China Romance
General Discussion and Useful Links => The Campfire => Topic started by: brett on October 11, 2009, 06:41:57 am
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Hi guys,
I thought I'd start a thread for my trip to Hubei Province, October 2009. My flight leaves this evening from Heathrow. I fly to Beijing, then get a connecting flight to Wuhan. As you know I had a nightmare organising my travel plans, so I decided to fly to the nearest place to her home town that Expedia knew about. That place is Wuhan. It looks a good place to set up base camp. It also allows me time to rest before I meet her. And I will have a couple of days with my lady before we meet her parents, friends and relatives (her family is massive!).
I've only know my lady for a couple of months, but I always go on vacation in October, so it seemed a good idea to go and meet her. These ladies have to deal with a lot of timewasters, so if you think you have found the one, it's best to go to China as soon as you can. By EMF #4 I knew I had found my special somebody :angel:. We have talked extensively on MSN, so we have been able to accelerate our relationship more than a lot of guys have been able to. I stopped talking to other ladies a long time ago. I still like browsing the photos, but I've not seen anyone else I'm interested in.
Our online personas get on incredibly well and we've had some 50+ chats on MSN. I've made her laugh, made her cry. I now have 74 photos of my lady. Wow, on national day she even dressed up and did a special photo shoot for me! Whether there's a spark in real life, I am not sure if it is possible to tell. I'm hopeful there will be. She is a smart girl and extremely attractive. Thanks to a diet of fruit and dance classes, she is one of the slimmest girls on chnlove, and even by Chinese standards her figure is lovely.
I know that it is dangerous to fall in love with someone you've not yet met. If it doesn't work out, then at least I'll have had the opportunity to go to China. If I had more cash I'd give up my job and become a travel photographer. Wuhan is way off the normal Western tourist tour of China, so I'm sure I will get some fantastic photos. Originally I was looking for a Japanese wife, but I now think that China is the better option. At least on this trip I will be able to confirm that for certain.
I'm taking my new Samsung notebook, so hotel wireless access permitted, I'll keep this site updated!
Incidentally this is my 4th trip to Asia - I did Hong Kong in 2006, Tokyo in 2007, and Tokyo in 2008 again (it's way too big to cover in a single two week trip!). I'm still terrible at using chopsticks but I don't mind squat toilets now and I drink loads of green tea and miso soup :icon_cheesygrin:.
Wish me luck!
88,
Brett :fi_lone_ranger:
P.S. I am not taking my suit - the forecast for Wuhan is hot hot hot!!! :s
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Hi Brett,
Ming Zhi and myself wish you the best of luck on your travels. We hope it works out for both off you.:icon_biggrin:
I am intrigued when you said she " Wow, on national day she even dressed up and did a special photo shoot for me! " Err what did she dress up as!:angel:
Oh,Ming Zhi wanted to know if you really did take tea to China
Anyway all the best my friend,
We are waiting for updates already:icon_cheesygrin:
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Brett
You're a lucky boy. From what you say, there's every chance that it's going to work out. Having had a pile of webcam chats gives you a good start. It's not the same as spending time with her, but it's a damn sight better than just relying on emf mails.
Some observations:
1. Getting from one bit of Wuhan to another is hard work (not enough taxis and the traffic congestion is hopeless) so make sure your hotel is somewhere near where she lives.
2. I was in Wuhan for a few days, a couple of weeks ago. It was damn hot. I was sweating like a pig the whole time and so if you stand in a puddle when you're there there's a good chance that I made a contribution to it *laughs* Don't even think of bringing jeans or anything like that. The lighter the material the better.
3. If you negotiate a taxi trip to the airport check that they're going to take you direct, ie via the freeway. The one my woman arranged ended up being up and down alleys, all to avoid a couple of dollars in freeway toll. I was real unhappy by the time I got to the airport.
4. There are two airport terminals. A small one that takes the flights to Hong Kong, and the big one that takes all the other flights. Make sure you don't end up at the wrong one, like I did.
