Little Emperors

[Arnold]

I am curious how many of you come from a divorced family?Myself growing up it wasnt pleasant.

Good question Ron.
I for one was left father-less at one/two years old (another woman). I lived either with a Step-dad or my Grandpa till I was 14 and done with School back in the sixties. After that I had build a good size wall around me already and was very shy, even into my early twenties. After I got married at 25, I have drop-kicked all my Luggage of my youth and was never angry at my Mom or anyone for that matter. On the other hand, my only "Real" brother (One yr. younger) to this day.. is still very angry and has not forgiven anyone for what happened in his years as a Child. So bad, I could not get close to him.. and I've try'd. I now think, this made me a better Person in a funny way.. as I would not allow this happening to my marriage or children and this is turning a minus into a positive.. without a Shrink. Us western Folks certainly have the Teen problem and it has gotten worse year by year, because of the Family structure is missing in so many Families nowadays due to the bad Economy. The Chinese Boy Emporers is of course a whole new other reason since the one child rule came to be and now throw in some of our western ways and you have an even harder outcome to face. Oh Joy, yes.. but looking for a chinese sweetheart.. we (I think) never looked looked further then... at "Act" two like David K said. This thread can give others in the same difficult situation some good insights/pointers to help them at least somewhat, when in the process can really put a damper on a Newbie just starting out. But, isn't it always better to have some of the high hurdles in front of you early on.. better then later?

[shaun]

My problems isn't with the son, he and I see things almost the same.  Mine is with the daughter and granddaughter. 

[David K]

Actually, one of the issues is that the little emperors often come from divorced families..

In most parts of China, divorced woman are discriminated against
In most parts of China unmarried woman over 30 are discriminated against
In most parts of China unmarried woman with children are even further discriminated against
... Usually the money promised as part of the official divorce settlement never come through....
So its off to the big city sweat shops for mother... and grandparents for the child...
There are 50 million such cases (officially) - see my previous URL for more details...
And not unsurprisingly,  some of these ladies see CHNLOVE as the only way out...
So its off to the photoshop bureau to have those curves enhanced ( or erased )

Along comes the Western Hero - whether it be from unbrindled lust, loneliness or the
desire to rescue.. and before long long our hero has fallen in love with photoshopped pixels...
Only later do we realise what the phrase "responsibility to the family" means: ready made offspring,
and then its too late :-)

So in addition to the normal Chinese male arrogance,  OUR little emperors have truckloads of guilt to
use as weapons in the combat zone.....
YOU are responsible for the divorce so YOU are responsible for depriving me of a family 
YOU have deprived me of a fathers love which would have made my life fulfilled
YOU have abandoned me to work long hours, when you should have been BOTH
mother and father to me...
MY friends come from a WHOLE family but I do not and YOU are responsible..

The list goes ever on, that being the nature of guilt, which can only ever be used
as a weapon..
Probably the best example I can give is the movie/DVD "The Last Train Home"
made by a canadian chinese filmmaker... worth a look...  before you leap

So the old saying "Beware of strangers bearing Gifts"  becomes
" Be wary of divorced Chinese beauties bearing Children"

Caveat Emptor

David K

[ron]

I think this is a very good post in the forum.It is nice of the married men to share this with us.As in everything there are ups and downs as we have seen.It makes for good discussion and learning.

[Pineau]

I think we can over analyze the cause of this and loose sight of the solution. I don't care if it is feelings of abandonment or spoiled grand child syndrome, the jest of it is that the mother is the enabler of the continued bad behavior. She was so overly protective of the little devil. Any horrible thing he did (and there were very many) was excused away by the phrase "he's just a little boy". well that shit does not sit well with me, especially after he entered his teens. His behavior could be corrected if she would just try. But she did not do anything to discipline him until it was too too late.   What I asked Jing many times was if she could not be a stern parent then release control of the boy to me. In a few years I would give her back a good son, well mannered and a young adult..  But she would not have any part of it. She was afraid that I would be too tough on him.  (her definition of tough love is to take away his play station for a couple of days). I blame her as much as him and the grandparents. I think up until the early teens a boy can be fixed but you need to convince her to step aside so you can do your job.

[Neil]

My wife told me that her son needs a father to discipline and teach him.  We always refer to him as our son, not her son (though, if he is being bad, he is 'her' son).  He's still young - 7, so he's not too annoying yet.  My wife has a hard time getting him to do homework or pay attention sometimes, but he is a lot like I was at that age.  He's very imaginative and a little quiet.  He wears glasses, and my wife always scolds him for sitting too close to the tv or computer, but I let it slide - he just can't see good enough.  When he comes to Canada, we can get him to a real eye doctor.

I worry about his first few years in Canada.  My parents divorced when I was 9, and we moved around a lot.  It was not good for my social skills.  Our stepfather was very overbearing and strict, but to this day, I love him, respect him, and consider him more of a father to me than my real father ever was.  I hope I can be as good a father as he was.  My daughters turned out real good, so I think I'll do fine with a stepson. 

