Little Emperors

[Philip]

Hearing the horror stories from Gerry, Rhonald, David E and Willy, I thought I would start a thread about relationships with stepchildren.
As my wife is going to give birth to our first child together, child-rearing is very much on my mind at the moment.
My wife's first son is just turning 15, and he is a remarkably mature and responsible young man. He goes to boarding school, after living with his grandfather (and sometimes his mother) for the past few years. He is a pretty good cook, he is very studious, quite shy, but with a good sense of humour. My wife has brought him up  as a single parent, she hasn't been with him as much as either of them would have liked, but he knows she loves him, and has gained a lot of maturity from having to do things himself. I was worried at the beginning that he might feel abandoned when my wife was living with me in Hong Kong or in Chongqing, but the bond is very strong.
My wife has this clever knack with him (and with everyone else, including me) of not disagreeing, but throwing the responsibility back to him, with a bit of reverse psychology thrown in. E.g. if her son says "School work is too difficult", (something he would rarely say, by the way), my wife says "Your cousin left school at 14, he started his own business and he made a fortune. Now he has three houses and five cars. Maybe you could try that.", to which her son says, "No. He was just lucky. Nowadays, you can't get a good job without a degree".
I don't know how much his maturity is due to my wife's calm and reasoned discussions with him, or his learned self-reliance, or some innate qualities, but when I meet him, I have the luxury of getting to know him as a person, without needing to discipline him. Things may change in a few years, but I doubt for the worse.

[David E]

Fortunately for you Philip, you seem to have scored one of the few "normal" Chinese Stepsons   

When I was deeply pondering how to deal with Ming's monster child, I came to the conclusion that my own attitude came from the position that I felt he was deliberately being difficult/selfish/domineering.

What I need to address is the stone cold fact that his behaviour is perfectly normal for a Male Chinese child....within the realm of THEIR culture and traditions.....

This does not make it any easier to deal with, but maybe "lowers the heat" a little.

Problem is, he can be this way IN CHINA as long as he likes, and as long as Ming is in Aus with me, then it's all academic anyway. But if and when he comes to live in Aus with us, normal or not, his whole attitude and behaviour MUST change, because I know I will not be able to tolerate such an attitude within my home and within my relationship with his Mother. Besides which, we live in Aus and this is not how children behave (generally speaking !!!)...and it is certainly not how children behave in any household of which I am the bread-winner, owner and Master !!! But dont get me wrong, I am not talking about repressive discipline for the sake of the "pecking order" I am talking about real boundaries that exist in my culture against children adopting such a stance with their Mothers.

I have told Ming that I am prepared to have him live with us, to sponsor and pay for him to attend University in Perth....but.....he must somehow understand and accept that his way of doing things vis-a-vis his relationship with his Mother is not going to work and is not going to happen.

Ming is truly confused about the whole issue because she finds his behaviour to be normal...that's what she is used to....she has no conflict in her head about Son being numero uno when he lives with us and I will take the back seat...what's wrong with that, that is how it is in China.....she says......

I can see there are interesting days ahead.....anybody with experience/advice about all this stuff...please post quickly.....

[Arnold]

David, believe me.. I talk about your "Thorn in the side issue" with Qing as well as other's in the same situation with the Little Emperors that we gladly invited into our home. We both feel for you, I know that isn't of any help to you.. but your not alone... as you know by now. Good Luck with your "Price" !
Now get this, he tells his Mother (to the Face) I listen to Arnold, but I don't have to listen to "You". hahaha
I don't know if I should laugh or slap him across the pretty face? So anyway, Qing and I talked last night in Bed... I told her... this is what you do if he ever says that again. Play his game and when he comes running for help with his Homework (English mostly), tell him I don't need to listen/help you either... period. Let him go to School without completed homework... see what the Teacher is going to tell him? Ohhhh... my Mom didn't help me! Well, shouldn't 'You" be doing your own homework? See if he doesn't get embarressed in front of the class.. to change his behavior/attitude quickly? We'll play "Mirror" and send back his shot's back to him. We'll crank on his gears... til they all are running smoother... towards our way anyway.

[maxx]

David I don't know how much help I can be.My situation isn't the same as  yours.But it is close.When Tristan my 4 year old was born.My wife and her family did treat him as a little emperor.I put my foot down.And told them that since Tristan was my son.He would be raised.As a American with American customs and traditions.It took a little work on my in laws part.To see what I was showing them.But at the end of the day.They knew I had raised kids before.And they turned out alright.Both of them are In college.They both have full ride scholarships.My daughter works 2 partime jobs and goes to school.Her brother goes to school and works a part time job at Sears.

