Author Topic: Just when........  (Read 25413 times)

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Vince G

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Re: Just when........
« Reply #45 on: November 10, 2013, 07:36:49 pm »
There is no such "franchise" in the Catholic (business) religion I can tell you that. If there is a Catholic church anywhere there? There has to be a Diocese (Head office). Make a complaint.

Offline JohnB

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Re: Just when........
« Reply #46 on: November 10, 2013, 08:26:55 pm »
you guys are much to nice. David, call the cops!

Offline David E

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Re: Just when........
« Reply #47 on: November 10, 2013, 08:29:28 pm »
No, no, no John....

Getting the cops involved at this stage will only get them a slap on the wrist with a wet bus-ticket....

What I have set in motion is something MUCH more relevant........but not for general publication....yet.

Offline JohnB

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Re: Just when........
« Reply #48 on: November 10, 2013, 08:32:17 pm »
David,
you have to admit, down deep, revenge is sweet.

Offline Willy The Londoner

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Re: Just when........
« Reply #49 on: November 10, 2013, 08:44:23 pm »
I know that there is a religion thread but as religion is a major part of the problem David has encountered then I feel that it can be discussed here.

The problem is that there are so many 'underground Churches' in China. Some are supported quite heavily by the Catholic Church based outside of China, especially from Hong Kong, but those supporters even deny the existence of them.

Churches are permitted in China which are regulated like everything else here.  But the underground churches are the ones that cause problems here, these are the ones heavily influenced by some of the so called 'Elmer Gantry' style American Evangelist.   I refer to those who do it for their own benefit of which a large number do.

They know that China will have or probably does already have the largest numbers of Christians than any other country and large numbers brings a very large dollar income.  We all know the culture of the red envelope that is prevalent here and more so within these underground churches.

China is ripe for expansion for these but they are unable to do it through the normal Anglican style Churches that are allowed to openly operate.

Evangalism is not specifically banned but there is a law which they invoke which covers many things and it is one that outlaws the attempts to change peoples minds or opinions in public places.

You have a lot of fodder available to you David.    I know that with your resources and ability you will be finding out more and putting it to good use.

I for one will back you all the way.

Willy




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Offline David E

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Re: Just when........
« Reply #50 on: November 10, 2013, 09:58:59 pm »
Willy

You are exactly right....I feel more and more sure that these scum who have led my gullible ( >:( >:( >:) Wife down this track are setting her up with intros to other "like minded" special Catholics in Chengdu......I am sure they are out to keep milking this particular cow (no insult intended).

But she goes to Chengdu with very little money...all her sources of MY cash have been stopped and I know she only has limited funds of her own.

BTW...I know this all has a religious context, but we sure are not discussing Religion...so I think it's OK to continue...if the mods dont agree, please let me know.

I now know exactly WHO they are in Perth, I know where they live and I know something about how they operate. I will find out more in the next few days before I begin my own program of resolution.

And yes John..."Vengance is mine sayeth the Lord".........but I humbly beg to differ on this specific point.

Shaun...they are exactly that...SCAMMERS...I dont believe for one second that they are motivated by any Christian ideas of salvation through God....only luxury through extortion.

Vince...at some point I WILL get the local Catholic heirarchy involved...but here in Aus, after they have been shown abysnally and totally morally bankrupt over the Priest/Child abuse issue over 50 years or more...I doubt they will spring into action....how that Church could stand ANOTHER scandal is beyond belief....they would probably deny all knowlege of such a Scam.

Lastly, Willy...she WILL get on that plane, I insist. She WILL have discussions with her Chinese Catholics and she WILL have to face her parents and relatives over this issue.

What I have NOT guaranteed is whether I will be in a frame of mind to let her back into my life/home. I cant stop her coming back to Aus...she has that right as a permanent Resident...but I can stop her coming back to me...........I dont want to make that decision yet...things are too raw and I know that "When it is not necessary to make a decision...it is necessary NOT to make a decision".

Nil desperandum

Offline maxx

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Re: Just when........
« Reply #51 on: November 10, 2013, 11:35:19 pm »
This thread is fine where it's at.

Maxx

Offline Willy The Londoner

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Re: Just when........
« Reply #52 on: November 11, 2013, 02:47:24 am »


Nil desperandum

David, I know that you have given this a great deal of thought and you are the one to make decisions from your side.
I like to hear you quoting that old English phrase.  Well maybe Latin but probably the only one that most British men can translate.

Willy
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Offline shaun

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Re: Just when........
« Reply #53 on: November 11, 2013, 03:43:16 am »
David I know I said that I would not participate in any religious discussion here.  But I would like to share a few comments about cults and I will use previous published information about a cult called, "The Way International." There is much written about them on the internet and in books.  I am hoping this might give you some insight to what might be going on with your wife.  I am not saying your wife is a member of a cult but it isn't beyond the realm of possibility.  I am saying that scam artist will use cultish ways to recruit new members.

