Author Topic: The Red Envelope  (Read 10454 times)

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Offline JimB

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The Red Envelope
« on: May 28, 2009, 03:26:19 pm »
The Red Envelope is the envelope given to the brides family from the groom. I was told by an elderly Chinese woman who lives here and has been teaching me some things about Chinese culture, that everything in china is about money.  Even the language change to simplified Mandarin, while political was based partly in saving money. Terminology in the language itself has basis in money.  I cannot think of anything in particular about that but that is what she has said.  We as westerners love money but it is not the be all and end all for most of us.  I have quit talking to and seeing two friends because they both asked straight out for things.  One was a laptop and one was an MP4 player. These were not girlfriends just friends.   We are all worried about being taken advantage of.  But to them it is not such a big deal.  They ask and if you say no it is ok.  That is why the "Red Envelope" is such a big deal. In that, Money is not money it is face.  The more money in it the more face the family has and the bride has.  The higher the standing of the family the more money is supposed to be in it.   Therefore in a family that has a decent standing for a second marriage should be about 30,000 to 40,000 RMB.  She has told me that even if the bride says it is ok for a smaller amount it is something that may stick with her for her entire life.  So think carefully about it.  I am just passing this info on so maybe we can consider that when making decisions and not fly off the handle when talked about.
Also as has been said here many times the numbers 8 and 9 have great meaning. So instead of 30,000 it should be 29,999 or 28,888, 8 is love and 9 is longevity
Now the younger generation is not so hung up on it. Younger is under 30.  But, she may have some pressure from her family and it could have an effect on your standing both with her and the family.  Like I said I am just passing this info on, take it for what it is worth.
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Offline Irishman

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RE: The Red Envelope
« Reply #1 on: May 28, 2009, 03:40:11 pm »
When Ling brought me to meet her parents they gave us both a red envelope (Ling calls them simply "lucky envelopes" ) which she promptly used to buy food on the way back to Guangzhou, they put 50RMB in hers, mine i didn't open because it is kinda sentimental (but presumably has 50RMB in there too). Ling just wanted the money!
So yes the whole thing about money is the way its done. When we went to her friends wedding we each gave lucky envelopes to the bride (we were guests of the bride), there as no other type of gifts. Far more practical than western wedding gifts i suppose.
Become the change you want today, or all your tomorrows will be like yesterday.

Martin

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RE: The Red Envelope
« Reply #2 on: May 28, 2009, 05:11:42 pm »
When I was in China, whenever we went to a relative for a meal, Zhifang and I always gave a red envelope with money (don't know how much, as she filled it, and I would give it).  In every instance, another envelope was returned to us with presumably more money.

Also, at our wedding, as each guest arrived, they gave us a red envelope.

When we were at one relative, the Aunt gave me an envelope, and Zhifang started telling me not to take it.  Not sure why.  In the end, it was given to us, but I thought I would let you know that you don't always accept what is given....just don't ask me when those times are.

Offline maxx

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RE: The Red Envelope
« Reply #3 on: May 28, 2009, 08:17:18 pm »
Martin you should not take the money.If the relative is poor.Every time we go visiting a reletives house we bring food.Ussually some kind of fruit.

The only time we use the red envelope is at a wedding or when a new baby is born.And younger Relitives for Chinese New Year.

Everytime we go to China somebody is trying to give us money family friends.But it is not ussually in a red envelope.So I'm thinking that it is a custom only in some Areas.Kind of like the differences in the wedding ceramoney

Martin

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RE: The Red Envelope
« Reply #4 on: May 28, 2009, 08:33:37 pm »
Yeah...that is frustrating...trying to figure out wedding customs when they change from town to town.

