Author Topic: Prenuptial Agreements  (Read 18024 times)

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Offline Willy The Londoner

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Re: Prenuptial Agreements
« Reply #30 on: May 19, 2012, 07:49:11 pm »
Ok Let me answer some of the replies.

Mike MPO of course you looked at this as a true Christian which will always stand you in good stead. So you know your decision was correct.

Arnold you was not Gung Ho as you obviously had the 'I will make this work' attitude.  Probably brought about by your Teutonic European Background.

Rhonald, as always, his words baffle me in the constraints of my limited academic standings but I get the gist of it.  Especially the last paragraph!

Shaun - I have no idea what you are talking about. LOL   ;)

From what I do know the highest divorce rates in the world come from the USA with nearly 5% of marriages ending in failure.    Then comes Peurto  Rico and then Russia.  What did surprise me was that UK was running 4th but a good 2% per 1000 marriages less than the USA.  6th, 7th and 8th were NZ, Aus and Canada with 2.6% per 1000, 2.5 and 2.4% respectively.

I put the high rate of UK divorces down to the extremely high number of immigrants to the country since 1950 and pre 21st Century there were hundreds of thousands of marriages solely for immigration purposes.  (One notorious women alone was said to have taken part in over 200 sham marriages using various names etc and eventually went through hudreds of 'quickie' divorces of course that was before the marriage records were computerised in the late 1980's).

China comes in way down the list at 0.79% per 1000 marriages.  With less than 0.39% of Cypus marriages going that way. it looks like David 5o's marriage (who got banned) has statistically the best chance of all of surviving the course. 

Divorce info from www.nationmaster.com/graph/peo_div_rat-people-divorce-rate

Willy

Just for Info. We have 'Iceland' staying with us for a few days.  His experience in Asia will open a few eyes and mouths!  As he is a professional writer and what he says will be one book that I will read.



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Offline Martin

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Re: Prenuptial Agreements
« Reply #31 on: May 19, 2012, 08:01:32 pm »
OK Willy, so those are the stats for divorce rates...but I thought we were talking about marriages with foreign brides.  Are those statistics the same?  Since you pointed the finger at North America, why is Canada lower than the UK?  Why is Mexico lower, sitting at #31?  Seems like of the top 5, only one is in North America.  So when did that become a North American issue?  You are throwing mud over the pond, but your figures don't match up.

Offline yvictor

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Re: Prenuptial Agreements
« Reply #32 on: May 19, 2012, 08:15:27 pm »
From what I do know the highest divorce rates in the world come from the USA with nearly 5% of marriages ending in failure.    Then comes Peurto  Rico and then Russia.  What did surprise me was that UK was running 4th but a good 2% per 1000 marriages less than the USA.  6th, 7th and 8th were NZ, Aus and Canada with 2.6% per 1000, 2.5 and 2.4% respectively.
professional writer and what he says will be one book that I will read.

Willy,

It's not 5% of marriages ending in divorce, it's more like 50% of marriages ending in divorce in "top divorcing" countries, for instance:
http://www.divorcemag.com/statistics/statsWorld.shtml

The numbers you are looking at is 5 divorces per a population of 1000 people, which is a different statistic (and those 1000 people include children, etc).

Offline JohnB

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Re: Prenuptial Agreements
« Reply #33 on: May 19, 2012, 08:44:03 pm »
6. ALIMONY:
A. WIFE waives any right to Alimony in favor of the following payment schedule:
i) The WIFE will receive a payment of Twenty‐Thousand Dollars ($20,000) for each year married if either party files for divorce less than 5 years from the date of marriage, or the Husband will be responsible for his support amount to WIFE under the Immigration Laws of the United States, whichever is lesser.
ii) The WIFE will receive a one‐time payment of One Hundred Thousand Dollars ($100,000.00) if either party files divorce 5 years or greater from the date of the marriage or the Husband will be responsible for his support amount to WIFE under the Immigration Laws of the United States, whichever is the lesser.
iii) If either party files divorce after 10 years from the date of the marriage the WIFE will receive a one‐time payment of 10% of the HUSBAND’s assets as determined by the date of filing of the Divorce.
iv) If either party files for divorce after 15 years from the date of the marriage the WIFE will receive a one‐time payment of 15% of the HUSBAND’s assets as determined by the date of filing of the Divorce.
v) If either party files for divorce after 20 years from the date of the marriage the WIFE will receive a one‐time payment of 33.3% of the HUSBAND’s assets as determined by the date of filing of the Divorce.