Good luck!
Danny
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Brett,
Best of luck to you. You will now see for yourself China, is Nothing like Japan, they are two totally different worlds, and associating between them can get you into all sorts of problems...
There is one sort of common thread between them, ...the men treat there women exactly the same... like shit, or as a possession rather than as a wife as in western countries... I guess you can include Korea in that mix too....
Thank god you left that bloody suit at home, ....where it belongs ...lol!! Now see how many suits you can see while your there, probably can count them on one hand, and those wearing them will be Japanese or Westerners on business for the first time.....
Enjoy your trip Brett, hope everything goes well for you...
David....
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Thanks guys!
Yes I know Wuhan will be hot and mysterious. I have no idea how I will get around, I have a crappy map and the subway is under construction. There only appear to be a couple of river crossings and the place is absolutely massive.
Incidentally my lady doesn't live in Wuhan, but she went to college there so she knows it very well.
From my time in Hong Kong, Japan and now China I will be able to write a book about the similarities and differences. I spent a fortnight in Hong Kong and went absolutely everywhere, so I kind of know what to expect. Hell, I went on a crazy 2 hour bus journey to the fishing village of Tai O only to find out that the bus queue back was absolutely immense! I also remember that the further towards the border with mainland China I got the stranger things I began to see in the food markets. I still don't know what kind of meal you can make with a frog, a turtle and a fish swim bladder :icon_cheesygrin:.
BTW for national day my lady wore a new T shirt, a nice miniskirt and black thigh highs. As if that wasn't good enough she got the pictures taken in some beautiful gorge off the Yangtze :icon_cheesygrin:.
And yes I am taking my lady's mother some green tea. I know Hubei Province is famous for green tea but mine comes in a posh tin and it's from India. I'm also (customs officials permitting :icon_cool:) taking them a few European foods, mainly so I can have something to talk about!
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We all look forward to your trip going well. The Brotherhood needs some good news to make up for last week so we are relying on you to provide.
We hop that things work out OK but if by any chance it does not then tell her not to worry as I will be going to Wuhan later this year!!!!!:icon_cheesygrin::icon_cheesygrin::icon_cheesygrin:
Willy
PS I fly back to China on Tuesday morning
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those wearing them will be Japanese or Westerners on business for the first time.....
Hehe well he is going on BUSINESS I thought...lol:icon_cheesygrin::icon_cheesygrin:
Seriously though have a great trip mate. Remember the update and the pics, we want to see the pics...lol
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Brett , I also wish you the best of Luck with your Lady and especially her Parent's . You are a guttsy Person , bringing Tea to China ... when everybody take Tea out . :icon_cheesygrin::icon_cheesygrin:
Anyway , looking forward for your up-dates and Photo's .
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Best of luck Brett. Keep your eyes open, but make sure you enjoy yourself at the same time. It sounds like you have things heading in the right direction. We look forward to reading your updates.
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BTW for national day my lady wore a new T shirt, a nice miniskirt and black thigh highs. As if that wasn't good enough she got the pictures taken in some beautiful gorge off the Yangtze :icon_cheesygrin:.
Brett,
You know the unspoken rules of the Brotherhood; you can't tempt us and then leave us high and dry ... :huh: ... picture ??? :icon_cheesygrin:
Have a fun & great trip ! :icon_cool:
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You know the unspoken rules of the Brotherhood; you can't tempt us and then leave us high and dry ... :huh: ... picture ??? :icon_cheesygrin:
But then after seeing the pictures.....we won't be high and dry but low and sticky wet :-/
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Yes I think we deffinatly need to see the pictures now.Good luck Brett.Wuhan is a good place to make a start.
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Greetings Brothers,
Brett,
Hope you have a great trip and everything works out for you. As the others have said dont forget the updates and the pics. Oh and with the pics you can also include one of the local landscape or yourself along with all the others of your lady hehe. Yes we want to see what this very slim beautiful lady looks like in her new T and mini and thigh highs, oh yes we do.
