China Romance
General Discussion and Useful Links => Ask An Experienced Member => Topic started by: phil on September 17, 2009, 05:59:29 pm
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Hi Guys...
Well after much consideration I have started communications with a very traditional woman from what she calls "a literary family". She is my age (Forty Seven) from Guangzhou and was a teacher of Chinese and History for many years but now is in school administration. She's divorced and has a 11yr daughter away at school for art. sounds like she's been alone for 5-6 years. Her Ex "Stayed outside all the time" I guess loosely translated that would mean he ran around on her and liked to party.
She seems smart, cultured, and very insightful. Almost from the start she has referenced directly what I discussed in the previous EMF's and carried along responding to what I've written while inserting aspects of her life she wants made clear.
This is an example of what I've received from her: ...you are right, so many people live their lives looking back in time, content in the past and they miss out on the beauty of today. Many people live their lives looking at tomorrow worried about what they need and worry for the day that has not come. It really will waste us a lot of time. To be honest, I have even been in this kind of life, I always regretted the wrong I have done and worried about tomorrow. I did waste a lot of my time. But now, I am different, my motto now is: Whatever happens, just make relax and make a great smile. Life is not a problem to be solved but a gift to be enjoyed. Make every day my best day. I will not think of the past and worry for tomorrow, I just want to be happy today and cherish today. Time flies and we can not waste our time. : )
I had been getting all these young women admirer letters (agency churning?) and had been also looking at the younger womens profiles...I can't deny the fact that I'm attracted to these 25-30 yr old beauties. I guess reality finally set in and I decided to go for something that had an actual chance of working. It was partially from something that Vince said about the "Young Ones" in another thread "It would last about week"....not to mention the fact that I look something like a fat Jack Nicholson after a rough night. It's amazing what the mind can make us believe.
Anyway, I guess I'm searching for some feedback here on the general idea of selecting of a woman who's actually my age, divorced, has a child, and doesn't work at a mall.
Thanks
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I think you have already answered your own question. The only reason I would ever consider having a younger woman is if I still wished to have another child. So I could see you searching for a woman as young as mid thirties.
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Phil
It's an ever topical issue you have here...that trade off between endless sex (maybe) with a young "hottie" and quality mental (and physical) interaction with a mature Woman who has had some experience in life.
When we get past the ego-trip that catching a 25 years old brings...what then. Can her level of experience and "worldliness" be enough to keep you interested over the long haul.?
I have two friends in my life here who married very young Foreign Brides, and they both are 50+. and their wives are in their late 20's
Both now have "new" children with their wives and their life has dramatically changed...mostly NOT for the better.
In the cold hard light of reality, I would prefer to be with someone who I could have a decent conversation with and who could be a real partner, as well as a lover :)
However...I dont think there is a right and a wrong here...but there are some awful pitfalls caused by discrepant ages. But some men do it well and live happily ever after.
I guess if you fall in love, its all academic questions anyway.
My 2 cents worth...go for the mature Lady.
DavidE
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Ditto:icon_biggrin:
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Both now have "new" children with their wives and their life has dramatically changed...mostly NOT for the better.
David, would you care to develop? Just curious, I've only known one couple with a +25 year age difference, she was not happy but I think he was, not my cup of tea ...
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Both now have "new" children with their wives and their life has dramatically changed...mostly NOT for the better.
David, would you care to develop? Just curious, I've only known one couple with a +25 year age difference, she was not happy but I think he was, not my cup of tea ...
These two guys, one works for me, the other is a client of mine, married young "supermodels" from Russia.
Both guys are in their 50's , both wives are late 20's. Both wives are drop dead gorgeous...believe me, I have both couples round to my place for dinner many times, and we socialise in other stuff too. Always these guys were the envy of every male in the place...and all the Aus Women were spitting ink !!!! (cradle snatcher syndrome)
The downside.....both guys were cajoled into buying houses by their brides that were too big, too flashy...and too Expensive....now have huge mortgages at 55 years old !!
Both guys bought their "brides" flash cars and basically had to throw money at them to keep marital peace (and sex) going.