I was a divorced American man...somewhat sensitized economically by my divorce because frankly, it was quite costly to me; typically, divorce in America is not advantageous for the man in the vast majority of divorces.
So I think that I, in addition to most men, was somewhat blinded the first go- around. No street smarts. And the costs of failure is considerable. I do assume this gentleman in question was divorced, now maybe..hopefully a little smarter. Obviously his legal consul is protecting his ass the next go- around. Without knowing all the circumstances this prenup makes sense. I find the prenup conditions quite generous. I do not know what you people are thinking about that. Still, it is not me.

When I first visited Jing in Shenyang, the Fushun agency manager & I had a "getting to know you" talk. Basically, she was of the opinion that, yes, a lot of American men are players, even going into detail about a few of her clients mis- adventures. Not good news coming from a source who I considered reliable. She gave the Australians, the Brits, and the rest of the European men were given high marks.
I do not think I would want to contest generalities. That would be problematic since my own opinion is limited to myself. Only myself.
My first wife & I lived together for 4 years before marriage. She didn't even cut a fart the whole time. Jing & I were married in my first visit, two weeks of pure happiness.
So, maybe I am not the smart man after all. The thing is I did not go into my China relationship with all my American idiosyncrasies intact. Stupid arrogance be that. Cross cultural relationships dictate a lot of patience. A lot of understanding. A lot open discussions about what is China, because right now, all things in America are predicated by her China mindset. Jing does not understand but she is like a dried out sponge right now, taking in all this mental nourishment. She wants to learn. I appreciate her tremendous effort in all this.
I am patient. One thing the curious should remember is that I have never raised my voice with Jing. Ever. I am forthright in how I go about my marriage. Frankly, there is a lot of things Jing just not know or understand. In time she will be fine.

I am an older American man. I am probably somewhat set in a lot of ways I can not or will not imagine. I just do what I want, when I want, where I want. I probably can be cast as "atypical".
I do not have a high opinion of the American male. But I also understand that the women in America are very unforgiving with their selfishness of being. In addition to the elevated divorce rate, how many couples actually stay married despite their lack of general well being. Maybe the real question posed should be, "what is the percentage rate of successful & happy married couples"? There probably would not be any requirements for a prenup then. So I will let go this conversation with that.

Offline Willy The Londoner

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Re: Prenuptial Agreements
« Reply #34 on: May 19, 2012, 09:12:36 pm »
Ok Martin.

Then you are in a better place than most to tell us this. 

Since this forum started what is the recorded success rate and failure rate of marriages of members.  How many marriages have there been and how many failures? Or has no one ever kept a record of successes and failures?   Or is 'failure' a dirty word on here? 

From what I have read in past 3 years or more on here is that all failures on this forum have come from North America I cannot recall one outside that area.  So you can prove me wrong on what I say about North America then I will rescind all my observations on this thread.

Willy

PS - John I am probably the oldest member in age on this forum so I still believe in old fashioned ethics.  I like what you said about Australians and Europeans.
« Last Edit: May 19, 2012, 09:18:40 pm by Willy The Londoner »
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Offline Pineau

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Re: Prenuptial Agreements
« Reply #35 on: May 19, 2012, 09:29:55 pm »
Well, I wish I had included a few more details about the ladies situation.

Her fiance is a widower and not suffered or experienced a divorce before. So He is acting our of fear, or advice of his attorney or friends.

