Pandora's box?

[fivetrout]

Hi men!

First! Ok, I've been completely loyal and committed to Hong for a year and a half. I'm going to go and see her at around the end of Sept when it's a bit cooler. We have had our ups and downs about money and buying houses. She is very stubborn on this issue. I tell her we should work on buying a house in the states, she has a need to have one in China first. Since our communication is at best crazy, I think there's some incentive for her at retirement? From government? Or her job at Dongfeng Motor Corp? Is this a possibility? Anyway, she tells me Wuhan will become a big player in future economics and the airport a new hub for international flights making a home purchase a really smart investment. I tell her I lost my ass with the housing crash in the states a few years back like millions, but this doesn't faze her.

Secondly! With this uncertainty in our relation, I began to wonder about so many pros and cons I've read about concerning a back-up plan, just in case this all goes downhill in a flash. We do love one another but some hills might be to tall to climb! For curiosity, entertainment and enlightenment I started looking around at chineselovelinks. In just a week I've met some beautiful and interesting women (I discount the girls) haha My profile clearly states...I've been writing romantically to just one woman, and for a long time, but are open to writing to others on a friendly level only. However! My box is full of letters now, from some very sweet and gorgeous ladies in which my intuitions tells me are mostly legit and very sincere. The young hotties I just tease! haha

So, am I in this boat alone? How many others here have strayed a little. If things go south, or with marriage...is it a bad plan to have "friends" to call on as back-ups?

Chris

[Willy The Londoner]

She is protecting her future.  She goes to USA with you and should things go wrong she has nothing in China to return to.  However a home in China will be her home. There are only 2 or three cities in China where foreigners can be the owner or part owner of a home and Wuhan is not one of them.

Plus it would appear that you have not your own house in the USA now. Not many Chinese women what to move into rented accommodation when moving out of China. There is no security in that for them. There is definately no kudos for them to tell their friends in China that they will be living in a rented home!

Plus the phrase 'We should Work on buying a house in US'  That makes her think you want her in the USA to work so that you can pay for a house basically for you there. No wonder she wants a house in China first.

There has not been many who have come on here and spoken of the uncertainty in a relationship after such a long period.
However the fact that you have been 'committed' for 18 months then why are you playing games with others?   Maybe she has sensed the reservations you have! 18 months or more is a long time to wait to finally meet someone face to face for the first time.

I think that any further opinions I have on this should be put in obeyance in the sake of forum harmony.

Willy

[fivetrout]

Hi Willy, belated birthday!
I understand the security thing for her, but working is her idea. I suggested after she is here we can plan for something in china for our future retirement. She also loves Weihai and has looked there. I know property in china for Americans is tricky and I wouldn't venture the idea unless I am secure in the relationship. Unfortunately for me...love in measured in $$ to her it seems... and I have a problem with that. I have always been committed to her, and will fully continue, but it is from her perspective that I only have... and members input. I'm just thinking out loud for the most part...and not leading anyone on!

[IrishGuy65]

I don't have as much time in as you, or anyone else here.  But maybe what's going on with me can give you some insight into your own situation.

My girl and I have been talking since February.  I can't say I've fallen in love with her yet, because I believe we really need to meet face to face and spend some time together to verify any 'internet' feelings we have.  But I do feel she is a very special woman and she already has a place in my life and my heart.  I am making the trip next week, and hope things go well with us.  After this trip, I hope we are sure, and secure, in our feelings and relationship.

Anyway, we've talked about the future quite a bit.  I know she cares for me and has deep feelings.  However, there is so much uncertainty about moving to a new country and starting a new life.  It is very, very hard for many of these women that have never seen much changes in their life.  My understanding is that, in China, renting a place is not permanent.  In fact, the lease is not completely ironclad, and so you could get kicked out of your rental with little notice.  That's not really a way to live.  And this scares Chinese women.  They want you to have a place of your own so that there is one less thing they need to worry about in moving to the USA for you.  Look at it from her perspective. It's a frightening thing, moving so far away, from all your friends, relatives, comfortable life... to somewhere that you don't know anyone, the language is different, and you have to depend on someone else.

Anyway, my girl has explained many things to me about moving to the USA with me.  She has explained why a house is so important to her.  She's lived in the same place a long, long time.  She's not used to moving around.  She wants a place that she can call home, and know that it will always be home. In a world of chaos and confusion and the unknown, it is a steady, secure, and sure place that never changes.   It is important.  You say love is all about money to her.  I don't know her or the situation, but think of why these things are important.  Western women, in my experience, don't care about the security as much as the 'wow' factor.  They want the fancy car and big house and expensive clothes.  Chinese women just want to know they are going to be secure when they move here.  A house, not a big fancy house, seems to be all she wants.  That doesn't seem like an outlandish request to me.  For myself, I rent also.  I am putting money aside to buy a house for her.  In the end, I will be paying the same in mortgage as I'm paying in rent... less actually.  So, is it really a bad thing?  If you can commit to a relationship, you can commit to a house

Anyway, they are coming to a situation where they basically have little knowledge and less control.  We have to take the time to give them a sense of permanence that will make them feel they can go to for solace and comfort.

