her and if the agency is playing tricks. Are you writing to a translator and being scammed for EMF credits? Even if you do establish direct contact with a lady, you will always be thinking about which EMFs were real and which ones were written by an agency. Even if the agency was legit, talking with a loved one through a third party isn't a healthy way to have a long distance relationship. With other web sites where you have direct contact with other members, this is one huge concern that does not exist.

4. Chnlove agencies are famous for doctoring photos of women, or only posting studio pics so you have no idea what the lady really looks like. So in addition to not knowing if she is real (the above two points), you are also in doubt about whether she will look in real life anything like she does in the studio photos. There have been examples posted on this forum of how clever agencies are at doctoring images. While in CLL for example, most women post real photos. And if they don't, you can always ask them for a real pic as you are in direct contact with them, and it doesn't cost you anything extra. So if things do not work out, no financial loss at all.

5. If you do make the trip to China, agencies may charge very large fees to women for you visiting them. If the relationship is successful, more fees may be incurred, e.g. a marriage fee. Of course, this depends on the agency, some may not charge these fees, but from what I have heard, most of them do. Again, this is something that simply doesn't exist on other sites like CLL.

6. If you do go to China and have a successful meeting, what happens then? Are you going to be communicating through a third party forever and paying extortionate fees for EMFs? What kind of relationship is it where you have to use a middle man to communicate with the love of your life? Chnlove tries to create a dependency on agents/translators. It works for some people, but not for me.

The only advantages of using Chnlove I could think of:

1. Most of the ladies there are looking for marriage. While on CLL some are only looking for friendship, language exchange, etc. But this isn't a big deal as you can filter these people out of your searches on CLL.

2. If you do visit a Chnlove lady in China, if things do not work out, the agency may be able to introduce you to another lady. While with CLL you are left on your own unless you took the time to network.

But that said, I really can't see the benefit of why anyone would want to use Chnlove compared to other sites. There are too many risks involved, and you are placing too much power into the hands of a third party. It is too easy for things to go wrong. The risks far outweigh the benefits compared to using other web sites like CLL.

[Willy The Londoner]

Chnlove is a business they are not a non profitmaking organisation. They make a profit otherwise there would not be a chnlove  website.

All websites need to make a profit . How much you contribute to is is your choice.  But are esso, macdonalds, kfc, and are rest like them all thieves because they make a profit.  Do not tell me that a McDonalds in value for money.

You know I was a partner in a china dating site and you would not believe the lengths some people would go to to save just 5 dollars.

You want it cheap then go buy a magazine at the bookstall.

Willy

[Chong]

First thing is ... learn some Mandarin.

Second, take a trip "inside" China ... lol ... [ airport joke ]. meet as many people as possible through networking.

Third, you won't know if the lady's right for you until you actually meet.

Fourth ... combine points # 2 and # 3.

My wife had no problem signing a pre-nup. A pre-nup also protects her as well ... i.e a post marriage settlement in case your marriage doesn't work out.

My thoughts on the quality of ChnLove ladies as you're looking for a professional young lady ... you'll find one but not both together. They're either young with a general labour job or older whose's a professional but divorce with/without a child. You'll rarely find a young professional, especially a doctor, lawyer or teacher. If you do find one, the profile may not be legit.

IMHO.

[Pineau]

Chnlove is a business they are not a non profitmaking organisation. They make a profit otherwise there would not be a chnlove  website.

All websites need to make a profit . How much you contribute to is is your choice.  But are esso, macdonalds, kfc, and are rest like them all thieves because they make a profit.  Do not tell me that a McDonalds in value for money.


Willy

Yes Willy if you are in business you are obliged to make a profit for your stockholders. Business for profit was not the question here. An HONEST profit is do to anyone that EARNS it.  I don't consider legitimate businesses thieves. But on the other hand I don't consider Chnlove a legitimate business either.  The guy is asking for pros and cons about Chnluv.

I have never had McDonalds charge me for a hamburger and give me anything other than a real hamburger. And for the most part the hamburger looks very much like the one on the menu. And none of the waiters are feeding me hype about it having magical properties.  No surprises. You get what you purchased at the price advertised.