She is an instructor at a university here in Guangzhou. She has been on the same job for some 20 odd years and is illegible for full retirement in a few more years. If she quits her position before then,  the University hands her 6,000 RMB and calls it even for a lifetime of work. She looses everything she has worked for her entire career.

She is not so concerned about the settlement. She thinks it could be renegotiated and a compromise could be reached. What is really bothering her and brought her to tears is what was this man thinking when he and his attorney drew up this one sided unfair agreement in the first place. She told me yesterday that she has reached a decision. She is going to dump him and walk away.

What a stupid asshole he has been. He is not the looser here. Everyone looses. 

Maybe some of us think prenuptials are necessary for whatever reasons. But if we go that route we must be sensitive and fair. Dont just think about covering your ass but really examine it from her point of view and do the right thing.
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Offline Martin

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Re: Prenuptial Agreements
« Reply #36 on: May 19, 2012, 10:26:12 pm »
Since this forum started what is the recorded success rate and failure rate of marriages of members.  How many marriages have there been and how many failures? Or has no one ever kept a record of successes and failures?   Or is 'failure' a dirty word on here?

To be honest, records have not been kept.  But, I only know of 3 that failed for sure (that's all i can think of right now).  2 were American, and one was Canadian (Mine).  That being said, how many members have gotten married, and never returned to this site when their significant other arrives at their new home?  So the only ones we have heard of are those that have actually stayed on this forum.

I dont know why you would ask if failure is a dirty word here.  Certainly there have been many failures along the way for people from every country.  Some married, and some dating.  Some fall apart before the man makes the trip...some have fallen apart when the man is in China, and others have fallen apart later on.  Its a reality of dating.  Not everyone is as successful as you are.  Some of us clearly are not quite as lucky...and for various reasons.  The statement I took the most exception to, was when you suggested that it was the North American men that left, or caused the woman to leave.  These women are also capable of causing the break down of a marriage.  Hard to believe, eh?

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Re: Prenuptial Agreements
« Reply #37 on: May 19, 2012, 10:36:36 pm »
 She told me yesterday that she has reached a decision. She is going to dump him and walk away.

Well, I would have done the same (looking from her view-point) and glad the she decided to dump. I guess PAPER-beats-LOVE! She deserves better and her hard earned Pention as well.

Offline Willy The Londoner

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Re: Prenuptial Agreements
« Reply #38 on: May 19, 2012, 11:15:53 pm »
She told me yesterday that she has reached a decision. She is going to dump him and walk away.

What a stupid asshole he has been. He is not the looser here. Everyone looses. 



Thanks Gerry,

I think that covers what I have always said.  We are not Gods gift to Chinese Women.  Sorry for him and her as there was no need for this if he went into it with the right attitude.

And people on here say I do not know how Chinese Woman think!

Willy
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Offline Willy The Londoner

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Re: Prenuptial Agreements
« Reply #39 on: May 19, 2012, 11:24:12 pm »
Since this forum started what is the recorded success rate and failure rate of marriages of members.  How many marriages have there been and how many failures? Or has no one ever kept a record of successes and failures?   Or is 'failure' a dirty word on here?
  Some of us clearly are not quite as lucky...and for various reasons.  The statement I took the most exception to, was when you suggested that it was the North American men that left, or caused the woman to leave.  These women are also capable of causing the break down of a marriage.  Hard to believe, eh?

My comment however badly made was that whoever caused the failure it was a marriage to,  not by North American men.  Which from what you say bears out this theory.  Only talking of marriages not relationships.  I was suggesting that is was north american living culture that may be the cause of this.

