Quick help needed - How to transfer a large amount of money to China?

[Jan]

Is a normal bank transfer way to go? I have a feeling I would need some papers or proof about the origin of the money?

We have found a good house to buy, the building is new just finished this year. It is in a perfect spot. Has many schools closeby, close to the center of the city, has market nearby, is in a little quiet area still. Close to the airport, bus station etc... So the price of it will go up a lot as well in the longer run if we sell it for profits later and buy something better...

But this is still a problem. Anyone here know? How to transfer money to China? Are there restrictions how much money I can transfer to another persons account? Do I have to pay some kind of tax for it?

Or is it as simple as just go to online bank... Transfer money... Then the money goes in to my girls account. And all done?

She is really stressed because the apartments in this new building are being sold really fast, might be sold out in a week. And afraid that we will miss out on this opporturnity if we don't act fast. We have to pay 50 000rmb "reservation" payment, then we get more time to pay the actual downpayment 250 000rmb. And after that 2500rmb monthly for some years...
The thing is, you can't get the reservation payment back once you do it. And if there are problems transferring my money to China, as in takes too much time. Then that 50 000rmb would be totally wasted.


Thanks Sujuan and Robert for an answer. Basicly he said, that there should be no problems. As I have sent her some money before. And that it is transaction between banks, nothing to do with governments or anything... I will go to my bank. And do this, also ask about this.

[David E]

I cant tell you what the Currency Regulations for your Country are, but here in Aus, we are allowed to send any amount by direct Bank Transfer, there is no Tax, only the transaction fee charged by the Bank. and an equivalent fee charged by the receiving Bank in China.

These fees are not large.....but check with your Bank.

As far as taking cash out of Aus, we can take up to $10,000 with no questions. If we want to take more we must apply for a Treasury Permit...which is a bit more complex.

[Vince G]

$10,000. cash seems to be the magic number for many countries.

Even bank deposits (here) are set at 10k. Went to deposit 10k into a business account a while ago. The bank teller placed a IRS notice up front that asked where this money came from, etc. Responded with Gee I made a mistake (pulling $100. bill out of the stack) depositing $9900?

[Willy The Londoner]

There are no restrictions as far as my friends tell me.  Business in China relies on much higher sums that is proposed here.

Bank tranfers for large amounts are best. 50,000 rmb is not a large amount just 5 grand GB Pounds of 7.5 grand US roughly.

Your problem will come in obtaining a mortage. The banks will not accept you for a mortgage.  Just your lady who as yet is still umarried so she best check with bank to see if they will grant her mortgage.  They are very hard to get these days due to the restrictions that are placed on banks by governments.

We bought our home her outright and even though I had the money available the bank hummed and arghed over a mortgage as my wife earning had been low over passed years, so we paid cash.

You say the building is new and just finisherd.  You do realise that most homes sold here that have not been lived in are just basic shells. No floors no celings, no electric wirinmg no plumbing nothimng other than plain concretes and floors.  To fit them out is loosely calle decoration so you need to check if it has been decorated or not.

The reservation money goes to the firm doing the selling.  Unless you are buying in certain places in China then you will not be permitted to have your name in the house book.

And from the time the property was deemed finished by the builders that is from when the 70 year countdown begins.  The longer you keep the home the harder it gets to sell as the government claw back gets closer.

That is why it is easier to sell new properties in China rather than the older ones.

Willy

[Jan]

I have read more about this. Asked around etc.

This is what I know now. If I transfer the money directly to her account. I have to pay "gift tax" even if it is offshore transfer. Which would be around 8000€... Which is awfully a lot. It would go down to 3000€ if we were married.

I am looking in to another possibility now. If I transfer the money under my own bank account and name at China. And then go to China my self... Take the cash out, buy the house. But just get the mothers name as "owner"... If I have to pay anything to Finland for that. Or keep it as a secret what happens to the money at China, stays at China after that...

Finnish law is extremely strict if you try to evade taxes. You can go to jail and pay 10-100 times more money for it than raping and killing a person... So I am not tempted to even try any kind of tax evading.

Yes I know the house is just an empty shell after buying it. And that you need to decorate it, buy things in it etc...

I will not need a mortage, because I have this cash already. But my problems rise how to get it out of EU without paying too much... And the house would and will go under her mothers name. So she can look after it, rent it out and then they will get the rent money (this way we will not need to send the family money every now and then).
While we are living at Finland earning some money. (yes she got a good job here 1700€/1month).
And later, maybe 10,15 years of time. We will move permanently to China. After saving money at Finland for that duration. (at least those are the plans for now).

I am lucky, I am doing well at Finland. And now she got a good job as well. So we will be doing very well together money-wise. But she and I really don't want to pay for 8000€ just to do things smoothly...

But I'll keep you posted how things turn out, or if I get some other info. Or what we decide later on...