Since you have introduced this restrant analogy, lets put it to good use. 

Suppose there is a restaurant and they have a marvelous menu of wonderful dishes with beautiful photos of each dish. They are doing great business but over a period of time a few customers are starting to complain. Some discover that the food is not the same as pictured in the menu and the waitress was misrepresenting the food. And for heavens sake someone that ordered a beef steak found out it was really dog.  Now after a while the complaints are beginning to accumulate. 

What is a responsible business owner to do?
1. Nothing, they are making far too much money to change any business practices.
2. Cover up the problem and pretend that it does not exist. keep raking in the money.
3. Blame it on some of their vendors and over zealous waitresses.
4. Fire the waitresses or put them on strict probation.
5. Sever all ties with the cheating vendors to regain your integrity.
6. Make restitution with the customers by compensating them for their losses.
7. Do a thorough investigation followed by a house cleaning from top to bottom including all external vendors.

What is the customer and a good citizen to do when asked about the restrant?  Could you recommend this restrant to your friends or family if half of the customers were being cheated. How about just one third. Or ten percent or just one percent.

What if it was you or a friend that was the one in a hundred that got the dog?  Could you ever recommend this restrant to one of your friends?  I couldn't and I wouldn't. Even if I got steak each and every time I ordered steak. If I knew of only one instance of a friend having documented proof that he had been swindled I could not possibly stand and defend this business's right to make a proffit at the expense of the naive public.

If you had a wonderful experience with Chnlove by all means share it (with a disclaimer), but if your experience was mundane or average don't turn it into a testimonial of their goodness. 

I like visiting Mexico. I sometimes drink the water and I have not got sick. PLEASE don't interpret that as a testimonial of the purity of Mexico's water.  I've just been lucky. I do not recommend it to anyone.

Gosh I am tired of this topic. I think I will refrain from posting about Chnlove for a while. It just raises my blood pressure every time.

[Mikael_Shim]

Chnlove is a business they are not a non profitmaking organisation. They make a profit otherwise there would not be a chnlove  website.

All websites need to make a profit . How much you contribute to is is your choice.  But are esso, macdonalds, kfc, and are rest like them all thieves because they make a profit.  Do not tell me that a McDonalds in value for money.


Willy

Yes Willy if you are in business you are obliged to make a profit for your stockholders. Business for profit was not the question here. An HONEST profit is do to anyone that EARNS it.  I don't consider legitimate businesses thieves. But on the other hand I don't consider Chnlove a legitimate business either.  The guy is asking for pros and cons about Chnluv.

I have never had McDonalds charge me for a hamburger and give me anything other than a real hamburger. And for the most part the hamburger looks very much like the one on the menu. And none of the waiters are feeding me hype about it having magical properties.  No surprises. You get what you purchased at the price advertised.

Since you have introduced this restrant analogy, lets put it to good use. 

Suppose there is a restaurant and they have a marvelous menu of wonderful dishes with beautiful photos of each dish. They are doing great business but over a period of time a few customers are starting to complain. Some discover that the food is not the same as pictured in the menu and the waitress was misrepresenting the food. And for heavens sake someone that ordered a beef steak found out it was really dog.  Now after a while the complaints are beginning to accumulate. 

What is a responsible business owner to do?
1. Nothing, they are making far too much money to change any business practices.
2. Cover up the problem and pretend that it does not exist. keep raking in the money.
3. Blame it on some of their vendors and over zealous waitresses.
4. Fire the waitresses or put them on strict probation.
5. Sever all ties with the cheating vendors to regain your integrity.
6. Make restitution with the customers by compensating them for their losses.
7. Do a thorough investigation followed by a house cleaning from top to bottom including all external vendors.

What is the customer and a good citizen to do when asked about the restrant?  Could you recommend this restrant to your friends or family if half of the customers were being cheated. How about just one third. Or ten percent or just one percent.

