China - Next Ten Years?

[JohnB]

Again, long ago.
The luxury of 2 oceans kept war off a reluctant America. The forum fails to say that on the advent of WW2 most Americans were the 1st born generation of European immigration. It is understandable since American immigration was fashioned by war, by famine, by the “opportunities” afforded by a new life, a life that is “free”, far from the tyrannies or misfortunes that drove them away from their native lands.
I think it safe to say, most people did not wish to leave their homeland by just “pure choice” and this problem of an unstable Europe was something their parents had left behind years ago.
People forget the Depression and how that affected national thought. Basically, America healed from the difficulties of the depression, sat back the war & waited until Pearl, the luxury of 2 oceans that had finally became vulnerable (as I recalled it was Germany that declared war on the U.S. after the Japanese attack on Hawaii).

If anyone thinks America pure & simple, some companies profited immensely. If one company should not fail in America, it would be G.M.
G.M. played “both” sides of the war effort. I noticed that Wikipedia has been G.M. sanitized, but for years the history played accurately well on Wikipedia (I just use G.M. as an example of 1 American corporation. There were many others). I guess national sensitivities with the G.M. Bailout just a few years ago.   
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_General_Motors#World_War_II
“..By mainstream accounts, General Motors' German subsidiary (Adam Opel AG) was outside the control of the American parent corporation during World War II. Some conspiracy theorists posit that this was a hoax, with the American GM as a secret war profiteer on both sides, but Alfred Sloan's memoir, for example,[13] presents a description of lost control that is much more Occam-compliant than the fringe alternatives. However, even without any such conspiracy, GM found criticism for its tax avoidance around the Opel topic. During the war, GM declared it had abandoned its German subsidiary, and took a complete tax write-off worth "approximately $22.7 million", yet after the war, GM collected some $33 million in "war reparations" because the Allies had bombed its German facilities..”; also, see “Criticism 1930s Germany”, re: "Alfred P. Sloan, James D. Mooney, John T. Smith and Graeme K. Howard.

http://www.jewishjournal.com/articles/page3/hitlers_carmaker_how_general_motors_helped_jumpstart_the_third_reichs4/


Personally I do not feel Willey's or Rob's comments were all that far off base. After all, what they write is their own take on something that happened long ago. Something that “effected” what we have today on the International scene. The Chinese may call all this “fate”.
I think we should revisit China, Next Ten Years?

[David E]

OK JohnB...let's get back on track...China in the next 10 years....is my (or anybody's) GUESS any better than any other, because anybody who even begins to predict that scenario is kidding themselves !!!

The Country is starved of resources (apart from people) has oodles of cash (produced by the thrifty savings of billions of low paid workers) has artificially maintained a low standard of living for the majority so it can dominate trade with CHEAP products.

The Country Leadership has deliberately kept the truth about International happenings from its population by ruthless censorship and vicious actions against the so-called "reformers (Tianmin (spelling )Sq etc) Has manipulated exchange rates to artificially prop up its competitive position.

The Country MUST grow at a rate of 6% + each year just to stand still, despite the one-child policy, population growth is astounding....adding hugely to the demand for resources...energy and food and living space. The mass exodus from rural into urban living is continually degrading China's ability to feed itself.

Despite ruthless censorship the population is slowly, slowly beginning to see all the "goodies" we enjoy in the Western World (sad for them !!!) and they all want a slice of it now.

Corruption at all levels is rampant, the rich are getting vastly richer...and the poor are as usual getting very little.

In the next 10 years the lid has got to blow off that little lot somehow. By revolution, by stealth, by policy...I dont know, nor does anybody. But one thing is clear, history suggests that Communism is not sustainable over the long haul and ultimately crashes. The Chinese Government has managed to keep the lid on all this for a long time...but I fear the time is coming when a drastic revision of China's internal politics is inevitable....what the outcome will be is anybody's guess...but it wont be pretty !!! especially when China holds so much of the World fiscal resources in "worthless" Foreign Government Bonds., which will be the outcome when Europe crashes financially in the near future.

And if we all stopped quoting bloody rubbish from Wikewhatsit and Goooglethingy and used our OWN minds just for once and have an opinion that purely belonged to each of us as individuals, we would be a lot better off.