"One of the most damaging aspects of The Way is the ability of its leadership to control many of the thoughts and actions of its followers, using  tactics of mind control. This is not strictly speaking "brainwashing" (which uses physical abuse), but is the use of emotionally manipulative tactics to direct a person's attitudes and behavior. The Way also routinely condemns everyone outside the organization of being "possessed by devil spirits." The Way member often tells the children of divorced parents to be wary of, resist, not obey, or avoid the fallen-away parent (the one who has left The Way) to protect themselves from the influence of the parent's devil spirits."

"Way teachers also typically attack verbally anyone who is not in The Way, so as children accept Way teaching, they tend to turn against parents and family members who are not in The Way. "

"Steven Hassan, in his book, Combating Mind Control, describes several features common to groups like The Way, which use such tactics of  mental coercion, including:
•making followers fearful that terrible things will happen to them if they disobey leadership or leave the group. Way leaders say that if followers disobey, they will be "outside the protection of the household," and so they "will be a grease spot by midnight," that they will be involved in a terrible accident, and that they will destroy their relationship with God.
•requiring followers to obey leadership strictly, even on seemingly minor issues, and even when obedience damages the followers' lives. For instance, Way members are compelled to sell their homes if there is a mortgage of any size (even if rental rates are much higher than the mortgage payment), quit a job, and move to a new city to be near leadership.
•inducing thought control by requiring recruits to use only approved language and jargon.
•causing followers to block out all information from outside the group. They are required to burn literature which was written by former followers of The Way who left it, even if the content of the books does not contradict current teachings of The Way. They are not allowed to read literature critical of The Way, are told not to read teaching by any religious group except The Way, and are taught that even distributing the Bible without The Way's teaching will mislead people.
•isolating followers by requiring them to forsake all outside activities (including children's school activities) in order to devote long hours to group meetings and work.
•"confronting" errant followers by yelling, screaming, cursing, haranguing, and verbally battering followers until they obey leadership.
•compelling youth, as well as parents, to "renew their minds" by submitting themselves to constant indoctrination, including The Way publications, classes, taped sermons, and so forth. They are compelled to attend Way meetings several nights a week, usually at the expense of all other school, community, and family activities."


Having been through something like this with a close family member, I know how maddening this can be to those watching it happen.  The scam artist find a weak point to enter into someone's life, fill them with some apparent truth, then slowly enlighten them with some special knowledge that to someone like you or me is nothing but foolishness.  Once they have accepted that, they are hooked because they have some special revelation that most don't.  I can see how easy it is to snare some into cults like this.

The diamond and platinum twist is something I've not heard of before which sounds a little cultish to me.

Your wife has had a lot of new ideas, concepts, and social standing thrown at her over the last few years.  I can easily see how one can be sucked into something undesirable like this.

I hope some of this helps as you decide your future.
« Last Edit: November 11, 2013, 04:54:36 am by shaun »

Offline Martin

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Re: Just when........
« Reply #54 on: November 11, 2013, 06:49:23 am »
Like Maxx said, the thread is fine. This isn't a religious debate...this is an actual real event taking place, so it stands separate from a religious debate.

Offline David E

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Re: Just when........
« Reply #55 on: November 11, 2013, 03:46:47 pm »
Shaun

Thanks for that info. I am more and more convinced that she is NOT dealing with any bona fide religious Organisation. It fits far more closely with a "cult" as you have described. I am still a bit mystified how she could so easily fall prey to such bloody rubbish...especially considering the quality of life she enjoys here in Aus....if she was an abused, no-hope, starving penniless Peasant I could see where the "promise" of a better life would have some appeal...but these Scaleys are all Chinese so you know the rule...."If it is said by a Chinese person, it carries the absolute mark of truth and should not be confused with facts" !!! I have found this to be a somewhat frustrating part of our relationship...she is prepared to believe some real rubbish when it comes from QQ or some other Chinese source and it has always been a struggle to inject some truth and logic into the debate.

However, in this particular circumstance, these bastards have forgotten Management rule No 34...." When you grab a Tiger by the tail...make bloody sure you have an effective strategy to deal with it's Teeth "......as I said before, they have no idea what horrors are coming up the slope.

Willy...there is a modern "version" of Nil desperandum...it is "Nil carborundum".....literally translated means "dont let the bastards grind you down"  ;D ;D ;D

Offline JC

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Re: Just when........
« Reply #56 on: November 12, 2013, 01:17:07 pm »
Hello David E,

I do not reply much, just a few times here and there, but I also have learned and gained some insight as to the depth of these things through your posts, so thank you for that.

It seems that through some of the discussion here the situation went from defining love as committing suicide by drowning to now uncovering the intercession of individuals seeking to manipulate and control you wife through an undefined cult.  Yet by the the same means that you established the spiritual authority by meeting with the priest in Chengdu, they say there is no one here to do that.  So now you see things going back to China.