What if it was you or a friend that was the one in a hundred that got the dog?  Could you ever recommend this restrant to one of your friends?  I couldn't and I wouldn't. Even if I got steak each and every time I ordered steak. If I knew of only one instance of a friend having documented proof that he had been swindled I could not possibly stand and defend this business's right to make a proffit at the expense of the naive public.

If you had a wonderful experience with Chnlove by all means share it (with a disclaimer), but if your experience was mundane or average don't turn it into a testimonial of their goodness. 

I like visiting Mexico. I sometimes drink the water and I have not got sick. PLEASE don't interpret that as a testimonial of the purity of Mexico's water.  I've just been lucky. I do not recommend it to anyone.

Gosh I am tired of this topic. I think I will refrain from posting about Chnlove for a while. It just raises my blood pressure every time.

Lol, funny comparision. And yes, its not just funny it actually has several good points. Personally, i dont think chnlove are to blame for the high rates of scams, the local agencies are. The fact that Chnlove doesnt really have any quality assurance for their mainland partners (agencies) and that they undoubtedly are aware of the problems but dont seem to bother much about it as long as the $ keeps flowing in is another thing, remember this is China and well.... they do business a bit different here ;-). I didnt personally have any issues with chnlove that i werent able to adress to the agency and they acted professionally and serious after i politely but firmly asked to be spared the sugar coating. In the end however, i did not meet my girl through chnlove. Knowing what i do now, and as i now live in China. The best recommendation i could give is to simply haul your ass over here, no need for these agencies or any dating sites at all unless you need them because you feel you lack the social ability to make direct contact with women without any prior "virtual" contact. Good luck

[Vince G]

I can debate the restaurant analogy, but I won't. Maybe he was hungry when he wrote it but I have a habit of cutting it short and getting to the root of things.

Knowledge, is all you need.
If your over 50 and a 20 year old promises "love you long time"… and you go for it? Who is to blame?

If you know the photos get photoshopped? and you choose to believe differently? Who's to blame?

If you base your relationship just on EMF's? Who's to blame?

And for the thousandth or maybe the two thousandth time, women sign up with the agency, not Chnlove.

I have been on Chnlove a few years now. There has been ups and downs but never ripped off. If I felt the woman was fake? I stopped writing. I have had real email addresses and phone numbers. I know because I used them.

Use your big head.

[Scottish_Robbie]

I can debate the restaurant analogy, but I won't. Maybe he was hungry when he wrote it but I have a habit of cutting it short and getting to the root of things.

Knowledge, is all you need.
If your over 50 and a 20 year old promises "love you long time"… and you go for it? Who is to blame?

If you know the photos get photoshopped? and you choose to believe differently? Who's to blame?

If you base your relationship just on EMF's? Who's to blame?

And for the thousandth or maybe the two thousandth time, women sign up with the agency, not Chnlove.

I have been on Chnlove a few years now. There has been ups and downs but never ripped off. If I felt the woman was fake? I stopped writing. I have had real email addresses and phone numbers. I know because I used them.

Use your big head.

VINCE....WHOSE TO BLAME???

[ChinaTraveler]

Wow...many passionate views here...Like I wrote before,  I am a patient man . I already have booked a needed business trip to China...so will extend it for a two week period to have a look around. I am not in any hurry .....but a person needs to set goals and a time frame...I thank you all for your views...and of course a picture does emerge .
I will try both sites...already have purchases one large block of "credits" from Chnluv. It is pricy ...yet much much less than one date night here in LA . I have had an interest with Chinese women for many years and a several years relationship with a LA born chinese girl. (Her family  sent her brother back to China when it was time to search for his bride....enough said) Will try to manage Chnluv well with a extra cautious eye.....! I think what most people suggested was best ...get them off the EMF to msn or qq and video chats to see the real person. What she is like ...how she handles questions... but to be fair still buy the occasional gifts thru the agency .. I am already set up for both . Will also spend some time on Chinese Love Links..already chatting a few there..! For me I think this will take time . This is an amazing site ....thank you all of the "brothers" out there .
Everybody's view has helped me form a collective sense of things...special thanks to the suggestions and comments from Chong and Mikael_Shim....easy to agree with what I had already figured out from my research. Will start hitting the books for some language skills (for the next few years I suspect) and as both have suggested. I am  looking  ahead and will start spending "face" time in China in the coming years.
This is an amazing resource for guys like me .....again Thank you !

