The secrecy thing unveiled

[2hip]

If you read my post about Miss Beijing's secrecy issue I have something I want to share with you.

To tell you the truth I am learning how differently a Chinese woman thinks than western women.  It was bothering me that I couldn't get an address from her.  She didn't want to video on QQ.  She didn't want to use Skype or MSN.  She was having some trouble with her employer in getting time off for our rendevous.

If you knew her you would know she is very honest.  But for some reason did not want to go further than a certain step with me.  So, last night we are on QQ chat for about half an hour.  Trying to make our plans for the mid February meeting.  Her company just started a brand new project and she has part of the lead in the tasking of all of this.  She was so upset.  I asked her can't you just tell your boss you are taking off for 5 days.  She replied, "Alex, even the bosses are summoned into work from their vacation for problems that need quick resolution." She said, "Alex, I know this is upsetting you.  You won't leave me over this issue will you"?  I just was teasing and i typed in "yes".  She didn't type anything back for over a minute.  I asked her are you okay?
She said, "Darling, you have no idea what happened to me when you said that..my stomach lurched".  I felt like such a jerk for teasing her like this.  Now fast forward a few minutes later.  I had barely gotten her calmed down.  We usually talk for 1-2 hours a day.  But after this stupid little joke I had to leave her and get off QQ.  It really unsettled her that i had to shower and leave for an early morning appointment.

When I got back home hours later it was middle of the night in China.  I opened my gmail and she had written, "I felt the hand of God on me telling me that you would leave me.  I want you to just kill me if it is true.  I can barely breath right now".  I felt a chill run down my spine.  Earlier in the week she told me she had not returned to CLL to even turn off her profile.  I had not asked her to.  I had turned mine off due to so much traffic spoiling my work productivity.  But I asked why not.  She said because I am very supersitious.  I don't want anything to ruin our chances.  I had an epiphany from this.  She is just scared something will spook me before I get there.  These are not China Love doctored pictures.   I have seen regular pictures with regular lighting and she is fine looking.  Wow, what a revelation into her psyche.  Never even kissed her or held her and I have never met a woman like this in my life.  I am so afraid it will just blow up and and the dream will be over.

Have any of you had similar circumstances with this superstitious phenomenon?

[shaun]

Not that I have any vast experience with Chinese women but I do see this as quite common.  But it does lessen with time.  The one thing that will change that the most is you going to see her in China.  I see it as nothing more than insecurity and she needs to gain confidence in you.    It is also something that you need to get used to because they are different than western women.

[David E]

I think one thing we have all learned with our various interactions with Chinese Women is that they BELIEVE everything you say.

Anything coming out of YOUR mouth is taken as Gospel. If you say it...you gotta do it. If you aint prepared to do it...dont say it !!!!

As an example...and dont forget that I have been maried for nearly 2 years and my Wife has been living with me here in Aus for nearly 7 months.....

Last week she broke a plate...a genuine accident, and it was the first thing she had broken....in jest I put on a very "black" look and said to her...Bloody Chinese Women, always breaking things, I will change you for a Russian Woman.

Some 24 hours later...when I had finally got her setled down from a disastrous bout of emotional horrors I realised that you just dont joke about these things to Chinese Women...I should have known better, but I mistakenly thought after 2 years she would just laugh at my black humour...not a bit of it !!

I think it is a cultural thing...a significant insecurity brought on by growing up in a Male dominated society and always needing to be extra careful not to do anything that prompts the husband to walk away and find a "better" woman....to the point of maybe being a bit too compliant at times.

Hey Ho...we all live and learn 

[RobertBfrom aust]

Zhip , in China does not matter how senior your job is there are always 1000 equally qualified people to replace that person , not like in the lazy west if as I have several times needed an answer on a Sunday night within an hour or 2 a senior person will phone back with the answer , I would still be waiting on the Monday for the answer if I phoned local . Their jobs and family are very important and unless the lady is not working it is much better to try and work around her suitable times , and as David E said and you have learned never try western jokes on a Chinese lady 9 out of 10 times it will either backfire or they just will not get it , regards Sujuan and Robert .