Offline wilsonlee71

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RE: The Red Envelope
« Reply #5 on: May 29, 2009, 02:29:17 am »
Quote from: 'JimB' pid='4138' dateline='1243538779'

The Red Envelope is the envelope given to the brides family from the groom. I was told by an elderly Chinese woman who lives here and has been teaching me some things about Chinese culture, that everything in china is about money.  Even the language change to simplified Mandarin, while political was based partly in saving money. Terminology in the language itself has basis in money.  I cannot think of anything in particular about that but that is what she has said.  We as westerners love money but it is not the be all and end all for most of us.  I have quit talking to and seeing two friends because they both asked straight out for things.  One was a laptop and one was an MP4 player. These were not girlfriends just friends.   We are all worried about being taken advantage of.  But to them it is not such a big deal.  They ask and if you say no it is ok.  That is why the "Red Envelope" is such a big deal. In that, Money is not money it is face.  The more money in it the more face the family has and the bride has.  The higher the standing of the family the more money is supposed to be in it.   Therefore in a family that has a decent standing for a second marriage should be about 30,000 to 40,000 RMB.  She has told me that even if the bride says it is ok for a smaller amount it is something that may stick with her for her entire life.  So think carefully about it.  I am just passing this info on so maybe we can consider that when making decisions and not fly off the handle when talked about.
Also as has been said here many times the numbers 8 and 9 have great meaning. So instead of 30,000 it should be 29,999 or 28,888, 8 is love and 9 is longevity
Now the younger generation is not so hung up on it. Younger is under 30.  But, she may have some pressure from her family and it could have an effect on your standing both with her and the family.  Like I said I am just passing this info on, take it for what it is worth.


I would not say that everything about the Chinese culture is money, though we are very practical people!

In Mainland China, the written language is Simplified Chinese, the main spoken language is referred to as Putonghua (it is the same as Mandarin, and "Putonghua" means common language). In Hong Kong and Taiwan, the written language is Traditional Chinese, and the spoken language in Taiwan is Mandarin and in Hong Kong is Cantonese. The reason for simplifying the Chinese written language in the Mainland has NOTHING to do with money, the reason has to do with the low literacy rate after the Cultural Revolution, the government then decided to simplify the written language hoping to increase literacy.

As some of you have mentioned, the “Red Envelope” is mostly given during special occasions such as Chinese New Year, weddings, special gatherings, etc. During Chinese New Year, the elders and married couples give Red Envelopes as a sign of “good luck” to the younger people – you should NOT refuse Red Envelopes in general as you are refusing “good luck”; unmarried people usually do NOT give Red Envelopes, except to their parents as a sign of “thanks” if they are already adults. During weddings, guests give Red Envelopes to help the newlyweds with the bills since it is understood that they have to spend a lot of money during the course of marriage. As for the money (dowry) given to the Bride’s family, this is given as “thanks … for raising your wife (the daughter)” since traditionally the bride is no longer considered a member of her family, and is now “given” to the groom’s family; this amount can vary greatly, mainly depends on the finance of the groom's family, the more well off they are the more the amount – some really rich families have given the equivalent of 10’s of millions of US dollars to the bride’s families for this purpose and this is no joke! Also, unlike western culture, the groom’s family pays for ALL expenses for the process of marriage and the wedding.

Yes, some numbers have special meanings because it sounds similar; the number 8 sounds like ?, ?, or rich/prosperity and 9 sounds like ? or long/longevity.

As with most parts of the world, younger people are less traditional, in fact many of them may not even understand the imprecations behind the traditional practices, as such they are less likely to follow.

Hope this clarifies some of the myths behind the Chinese culture.

-W-
« Last Edit: May 29, 2009, 10:22:59 am by wilsonlee71 »

Arnold

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RE: The Red Envelope
« Reply #6 on: May 29, 2009, 09:14:54 am »
Thanks , Wilsonlee and yes 71 makes eight too .
I appreciate this very much .

Offline wilsonlee71

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RE: The Red Envelope
« Reply #7 on: May 29, 2009, 10:00:58 am »
Quote from: 'Arnold' pid='4224' dateline='1243602894'

Thanks , Wilsonlee and yes 71 makes eight too .
I appreciate this very much .


hahaha, funny, I never thought of that! 71 is the year I was born ...

Spruik

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RE: The Red Envelope
« Reply #8 on: May 29, 2009, 10:53:13 am »
Quote from: 'Arnold' pid='4224' dateline='1243602894'

Thanks , Wilsonlee and yes 71 makes eight too .
I appreciate this very much .


Oh, now I understand why my friend wants me to come on July 1... (7+1) :D

But I resist... I located a fare for almost have price travelling on July  29. I guess the visit is sure to come to nothing...

What if you subtract the 2 from the 9 ?