[ITguy]

Ahhh, come on you guys, what's not to like about 5 buckerino EMF's, Hahahaha ! 

Ya, things can get pretty wild when you’re writing a number of ladies, that can get expensive real fast !! Hahaha ! 

I thought I would chirp in here to give my 2 cents, errrrr... I mean...yuan's worth on some of my experience.

I would have to say I am somewhere in the middle, I would not say I am for Chnlove nor would I say I am totally against it. I agree with what Philip said, consider it an option, there are many options out there.

When I first joined Chnlove, I went through lots of EMF's talking to various ladies. I learned a lot by talking with many gals but I soon got weiry of having so many Ben Franks depart on a regular basis. Then I started reading the forum on Chnlove where guys would talk about their experiences. I became more informed and started doing things differently. I would ask much sooner for casual photos. Yes, there were a whole slew of people I wrote but then after I saw the more casual photo of them, I cut the relationship off because there was too big a difference between the real photo and the original one they had up. That saved tons of EMF’s !

After a while, I settled on one lady and went to see her directly in China. When I met her at the airport with her translator, I was a bit surprised that she too looked a bit older than what she put up for her profile photo. That put me off but I went onward. Problems started to happen with the translator, she was a nice person but when she said certain things to me in person, those were different than what was written to me in the EMF's. In fact, I got into an argument about this with her. Things went up and down with the lady I was interested in but things improved a little towards when I needed to leave China, I told her that I would come back to see her. But I knew I would not use that same translator again, it just did not feel right.

I used Chnlove to meet another lady. I would have to say that this person was quite nice and resembled her photo. I did not feel anything strange here, it was good since the gal could also speak some English which made things easier. Things did not work out with this lady but I cannot say there was anything weird or strange that happened. Yes, I think part of it was not having a translator right there listening in to every detail we both said. There are times when you want some privacy and do not want to share stuff you are saying with a translator.

Another thing that happened is I met a really nice guy in the hotel where I was staying at on one trip to China. I met him accidentally when I was walking around the lobby looking at some of the shops. I heard English and then I went to find out who was talking since I did not see one single foreigner while I was there at that hotel. I introduced myself and he was quite open to talking more, we made an arrangement to visit with each other. We drank some beers and tea together and it turned out he too was looking for a wife, he also was using Chnlove. Well, when he told me the details of what happened, that really opened my eyes up. He was all set to be married to a lady whom he had been writing letters to, but when he got over to China to set up the marriage, something weird happened. The agency told him the former husband of the woman he was interested in came in and put a stop on the marriage. My friend could not even see her to discuss anything !! Wow, you can imagine the feelings my friend had when this happened, it was a major nightmare. My friend told me that he spent a number of days just crying, he wondered what to do. He told me that since he was already in China, instead of going back home he would go onward to meet other women. Well, he wrote to someone else after picking himself up, again using Chnlove. He told one lady he would come down to see her and that lady agreed to meet him at the airport, guess what ? No one showed up !! Geeze, what a raw deal after that first horrible experience ! Some airport staff helped him find a hotel, and the hotel he chose is the one where I met him. Believe me, after having many conversations with him, this really opened my eyes up.

Something else I want to say...please trust yourself and if you do not feel comfortable with a translator once you get to China, find one you do feel good about. Some of these translators are nice people and even though some know English quite well, they ARE NOT relationship experts !! A few have stepped outside of the boundaries of what I consider good practice, making recommendations about money matters, or things I should/should not do, I gave up on them. It took a while but I did find some who I could trust more. I personally think it is also a good idea to get a pocket translator (BESTA or something similar) and use that on some of the dates you have. Try a date with just your lady, she might open up to you more since there won’t be a go between. You might find out very valuable things you would never find out about when there is actual person translator there. It is NOT AN EITHER OR THING, you can have both a translator AND pocket translator. I for one will be using both !

