Improvement Ideas

[JohnB]

“Perhaps, my post will be moderated or deleted...LOL! It doesn't matter!” 
Looks like “Happy” hoppy away.
Happy, I'm not going to touch your posts as it appears you just like to have fun.


“Since this site is highly moderated it would be fair to explain this to people up front, so that they are aware of it.
It is extremely annoying, and discomforting, as well as hurtful, for people to have posts deleted without any reason or explanation.”
mpo
hey, give this mod a chance! I mean, your post is like a glaring red stop light, in the middle of nowhere, on the darkest of nights.
Since your “long effort @ ?” a couple weeks ago, I have not touched, altered, deleted or even have given any serious thoughts
to any of your posts that you may have so eloquently fashioned from whatever noble purpose that rampaged your mind. It appears
you have spent a lot of time “fashioning” your posts and I am not one to piss on anybody's doorstep if they are serious in helping
the site become a better, a more worthy, read.

Anyway, I am not a “strict constructionist”...I am just as liberal as the New York Times. Write whatever you want to write as long as
it is written within the parameters of what Robert earlier wrote. Be civilized in how you conduct your behavior. Just like a football
field (American), long & wide with lots of room to roam, but definitely has the “out- of- bounds” clearly marked off (maybe we should do
glaring neon for the sight handicapped).   

Mike, all your contributions are much appreciated!

[Willy The Londoner]

I went over and had a look at the 'Other' heavily moderated  site.  The last posting made there was over two weeks ago, and the second to last was made three weeks ago.

I do not think that making this a fully moderated site would make it any more attractive than that one.

The beauty of this site, and it is basically the same reason that I joined up 5 years ago, is that you could rely on very speedy replies to any problem you had.

OK in between there has been a couple of times when things on here got personal, things went too and fro that maybe should not have been said on an open forum.  But they are not a regular occurrence.   We must remember that we are all humans and each have our failings as well as good points so these occasions, both good and bad, will arise in the future.   So let not throw out the baby with the bathwater.

I can remember, a few years back,  when one member got into some serious trouble whilst in China and it was only almost instant action by other members that resolved the situation within hours.   That could not have happened with a moderated forum!

We have a new batch of moderators appointed so lets see how they handle things.

Willy

[maxx]

As one of the founding memebers. We did start this forum. So that if you were posting something. You could get an answer quickly. And as others have posted it has helped in allot of different situations.

[Martin]

Irishman was the first to run into problems in China, and was able to work his way through issues using this group. He wasn't the last. It is because of the ability to post questions or issues without waiting for a moderator to approve the posts that allow for fast responses from the other members.

[maxx]

Irishman wasn't the first. He was the one we remember the most.Because of the shear number of posts he made. There was probably four or five guys before Irishman. That ran into trouble in China. And we helped them work it out. Because they were getting a answer or a suggestion. Before they over thought something and got themselves all screwed up.

Anyway if you moderate the posts before they are posted. Then we have become what we despised the most about the other site.

[mpo]

I can see a concensus here for the group.
It seems that you all agree

1. Moderated discussions are discussions where message postings are monitored and controlled.

2. The old site was tightly moderated by a small group that was in power over the mass of users, and it had a lot of problems.

3. It was not a problem for the small group that held the power, they were not subject to the negative effects.

4. It was not so great for those that were the subject of all of the monitoring and controlling, for them it really sucked!

5. Posts were held off from being made public, this caused a lot of frustration, and delay. Even worse was when your post was rejected with a short reason given such as "not good", or "breaks the rules". Even post that were "good" would not appear in public for 12 to 24 hours, a very long and difficult delay period, which prevented any active discussion.

6. The end result was people were discouraged from posting at all, and even driven away from the site, because of all the monitoring and controlling, and it is a dead site now.


This site is also highly moderated, but it is better because:

1. Posts are created and appear in public right away.

2. Every post is monitored and controlled by a select group of power users, who screen every post.

3. Offensive posts are immediately deleted, but Non-Offensive posts are selectively edited to keep the power users happy. It is fast and effcient since no reason need be given at all for cutting out and editing of the "bad" posts.

4. This is great for the people in the select power group they can post whatever they want and delete whatever they don't like, they are in control.