[Scottish_Robbie]

HAS YOUR WIFE GOT A BANK ACCOUNT IN HER NAME IN FINLAND, MAYBE THINGS CAN BE DONE THROUGH THIS WAY, HER ACCOUNT, HER NAME FOR HOUSE.
JUST A SUGGESTION

[David E]

Just one other small thing to consider before you pump large amounts of cash into a property in China....

You say that the Title to the property would be held in the Mother's name. You are not yet married.....what happens if the transaction goes through, you spend this money...and then your girlfriend dumps you ...what happens to your money .

Maybe the Title should be in your name, or jointly with you and your girlfriend ??. Maybe Willy can comment on how this could work in China, I dont know a lot about how the Chinese Laws regard Foreign ownership/jont ownership of property. I did explore buying some apartments in Chengdu in 2009 but this Title issue scared me off, because at the time I was not married to Ming..

I just know I would be dead cautious about parting with this money with no protection against a possible disaster.

Also I am a bit confused...if you send money to your own Bank account in China, and then use this money for any purpose...how could this attract Tax ?? I assume that the Tax has already been paid on any money you save from your salary, thus what you do with it in your own right is your own Business ??. I can understand the "gift tax" if you give it to your G/F, but if you get this money to your own account in China, who cares what you do with it ??...how would your Government know or care what the money was for.

[Jan]

Just one other small thing to consider before you pump large amounts of cash into a property in China....

You say that the Title to the property would be held in the Mother's name. You are not yet married.....what happens if the transaction goes through, you spend this money...and then your girlfriend dumps you ...what happens to your money .
I just know I would be dead cautious about parting with this money with no protection against a possible disaster.

Also I am a bit confused...if you send money to your own Bank account in China, and then use this money for any purpose...how could this attract Tax ?? I assume that the Tax has already been paid on any money you save from your salary, thus what you do with it in your own right is your own Business ??. I can understand the "gift tax" if you give it to your G/F, but if you get this money to your own account in China, who cares what you do with it ??...how would your Government know or care what the money was for.

I've thought about that also quite a lot as well. I am sure that things will go well. We have spent quite a lot of time together already.
I know I can loose that money maybe 40 000€ maximum... But I am willing to take that risk for her. I need her so much and love her so much. And yes the only way for us to do this would be by putting the house under her mothers name.
We will be living at Finland for a long time, working saving money for the "future". And we can't manage the apartment related things from here Finland... Unlike her mother, who lives maybe 5minutes away from the new apartments location. Also if she "owns" the house... She can do everything and anything related to it... Envict bad people who its being rent to. Decorate it, because it is just a shell now. Etc...

Money is money, I don't really care if I loose my money. As long as I have her and my own family and later on hers as well. Money can not buy love, even though it can get you many things and occasional happines.
Her family accepts me, but does not really trust me too much yet either. If we (I) get the house from China. This way her family would feel safe, that I have something valuable at China, other than this girl of course (Strange Chinese way of thinking, their insurance). Meaning I can not just leave her... Which I never will. Also they would gain a lot of face for this. Their daughter having a big apartment and could show off by talking about this hehe.

I have asked a finance advisor/lawyer someone I know a little for help about this. She will answer within a day most likely. Then I will know if that option is legally good. As in me transferring to my own account and then withdrawing it myself at China and use it for the house.

[Willy The Londoner]

You really have to be very careful Jan. 

You appear to be a headstrong young man in love!  We outside of Finland are not really able to answer you on the law of that country.  We can only offer you advice as we understand it.

Buying a house for her mother is a fairly expensive way of getting them to like you!

 It matters not if the house is in your future wifes name and not the mothers.  The mother can look after the property with her daughters name in the house book.

It seems like there is a bit of a rush here to get you to buy a property and I will be blunt. DO NOT BUY UNTIL YOU are married.  If you still want to go and buy the mother a property after your married then go ahead. 

There are thousands of new complexes being built in China and better ones will come along all the time with very glib sales people who tell you that all properties are nearly all sold and you have to be quick in completing purchase.  We looked at many complexes where the last couple of homes were avaiable and we needed to be quick.  The same complexe are still selling homes two years later.

You talk of WE selling later and WE buying a better place later. There  are only a few places in China where the 'WE' is applicable otherwise YOU will have no say in what happens to the house.  Your girls mother will be the decision matter and she will own the property outright.

But somehow I feel that you are so in love with this girl that whatever I or anyone else says will not make a great deal of difference to your resolve.  You are so willing to hand over large amounts of money as if there is no tomorrow, solely, in my opinion, because you feel if you do not do this you stand a chance of losing a woman you really love.

If your willing to hand over 7,000 usdolllares to the selling agent now,  plus another 38,000 usd in about 6 weeks time, (as that is the length of time to normally complete the purchase here)   plus another 15,000 usd for decorating and furnishing plus you say you need no mortage but you mention earlier that yopu have to then pay 2500 rmb every month for several years. That is usually at least 15 years here and THAT sounds like a mortgage to me. 

You talk of handing over these large sums of money for something YOU will have no interest in.