Lastly, thanks to those who shared your ideas/opinions here in a more extended context, I learned a lot from you guys already ! I appreciate that !

Mac

[Martin]

I would like to add my 2 cents worth.  There are many scams on chnlove...this is a fact.  There are also many successes on chnlove.  This is also a fact.  There are risks going this route.  There are also risks using China Love Links.  There are risks using any online dating site.  There are risks using Plenty Of Fish.  I am not trying to endorse on site over another.  There are risks involved in all sites.  One thing many have to also consider is, getting married after knowing each other online, but not so much in person.  While there have been some successes, there have also been some failures going this route.  I could name off a few guys right now...Ed, Jim B, and myself included.  If I had to do it all over again, I would likely go with Chong's action plan.  It worked for him, and has also worked for others.  Go to China, and meet someone face to face.  See if you are compatible.  Anyone can be anything they like in e-mail/EMF/Web Cam, but you can not hide the truth when you get to know each other face to face.  That is my thought.

[RobertBfrom aust]

One thing is that the electronic age is now upon all of us , when quite a few of us on here started out and even before our facebook start things like doing videocam chats etc , were not even in operation , so now to all the people still searching the ease of direct contact is at your fingertips , anyone who relies simply on emf's is asking for problems , but nothing is a certainty until you spend time face to face in China , or if you are lucky in your own hometown , regards Sujuan and Robert .

[Chong]

If I had to do it all over again, I would likely go with Chong's action plan.  It worked for him, and has also worked for others.  Go to China, and meet someone face to face.  See if you are compatible.  Anyone can be anything they like in e-mail/EMF/Web Cam, but you can not hide the truth when you get to know each other face to face.  That is my thought.

I'm fortunate that I can speak my wife's dialect ( Taishanese ). My wife can speak Cantonese & Mandarin also but I suck at it. Communication is the key to any relationship.  Take as many Mandarin 101 classes as possible. As your lady is taking English course, give her consideration by learning her language as well.

[Wilfred Motosue]

I did have some problems with some of the girls in Chnlove like as soon as I told one of them or a couple that I was coming to visit them, they "suddenly" had to leave town for a "business" meeting. I might have been true or it might not. I have some skeptism. But I did get to meet at least 18 women in various cities so I did accomplish what I wanted to do through chnlove.
What I did to get rid of the problem of having to communicate with the translator and not your intended girl , I hired a translator who translated what I wrote in English to Chinese and I sent that letter to my lady friend. And when she wrote in Chinese, I merely sent her letter to my translator who translated it to English. After the first introduction letter to my lady friend, she gave me her email address and we were communicating directly that way.  That way a agency translator would not get in the middle of our converstion. And I did this with all my aquaintances that I met through Chnlove. I did not have any problems about guessing if I was talking to a translator except for a couple of girls.
wilfred

[ChinaTraveler]

Lucked out ....met a wonderful girl on qq. not  at an agency ...soon to graduate with a Masters....and she speaks almost perfect english and understands all .Perfect for me, she is 26 ......tall at 5'7 and quite beautiful and smart ! Looking forward to meeting her in a few months so that we will have time  to to get to know one another and see if we share the same values and life's goals. Otherwise will take the many great suggestions I got here and just see who I will meet in person while in China if she is not the one after our time together .Don't know if I will use my memberships in the two agencies I have signed up with ...

[halfpint]

Lots of interesting comments and opinions.  I guess everyone is comfortable with something different.  I didn't use chnlove, I just thought the cost was outrageous.  I used asiandating.com and have met a wonderful lady.  We chatted for a few months using Yahoo Messenger, all for free.  I went went to visit her in Shanghai, she came to visit me here in Canada.  We chat almost every day and have a very good relationship.

Chnlove seems to be oriented towards using translators.  I guess one of the benefits of other sites, at least in my experience, is meeting a lady that can communicate in English.  The lady I met reads, writes and speaks English very well.  I think the risk goes up significantly when you communicate through a translator.

Whatever approach people choose, the important thing is meeting the right lady.