In your case you are fighting centuries of tradition.So your wife.Is having a hell of a time adjusting to this.The same way that Sarge's wife had a hard time adjusting to it.Along with those traditions.They are taught where a woman's place is in the great scheme of life.And her place in the family.The male child do's rule the house in China.And the dad doe's play second fiddle to the kid.The dad is the one who teaches.The kid how a woman should be treated.

So the next time you see the little emperor.You need to lay down the law.Tell him this is Australia.And since you want to live as a Australion.You will learn to act Like a Australion.Then you lay down your rules to him.Tell him if he cant abide by the rules.He can go back to China.And be just another number.In some no name university.Then he can get a job in some shitty factory in China.Then show him the good life.Take him to the beach,Take him up in one of your planes.Take him to a university in Australia.Let him see how the average college kid lives in Australia.Then tell him hey this can be yours if and when you change your ways.This kid has already seen the shitty side of China.He now needs to see what Aussie land has to offer.

The main thing is to not let this kid.set you and your wife against each other.I know you have heard of the divide and councer tactic.That's what that kid is after.He thinks his mom has got a free ride to the promise land.and if he can split the 2 of you up.And get you out of the picture.While his mom is in the promise land.Then he has a free pass in the promised land.And can lay around all day and play video games.And brag to his friends in China how good he has it.

My daughter had the same problem.She had lived with her grandmother for years.And grandma gave her what she wanted.Till my daughter got out of control.And thought she was the fairest princes in the land.So I went and got her.on the way back I stopped at a shitty hotel.And made her stay the night there.When she got to New Mexico.I would kick the bedroom door every mourning.And tell her it was time to get up and go to work.I would take her to work.and give her the shittest job I could think of.I did this for about 2 months.every night my daughter would have a go at my wife.Then my wife would have a go at me.We did this for 2 months.Then I shipped her to my brothers house.Where she had to work.But It was a better job and she liked it.And she got to run around with her cousin.When they wasn't working.After a couple of months my brother took her back to her grandmother.And my daughter thought she was the fairest princes in the land again.

So we let her do what she wanted to do.She went and lived with her boyfriend.And his family.Every mourning the boys mother was kicking the door.Telling them to get up and go to school.when my daughter refused.The woman would drag my daughter to her job.And make her take care of elderly people.This didn't make the fair princess happy.So she would pick a fight with a family member.And how dare they make the fair princes pay rent.She didn't have a job.So after a couple of weeks the fair princes moved back to grandma's finished highschool.Then moved to the city where the university was.She was going to attend.2 days latter she has a job.And is paying rent on a room.She is renting from a lady.A couple of months latter she is in rolled in college.Is buying her own car.6 months latter she moved out of the room she was renting.And rented her own apartment.Where she has lived for the last 2 years while she is going to college.She has gotten 2 better part time jobs.And pays her own way.As far as rent food,insurance,Car payments.She won a scholarship to the university She attends.So she doesn't have to pay tuition.Or for her books.

The point of this long winded post is you have to show the kid.What is right and what is wrong.If he doe's the right thing.He gets to live in Australia.If he doe's the wrong thing.He go's back to China.And don't be surprised if he slips.and you have to remind him of the rules.If he does slip to many times.ship his ass back to China.He will be back to Australia in a couple of months with a different attitude.

As far as dealing with your wife.You are going to take a little heat.And it can be uncomfortable at times.Be up front and honest with your wife.Tell her yes her kid is Chinese.But this isn't China.It is Australia.and he has to learn to adapt to the people and the customs.Just the same way she had to.And learn to do things on his own.Tell her at no point and time is she his servant.Or his whipping post.Tell her that you love her so much.That you can't stand by and let anybody treat her bad.She will tell you it is ok if her son treats her bad.Because that is the way it is done in China.Then you just remind your wife.That this isn't China.And he needs to get along or get the hell out.

Allways remember if it isn't the end of humanity.Or the world as we know it.It probably isn't worth arguing about.Let the little things go.Don't get wrapped up in it.I know this is a stretch.for some people.But to make this work.You are going to have to learn to talk to your wife.And her son.And learn to listen to what they are really saying to you.

[maxx]

Arnold I have to disagree my friend.Don't ever play into there childish games.They have no idea what is best for them.Your best bet is to lay down the law.Then show him what he looses if he doesn't follow the laws.And if he slips follow threw.By shipping him back to China.For a couple of months.