How come every time somebody leaps in and quotes these sources it is automatically assumed that these are the Gospel truths...we are like Lemmings (or the Pied Piper of Hamelin) .........what happened to personal opinions and thoughts ?

[Willy The Londoner]

This could be my last comment on this thread.  We will see

Maxx your write Winston Churchill was half American - he was also a journalist that wrote for newspapers.  Two things that go against him!!!   He was a great orator.  He said what he knew people wanted to hear,  most of all he was a polititian. He went to places were he received publicity just like modern days ones.

Your views are somewhat in line with Churchills.  That is after all this time we should be so grateful to the American people that they can piss on the world and no one can say a thing about it because we have to be so eternally grateful what your American Ancesters did 70 years ago.    This comes into play on many other threads that we two have issues over.

I say ancesters because apart from me and possibly one other there is no one else on this forum that was alive during any part of WW2.

No I do not have to be in my late 70's or early 80s to have been alive during that war. But I was a child born in the War Years and had vivid recollections of what I saw when my memory began to take note of things.

How long do we have to be grateful for?  How long does gratefulness last.  Does it go back as far as when the first three ships loaded with British west country folk landed on the East Coast and from there on were known as the Pilgrim Fathers. 

Are you not grateful to us English for having the foresight to set off and create such a place that your European ancestors later arrived in droves to start new lifes where they were in the main the bottom of the heap in their own countries.   Are you not grateful that we gave you people like George Washington and many others?  Your country was started on the backbone of the English.

So Maxx just how long do we have to extend this hand of gratefulness to times that none of us on here actually were around to remember. I remember seeing the rows of houses destroyed by nightly bombing raids.  But have no knowledge of the actual events.

Grateful. I remember this kid, who lived next door, who used to get beaten and abused by his father all time. His father has instilled in him that he did it because the boy was not grateful for having been born. 

David E I think that you about got things right on this one, as usual.

Willy

[JohnB]

Willy, I would not be too put out. 

In “Civics” classes long time ago, the basis of American law was Judeo- Christian, English Common Law that was based on the existing social mores of the day. English “Common Law” predates the introduction of Christianity in the British isles.
So, I can say without any doubt, that America can thank England for our great system of law. It can be further surmised that England, despite it's abuses in the colonial era, left in place the best form of governance of all the colonial powers of that conquered world long ago.

http://www.chinese-forums.com/index.php?/topic/20978-why-wasnt-the-us-like-other-western-powers-who-carved-out-china/
I stumbled on this today. It is an interesting take on the partitioning of China by the world powers.

[maxx]

Hey Willy probably till 2006 that's when England finally payed back the money the Americans lent them.

[Willy The Londoner]

Hey Willy probably till 2006 that's when England finally payed back the money the Americans lent them.

Thank you Maxx - at least you confirmed that that debt has been repaid.

Willy

[Scottish_Robbie]

if it has been repaid, WHY should we still feel grateful?

[Willy The Londoner]

He probably means us English.

You Scots still owe the world too much.  So be grateful. 

When you get Scottish Independence you will want in on July 4th to say on expenses. 

Willy

[David E]

Willy, I would not be too put out. 

In “Civics” classes long time ago, the basis of American law was Judeo- Christian, English Common Law that was based on the existing social mores of the day. English “Common Law” predates the introduction of Christianity in the British isles.
So, I can say without any doubt, that America can thank England for our great system of law. It can be further surmised that England, despite it's abuses in the colonial era, left in place the best form of governance of all the colonial powers of that conquered world long ago.

MMMMM...not exactly true, English Common Law is based on the Model introduced by the Romans (after their conquest of Britain about 50 BC) Roman Law at the time was hearsay, there was no written Constitution and no formal books on Law (other than the fragmants remaining of the Sybilline verses that were held in the Temple of Jupiter and only read for advice on dire occasions)

The Senate enacted Laws as they saw fit and these were formally engraved on bronze as "caveats" to existing practices. Thus Common Law was born...the Law of precedent.

Post the Roman era, Britain had no Laws...it wasn't called the Dark Ages for nothing !!!

But ultimately the mixture of Common Law and the Law of Precedent became implanted in the British Justice System. copying most of the Roman version....thank you Julius Caesar 

[Pineau]

So happy to get your ideas about China's future...     Now I am going out a play in traffic.