Both guys decided that a baby would slow down the attrition , so to speak, and give their women something to do...Yeah right !!!!
Both guys talk to me in depth about their feelings of hopelessness..they dont want to talk endlessly about pop-stars, supermodels, new clothes and such.
They cant get on with life because their wives are too dependent and demanding....hot sex is now a distant memory.
Divorce is not an option because our Laws would award a wife with a young child 80% of the Man's assets ...cop that at 55 years old !!!
Ok, these are 2 examples I know about in-depth and they are Russians anyway...so I am not suggesting here that it will always be bad ..Russian, Chinese, Eskimo etc etc. But I do believe that there is a high failure rate for age discrepant marriages.
But by the same token, if it works for some Men, it could be wonderful.
DavidE
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do your self a favor, stay within a 10 year age differance, jmo.
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Phil,
I have children that are pushing 35. I just can not wrap my head around getting into a serious relationship with someone the age of my children. I also agree with DavidE. At the end of the day, what do you and the lady have in common. The lady I am going to see in just over 6 weeks, is the same age as myself. What we can talk about is how life has developed for her and for me and compare and contrast the way we experienced things. For instance Nixon's visit to China. Now I know many of you were not even born when this happened, but that visit has led to us here on this forum, at having a chance to marry a Chinese Lady. Most of all I would say, Forget about age, and look for common interest. Common goals. and most of all like JimB has always said. "He and Mrs. Burk just fit together". That says it all!! Age is just a number.
buzz
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Anyway, I guess I'm searching for some feedback here on the general idea of selecting of a woman who's actually my age, divorced, has a child, and doesn't work at a mall.
That's my wife in a nutshell. In fact it's how i set my search criteria, however she wrote me first. Hard to say if it's right or wrong for you but you gotta go with your instincts. I however, do like the closeness of age, divorce (she knows what can go wrong in a relationship), has a child(knows what it means to raise a family and the sacrifices that come with it), and doesnt work in a mall (Does a grocery store count?). hehe.
Good Luck Phil.
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She's mature and has got some substance and being a Chinese and History teacher could hopefully share quite a bit about her culture. She is moving very slowly in this...simple disclosures and discoveries for the time being it seems. Thats a good sign to me. I disclosed that I would have to work to live over there and she actually was upbeat about that and supported the idea.
I sent her a picture from when I was working in California a few years ago...it is picture me with a backdrop of the Golden Gate Bridge shrouded in fog...she wrote "That is a great and strong bridge where is it from?".
They really are a world away :)
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Glad to see that some of us are thinking with the head on our shoulders and not with our other head!! ...lol!!
I think many of us have come to realise that, marrying a lady, way outside our age group, has a far greater chance of failing later on, than that of a lady nearer to our own age.
We really do need to have things in common, in order for us to communicate on a day to day basis. When conversations start to wain, we tend to know something is wrong. I think what DavidE wrote about his two friends is pretty typical, and isn't it funny how this idea of having babies/children is still thought of, as bringing two people closer together!! When in reality, it is the one thing that can bring things to a head faster than any other. It certainly brings more pressure to a failing or stagnant marriage!! ....It doesn't work now, and it never has done.....
Also as DavidE said, When things do start falling away from you, and your at an age where literary starting again isn't an option you want to even think about.... what do you do??
No, you just have to be far better off all round, finding a future wife within your relative age group, where you can both grow old happily, contentedly, and gracefully together!!
Leave these younger ladies to the young bucks that have more time and more inclination to deal with them, we just don't have that time!! ...hahaha!! When you really think about it, it's not really fair on the ladies either is it, they could very well become just carers to us, as we get older, and not what they signed up for, as being wife's.....
David....
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Thank you David5o, this should put things in the light it should be but, you and I know that there will be some that will go after the younger ones because they want the eye candy but don't think of down the road.
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Hey mate...I have eye candy...and she is 42....:angel:
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Hehehe, yeah but you are only 10 years older, like Zhou and I, so that makes them eye candy with smarts and things in common with us, you old fart :icon_cheesygrin:
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As usual :icon_cheesygrin: can I put the other perspective about age......