I have stayed out of this as I am a born again believer, but yes as it has been posted there are many that use that to set up their own church/cult/ business.  But now you have separated the source of the divide, meaning it is no more about jumping in the ocean, and now jumping in the religious deception over what is right/true and what is bull#@$%.

I see that you are well able to jump in and grab your wife out of this, there are many ways,

There are many here that want to, and have been here to help you, but really be uncovering what is at the core of this divide is emotional and at the the same time very clear,

One way I may suggest is that if this is a group that bases its presumed legitimacy on Jesus Christ as Lord, then they are NOT a stand alone authority and what they are/ or are not/ teaching should be brought out in the light.  Just like this ocean scenario can be discussed on what she would really want a husband who loves her to do.

Just another way to direct the issue, meaning her trust and your commitment,

I see this has been a hard one, I do honor you in this,

James C
« Last Edit: November 12, 2013, 01:30:56 pm by JC »
At Home, At Play, it is not allays my way.   It works better that way.

Offline David E

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Re: Just when........
« Reply #57 on: November 12, 2013, 03:34:50 pm »
Thanks for your comments James.

The purpose (IMHO) of the "drowning wife" story was to implant in Ming's mind that I was very much in need of salvation, because only a "bad" husband would hesitate and not immediately leap in to the water to save his wife....even at the expense of his own death. I believe they made this point to ensure that I got dragged into their net....because they KNOW that I am the real source of big money for the future...if only they could get Ming to be the one who dragged me into this web.

They obviously have some expertise on working on Chinese people who have some level of vulnerability, I still find it hard to understand how or why she fell for this rubbish....maybe you are right, there is a deeper issue that I am not clever enough to understand. Whatever the reason, I can say with absolute honesty that I have bust my gut to make sure she had a great life here...and I dont know what else I could have done.

The purpose of me confronting the Buddhist Priest in Chengdu was because I had a defined target, with a defined agenda...he was easy to change. These people here are a less clear target....either they are serious in a religious sense, or they are just out-and-out scammers. That is the current focus of my investigations along with a number of Private and Official people who are now becoming involved. Either way, before making any moves it is essential to understand what and who they are, and then deal with it.
Once I have enough knowlege and understanding of what these people represent, I will move to resolution.

Cheers...David

Offline JC

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Re: Just when........
« Reply #58 on: November 12, 2013, 08:02:34 pm »
David E,

Sounds like the right answer, just as in the drowning scenario, (I agree these are deceptive, unethical, and very dangerous to their victims) in the previous matter of just jumping in to save someone who fell into rough waters, the best way to save them was NOT to just jump in, but get help.

As I mentioned, I am a born again believer, but this situation is not anything like what I found.  These individuals are dangerous and need to be exposed.

Jesus taught Love, and Peace, she should know this from her Buddhist teachings, also
There is wisdom in Godly council, if you do have Christian friends maybe they can help.

If they really believe in what they are promoting as their religion then they are using the Bible, if they are scamming and manipulating then they have their own doctrine aside from the Bible.  This is where the teachings and manipulation comes in subtly.  It is not about faith, it is about control.

There are so many scriptures that can be twisted, and are.  The Bible is straight forward about deception and truth but they can be measured.

David, a few of the basic ways you can define some of these things are what I use:

A, the difference between Love that is real and one that is twisted per the Bible, Love gives, Lust takes (they are taking or selling tickets)
B, there is wisdom in council, (they want to keep things close and quite)
C, Peace, not so much in society but in the home & heart, (they are tearing this apart)

Anyway, thank you for allowing me to respond I know the born again'ers are not tops on your list, but really this group is out-of-control, and not in line with trying to change their own lives, rather they are trying to manipulate others.

I do pray this will be exposed and your family made whole.

James C
At Home, At Play, it is not allays my way.   It works better that way.

Offline Willy The Londoner

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Re: Just when........
« Reply #59 on: November 12, 2013, 08:32:35 pm »
David is on the right tracks.

We need to remember it may not be the 'foot' soldiers that are the problem but those higher up in the feeding trough.

Religion is big business and I mean really big business. People realised long long ago just what can be earned from it.  it is not unusual for some of these self proclaimed preachers to be raking in 200 million US dollars and more every year.  And because of US Laws not one cent has to be accounted for - no one knows where it goes and into whose pockets.

One well known evangelist said that he would release his accounts but they never came and when asked he simply said 'God told me not to' The synical said 'Oh yea!'  but his tens of thousands of followers keep on pumping in their 20 dollars a month to support his high life. 

David is well able to fight this battle having set up his own parameters but if he needs any assistance we are here for him. We and others that come after us should remember it is not just our actions that can cause major problems within a relationship but those of 'outsiders' can play a part in it.

Willy

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