Good luck and have a great trip.
Reards,
Zhen and Brian
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... oh yes we do...
Yes please, you have whetted my appatite, well you wetted something...lol
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The truth comes out ! The chinese Lady's are very special related to all the Women in the World . But Men ? I see , they are all the same ... show .. show me whatever concerns a beautiful Woman . To think I'm a Man also ... so where are those Photo's ? I'm ashamed of myself :blush: really .:angel:
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... oh yes we do...
Yes please, you have whetted my appatite, well you wetted something...lol
No, Rob, you wetted something. :icon_cheesygrin:
Arnold, you are just a dirty old man just like the rest of us. By the way I shouldn't have said old.
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No Shaun , I like ART ... in all forms . Remember , to me all Women are like Flower's and I like to see what " Flower " Family they belong to . Nothing else !:angel:
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Brett, I wish you all the best in your trip in Hubei and wish everything can be as nice as you can share it here with all of us.
It seems that yes, you've found a special lovely lady who seems to be your real half one :)
So...
If the chemistry works when face to face, that would be very good for you :)
Don't forget to keep us updated :)
N.B / So, any pictures ? or not? ^^'
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Brett,
Hope everything goes better than you wish for, you've put in a lot of effort and hard work for the foundation of your relationship with your lady and deserve every success possible.
Best of British, mate.
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Brett,
Have a nice trip, best of luck, although I think you already are very lucky and don't need any more ^_^.
Best wishes to you!
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Well after 35 hours or so of being awake I am here.
First impressions - Heathrow Airport. What a bloody dump.
Beijing airport, we'll it's absolutely incredible isn't it. Wow, it has a little train running down the middle. And ha ha ha a can of coke is 20p. Let me say that the women shop assistants in most (maybe all) the airside shops were absolutely stunning.
My flight to Wuhan was stuck on the runway sliproad for ages due to meh. We got served steamed pork rolls and were shown (amongst other things) Les Dennis' funniest home videos. Welcome to China lol.
Wuhan airport, again quite new. Leaving the arrivals hall, well as a Westerner I was literally mobbed by illegal taxi touts! But luckily I found the official despatch stand. The taxi to central Wuhan cost 100RMB. Life experience gained - priceless. The seatbelt didn't work and he asked me something mysterious, I think it was if we wanted to use the toll road and whether he would do it for a fixed price. We witnessed many harrowing road rage incidents, but only one actual fight between two car's occupants.
How do people cross the road here? Maybe I am stuck in this block until my lady comes to rescue me.
First impressions of Wuhan? Well due to the torrential rain I've not seen much. You guys were so obsessed with my suit that you did't tell me to pack a bloody umbrella!
Oh and this hotel (Novotel) is fantastic, it's a bit too sumptuous for my liking but at least it's a little oasis of calm from the madness going on outside.
Tomorrow I explore.
Sorry no photos yet, it's dark out and my lady arrives later in the week.
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Don't worry, I'll keep you all updated. I have a saying, sleep is for babies and old people ha ha ha!
Going to sleep to the sound of taxi horns. When I wake up I'll venture out and try to buy an umbrella with a !00RMB note :fi_lone_ranger:.
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Brett,
Hope everything exceeds your expectations.
Shaun
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Tomorrow I explore.
Safari hunter? :D
(did you take the safari suit? ^^)
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Don't worry, I'll keep you all updated. I have a saying, sleep is for babies and old people ha ha ha!
Where do I come in that then Brett??
Willy
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Brett , for 100rmb they will sell you 3 brolly's no need to buy a Gucci one , they are only 35 yuan here in Australia
Check with the lovely ladies at the Novatel they may have one tucked away for guests , have fun , and see if you can get the bus -- cooks tour of the city so you can get 1 percent familiar with the place , regards Robert .
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Well the rain has eased off so I had a look around the neighborhood.
(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2650/4005346722_d74ae526ed_o.jpg)
I sure wish I had my SLR with me, my compact is a bit rubbish for this sort of thing.