Toon

Arnold

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RE: The Red Envelope
« Reply #9 on: May 31, 2009, 02:21:39 pm »
Quote from: 'wilsonlee71' pid='4226' dateline='1243605658'

Quote from: 'Arnold' pid='4224' dateline='1243602894'

Thanks , Wilsonlee and yes 71 makes eight too .
I appreciate this very much .


hahaha, funny, I never thought of that! 71 is the year I was born ...


Wilsonlee , great .. you know now that you mentioned that , it makes me feel good .. was born '53 .. bingo " 8 " :rolleyes:
Toon , your Lucky also , 29 = makes 11 and that is also a very good number in China .
« Last Edit: May 31, 2009, 02:23:47 pm by Arnold »

Spruik

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RE: The Red Envelope
« Reply #10 on: May 31, 2009, 06:55:29 pm »
Quote from: 'Arnold' pid='4458' dateline='1243794099'

Quote from: 'wilsonlee71' pid='4226' dateline='1243605658'

Quote from: 'Arnold' pid='4224' dateline='1243602894'

Thanks , Wilsonlee and yes 71 makes eight too .
I appreciate this very much .


hahaha, funny, I never thought of that! 71 is the year I was born ...


Wilsonlee , great .. you know now that you mentioned that , it makes me feel good .. was born '53 .. bingo " 8 " :rolleyes:

Toon , your Lucky also , 29 = makes 11 and that is also a very good number in China .



Guess the number 1 is not lucky...

The girl broke off early this morning (after midmight), mainly as a result of a series of terrible misunderstanding due to her machine and my online (MDBG) translations.

I almost paid for the booking to visit her.

Good dialog just doesn't seem possible... i have decided that unless she speaks & reads reasonable English, it's just too hard.

With Chnlove providing translation service, it attracts many who cannot use other dating websites.

Toon

Scottish_Rob

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RE: The Red Envelope
« Reply #11 on: May 31, 2009, 07:03:02 pm »
Sorry to hear that Toon man.....:(

Spruik

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RE: The Red Envelope
« Reply #12 on: May 31, 2009, 07:12:13 pm »
The communication over one month was promising but extremely frustrating... didn't think it would really lead to something lasting, although her family was already involved.

Quote from: 'mpo4747' pid='4483' dateline='1243811329'

Toon

sorry to hear this as well .....

but if I understand you right ...
This breakup was the result of trouble in you and this lady communicating clearly ????

Mike


I can safely say, yes.

But adding that two days ago I said I would make a movie of my face smiling (LOL) and email it to her. Her translation implied that she thought I was going to send her the movie on a CD and post it to her.

Explaining , explaining, explaining... with repeatedly inaccurate translator output. I got so tired there was no reasonable time to do it (and convert it so she could play on computer). After 2 days she decided that I do not follow up what I said I would, showing a negative attribute and that's it.

I am sure that was not the only issue. I was getting very frustrated and pointed out to her how hard it will be unless she knows some English before I come, rather than start learning after.

I am not crying over it, just demonstrated to me that I don't think I would want to be relying on machine translations from the wedding day onwards.

Toon.

Martin

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RE: The Red Envelope
« Reply #13 on: June 01, 2009, 12:40:02 am »
Well...the first time I called Zhifang, she could barely say three words in English.  That was in November.  Today we talk regularly, and have enjoyable conversations.  Sometimes we struggle, but she is learning English so fast.  All I am trying to say is, be patient, as language can be learned.

In a letter to her once, I told her things would be hard...that language and culture would be different for both of us.  But then I said, language is an issue that will be fixed in time...and the cultural differences will enhance our lives.

In a later letter, she said that while our language would be difficult at times, she wanted me to hang on to the words in her letters to comfort me in those time when we could not communicate.

Offline metooap

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RE: The Red Envelope
« Reply #14 on: June 01, 2009, 01:23:12 am »
Toon, I am sorry to hear about this situation.

In reading your post – one thing jumped out – “how hard it will be unless she knows some English before I come, rather than start learning after.” I agree with this statement. This would be good. On the other hand, this puts the squeeze on her. What about you learning some Chinese?

Although I do not know your business,  I do believe Language and culture are barriers – but if that spark is really there and love flows…..nothing can really stop love.

So maybe this one was not meant to be.

The key is what did you learn from the process?

What needs to be fixed?

Afterwards, batter-up man!