[Arnold]

Arnold I have to disagree my friend.Don't ever play into there childish games.They have no idea what is best for them.Your best bet is to lay down the law.Then show him what he looses if he doesn't follow the laws.And if he slips follow threw.By shipping him back to China.For a couple of months.

Maxx, he will not play any games with me and I do not allow him to do it to his Mother either. He will know soon what is best for him and where he stands in this Household.. #3 and never anything else. He's very smart for his age, but if he only use it in a more constructive way.. instead trying to use his Mom for his sole purpose. I'll have him standing straight.. mind and soul in a year or he'll see the wrath of a German and that isn't pretty.

[David K]

I wrote in another thread ( http://www.chnromance.com/index.php/topic,3591.msg61469.html#msg61469 )
about the little prince in residence here (NZ), and the difficulties it generates.
What I have found helpful is to distinguish between the behaviour (which is unacceptable) and the desire
of the princeling to be accepted and to belong ( which is what we all want).
I think Maxx is right - a testosterone fired confrontation serves only to make the situation worse..
the old bull and the young bull both eyeballing each other pawing the paddock, so to speak..

Sometimes there's a deeper issue.. a thing called the Oedipus complex .. so named after a
mythological greek dude who became enamoured of his mother and arranged to have his father
dispatched, so he could have mother all to himself... ring any bells???
In any event, I have found that when I loose my sense of humour in any situation, I am close
to loosing the plot and acting destructively.

So what I do is caricature the situation - a little play acting with facial expressions and lots of
body language (so lack of english cannot be used as an excuse ( wo bu mingbai)).
5 minutes of hamming it up is usually enough to get everybody laughing, and the reset button
has thus been pressed.
"A soft answer turneth away wrath" I think the good book says

[David K]

PS:  Seems the "little emperor" virus has gone global...
But I agree the Chinese version is more virulent than most

[Arnold]

"A soft answer turneth away wrath" I think the good book says

David, believe me.. having had to deal with seven Step-children and 19 Grand-children through my first marriage.. I've learned quite a bit how to and when? This is a challenge of the different kind, but I/We will prevail. Boy, this sounds like a battle cry... I hope it does go the more quiet/peaceful route of course.  Actually, I only (don't tell anybody) know this one route and the "Wrath" is only a breeze in the distance. I do blow some "Hot" air ones in a while, to get my point across!

[Jason B]

Just to throw one out there as I have no idea about any of this.  Maybe a "threat" would be toe the line or go live with your father in China? Seems to me from the stories I have read that the kid is dumped on the mother or grandparents as the father does not want much to do with the kid.  Maybe an eye opener for them. Just my 2c.

[Arnold]

-Seems to me from the stories I have read that the kid is dumped on the mother or grandparents as the father does not want much to do with the kid.-

Jason, this might be so with a Daughter.. with a Son less likely I would think. In our case, the Father actually sends $$$ every now and then and without asking for it or making him feel he has to. He cares for him and thinks Schools here are better for his Son and he gets to learn English same time. If he only knew, Calif. Public Schools are now ranged 47th in the US., sad when we were 2nd or 3rd one time.

[David E]

Thank you Guys....as I knew, a bunch of good info. and advice came through quickly.
Apart from my specific issue, it proves that this Forum is alive and well if anybody needs some help with any subject ref. relationship issues with our Chinese lovelies !!!!....one in the eye for the doomsayers.......

Anyway, I do understand that some fast footwork on my part is going to be necessary when dealing with the Little Emperor.

I am by nature a bit of a control freak....takes a lot of time and trust for me to relax around people who are close and I count my Darling Wife as one of the few people I trust to always have my back and always have my best interests at heart....over the last 3 years she has proved this on countless occasions, so it was a bit of a shock to see the instant transformation when her Son arrived here for his holiday....it was as if the last 3 years just disappeared and I became almost a stranger to her as she busted her ass to cater for every whim of this little wart. OK, it is wonderful for a Mother to show she cares for her Son, I have no arguement with that, but it went well beyong sharing and caring, it was pure Master/Slave relationship with Cultural cringe thrown in and heaps of verbal abuse on his part if she did not perform to his satisfaction in anything.

Whe the first occurrence happened....it was when he came in from a brief walk around the neighborhood....he opened the front door and stood there and shouted....she immediately rushed to the door, removed his walking shoes and put on his slippers WHILST HE STOOD THERE and waited for her to do it...needless to say...I blew up BIG TIME.