I have had a lengthy and very fine series of EMF's with a Lady in my own age group. I was so impressed with the quantity and quality of her words and letters. For one brief moment I thought that at last I had hit the jackpot !!!!!
But.....and there is always a But....she was the Senior Plastic Surgeon at a Chinese Hospital. She specialises in severe burn cases and does so much good work putting terribly deformed people into better shape so they can live a more normal quality of life...she does not do boob jobs or cosmetic surgery for glamour purposes. Within one or two years she could expect to be promoted to control the Plastic Surgery efforts of 5 Hospitals !!
Thus she provides a vital and important service within her local community. She goes to different training and knowlege sharing courses all over the World.
If, repeat if she were to come to Aus as my wife, she would be forced to repeat ALL her Medical training...8 years .....as well as learn fluent English (including complex medical terms) before she could commence her re-training.
She says that she would be prepared to give up her career and become a simple housewife for the right Man.
Question is, how could I take such a woman from her local community, how could I deprive such a woman from a worthy career and how long could she last as a houswife before boredom/resentment set in ?
Despite her statement that she would be prepared to do it for "love"...I would be quite sure that over time it would be a problem.
So...even ladies of the right age group, can have other "issues" that get in the way of romance.
DavidE
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OUCH....ROFLMAO
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You guys should all start some sort of online forum to help men understand what's involved with choosing a suitable Chinese wife! :)
The wisdom of the Brotherhood is Strong!
You gotta love this place!
:):):)
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I agree with what most have said. When you enter into a marriage you have to look beyond some preferences. I'm 54 and 25 year olds really look good to me but their goals and mine differ quite a bit. When I am 74 and she is 45 do I really think she will be wanting to deal with my issues of living? Sure I would like to be married to a goddess but do I really want to deal with goddess issues? She does need to be appealing to my eye and as long as she appeals to me who cares what another man thinks. If my ex thinks she is drop dead gorgeous and looks better than her then all the more good but really I could care less.
Also, you need to share most all of the same values and morals. Decide now before you get knee deep in a relationship which values she must absolutely have, which ones can be somewhat debatable, ones that she ca have for herself and ones you can have for yourself but will not impose on each other and ones that are deal killers. Example: Someone who is a Christian may only want to look at and marry Christian women while I am OK if she starts out not being a Christian because I think it would be special to us if I was the person who lived the lifestyle that led her to become a Christian. Both of us in this example have nearly the same goal but they differ a little.
Then comes shared interest. If she is interested in me then that makes two of us. Hehe. No, really, to me there is nothing worse than when your wife does not share any interests you do and the other way around. I need to be interested in the things that interests her too. I had to learn this one the hard way, otherwise I would more than likely still be married. If you like owning a business rather than working for an established company then you had better marry a person that agrees with this. I didn't marry a person like that and owning a business with her around has been a living hell. My girl now owns a business and we are talking about starting one together. I just found out that she likes the idea this morning. YIPEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!!!! Sharing common goals and interests make life a lot easier.
Then there is the dynamic of my children. My oldest is 24. How would she feel about a step mother one year older than her. Well she has already spoke on that issue. In fact all three children have. They do not want to see me with anyone under 40. I laughed at them but I realized I want a good relationship with them so I needed to listen to what they were saying.
The idea is to have as many positive things working together as possible for the success of your future marriage.
Shaun
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you need to share most all of the same values and morals. Decide now before you get knee deep in a relationship which values she must absolutely have, which ones can be somewhat debatable, ones that she can have for herself and ones you can have for yourself but will not impose on each other and ones that are deal killers.
I need to be interested in the things that interests her too. I had to learn this one the hard way, otherwise I would more than likely still be married. If you like owning a business rather than working for an established company then you had better marry a person that agrees with this. I didn't marry a person like that and owning a business with her around has been a living hell.
I wanted to put my 2 cents in here, for those that don't understand the importance of this? Some think it doesn't matter? Take it from one that has been there done that a few times, it counts. Things in common is very important. Even the small things.
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When I was in the British embassy last week on the wall was a list of marriage declarations waiting out there 21 days before approval. I noticed one that had the groom at 61 and the bride at 22. I thought is this China or Thailand. I pointed this out to my wife and she just looked at me and said this marriage will fail, what common ground do they have.