The language barrier will be the biggest hurdle.  I wish we were all together now, so I could really get down to teaching them English properly. 

So, no little emperor yet.  We'll see.

[Willy The Londoner]

My parents were together until they were parted by the death of one of them.  This built my character to what it is today.

I long, long ago decided that it was far more fun for a man to be single and available than to be tied to one woman and maybe later divorce.  Most people I know have been divorced at least once but me never so far and I hope I never will be. 

I look to my parents experience of staying together till one of you dies.  But then I am closer to that than most on here.

Willy

[djal]

"My wife told me that her son needs a father to discipline and teach him.  We always refer to him as our son, not her son (though, if he is being bad, he is 'her' son).  He's still young - 7, so he's not too annoying yet.  My wife has a hard time getting him to do homework or pay attention sometimes, but he is a lot like I was at that age... 

The language barrier will be the biggest hurdle.  I wish we were all together now, so I could really get down to teaching them English properly. 

So, no little emperor yet.  We'll see."

Neil,  your situation is very similar to mine.  My GF has a son who is 7 years old.  We plan to get married in a few months and then it's the visa application.  He speaks mandarin and japanese since he lives with his mother in Tokyo.  I hope he will adapt well to Canada and I hope he will have no problem learning english.  And yes she told me alsothat he needs  a father to teach him and discipline him...  to be a mentor in a way. I'm 51 and it worries me a bit to have that role again.  My daughter is now 18 and at university.  I have to start all over with a young kid...  he is ok though.  I hope I will do well.

[Arnold]

I'm 51 and it worries me a bit to have that role again. 

Now djal, 51 is still young.. just ask your Girl. I'm 59 going on 60 soon and having a 11 yr. old is actually a challence I welcome with my wife's help of course. Keeps us young ourselves... wouldn't you say so? Can't put that all on the wife's you know.

[David K]

  What I asked Jing many times was if she could not be a stern parent then release control of the boy to me. In a few years I would give her back a good son, well mannered and a young adult..  But she would not have any part of it. She was afraid that I would be too tough on him. .... I think up until the early teens a boy can be fixed but you need to convince her to step aside so you can do your job.

For another POV try
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/01/28/AR2006012800062_pf.html

[Pineau]

Thanks for the link and suggestion but....I would not go as the tough love programs mentioned in the article . My methods are more firmness and regulations with a dose of explanation of why there are rules and that you really love them even though your being an asshole at the moment.

I have 5 kids of my own and have raised two daughter that belonged to my ex from her first marriage. That's a total of 7 kids that were placed in my charge. It was not easy but they are all , each and every one,  productive members of society. And not one of them ever threatened me or their mother and were never taken away in handcuffs. I  know how to raise kids and do it right but I must have a chance and support from the rest of the family.

Without Jing's over protection and grandparent interference her son would have been in his second year of college now. But instead he is working as a delivery boy for a pizza hut and only one strike away from a long prison sentence.

[David K]

Thanks for the link and suggestion but....I would not go as the tough love programs mentioned in the article .

SNAP:   I have raised 4 before I met my "Chinese Takeaway",  much of it as a single parent....
One clung like glue to his mother, totaled 6 cars and accumulated thousands in traffic fines..
So we are of a mind about discipline and consequences...
Presently my lovely wifes son (coming on 22 ) still thinks he is in China and has a servant called mother..
This is changing, but it takes effort and planning on my part... with, crucially, support from my wife
who also can't find it easy 
Peace
David K

[ron]

Tough love does work I have done it with my daughter and son as long as your wife will not go against you and the family stays out of it and not undermine your work.Otherwise it will be you fighting a losing battle.But I am sure you are already aware of all this
                                                    Ron

[David K]

This from a teacher: Kind of relevant to little emperors too.....
==========
Northland (New Zealand)  College  Principal John Tepene has offered the following words from an NZ judge who regularly deals with youth.

"Always we hear the cry from teenagers, 'What can we do, where can we go?'   
 My answer to this:
Go home, mow the lawn, wash the windows, learn to cook, build a raft, get a job, visit the sick, study your lessons and after you've finished, read a book.

Your town does not owe you recreational facilities and your parents do not owe you fun.
The world does not owe you a living, you owe the world something.
You owe it your time, energy and talent so that no one will be at war, in sickness and lonely again.

In other words grow up, stop being a cry baby, get out of your dream world and develop a backbone not a wishbone.
Start behaving like a responsible person. You are important and you are needed.

It's too late to sit around and wait for somebody to do something someday.
Someday is now and that somebody is you !"
===========
Amen to that

[Arnold]

..... but Mr. Judge! That sounds like "Work"... I don't even make my own Bed! Mommy does that, she wont let me do anything!