Finally, you have to understand the difficulties in a long distance relationship.  It's going to be hard in many ways.  If you are looking for another woman, then this woman is probably not the right woman for you.  You should seriously consider your actions, and what they mean...  And either be fair and faithful to Hong, or let her down easy and move on. "Testing the waters" is a step away from cheating.  Too many Chinese women deal with this as part of their culture.  Don't do this.

Take all this with the knowledge that I am likely the least experienced person here as far as Chinese women go.  This is what I've learned from my girl and this forum.

[fivetrout]

Hey all,
Some good points here to ponder. But a few are off the mark. Oh, she wants to come to the U.S. but not as much for her...but her son as she told me. I am relocating this weekend to another state and to somewhere a bit better suited for her and her son, and so a rental is whats on the menu for awhile. I had a walk away foreclosure and lost my azz financially a few years back, so to buy soon isn't an option even though I have some money. I've sent her examples (pics) of different types of rental property to stem off some negativity she has. Her eyes widened at some (in a good way). I also have her on my life ins. for a bit more security and she knows it. It was my idea to retire in China, and she appreciates that also.

Also I not romantically pursuing ANYONE else. These profile also say...pen-pal and friends also! I've dropped a few already that attempted to take ownership of me. I'm guessing pen-pal and friendship is the same as marriageability to them.

So instead of you all ripping me a new one! NOTE she has asked me to help her buy a house prior to marriage! She considers our marriage a done deal already. Maybe she's an angel, maybe not? But do not dare judge me because she's on a pedestal in your eyes! After all, I'm applying much of what I learned HERE!

But you are correct in saying, I see through my perspective...I need to remember that!

Chris

[Willy The Londoner]

I think Mike has put it neatly into 4 sentences very well.

I would add that Chinese women would prefer on the whole to be married to a Chinese Man and to live in China in happiness.

A nation such as the USA with nationalities intermingled from just about all parts of the world, as apart from the Native Americans, the vast majority are not 'native Americans' and may find this difficult to understand this.

For a Chinese person to consider moving outside Chine they will need to know that there will be an improvement in their life or an improvement in the life and potential of any existing child,. This latter will ensure that they are looked after should the need arise in later years. The same was said of all immigrants to the USA, they went there for a BETTER life not the same life they had back in their own countries.

In most cases the 'love' she has for a foreigner will last for as long as her life remains good. Others on here have fallen foul of that level and as a result the relationship has ended.   Chinese women may fall in love for loves sake alone but then they will have deep considerations as to whether that love will improve what they already have.

We are not ripping into you but remember a lot of women will never see your profile and whatever is on it. They will look to you as being a marriageable prospect and maybe your lady may well come across it. 

You should not really be planning any future together until you get that first meeting over. Then decide.  I will not repeat my first experience in that on here.

That is why 18 months is too long for someone to leave it before coming here.  I think Irish Guy has done everything about right and he seems to have a clear idea on things.

No one is putting her on a pedestal and no one is putting you down.  From the time you meet to the time you get her to the USA is going to be many months, more than a year even in cases where the husband has lived here so it is during that time that the serious planning should take place.

Willy

[fivetrout]

I'm willing to bet here... many if not all the men here, have had one or more failed marriages, and or relationships. Many are seeking women elsewhere, when in fact many failures were their own faults and inabilities, myself included. Some of those think a strong family orientated traditional woman, can and will mend short- cummings and deficiencies in themselves. But the lessons we have learned in life with regard to women, painfully, is that we must now choose wisely, and measure potential women by their actions, merits, and by their good character and willingness to follow through. But with the Asian woman, it seems to me...most of the valued painful lessons we learned on our life paths...get a free pass in the name of cultural differences. I'm not saying these are not treasured women, we all understand the beauty and enrichment a great woman can bring to our lives, but throw out the book? Putting yourself back into a situation whereas you are gambling once again with uncertainty and self risk? We tell ourselves now that we have a keen intuition in such matters, and we have the emotional scars to prove it. And that we will use logic and good judgments in our selection of future women whom will play a giant role in our future happiness. Yet time and time again, we fall into our own traps. We proceed on half truths at times and hope for the best outcomes. Hong in my case...asked me to help her buy a house prior to a possible pending marriage, and as Willy pointed out, a can't do in Wuhan with foreigners. Has anyone here shown outrage at such a request? No! They speak of culture differences and security for the poor tender dear! Well, from my self learned lessons in life...the women needs to be equal in all efforts in developing and maintaining a life long loving relationship. She will only get a free pass for cultural indifference's... within reason. One cannot just look at the perks and try to balance things out with the ideas your not comfortable with. When opening your heart, you still need to hang on to your principles and to not fall into your same repeated failure traps. Women are women, you can only bend who you fundamentally are so far because of culture, but also acknowledge there are lines not to be crossed when we are uncomfortable with them.