5. It is not so great for those outside of the power group, in fact, at times it really sucks, and if you don't like it, you have no recourse but to go post some where else, Because any posts that question or complain about the monitoring or controlling of your "offending" post is also deleted.

6. The end result is that people are discouraged from posting at all, and even driven away from the site, because of all the monitoring and controlling, and the site is actually an exclusive club for those that are in the power group. Clearly they are all in agreement that being on the inside, life is great, and they do not want to change anything

So it is not really a surprise to see that all of the people who are in the power position are all in agreement that life here is good, and they are very happy with how things work, they are all on the good end of the stick, and there is no reason to change a thing.

For those that are outside the power group, however, they realize that they are the subject, and sometimes the target, of another that holds power over them, and life here is not as good, they are not as happy with how things work, they are all on the other end of the stick. And since things are not going to change for them, they end up leaving.

This is how things work here since 2008 when I started. Over time I "learned" to post less and less, and have seen many others leave this site, because the reality of being outside of the power group sinks in and they would rather go elsewhere.

[JohnB]

Mike, with all due respect, you are seeing ghosts where there are none.
Since the Robert era, your posts are not altered, deleted...all are intact as you authored.
Think it safe to say, if anything can be said, is that the members who choose to address
your concerns, have known you for many years, are sympathetic, care about you, but
understandably are telling you the site is not intended as a battle ground for internal strife.
If that is allowed, all the good & generous words & suggestions...you might as well throw
out the window. All is lost in our civilized little world as we know it.

[Martin]

So it is not really a surprise to see that all of the people who are in the power position are all in agreement that life here is good, and they are very happy with how things work, they are all on the good end of the stick, and there is no reason to change a thing.

Mike, things are changing here. This is why I handed the site over to Robertt, because I recognized that I wasn't able to take this site in a new direction. I had gotten comfortable with how things were running, but also realized that the site needed improvement. I think Robertt is making changes, and is doing a great job of it. I don't think that you can say that there is no reason to change things, when in fact, things are changing. There are new mods, new sections, and most importantly in my opinion, a new captain guiding the ship.

For those that are outside the power group, however, they realize that they are the subject, and sometimes the target, of another that holds power over them, and life here is not as good, they are not as happy with how things work, they are all on the other end of the stick. And since things are not going to change for them, they end up leaving.

This is how things work here since 2008 when I started. Over time I "learned" to post less and less, and have seen many others leave this site, because the reality of being outside of the power group sinks in and they would rather go elsewhere.

I don't even know if there is a power group. Robertt makes all the decisions here. My title still says admin, but that is an honourary thing. Arnold and Rhonald are still mods. I don't remember either of them abusing any powers. I moderate a complete section, of which, I am the only one who has a personal direct interest in the Philippines. I tend to agree with JohnB in regards to seeing ghosts. The site is moving forward, and the ghosts of the past are not coming with is.

[David E]

Mike

I think it is clear that you are sill carrying on your personal crusade over your perception as to how badly you were treated in the past.

It seems that you are unable to remove this particular burr from under your saddle !!!

I dont know how healthy it is to hold on to such feelings, but you should know better than me that vengance does NOT belong to you....and did you also forget that your Christian ethic is built on the basis of forgiveness etc, etc. ..."

Can you please put pen to paper here and specifically say what is on your mind, and more importantly, what YOU suggest as a way forward, without simply dragging up past horrors...real or perceived.

I am one of the "older" members of this Forum...both chronologically and intrinsically 

I am certainly sure that I am NOT in the purple circle and I am struggling to remember when any post of mine got canned,,,,and you will recall that I got quite heated in the past over matters Religion...and I had several major spats with a Gentleman called Jim....(who was a mate of Abigbutt and who has just poked his head up over the trench wall again quite recently)...but nothing got canned by Mods as I recall.

I always regarded you as a font of knowlege and it is sad to see this continual sniping at past issues.

I have no idea what specifically has given you such a dose of indigestion, and I guess it is no longer important....unless you want to hang on to it for all time.....what an exercise in futility...I am sure you know that.

