Author Topic: Debt and restrictions?  (Read 7148 times)

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Offline fivetrout

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Debt and restrictions?
« on: December 30, 2012, 06:06:48 am »
I'll try to explain the situation briefly. I've been skyping my gal for a year...with a planned trip in May. I know that her father has been ill with a heart condition and that has spent all her money and maxed out 6 credit cards for his surgery along with her two brothers. He is much improved and in much better health. Now the reality has come home. The banks have been pushing her for repayment, and now her house is at risk and on the market. She tells me that...she believes that the Chinese govt won't grant her a visa when she is in debt. I have read that assets are normally needed to prove she's not running off, and that she has good reason for returning (family, money, business). Is this true regarding her debt which is about 350000 yuan, or is it a matter of keeping face with the banks? She knows that I have a simple life, and I do send a bit to her each month $150USD but her debt is quite the mountain and I can't, and wouldn't touch even if I could. I think this will be reason for her to break up our relationship. My hands are tied and no power in this situation!

Chris

Offline Willy The Londoner

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Re: Debt and restrictions?
« Reply #1 on: December 30, 2012, 10:46:41 am »
Well Chris, I think that it is the country she is applying for a Visa to enter that may have the problem with her debt rather than the Chinese Government.  The host country wants to know that she will leave that country when her visa ends or that there is money to support her when settlement visa's are issued.

When my wife has applied for visa's for visits to UK the Chinese Government has never come into the Visa situation but she had to supply bank records to the UK government agency on each occasion.

Hospitals are expensive here for major operations - but my concern would be 6 credit cards!  These are not given out willy nilly like in the western world plus there are not the high limits per card either. Stringent checks are made for each one issued and low limits applied.  So not sure how her own debt has risen to 350,000 rmb - that is almost as much as I paid for our home here!  My niece who has just spent 500,000 rmb on two top of the range German cars and has bought a 2,000,000 home this year has only been able to get one Visa Credit card with a limit of 10,000 rmb

I am the Forums built in pessimist so I say be careful.  Even if you had the money you will still need to take steps to ensure that there is actually a debt.

From what you say it sounds as if you have not been to China to meet her in person yet. If that is so then you need to be doubly careful and in which case you should not really be sending her money at this time.   If you have been here and met her then still be careful - my eyes and ears have been opened by a friend here who is in the police who keeps me updated on various scams and most are the ones that are set up over many months.

If you want to chat privately to me about this on skype then just send me your skype details by PM here.

Plus if I remember correctly you found this lady on a dating website that is based in Rumania or at least one with the .ru for rumania as a suffix.  Scammers often use these sites because they ask no questions.

Willy





« Last Edit: December 30, 2012, 10:57:28 am by Willy The Londoner »
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Offline maxx

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Re: Debt and restrictions?
« Reply #2 on: December 30, 2012, 12:05:55 pm »
Chris I'm going with Willy on this something smells really bad.I have a friend in Zhuhai.Who isn't as well off as Willy's niece.And she has got a couple of credit cards.And like Willy said.They have real low credit limits.So you can't run up that kind of debt on a credit card.And since the hospitals in China operate on a cash only bases.IT would make me wonder.

As far as this messing with the Fiancee visa.No The U.S is not concerned.With what money your lady may or may not owe to a hospital in China.If she is after a tourist visa.Then that is a totally different story.And it will go down.Just like Willy Said.At no point and time.did I need a letter,Or credit report from the Chinese government.Stating my wife's credit worthiness.On a fiancee visa or a marriage visa.The U.s government knows that you are paying the bills while your fiancee/wife are in the states..

If you haven't visited this lady yet and you file for a fiancee visa.her visa application will be denied.If you visit China only once.There is a good possibility that her visa will be denied.Immigration wants to see many trips to China

Offline Robertt S

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Re: Debt and restrictions?
« Reply #3 on: December 30, 2012, 02:43:18 pm »
Well Chris, I think that it is the country she is applying for a Visa to enter that may have the problem with her debt rather than the Chinese Government.  The host country wants to know that she will leave that country when her visa ends or that there is money to support her when settlement visa's are issued.

When my wife has applied for visa's for visits to UK the Chinese Government has never come into the Visa situation but she had to supply bank records to the UK government agency on each occasion.

Hospitals are expensive here for major operations - but my concern would be 6 credit cards!  These are not given out willy nilly like in the western world plus there are not the high limits per card either. Stringent checks are made for each one issued and low limits applied.  So not sure how her own debt has risen to 350,000 rmb - that is almost as much as I paid for our home here!  My niece who has just spent 500,000 rmb on two top of the range German cars and has bought a 2,000,000 home this year has only been able to get one Visa Credit card with a limit of 10,000 rmb

I am the Forums built in pessimist so I say be careful.  Even if you had the money you will still need to take steps to ensure that there is actually a debt.