I hope everything works out well for you but unfortunately I have heard of too many similar rushed occurences ending in tears. 

Willy

[maxx]

Jan I think you really need to listen what Willy is trying to tell you.

[Vince G]

Young, stupid and regretful, been there done that. Even then I would not do what you have in mind. In my first divorce @24 though what bills and payments were both of ours by law I paid them all off and paid the divorce in all was a very large sum which took many years to gain that amount back. I learned a lesson but have 40 something years of regret. I Don't wish this on you. You need to be more careful in the moves your considering.

[lfputman3]

I would follow Willy's advice on the house, with the addendum of "married and with you in your country"

but I'm a skeptical @$$ accountant and we tend to not trust anyone. Just look at those andersen guys, they trusted people....   

[Jan]

I have thought this through. And I will keep thinking about it for a long time as well.

If my girl gets her work Visa fast, then this problem will be over for now. And we can think about it later when we return to China together for holidays.

I have my own house at Finland already and a stable and good government job (I can not be fired without me screwing something up, its in our law for my job). So I "can afford to loose" this money. Which I of course do not want to. And I believe I will not loose it either.
But if something goes wrong. I will have myself to blame.
I have really nothing to spend my money, because I have no one to spend for. I have been saving my moneys to start a family when I find the right one. And thats what has happened. And thats what the money will go for as well. I don't spend much, because its boring alone. Sure some occasional mens nights out. But that does not cost too much...

Of course when we get married. I will get that prenuptial agreement related to everything at Finland that I own. So that will be covered in any case. And I will of course explain it clearly to her. Tthe Finnish prenuptial agreement can be bent and modified to cover almost anything. If I cheat, then we go by normal divorce rules, if she cheats - then by my rules, if I die - normal rules, if she wants a divorce - I keep my stuff. If I want it - she gets her share etc... Anything that we can both agree to and is reasonable.

We talked today quite a few hours during my work time (on Fridays, theres like nothing to do, only day of the week like that hehe). She thinks that we can do whatever I feel that is right and that it was wrong for her to pressure me. On the other hand her parents are pressuring her, because they want her to have a good and secure life. I know things will take a worse turn, if I don't do this. Because last visit at her family I promised them as well. That we will buy a house together from China, to which we will retire to later on during our lives.

She would really "loose moore" by cheating me, than gain. Sure she would gain that house downpayment money, and rest of the house money will not be paid for in many years anyway, which would be left for her and the family to pay anyway after that.
But if she keeps me, when we retire to China, and sell my Finnish house. We can easily buy a house from Hainan or where ever she wants to live at then. And live a good life. She loves me, but I think she also thinks about this. If she keeps me, she will benefit even more.
Also her family has spent close to 100 000rmb for schooling her. So that she can get a job from foreign country. So her family does not have much left anymore either. If they take my money, then her schooling money would be wasted. As she would not be able to stay at Finland easily. So it is a win win, if she keeps me and stays at Finland with a good job and salary.

She is not the most beautiful girl in many mens eyes at China, neither the thinnest. So her options would be a little limited anyway I think. But I like her that way, not too thin, something to grab. She is still beautifull in my eyes. And looks will change over the years. But its the personality that we grow to like and love that matters.
She is very open and openminded. So am I. So we can have conversations about anything and it feels so easy and relaxing. I can only imagine later on, when she learns Finnish language even better. Things will be even easier and good.

I have thought about this in quite many different aspects, hers, mine, my Finnish familys, her parents... Like I said before. I feel that this is something that I have to do. For us to be happy together for a long time and for us to have a good relationship, trust etc. If I break this one promise now. It can lead to bad things later on as well. And me + she would loose all of our faces, more like our heads as well. If the parents found out that we don't do this.
They are quite "traditional". Even though I don't understand everything too well... But I understand this.

[David E]

Let me just check that I have got this all correct in my head....

Mother wants you to buy a house for her, as payback for the money she spent on her daughters education.

Make no mistake, what you are describing is just that Jan...you and your future wife will NOT own or have legal title to this home.

You are fortunate that you can afford to lose this sort of money, good luck to you, but the principle is dangerously wrong.

Buy the house in your wife's name...period. Give Mother some "red-envelope" money at your wedding......that's what the rest of us did !!!

[Willy The Londoner]

Nearly every parent here pays that amount for schooling here. That is the normal cost to educate a child to adulthood.  Everything has to be paid for in China!

What they are saying is that buying us a house is the price to pay to take our daughter which is the profit on our investment over the years. Banks pay out less than 2% interest here so there 'investment' in a daughter has certainly looks to have paid dividends.

If you are happy with that, and it looks like you are, then all well and good. 

Many on here have come up with the same scenario.  A few have taken it up, most have settled for giving a 'fat' red enevelope, one or two have turned down the request and the woman has gone elsewhere. That may be sad but it least it clearly spelled out to the man that the real love was just one way in the relationships.

It looks like you have settled your mind on your given course and I hope all works out well for you.

Willy