When I started looking ,I wanted someone about my own age [50] who had a bit of experience in life and who I could grow old with.Older women here look gorgeous. Not some ego trip with a girl half my age. Yes it's nice looking at the girls as they go by but as W.C Fields once said Girls are like elephants, I love looking at them but I would not like to own one.
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On what's referred to as the women scale? I've dated low to high. The not so good looking to jaw dropping. So looks wasn't the issue (for china). I didn't contact woman because she was good looking. Rather things in common. Having a trophy is a pain in the ass. To much worry all the time. It's not my way of living. When the looks fade what have to got?
Another thing I didn't set out for is someone way younger. I'm no fool. I couldn't have that doubt hanging over my head the rest of my life. Besides when talking or "Hanging" with the much younger crowd I see the differences. They're from a different world. They may know the different eras but if you haven't lived it you really don't. Mostly what you will find is a fascination. Maybe the most common thing you have? When you both grow tired of it? There's nothing left.
If it takes making a list of things you want? do it that way. But choose wisely.
I know there are some that this is going in one ear and out the other? (so to speak) But I did this too. NOW I realize I should have listened.
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Vince,
I agree with everything you have said here, ...and your right, all that's been said in this thread to date is going to be totally ignored by some. Only after they are married, have spent a year waiting for an visa, and maybe another year living together, will they then realise, that what they had read two years ago should have been listened too....
Sad, ...but i think very true!!
David...
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If you want long lasting happiness I think you can't go wrong choosing a good woman that is closer to your age. You will have similar life experiences and goals for one thing. Of course there might be the rare gem of a younger woman who is very mature for her age but I think a little age and life experience makes for a relationship that will have lasting power... Just my 2 cents!:icon_cheesygrin:
Big Dave
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I think I have gotten pretty lucky myself. I am 53 and my Libo is 42 and I think of her as an old soul when we write and talk she seems every bit as old as I am.
I have written many of these women in the past and the young ones seem like well to much fun, and it's not a matter of can I keep up but do I even want to anymore. Nothing wrong with slowing down and stop to smell the roses now and then. In my 53 yrs I have experienced not as much as a few but more than most and think I am going to take this lady that has been pretty sheltered in china bring her here and go back and do the things I enjoyed most again but this time with her.
Age really is not most important but if you want someone 20+ years younger not just any girl will do you have just added a lot of time to your search and reduced your chances of success in a marraige. And to be honest there are a lot of these gals in their 40s and 50s that still look pretty damn good ..
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I have had a lengthy and very fine series of EMF's with a Lady in my own age group. I was so impressed with the quantity and quality of her words and letters. For one brief moment I thought that at last I had hit the jackpot !!!!!
But.....and there is always a But....she was the Senior Plastic Surgeon at a Chinese Hospital. She specialises in severe burn cases and does so much good work putting terribly deformed people into better shape so they can live a more normal quality of life...she does not do boob jobs or cosmetic surgery for glamour purposes. Within one or two years she could expect to be promoted to control the Plastic Surgery efforts of 5 Hospitals !!
Thus she provides a vital and important service within her local community. She goes to different training and knowlege sharing courses all over the World.
If, repeat if she were to come to Aus as my wife, she would be forced to repeat ALL her Medical training...8 years .....as well as learn fluent English (including complex medical terms) before she could commence her re-training.
She says that she would be prepared to give up her career and become a simple housewife for the right Man.
David
If my relationship with my good woman works out, that's exactly the situation I am in. She is the head of a paediatrics unit at a hospital down here in Zhuhai.
I have given the matter a considerable amount of thought.
When I have thought about the relationship not working out, the thought of avoiding the ethical issues regarding having her leave China and living here in Australia has provided me with a considerable amount of consolation.
I too worry that what brings me personal pleasure, will come at a cost to the many people who benefit from her work.
I worry too that she will feel lost in Australia. Here in China she is really somebody: confident, successful, loved, admired and as far as I can tell having a good life.
What I offer seems so inadequate by comparison.