I am a gambler, a risk taker, and an adventurer of sorts. I usually go after what I want. In this case it is Hong. But she had better walk the walk with me, no matter what the culture is. No manipulators. No queen of Shelba's. No ivory tower dwellers! A simple good wife, friend, and lover.

OK, I'm done for the night.

[Willy The Londoner]

I'm willing to bet here... many if not all the men here, have had one or more failed marriages, and or relationships. 

You lose the bet on the if not all the men her have had a failed marriage or relationship.  This one was my first and and only one. I have never lived with anyone other than my present wife.
Willy

[Willy The Londoner]

Having read the remainder of your last posting them I think maybe that you are in for a very rough or a very short ride.

Willy

[fivetrout]

Well, there are prince's on white horses, and then there's those of us that ride an old grey nag with a limp. I fall into the latter I guess. But with the passions I have...she will feel as thou she's riding a unicorn! Did I just say something xxx rated? haha

Sometimes we just need to air out frustrations.

[David E]

Whether it is a first or a 10th Marriage, whether it is with a Chinese Woman or a Martian, what you can NEVER have is a bullet proof guarantee that it will work.
We go into this situation as a result of a conscious, or un-conscious risk taking evaluation. All our previous experiences, good and bad plus all the feedback we get from friends, significant others and most importantly, from our own wants and needs...lead us to a final decision.

And that's about all it adds up to...it is still a risk.

To be certain of avoiding an emotional and/or financial disaster there is only one sure way...dont do it.

However, most of us here wont consider the do nothing option....if we are serious about finding a worthy partner we have done all we can to rationalise and minimise the risk. We have chosen a difficult and complex route because we believe the reward justifies the time, hassle and risk of a Chinese Bride. We believe that their basic character and culture more closely fit what we perceive as our "ideal" situation.

There is enough evidence, both here and on the wider stage of some of the red-flag scenarios that require getting into the "bolt" mode, so presumably we get past this stage and move into mental modelling of "how will it be with this woman"

Is it logic, or fear, or common sense that injects uncertainty into our minds about now ??...because it remains a risk.

Finally....you need to take a risk...thats life....but it must be a rational risk...not suicide.

Its not going to be perfect, you both have mountains of difficulties to overcome...whether she moves to your Country, or you move to hers...one of you will be right out on a limb.
Speaking for my Chinese wife, I know that she found the move to Aus to be seriously threatening and scary...different language, different culture and removal from he long held and treasured family and friends support network (VERY inportant to a Chinese woman). I therefore accepted that she must have a very high level of tolerance, support and encouragement from me and my family, and to always keep mindful of the fact that she virtually placed her life in my hands...and I take that very seriously indeed.

The rewards for both of us have been worth the risk...but nevertheless it was a risk....but I'm eternally happy that we took this risk.

[fivetrout]

Thanks, more of what I wanted to hear. She does back off when I explain the logic against it...usually. Emotionally I'm very secure, as I have lived and lost, and survived a nightmare past relationship. It's where my logic's foundation comes from today in which I depend for guidance these days. The current issues need not arise after the fact if I display all my cards beforehand. Only she can determine whether she is up for the task and challenges for herself, but I will keenly watch for an investment of herself in this relationship. When I feel great about it...then I will run with it.

Chris

[Willy The Londoner]

Well it is only a couple of months until September so I hope your making your plans for that rather than too far ahead.

That first two or three weeks together will be either the starting point or the failing of what could be a beautiful relationship.

Remember if she has a job then she may not be able to get off work for the whole time you are there. Many companies only allow staff to have longer holidays for Chinese New Year so be prepared to spend some time alone during the day in such events.  At least it will give you time to explore the locality you are in.

Willy
 

[fivetrout]

Willy,
as she tells me...she will holiday for as long as I'm there...for play. That sounds good, yes?

China bound,
at the beginning there was no hurry... as she was taking English classes, and we were learning of the other on skype often. I really didn't want to experience Wuhan (stovepipe) in the summer. I not a heat type person. Then for the last 6 months I was looking to relocate, dealing with jobs deadlines, and yes, she started to get inpatient. So I decided to go after summer. Next week I will have a new address as I am packing for my move now...and I wanted a permanent address for visa and travel paperwork.

[Willy The Londoner]

Willy,
as she tells me...she will holiday for as long as I'm there...for play. That sounds good, yes?

Do not get to excited I have been asked to 'Play' many times. It just means getting out and about visiting places.
Willy