Our Story

[Willy The Londoner]

Not for me to comment on this.

I have never been one to open up and tell anyone everything. Seen too many relationships go down the pan in my long life as couples end up not having anything to say to each other having said it all often the same things many times!!!!

The other thing to remember here is that good jobs are hard to find and even harder to keep. There are no such things as employments laws and bosses have the power to sack anyone at their whim.  If the boss asks her to have lunch then do not read into it anything else - taking someone for a meal is a normal way of saying 'thank you' or 'well done' here or simply to get to know, in a business sense, more about an employee.  Refusal can be taken as a slight against him/her.

Just remember although your lady can speak English well, then even the most accomplished with the English language can struggle at times to put the same meaning on something that you or she may say.

Having progressed quite well with my Chinese language lessons now I can understand just how difficult definitive translating of words can be between Chinese and English and Visa versa.

Willy

 

[maxx]

Willy is right on with this. Your lady refuses the lunch thing. It is like her slapping her boss in the face.She can and probbably would be unemployed in about a week. There is no workers rights in China, No unenployment. Also Sometimes Chinese doe's not translate well into English. My wife still sometimes struggles with it 8 years later.

[Smaug]

Thanks guys for the tips. I'll try to take them to heart, and not open up so much. I can tell that sometimes, she thinks it's excessive.

As for the lunch thing, this was her boss just picking her up on the way to the cafeteria, not "going out to lunch." Same thing?

***

An update: It is proving quite difficult for her to sell her old condo. The government is somehow involved. Her first buyer backed out and lost his deposit. Now her agent is looking for another buyer. Hopefully, it can still be all completed before her fiance visa expires in June. We're still hoping for early May.

Once she has word that the old condo is sold, she will ask the real estate agent to make arrangements to rent out her current condo, resign from her job, (needs a month's advanced notice) and buy tickets to come here.

In the end, it ends up that we're waiting to sell the condo, rather than on either of our governments for visa approval. 

Two more months to wait. Maybe 3 if we're unlucky. Or maybe we'll have to file to extend the visa, if we're VERY unlucky.

As for the lack of unemployment and such... They may not have as much (or any) unemployment support from the government, like we do here, but they have much better labor laws. Ivy tells me that lots of companies, especially factories, ignore those laws though. For example, to fire someone means the company has to pay that person one month's salary for every year they've been there. If they work overtime, they get double pay. If they work on a holiday, they get triple pay. Wow! She told me that most workers in our company there are on a 3 year contract, which they either choose to renew continually or not.

[IrishGuy65]

Smaug, I can tell you that my girl Lisa uses the cafeteria at her job all the time.  Still don't understand why he has to pick her up, though.  If they need to discuss business, they can still do it at the cafeteria getting there separately.   Overall, I would say trust her judgement on this.  Sometimes, from my understanding, there can be face issues or pressures and expectations within the job that we Westerners can never fully understand.  So, my advice.... trust her judgement.

As for selling the condo.  Lisa has just sold hers (took her almost 9 months and she had to accept a lot less than she expected).  She went through the same thing... with buyers coming and going, all the while the realtor gets the lost deposit.  I wonder if they find people they know can't afford it, so they will fail and get the deposit money.

Is it financially necessary for her to sell the condo before moving?  If not, why not let the realtor sell the place and get the move, and wedding, done?  Lisa told me she could have her friend take care of the closing and all the details if she was not there.  She had already made arrangements. Unnecessary now, though.

[Willy The Londoner]

There are several reasons that sales are not completed on properties.
Most conditions are there to prevent a person from overstretching their means and defaulting on a payment.  The deposit is usually around 20,000 rmb.  For first time buyers the next deposit is 30%. If you already have a home then the deposit will 60% or 70% depending on which province.

If as in our case we already had a property then we had to follow this up, ten days later with 60% of the sales price.   If someone is in need of a bank loan, then the application starts from the point when the 20,000rmb is paid. One cannot apply for a bank loan until they have the payment receipt for this initial deposit.

 If a loan is refused then the 20,000 is forfeited. If granted then the larger deposit is required within the ten days mark with the remaining 40% being paid 30 days later either from the bank or in our case direct from our account.