[Chong]

Should have type back ... "Yes"... I will not leave you !

Let a Chinese woman joke with you but don't joke with a Chinese woman.

[shaun]

OK Chong.  You have a lot more experience than I do, so you are say you should never joke about anything at all with her?  Is that why my girl sometimes says to me, "You always joking on me?"  Is that her way of saying she does not like it?  Is that detrimental to the relationship?

I ask her sometimes and she says a little is OK and she will tell me, "OK no more joking now." 


This will be difficult for me to stop because I have always kidded people a little and I expect people to kid back with me.

Lest you think I am messing with you this is a real question,

Shaun

[Arnold]

I also Joke around a lot with my Wife , as I always call "Pretty" Women .. ahhh that's my Sister ! This comes from the three Women I have written to back in the Chnlove days , before I met my Angel . So now my Neighbor even brings it up all the time at Parties . This flies low , because Qing "Really" knows me by Heart after almost 4 1/2 yrs. knowing her .
To joke around in any way ( thats personal ) , before even having met FTF is an unnecessary risk you must avoid . Like David said , live and learn .. but do it before it's too late .

[maxx]

2hip you have received some good advice from the other members.Try to look at it this way. Rule # 2 Different culture different customs.In China you have a friend they tell you they are going to do something.No matter what it is .Or how inconvenient it is.They are going to do what ever it is.My wife almost screwed up her visa because.She told a friend that she would Wait for a book.That she had ordered for a friend to arrive in the mail.

When you tell a Chinese woman you are going to do something.They expect you to do it.That is the way it is done in China.So they expect the rest of the world to do the same thing.So don't make any outlandish promises.And don't tell the lady your going to do something.Then not follow threw with it.

As far as teasing a Chinese woman.That will get better with time.I can say almost anything to my wife.And she knows I'm just teasing her.we have ben together for close to 6 years.And have 2 boys together.And another baby on the way.So she knows me and I know her real well..And when we started this relationship.I never made any promises.That I didn't keep.That alone will go a long way.With a Chinese woman.

With this kind of a relationship.There is a huge learning curve.And as soon as you think that you know everything there is to know about a Chinese woman.And her culture and customs.You wake up one day.And she shows you.You don't know anything.This is a long journey with allot of twists and turns.It is not for everybody.

As you get more involved in this little journey.And you get more involved in this forum.You will come to find out that most of the members on this forum.Have a type A personality.They do what they do.Because they can do it.And they are willing to put that much more effort into this kind of relationship.It isn't easy.But in my own opinion.It is well worth the effort.

[Jason B]

So very true what everyone else has written.  I told my wife that when she comes here I will buy our house, but I want her to be involved in the process and pick our house together.  She understood this.  We will move in in a couple of weeks.  You DO need to back up your words with actions.  Anyone can say something but to do it makes her understand you really mean it.  Xia always mentions you said you would do .... and you did it.  You really are a good man.

I know one translator that works for China Love and some of the promises that some men make to women they are writting to are incredible.  They must have Bill Gates' bank account to back it up.  My advice........keep it real and tell her what you would like to do and do it but involve her in any big decisions.

p.s. congrats Maxx was unaware of the new addition on the way  to your growing clan.

[2hip]

Epilog...after the terrible joke by me...when asked if i would leave her if she couldn't get the time off..I said, "yes"...it really hurt her.  Fast forward to several txt msg to her apologizing for my insensitivity and just being male stupid.  Finally I get her on QQ late in her work day.  It is probably 0100 in California.  We are just in chat room.  She won't video or talk on phone...makes me nutts.

She told me her stomach hurt.  I thought it was from unsettling her the day before.  But she said it was the "time of the month" for her.  The fur began to fly.  I felt like I was speaking to the dark angel instead of the low flying angel.  Things that she typed were hard to believe...listen to some of these things guys..I am dumb founded.