Willy
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Offline Philip

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Re: Prenuptial Agreements
« Reply #40 on: May 19, 2012, 11:27:34 pm »
Using the handful of men who post on this forum does not make for a statistically reliable sample. It would be like me asking 20 of my Hong Kong friends if they liked pizza. If 15 of them said yes, I would hesitate to extrapolate from the results that 75% of Hongkongers like pizza.
We should be grateful for those here who are honest and brave enough to share their failures and disappointments with the rest of us. None of us are immune to failure. In fact, it is only really failure in my book, if we fail to learn from it. How many men here have failed (or succeeded), and then never posted again? More lost statistics. How many have been economical with the truth? Who knows? How many have failed and then succeeded, or succeeded and then failed? What about the future?
 For my wife and I, we bless our good fortune, and do everything we can to ensure the future happiness of our marriage. We have no crystal ball, and we are both experienced enough with failure, and grateful enough with our present success not to rub it in the faces of those who are less fortunate than us. This is not the end of the road - it is only just the beginning.
 I wish everyone luck and wisdom, whatever the colour of their flag.

Offline Martin

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Re: Prenuptial Agreements
« Reply #41 on: May 19, 2012, 11:30:32 pm »
Like I said, we have no useful statistics here.  Most men leave the site when their lady joins them.  It's too bad, because there would be plenty of valuable information that can come from members even after their wife arrives.  I made a mistake...I can think of 2 Canadians and 2 Americans.  ! Canadian and 1 American, the wife ended the marriage before the immigration process had been completed.  Possibly cold feet.  In the case of the Canadian, he flew to China to try and save his marriage.  He is happily in a relationship now.  But beyond that, statistics here are non existent...it would be nice to have that kind of information though.

Offline Jason B

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Re: Prenuptial Agreements
« Reply #42 on: May 20, 2012, 01:49:45 am »
Just one more idea to through into the mix.  I wonder how many women in China are influenced by American movies and the (I presume) fake way of life they make out in the USA?  Is this an idea that is sown and upon arrival finding it very different to a preconceived idea?
But my feeling is as has already been mentioned their is a higher percentage of US men here than any other.  So therefore basic maths to me means the higher the number the more chance of something going wrong.

I do not wish ill fate to any marriage but some very good issues were raised here.  How many members have disappeared after marriage and spousal arrival in their country?  How many of these members are still married or seperated before marriage or had their bride in their country and seperated and are too embarassed or whatever to come back here with their tales between their legs?

We can only be honest with ourselves and our partners and do what we feel is right.  We all want the same thing here.  Our wives with us forever and for us both to have a wonderful happy loving life together.  It is not easy and sometimes we have to make some hard choices, if that is walking away, a prenup or what ever you decide is the right way is something between 2 people.  All I can ever do is offer my experiences or opinions.
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Offline john1964

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Re: Prenuptial Agreements
« Reply #43 on: May 20, 2012, 02:00:33 am »
Maybe this guy who wants the prenup is very wealthy and of course does not want to loose what he has if the woman is just a gold digger, A fellow member of this forum brought his Chinese wife from China and she came with nothing, Her and her daughter both got jobs here in Australia and sent a very large portion of their earnings back to China, They seldom contributed to daily expenses and within 1 week of her permanent visa being granted she left the family home with her daughter and is now involving blood sucking lawyers to squeeze everything from this man that she can, He has a lot to loose which he built up over his life time and he owned everything lock stock and barrel before he met this gold digger, He thought everything was peachy on the home front but he got stung big time, John.   

Offline Rhonald

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Re: Prenuptial Agreements
« Reply #44 on: May 20, 2012, 10:00:25 am »
Thanks John for your contribution with this statement. Now I guess this guy is not a member of this forum - but needless to say, Willy will need to take in consideration that his observation was based on the limited sample rate of our members. Also per chance, his vision will have been clouded over by being closely involved with one American man living in China. I think he concentrated on the tree and did not look at the whole forest.
Using the handful of men who post on this forum does not make for a statistically reliable sample. It would be like me asking 20 of my Hong Kong friends if they liked pizza. If 15 of them said yes, I would hesitate to extrapolate from the results that 75% of Hongkongers like pizza.


Yes and Philip brings up a usefull point about generalization on small sample rates. Chances are that friends will share common interests as like is attracted to like. Jumping into a swimming pool's shallow end will not tell you how deep is the deep end of the pool.
« Last Edit: May 20, 2012, 10:07:18 am by Rhonald »
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