These measures are that banks have to be really strict before agreeing to lend any money that may be needed.  Even though we did not need to borrow money on the new home we just bought there was a lot of official documentation to show they neither of us was in debt and that my wifes income tax was paid up to date which in turn showed that she had a regular income.

Willy

[Smaug]

Wow, everything is so complicated there!

Ivy told me that if they can find a serious buyer within the next couple weeks, then she can have everything done by the end of April. After reading these past few posts, I'm skeptical!

Ivy's situation is a little complicated because her first condo was under her ex's name. She had him sign something that said she had control over it when they divorced. But now, she had to jump through some hoops to get everything squared away. Rather than just have the title changed over to her name, she is trying to sell the house in his name, get the money into a new account that SHE opened under HIS name (by borrowing his national ID card) then immediately transfer the money to her account.  She said this is quicker and easier than transferring the title to her name, and it also avoids a lot of taxes that she would have to pay (she said 50%!?) if she owned a 2nd condo herself.

Well anyway, I'm keeping my fingers cross it will be squared away by the end of April, so she can move here in the beginning of May.

I was prepared to wait months for the government(s) for the visa. But that part actually went pretty smoothly and quickly. Now, it is the real estate stuff that is causing the big delays. One never knows, does one?

It has been about a year and a half now, since we met, and a year since we started planning our life together.

[2hip]

Wow, you were not kidding when you said how complex it is.  I don't have any experience with the Chinese property things.  But i was married to a woman form Moscow who died of breast cancer over 10 years ago.  It is unbelievable how complex things can get over there.  A husband and wife who own an apartment together have to have what is called a propiscus (phonetically spelled).  It basically is a legal document that allows you to live in a city and the rights you have to that apartment.  Once you are divorced or even separated...you both still have the right to occupy that apartment until you die.  Even if she remarried and her new husband is living there.  If you want to be a jerk about it...you can still live there and you have the full support of the law.  That just blows me away.  Many women in Russia are divorced and still living with their ex-husbands.  If you don't have the money to buy the other one out...you are stuck with the laws.

Please do not interpret what i am about to say as negative criticism.  It is not the thought i want to convey here.  What is being proposed by her is to evade taxes by, what seems to me, a shady deal.  I am not Chinese and neither are you.  I am sure she is an honest woman trying to do the best she can with a difficult situation.  Here is what i would do....and maybe you already are way further into this thought than i am....1.  I would ask her if this is a legal thing that she can do ( because it sounds like it is tax evasion)?  2. I would ask if her ex-husband is fully aware of what she is proposing ( because using his name to sell the property and taking the proceeds out of escrow and directly into her accounts "immediately" raises the hairs on the back of my neck)?
3.  If the chinese government finds out about this "tax evasion" mechanism she is proposing what are the legal ramifications of this evasion?  4.  Who will be ultimately responsible for these lost taxes....her or her ex-husband if they catch it?  5.  What are the legal ramifications for her travel out of China and into China if they catch wind of this? 

My deceased Father was a Rotarian and they have a creed that i wish all people who walk this planet adhered to.  It is not a religious statement.  But I copied and pasted it.

1. Is it the truth?

2. Is it fair to all concerned?

3. Will it build goodwill and better friendships?

4. Will it be beneficial to all concerned?

You have gone through long stretches of time without your woman and are weary of the loneliness.  I am sure she just wants to start her new life with you.  Just because we can do something...doesn't mean we should.  It truly sucks what our governments put us through to be together.  Sometimes things can come back to you years later and bite you on the "arse"...With tax evasion ...no matter what country you are from...it is a Federal crime and punishable by owed taxes, fines,  and interest and possibly ( actually LIKELY....PRISON)...Two famous cases in America recently are Wesley Snipes and Willy Nelson...both served time over back taxes (read tax evasion).  What would happen if three years from now she goes home for a visit and is arrested upon entry?  Can you imagine the financial carnage that would ensue?  Can you imagine the emotional roller coast ride that would be?

China is getting their act together and are more efficient now than they were 5 years ago.  They have so many people retiring in the next 5 years and do not have enough revenue to fund it.  They are starving for tax dollars and are learning the western ways of how to chase the tax revenues.  I would hate for black cloud to enter your marriage over a decision that wasn't thought out well.  For example, what if she gets away with this and her ex is liable for the taxes that were absconded with?  What message is the daughter picking up if her father is imprisoned or severely damaged by her actions?  There are so many tangents to this issue, wouldn't you agree?