"Men will tell you they love you but they are just saying it, they don't care about the woman really".  She asked me how many other women were I telling "I love you" to.  That men just can't be trusted.  She said she had just developed a feeling that she couldn't trust me.  I was just incredulous after these statements.  She is the one that told me I love you first.  I have developed real feelings for this lady.  It is so hard for me to fathom where her mistrust comes from.  With one stupid joke I have blown the whole house down?  Could this be possible?  I told her I was going to go to bed now and said good night.  I told her if I didn't have her trust what did I have?

Within an hour she sent several txt msg with "sorry", I love you, and I just want to know you really love me.

Now, with my work schedule I haven't really been able to catch her for 2 days.  Things do not feel right and I'm seriously spooked.  I appreciate all of the advice.  I now understand that just one careless joke can really blow up your world.  Do not know what will happen next.  Don't know if I have lost my mind and this is a bad dream or what....

[David E]

2Hip

Surely you know at your age that anything a woman says while in the grip of PMT must be regarded as the ramblings of a demented person !!!!!!!!!!!!!

Just wait a few days when the hormone battle subsides and the real woman will appear again.

The one you are speaking to at this moment is a monster 

[Nigel]

If she loves you, do not worry, she will come around.

There is a great cultural divide between western men and Chinese women.  Whilst both cultures enjoy a good sense of humor, the Chinese humor is very straightforward with not a lot of sarcastic humor. Chinese women are genuinely "cool" if you compare them to western women. They are very reserved, laid back to some extent, and even if madly in love with you, they will only EVER show that in private.  Because they are straightforward and honest, they naturally assume you are too. As a result, sarcastic humor, no matter how innocent it Amy be, is not understood, and they assume you are actually telling the truth....     i.e. criticism of them.

It is a very sad thing to see guys chasing Chinese women who literally have no idea of this cultural divide. They make ridiculous assumptions and equally ridiculous decisions due to complete ignorance of this cultural difference.

I had a chuckle to myself when I read on the chn love site a thread where some guy asks a poor young lady to take a picture of her holding up some sign . Even more ridiculous was where some guy responded suggesting it was a good idea. If you consider that genuine women on that site are 100% honest you can appreciate how insulting that is.

I asked my girl about this.... I was amazed to discover she had that request many many times because the guys simply did not believe she looks like she does.  Naturally, that was the last communication that she had with any of the men who made the requests. Haha, almost without fail, she received a letter in the next week or two from the same guys stating that because she did not comply with their requests, she was therefore simply a translator using fake pictures!!! Wow!! Hard to believe men can be so immature..... be cool, guys!

Anyway..... the moral here is, no more sarcastic humor, no matter how innocent. It just does not work with the average Chinese lass.

[Chong]

OK Chong.  You have a lot more experience than I do, so you are say you should never joke about anything at all with her?  Is that why my girl sometimes says to me, "You always joking on me?"  Is that her way of saying she does not like it?  Is that detrimental to the relationship?

I ask her sometimes and she says a little is OK and she will tell me, "OK no more joking now." 


This will be difficult for me to stop because I have always kidded people a little and I expect people to kid back with me.

Lest you think I am messing with you this is a real question,

Shaun

I should clarify my above statement ... joke or not joke around to the contexts of the situation ( conversation or physical play ). Shaun, you're absolutely right that any relationship needs humor. IMHO, this thread topic involved a question from the lady's feelings that didn't require a joke response. Remember, she hasn't met the guy yet. Until they meet, they should joke about himself, third parties, cultural differences, news stories etc etc ... but not about her feelings.

[Vince G]

Not to worry and I would go along with David's statement. Been there done that to many times. Women have different levels of feelings at the "time of the month". Some will lay in bed and do nothing and others pick a fight? Each their own little episode.

[Rhonald]

Remember, she hasn't met the guy yet. Until they meet, they should joke about himself, third parties, cultural differences, news stories etc etc ... but not about her feelings.

Toatally agree with Chong here, untill you meet and maybe not untill a few trips, keep your wits and be the perfect Gentleman. Once the realationship develops then be witty.