Second issue was the first evening when he wanted to take a shower...I carefully explained about the water situation in Perth (very critical and very expensive) and asked that he does not take too long in the shower...we all try to restrict our shower times to 15 minutes or so. After he was 45 minutes in the shower, I lost my cool and turned the hot water off...made him jump around a bit !!!, Ming got very angry with me and rushed to comfort her precious Little Emperor...she told me that HE was not to be subject to the same water restrictions as the rest of us...." because he should be allowed to do as he pleases"...."In a pigs ear was my response." !!!!!

Third issue...and remember Guys, this is the first 9 hours that he is in our home......As we were preparing dinner, the wart was nowhere to be seen......presumably in his bedroom QQ'ing or sulking, so we busily got on with dinner and it was only later that I found he had sat down at my PC, paged through all the info. he wanted to look at, found the files for my Flight Simulator (No this is not a game, it is a professional simulator that we use for Navigation Training and Instrument Flying practice.)...he then proceeded to play with the file structure and modify the flight model...this is OK, I do it a lot myself and as long as the new model is saved in it's own right, all the info is preserved....however he saved HIS Model OVER all my settings...so undoing 3 years work.......

When I again blew up, and screamed "what the bloody hell do you think you are doing, who gave you permission to use my PC, and many other choice words" he just looked at me as if I was a dog turd and said some rapid words in Chinese to Mum who bounced ME for shouting at him.

I wont go on any more, this was all on day one....I had 15 days of this, each one worse than the previous !!!

I dont quite know how I will cope with this child, I need some pretty strong guarantees from him and his Mother before I can commit to bringing him here for University. But I fear that if I refuse to do it I will loose my wfe in the process.

But I am prepared for that if that is how it must be...could it be that I have been set-up for this game plan from day 1 of my relationship.??..what a ghastly thought.

Cheers...David
 

[Scottish_Robbie]

I cetainly hope not mate !!, i do not think ming would do something like that

[David K]

"A soft answer turneth away wrath" I think the good book says
. I hope it does go the more quiet/peaceful route of course. 

Hi Arnold...
I don't think there is any set 'how to'.... but if the wish is for a harmonious outcome
even if the current feeling is of justified rage, its surprising how things work out
At least that's been my experience..

There are over 50 million 'abandoned children' - including the one I have living with me
and it is not always as it seems
see  http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/chinas-left-behind-children-its-not-what-you-think-8197950.html. 

Another thing I did was join up with the local 'tough love' group..
Its a bit american, but was I surprised to find the numbers of harassed parents threatened and worse
by their teen age children. And this is in a respectable 'leafy' suburb 
Thats without factoring in the complications of ethnic, cultural and language differences

So I reckon we should acknowledge ourselves for having the courage to tackle a big job..
Even, as in my case, I did not know what I was letting myself in for  when I started
 
I like your (blogged) garden staircase handiwork.. I had a similar requirement, but owing to the
hugely uneven ground level, ended up framing it with treated 8*2 and filling in the
treads with super strength concrete. It may not be beautiful, but it aint going nowhere in
a hurry 

David K in Auckland

[David K]

I dont quite know how I will cope with this child, I need some pretty strong guarantees from him and his Mother before I can commit to bringing him here for University. But I fear that if I refuse to do it I will loose my wfe in the process.
But I am prepared for that if that is how it must be...could it be that I have been set-up for this game plan from day 1 of my relationship.??..what a ghastly thought.

Hi David E

Been there and likewise stared that possibility in the face..
Where I got to was that I deserved to receive as I had given.. 
ie commitment, consideration, courtesy and concern...
And I was prepared to claim those rights to a gentle life here on the planet

My response - to far less severe provocation than you have faced -  is

[1] to educate my wife on the rights of woman in a civilised country.. there are
quite a number of Chinese woman here who have come with emperor
husbands and figured that they no longer need to be treated as chattels.
I invite them round to talk to my wife ( in mandarin, so who knows what is being said)
Slowly the light dawns... she is no longer in China...

[2] To remodel the house, so that  the little prince has his own flat, with his own entrance
his own kitchen, paying his own way, working out his own weekly budget. 
I've made this clear to my wife that this is an essential part of his growing up in NZ
and to not do this would be a serious breach of duty as parents. And she agrees
At least in theory..

But if push really came to shove ( which, realistically it won't ), its
two tickets to China, and a life of peaceful solitude for me.
I deserve nothing less
And so do you...

Peace
David K in Auckland