None of these words are meant to imply dishonesty or poor character.  Maybe what she is doing is perfectly legal in chinese real estate.  But the wording "to avoid taxes" is pretty clear in my mind as to the intent.  Please consider trying to find an honest route (if it was understood correctly by me)...as being a better route.  To hell with the money.  Nothing more important than my reputation and health.  I will finish off with an old Sanskrit verse that i used to teach my boyscouts..."The path of least resistance leads to crooked rivers and crooked men."  It will also be a statement to your wife that you are a straight arrow and can walk the path of life with your head unbowed. 

I am just concerned that the end result, togetherness, is your goal...but it doesn't mean that legal jeopardy is justified to obtain it.  A simple solution is wait for the markets to improve.  Rent the apartments both out and sell them when she is able.  Simple is always better than complex...

[Smaug]

2hip: I agree with you, regarding the honesty and integrity. But things work differently in China. There, it is not such a terrible thing to lie. To omit some part of the story that we would consider a "lie by omission" is commonplace there. They never share any detail that is not absolutely necessary to share, except with the very closest of friends.

On that topic, she told me: "Trust me on this; this is my country and I know how it works, OK?"  I reply with some concern sometimes, but she is so confident and it hurts her if I don't trust her on it.

She talked to her ex-husband and asked if he wanted to buy their old condo back from her, and a steep discount; that would make all the paperwork very easy. He said no, he just invested in a place in Shanghai, and can't afford it now, but she's still holding out hope.

Conversely, sometimes I have to explain to her that things work differently here, and she just has to accept it. She is quicker to adapt to these things than I am. It seems to me that Chinese, in general, adapter quicker than westerners to cultural changes.

*********

The latest on the condo is that she told her realtor she has to leave by May 10th, so if it cannot be all completed before then, please rent it again. She is also lining up one of her friends to take care of selling it in her absence, although I can tell it really bothers her to do so.

Today, she "applied to resign." Apparently, it requires 1 month's notice there. Last week, she bought her plane tickets. She and her son will come on May 9th, no matter what happens with the condos. I had to really push her for that. I actually shared Willy's and IrishGuy's stories with her, which I think brought her around a little.

The Big Day is now less than 6 weeks away. I'm pretty amped-up.

Thanks for all your advice so far. 

PS - A colleague of ours just returned to Chicago from Guangzhou and brought a couple bags full of slippers and photo albums. Lots of baby pictures of LiFu, with his ding-dong hanging out of those crotchless toddler pants they have there. There will be PLENTY of ammo to embarass him in front of his girlfriend in a few years, when he gets snotty with us. 

[Smaug]

The Big Day is less than 4 weeks away now. I wish I had a time machine.

[maxx]

Happy to hear it. Best wishes for along and happy life together.

[Smaug]

They're here now, for over a week. They arrived last Friday.

We're slowly getting through the little issues; nothing even worth mentioning.

We got our marriage license on Sunday. We're getting married Thursday. LiFu (her son) started his first day of school. The kids gave him a warm welcome. (probably at the direction of the teacher and principal) There are two other kids who speak Mandarin in the school, but not in his class. (that's probably a good thing, so he can't lean on them)

After we're married, I'll get them on my health, dental, and life insurance, and that'll be a big load off my back, as I'm worried about what'll happen if this boy (he's pretty clumsy) falls off his bike and breaks his arm; it'll cost $30k to patch that up, and really put a damper on our plan to buy a house in the next couple years...

In short, everything is going great, thanks for all your well wishes!

[Smaug]

Woo, 3 months since my last update? I'm a bad boy.

Things are slowly settling down, as much as they can with two kids. (my daughter's 2-1/2 and LiFu's 10)

LiFu just started school a few weeks ago. Although he thought he was way ahead of most American kids in math, it turns out it is not that easy. He's got a Chromebook (Samsung-branded netbook, designed to work well with Google's "free" software.) that he's doing a lot of his homework on. After going through some math with him on it today, I have to admit that it is pretty great. No better than the pencil & paper I learned with, but probably more efficient, and with the instant, one-on-one feedback that is so important.