From what you say it sounds as if you have not been to China to meet her in person yet. If that is so then you need to be doubly careful and in which case you should not really be sending her money at this time.   If you have been here and met her then still be careful - my eyes and ears have been opened by a friend here who is in the police who keeps me updated on various scams and most are the ones that are set up over many months.

If you want to chat privately to me about this on skype then just send me your skype details by PM here.

Plus if I remember correctly you found this lady on a dating website that is based in Rumania or at least one with the .ru for rumania as a suffix.  Scammers often use these sites because they ask no questions.

Willy


+ 100000 points   What Uncle Willy said!
« Last Edit: December 30, 2012, 02:44:50 pm by robertt S »

Offline fivetrout

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Re: Debt and restrictions?
« Reply #4 on: December 30, 2012, 03:10:09 pm »
Thanks for your insight guys.
I feel pretty darn certain Hong is not opportunist and certainly not a scammer. I have plenty of experience with those types. I offered to pay for her English lessons and we work on those together. I believe because of face...she is the real deal. I have met her entire family on skype, her mother has sung songs to me, invited me into their home for dumplings, and are eager to meet me. Everyone approves including her 16 year old son. From the very beginning with Hong, she understood that I lived a fairly simple working class life. There has never been the tinyest inkling of a red flag. We spend hours together eagerly learning of the other, dancing, music, cooking foods, etc.
The situation with her father is not new to me, she has shared her concerns with me for over a year, and states the debt is well worth her fathers recovery, and I agree! Over the last few months she has become very stressed, she shows the bank statements and the fistfull of credit cards. Many times Hong has tried talking to the bank for help.
Last week she was keen on getting married in China, and last night she tells me she cannot come to America or marry me as she needs someone to help her with her debt, and so she will find a man with money. Hard to say if she was thinking aloud or telling me directly? Communication is still very rough. Sure I have things to say in those regards...pointed things, words to express my anger, my emotions, and my feelings of loss. However, I decided to bring it here instead...and I know there are cultural differences that I don't understand which may come into play.
I told her (kidding) that I need to find a rich girl...she said NO NO NO! I love you I love you!
So basically I don't have a clue as to whats going on or the outcome???

Chris

Offline daghoi

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Re: Debt and restrictions?
« Reply #5 on: December 30, 2012, 03:12:54 pm »


Willy is a sceptic, but often have rigth in the end, unfortunantly.

Wonder what the respons will be if you say you can come and visit her next week ;)

Hoping for the best for you.


Offline David E

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Re: Debt and restrictions?
« Reply #6 on: December 30, 2012, 05:23:39 pm »
I have to agree with Willy....

My wife (who is resident here in Aus with me), recently had to get involved with a health problem her Father in China developed.

He needed to go into Hospital for treatment and Ming asked me if we could help with the Hospital expenses as he had to have the cash to pay before they would treat him.

There are NO billing accounts for Hospitals in China except the "Westernised" Private Hospitals that are ruinously expensive anyway.

Just to be a sad sack....be aware that modern scammers are very sophisticated...they will "play their fish" for a long, long time if they think they will get paid eventually. All your protestations about being a normal, not-rich working guy will be politely ignored...after all you are  Western man...and ALL of them are rich, despite what they say.

You have already shown your willingness to part with money to a woman you have never met so the precedent is set.........sorry, but I think you are being played

The only way to begin to get resolution is to get over there soonest and see for yourself.

Offline fivetrout

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Re: Debt and restrictions?
« Reply #7 on: December 30, 2012, 06:28:47 pm »
I think anything is possible I guess...but why would she invest all her time knowing there would be no payoff outside of coming to the US? A few weeks back...she thought we should stay in the US until I retire...then go live in Weihai. Yesterday she mentioned she used to be rich and now very distressed about her financial situation. BTW when I offered her English lesson money, it was only after she made her sitting room into her bedroom because she rented her room out for extra money for the lessons. I wanted the privacy, and with the odd hours waking others.

I have read so must about Chinese women and money, it's hard to think she treats her love interest as a financial transaction.
Her home is on the market for 885000...so far the best offer is 650000, I guess if the bank "recovers" the home she will lose all face, yes?

I did tell her...that I am still coming to Wuhan in May to kiss her face! Haha But, I'd better have a backup plan for sure!

Chris
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Offline kiwisteve

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Re: Debt and restrictions?
« Reply #8 on: December 30, 2012, 09:02:59 pm »
Chris,

Good luck with everything and I hope it works out for you and her.