[Rhonald]

So it is not really a surprise to see that all of the people who are in the power position are all in agreement that life here is good, and they are very happy with how things work, they are all on the good end of the stick, and there is no reason to change a thing.

Not to BUG you but I (spider) tingled when I kept seeing your fixation with the word "power"...."With great power comes great responsibility."

Since you were not privy to the messages between the Mods - NO - not all was seen by us to be good.

In fact, when I used my power of DELETE on some recent posts, I felt sick in my stomach and questioned my actions. I felt I was put into a spot that I did not feel comfortable with and didn't want to be in - it plainly Sucked.

With the POWER of the post, I checked the member posting list and see 11 people with posts of 1000 or greater. Of these, 5 are or were Mods. Six were not Mods before this month, 7 counting yourself, before you deleted so many of your own posts. Without being a member of the so called POWER group, did not your own actions cause a shifting of the balance?

Earlier this month, before you started your own MODERATING of your very own posts, I saw many good pictures and well written posts about your earlier trips to China. I would like to thank you for those wonderful gifts. But alas, with the POWER of delete, those usefull, & informative posts are now gone.

I remember before becoming a Mod, I got into a tit for tat argument with Willy. At that time, I never felt that I was being moderated. In fact, I ended up feeling so bad about our exchanges that I made a point of visiting Willy to mend fences!  I totally had a great time with Willy and now have fond memories of that trip. You see, I originally read too much into Willy's posts at the time and my emotions clouded my judgment, making me see ghosts.

Please.....let it pass, the Ghosts of Christmas past.

[Rhonald]

I am one of the "older" members of this Forum...both chronologically and intrinsically 

So much so that both you & Willy I refer to as the .... ELDERS

[Willy The Londoner]

Since you were not privy to the messages between the Mods - NO - not all was seen by us to be good.

Even as a new Moderator of sorts I have no idea if there is a Power Area or 'private' area, where mods can/used to be able to discuss things privately, still exists or whether it was/is a figment of the imagination.

If it does exist then I have no idea where!   But as far as I am concerned since the new regime took over I have never been consulted or had a discussion with any mod about any member.  So maybe the days of the Power Group are gone.

Willy

Ronald, is that a subtle way of saying we are 'Old Gits' Ha Ha. (No smilies available for this reply) I prefer SWA, Sage With Age.

[Rhonald]

Even as a new Moderator of sorts I have no idea if there is a Power Area or 'private' area, where mods can/used to be able to discuss things privately, still exists or whether it was/is a figment of the imagination.

If it does exist then I have no idea where!   But as far as I am concerned since the new regime took over I have never been consulted or had a discussion with any mod about any member.  So maybe the days of the Power Group are gone.

Willy

Willy most of the messages I received were from a very private area - but an area assessable to all - this so called secretive are is called the PM - private message.

Earlier on in the fireworks, besides PMs with Mods,  I even exchanged PMs with Shaun - a non mod. Even though his message was not laced with fertile words, as some I had read, I could tell that he had been upset at what had happened. During this time, I received some other heavy laced messages that challenged me to remain calm. This occurred during the same time as dealing (suitable clue as to what kind of problem) with a major problem with my own teenage son.

With my response from yesterday, and noticing how later that night I was even more overly critical to bad drivers on the road, I theorized as to why this recent trend in not getting over it. My three following beliefs:

     1) A person looking to pick a bone, just for the fun of it
     2) A person never developing proper coping methods to distinguish the gray between Black & White
     3) A person having to deal with some other major problem that cause over criticalness in other areas - ie: seeing ghosts

[shaun]

Rhon I read your post and then went back and re-read the exchange between us.  I'm not sure what you meant by fertile words.  There were not any hostile exchanges between you and me.

I am ok with the site and hoping this new direction works well for everyone.  I do have 2 issues with the site but I'll keep them to myself as it could possibly cause more problems and I can live with the two issue for now.

[David E]

I am one of the "older" members of this Forum...both chronologically and intrinsically 

So much so that both you & Willy I refer to as the .... ELDERS

Willy....
I will leave it to you to deal a withering riposte to this young upstart.....possibly you might remind him that WE were busily engaged with life when he was getting his diapers changed......

Now he is poking fun at us while we get OUR diapers changed  !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!