However it is worth keeping in mind that she is a woman - she has worked for twenty years here and she is entitled to family and marital happiness as much as anyone else does.
She does exactly what she wants. She is tough minded when she needs to be. If she has work to attend to, then there is no question about what comes first. If she decides that living here with me in Australia is what she wishes to do, then that's what she will do.
I would be very happy if that is what she decides to do.
However if it was up to me to decide for us both, then I think it would be better for her to stay where she is, and for me to eventually move to China.
It is sort of embarrassing revealing that I have thought this far ahead in the relationship. She might decide this week that we have no future, but whatever happens, this is what I think would have been the best solution to the matter.
I have been thinking that maybe if it works out, maybe I could move over there as soon as it is possible for me to retire (in 11 years, at 55). If I worked hard at it, I could learn Mandarin reasonably well in that period of time. At the same time I could work towards obtaining skills and experience in my work that would be useful here in China. I might not earn as much as I do here, but that's not everything.
In the interim, I would visit her as much as I can, using up my long service leave and rec leave. It would be the hard road to a relationship, but I think sometimes it is worthwhile following your star.
I am someone who can easily fill my free time up. I love reading history and literature, practicing the piano, studying Chinese, working out at the gym, my work as a manager in the public service. I have good friends and a wonderful family.
Waiting such a long time would be hard, but I think if you can do it for a year, you can do it for ten. I've managed it for a year and I think I could continue on like this indefinitely. I have no doubt about her. She is not a perfect woman, of course, but if I have learned anything about her, I have learned that she is faithful and true.
If you have any thoughts on the matter, if you work it out, it would be really good to hear them.
Take care
Danny
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If my relationship with my good woman works out, that's exactly the situation I am in. She is the head of a paediatrics unit at a hospital down here in Zhuhai.
I have given the matter a considerable amount of thought.
Danny
Danny
Yes, I know exactly where you are coming from, how amazing that us two Aussies are struggling with the same moral dilemma. Because that is how I see it.....a moral dilemma. It is not about who loves who or True love conquers all.
I can be totally selfish and say I want this woman in my life and what she gives up for that is her choice, a choice she can make willingly without any pressure from me.
If there was any way I could beg, borrow, steal, wangle, conspire...or bribe !!! to help her into some level of continuation of her career, I would. But it is not possible. Medical stuff is a very closed book here and the rules are rigid and rigidly enforced....as you may well know.
I could take a dep breath and ignore the whole moral question...but I cant do that. I donrt know that after 1, 2, 10 or some number of years she would get depressed or hurt that she could not continue such meanigful work in a place where she was highly skilled, well respected, well paid and had wonderful opportunities for advancement.
Maybe , like you, I am not "arrogant" enough to believe that I can be a worthy substitute for all that !!!
Danny, I think under the circumstances it is very responsible that we both think ahead about it...it seems so important to me...and to you.
I cringe about the thought of leaving Aus and living permanently in China...I know I know it is selfish of me to expect her to come here, if I am not prepared to do the same...but thats how it is for me...I have thought about it long and hard and thats my own conclusion....may not be the same for everybody, including yourself Danny.
I so want to believe all she says about this issue and believe all her words and her confidence that her "Beloved" is what she most wants in life....But !!!!!!...its tough to go there as a conclusion for me.
Honestly, I feel stuck between the proverbial rock and a hard place...dammed if I do, dammed if I dont. For probably the first time in my life I am paralysed with indecision....
I hope some Bros have some good advice for both of us :icon_cheesygrin::icon_cheesygrin:
Good Luck cobber
DavidE
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Hey guys, I have the feeling that you might be over thinking the situation. I do not think that anyone put a gun to your ladies head and had them sign up for a marriage service that advertises to foreign men. These are very smart ladies; they knew what they were doing, trust that with your understanding and help, things will work out.
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I think Buzz has got it right.Theese women knew what they were doing When they signed up.They knew that there was a big chance that they would go abroad.
Try not to over think this.Talk to your ladies about it see what they think.
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Yeah, my thoughts are: so you don't want to be the one that turns a doctor into a housewife...someone else will then, it's not like she's joking about looking for a foreign husband.