I have a good friend in Wuhan - a Chinese woman (not my gf) who is having her own issues with her American bf sick in hospital at the moment and she is unable to get over to the States to be with him. Anyway if you need a contact on the ground there let me know.

cheers,
Steve

Offline fivetrout

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Re: Debt and restrictions?
« Reply #9 on: December 30, 2012, 09:54:33 pm »
Hey thanks Steve so much! I'll keep that offer in mind.

Yup, she keeps calling on skype and phone, but after taking the wind from my sails...I'm just not in the mood to talk right now. She has some friends over today that speak English...but I won't be an entertainer today. haha

Offline Pineau

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Re: Debt and restrictions?
« Reply #10 on: December 31, 2012, 02:43:45 am »
fivetrout, keep your mouth open. She is about to set the hook. I have met several ladies in dire situations like this. Like willy said it is near impossible to run up that kind of debt on a couple of credit cards.
Don’t give up when you still have something to give. Nothing is really over until the moment you stop trying.
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Offline fivetrout

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Re: Debt and restrictions?
« Reply #11 on: December 31, 2012, 02:18:03 pm »
So she's not fishing barbless? haha  There's no meat on this skeleton... she will be sucking bones  :P

I do think it's more than C.C.s...a personal loan against her home maybe?

If she wants a fairly simple live with me? It's here for her. If she wants money...it's not here for her, and she knows it very clearly. Fourteen months has been quite of an investment for both regardless of motives.

The chips will fall where they are destined to fall.

Offline David K

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Re: Debt and restrictions?
« Reply #12 on: December 31, 2012, 05:16:53 pm »
Another fish being played..Nothing new here.. try doing a search on 'scam romance' on your local newspaper...

Here's one example (of thousands) from
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/news/article.cfm?c_id=2&objectid=10770276

"An Australian gynaecologist's search for love left him bankrupt and heartbroken after a A$3 million ($3.75 million) lonely hearts club scam.
Neil Wallman's tragic story of betrayal was revealed in the New South Wales Supreme Court, revolving around a Gold Coast dating agency, a mysterious Chinese-Australian blonde and a fabricated hunt through Croatia and the Philippines. "

You'd think Aussies would know better ....  ;)
« Last Edit: December 31, 2012, 05:21:11 pm by David K »
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Offline daghoi

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Re: Debt and restrictions?
« Reply #13 on: January 01, 2013, 02:44:57 am »
As you say fivetrout, anything is possible. It hard to say for sure whats going on until
you see her. It has som bad 'flair ' around so I would be careful. Keeper us posted , either way it ends.

Offline 1mansopinion

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Re: Debt and restrictions?
« Reply #14 on: January 04, 2013, 09:58:19 am »
Chris, Chris, Chris,

This is 1mansopinion, but I’m quite sure that I speak for others that have read your post.  The difference is that I’ll be a bit more blunt, straight to the point, and I may even hurt your feelings with some of the things that I’m going to write.  I think you need the “TRUTH SLAP” I’m going to give you.  Sure – it’s gonna sting for a bit, but you look like a man that can handle it. 

I came across this web site/forum because a friend sent me your story via web link.  I’m going to be honest with you.  The first words that I wrote to him were:  the story is pathetic and I want to cry, but I can't because it's too BLEEP funny.  Feel free to fill in the BLEEP with your favorite four letter word.  And I wrote that only after seeing the incomplete story.  When I clicked on the READ MORE, I genuinely felt sorry for you.  I have to put it straight to you.  You’re no kin to me and I don’t know you from Adam.  Heck, your real name could even be Adam.  I don’t think you’re using your real name as if anyone were to know the real you and were to read this story, you’d never hear the end of it.  You’d be the laughing stock of all your buddies at the bar.  That being said, I can see that you’re an older gentleman and you appear to be looking for love.  Aren’t we all?  Don’t we all want that one special man or woman that’s going to fulfill our every dream and desire?  I can’t blame you - or anyone - for searching for that light and ray of hope.  However, I live here in Guangzhou, Guangdong of the People’s Rep. of China and I’m sorry to say, but you should check off China on your list of places to find women to fall in love with and marry.  I suppose anything is possible:  We put a man on the moon, The Berlin Wall fell, the US elected its first black president and Osama bin Laden was found and killed.  Miracles can happen and every once-in-a-blue-moon, something happens that restores our faith and gives us hope.

I, along with others on this board, would love nothing more than to read a happy ending story, (not the normal happy ending one receives from the massage parlors here in China).  I would love to be proven wrong, but if Willy is the built in pessimist on this board, then a new moniker would need to be given to me.  I’m an American from the Bay Area of sunny California.  However, I’ve been living in China for five years and I can honestly say that I have a Bachelor’s Degree in the School of Hard Knocks.  That being the goings on, how it is, and the dealings in China.  You’re welcome to take it or leave it, but I would be remiss if I didn’t give you my two cents.