Right, onto our relationship. We still fight from time to time. QunFang is not always that patient, just as I'm not always that good at taking her clues. We've been married now for about 3-1/2 months. She got her work permit and travel document last week. The next day she applied for a job at my company. (also her old company) Still waiting to hear back on that; the middle management seemed like they really wanted to keep her. Yesterday, we went and applied for Social Security Numbers for her and LiFu. That seemed pretty straightforward; they said we should get their cards/numbers in the mail in a week or so. After that, she'll go apply for a learner's driving permit. (she was licensed in China, so I have high hopes she'll learn quickly without cracking up our car) We'll drive together in parking lots for a while, then she'll take her test, get her license, and she'll be open to work anywhere then.

As for our living situation, we're still in this little apartment. 850 sq. ft. (79 sq. meters) Most of the time, it is just cozy, rather than cramped. When we've got my daughter for visitation, it starts to feel a little tight. Now, one of her old colleagues from Hong Kong is visiting, sleeping on the couch for a few days. He's on vacation. His first stop was in New York for a cousin's wedding. Now here to visit us and also stop in the local branch office. Then, onto San Jose, California Saturday morning to wrap up the vacation. So, 4-5 of us living in a 2 bedroom apartment.  We're just like the Mexican families we used to laugh at, growing up! Ah well, at least we have the same great family values too, hehehe.

If she gets a job at my company (her old company) we won't NEED for her to be driving right away, as it is only 2.5 miles from our apartment; one of the main reasons I got this small apartment to begin with.

So, the next steps are:

- Get QunFang & LiFu's Social Security Nos.
- Get QunFang working
- Get QunFang driving
- Keep LiFu under control
- Be a good father for my daughter, whom I don't see as often as I'd like, even if it is no less than twice a week.
- Keep out of debt, even with one salary and 4 mouths to feed (we spent $800 on groceries one month...)
- Keep QunFang emotionally stable; she's not the stay-home Mom kind of person, but she's coping well enough, so far.

In other news, QunFang wants to try for another baby. I don't really WANT another baby, but I wouldn't be heartbroken if we had another one either. She's 40, so it's really getting late for her. They say her chances of getting pregnant naturally are about 25% now, and it seems to drop exponentially with each passing month. She REALLY wants another, but cannot answer why. I'm not sure there IS an answer. I'm just worried about paying for college, and being Old Parents.

We just has physicals; she's got to make an appointment with the OB/gyne, which she's not that comfortable with. We've got vision appointments. LiFu has already had his pre school physical and eye exam. He's got a lazy eye that will need some work. I haven't had my sight checked for many years. I think I may be getting near-sighted from my desk/computer job. Previously, I was 20/20. QunFang's vision is not that great, but she refuses to wear glasses, except at work.

Constanze has just started potty training. She's so proud of herself that she can go pee-pee on the potty. Working on poo-poo now. She's getting pretty good on the tricycle. Soon, she'll be too big for the bike seat she loves so much on the back of my bicycle. Either 40 or 45 lbs (about 20 kg) is the limit, and she's GOT to be pretty close to that by now. Then it'll be time for her own (real) bike.

In other news, one nice lady I met on ChinaDaily forum from Inner Mongolia met a Canadian guy. She's divorced with a child, and her parents are raising him during the week. She sees him only on weekends. Sad! He's mid-divorce with two kids. I think it might be messy. It reminded me of one story I read here about a Canadian guy have a HELL of a time brining his wife back to Canada. If someone can remind me who that is/was, please do. I want to provide this nice lady with a link of first-person advice. I seem to remember that the Canadian government was not convinced that she wasn't seeing their citizen as a mealticket...

As I type this, QunFang is sleeping next to me, with her even breathing. She had no nap today, and was VERY cranky this evening, so I'm glad to hear her sleeping so soundly.

Life is good.

Thanks again for your support, Fellas. I'm trying to pay it forward.

[kenny]

Good to read that everything is going well, good luck to you both.

I think you may be refering to Neil, havent heard from him in a while. I hope things have gotten better for him.

[JustJim]

Neil is the one that I remember also.


So let me ask you smaug...

why did you wait 3 months to apply for her learner's permit?  Just life or is there some legal reason...?

I only ask because I will want Mei to apply for her's as soon as she can and I was just wondering if there is a waiting period...

Glad to hear that you are adjusting.  It's a whole different thing to have your gal with you.