Let’s first get to your first sentence.  You call Hong “your gal.”  You’ve never physically met, touched, felt or even felt up this woman.  How can you call her “your gal?”  Skyping ain’t the same thing as sc---ing, and the last time I checked, Skyping doesn’t consummate a relationship. Before you get on a plane and fork out over $1,000.00, perform a simple test of “your gal.”  Apparently you’ve met this woman online – great.  Meet her online again.  I’ll explain.  Spend the money to create a new you.  Build a new profile and include a photo of one of your buddies or perhaps a photo of someone that you simply know at work.  Make the person in his forties, no kids and no ex-wives.  You could do divorced, but it’s best to have never been married than it is to be divorced for the purposes of this test.  Chinese women see being divorced as “something must be wrong with you” or the relationship, etc.  It’s best to be a man that’s worked hard all his life, has accomplished a bit of something and now wants a woman to enjoy the fruits of HIS labor.  TRUST ME ON THIS.  THEY WANT TO ENJOY THE FRUITS OF YOUR LABOR – NOT THEIRS.  The western way of sharing the household bills and expenses does not apply here in China.  Here in China, it’s what’s his is hers and what’s hers is…well – hers, too.  Start to chat with Hong as this new/you person.  See how far along you get into the pretend-lationship before you start to hear the sad story of her father.  I’ll bet a Benjamin Franklin that it won’t be longer than two weeks.  Ask her to send you photos.  Tell her you’re looking to marry in the near future because you’ve waited so long and now you want to enjoy the rest of your life.  Then see if she’s really Chris’s gal or new guy’s gal or anyone’s gal that’ll chat with her and send her money. 

I can’t walk past a DIM SUM shop without hearing about someone’s relative that’s ill or is in the hospital for this or that.  I’m not joking.  The health care in China is basic and in most cases, people need to wait for hours before being seen by a doctor.  And as for insured-billing (hilarious).  It’s either pay now or die later.  So, “your gal” and her siblings will be scrounging up money and checking the sofas for loose change to pay the hospitals.  Let me tell you this true story.  Just two weeks ago, I had a woman over for a visit.  She gave me the same song and dance about her father.  He, too, is in the hospital.  She told me that her favorite car is a BMW and with the money that she and her family have spent to keep her father alive, she said she thinks she could have bought a BMW already – or as the Chinese call the German brand – BAO MA.     

Next thing is this:  You write that you are pretty darn certain.  Read that again.  Is that like – you almost won the lottery and you were pretty darn close?  You either are certain or you aren’t certain, but there’s no pretty darn certain.  You’ve met her entire family on Skype?  You mean you’ve seen their faces on Skype.  FACE is huge in China and no one is better at showing a great face than the Chinese people.  Her mother has sung songs to you on Skype?  The Chinese love KTV and there’s one on every street corner.  A KTV is as ubiquitous in China as McDonald’s is in the states.  The Chinese will sing at the drop of a hat.  She invited you into their home for dumplings?  That’s SOP (Standard Operating Procedure).  You’ll get tea by the gallon, and depending on what festival they’re having, you’ll get offered Moon Cakes, Mandarin oranges, etc.  As for her statement of finding someone to help her with her debt and will marry a man with money – she’s not lying.  And as far as her loving you – that’s fine and all, but she’s not kidding.  She may love you (in as much as the Chinese know what true love really is), but like I always tell my buddy, “What’s Love Got To Do With It?”  The filial duty she has for her parents and family will come first over her feelings of love for you.  Love can’t pay those hospital bills.  Love don’t pay da rent. 

Your words:  I have read so must about Chinese women and money, it's hard to think she treats her love interest as a financial transaction.You’re going to feel like this the moment you touch down.  You’re not necessarily a financial transaction as you are more of an ATM – (Ask The Man for Money)

First things first:  Create a new/you.  Chat her up on that dating site and then take it offline over to Skype.  Create a new Skype ID.  It sure beats wasting over $1,000.00 on air fare and then the money you’re going to spend when you get here in China.  And believe me – you’re going to spend money.  As a white foreigner – and American to boot – you’ll be expected to be rich by Chinese standards.  And of course everyone is supportive of your relationship and her 16yr. old son, too.  To them, you represent the winning Lotto ticket.  He's counting the video games he's (or rather you) are going to buy him. 

I hope I’m wrong, Chris.  Please prove me and the rest of us wrong.  Write us back in May and post us with a happy ending – no pun intended and no picture necessary.