Anyway, I failed to find somewhere selling umbrellas. But I did find a McDonalds. Result.
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You could have done a deal with that women!!! Mind you the guy standing back looks as if he is her minder.
Willy
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Hey Brett,
Sorry I missed you going and didn't get the chance to wish you 'bon voyage' but I'm sure you know that, as with all the other Brothers, my heartfelt and very best wishes go with you.
First the mushy bit: I deeply hope that your lady exceeds all your expectations (if that is possible) and is your one true and loving soul mate. And that you end up walking hand-in-hand together for the rest of life - how I love that wonderful Chinese philosophy!
Ok, that's the mushy bit (but believe me, sincerely said and felt): is there any chance that you could do a slight detour and pop over to Chongqin and drop a music CD in to Fei for me? Oh, and could you get back as soon as possible as I'm missing your helpful suggestions for my EMF's!
One last thing, look out for Willy, shouldn't be too hard - from what I see of his posts he's a tall black-haired bloke who is always leaning on walls - among other things.....
Have a wonderful time Brett: sing as if no-one is listening; dance as if no-one is watching; and love liked you have never loved before.
Missing you already!
John
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One last thing, look out for Willy, shoundn't be too hard -
Well it should be if the new Viagra is working as well as the pharmacist says!!!!
Willy
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One last thing, look out for Willy, shoundn't be too hard -
Well it should be if the new Viagra is working as well as the pharmacist says!!!!
Willy
Nice one Willy! I've had some great laughs at your posts; keep them coming, Look forward to seeing you over there one day - BTW, you seem to be aptly named........Best, John
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Well I've just got back from a walk around the neighborhood. Well, it's hard to put the place into words really. I don't know if the rest of China is as chaotic as Wuhan is.
The gulf between rich and poor here is vast. Walking past a chaotic hospital was very sobering. You don't want to slip down the social ladder here. I think that as wealthy Westerners we have to avoid pandering to our ladies and their families too much - there are 1000's of beautiful ladies here who would do anything to find a wealthy husband, so if yours is too demanding then choose another. Wow that's tough but that's what my well travelled friend told me when I started this adventure, and I'm beginning to think that's the truth.
I've taken a few photos, but with people staring and not having my SLR kit it's hard to get good shots.
Oh, and in 2 hours of walking I didn't see a single Westerner, much less one wearing a suit.
I have at least found a shop that sells beer. It's about 30p a can or large bottle. I could only carry 50RMB worth of shopping and after spending all that money they only gave me 1 carrier bag.
I might go out again later although I only have a Chinese map of the city and the traffic is horrendous. I am not kidding guys when I tell you that crossing the road here is a near death experience :s.
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Hahaha ... Brett , am I surprised ? No ! We all talk about it here , but to see it first hand yourself ... nice . We are all born to drive this way , as you are doing it on the other side of the Road .:icon_cheesygrin::icon_cheesygrin:
Let the fun begin .... can't wait for more .
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It's difficult to get good photos when everything looks so murky...
(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3507/4006973801_09ab317477.jpg)
I guess it's due to the amount of rain last night.
Cute. Very cute:
(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2558/4006973527_21f869af1c.jpg)
Crossing the road is a near death experience:
(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3514/4007742016_1e74098a8c.jpg)
Wuhan's bicycle repair man:
(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2428/4006972871_ea42c330f6.jpg)
Capitalism starts here:
(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3486/4006973135_e87c6c5a77.jpg)
There's more at http://www.flickr.com/photos/drguid/ (http://www.flickr.com/photos/drguid/)
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'seems like the weather may be the same as in Chongqing. Maybe I'm wrong... but as on the pics, I don't see the sun, that reminded me about it :)
By the way, thanks for the pics, brett :)
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No, no, no...its not the rain...the rain has CLEARED some of the pollution !!!!
Wait 'till tomorrow...then you wont see anything :icon_cheesygrin::icon_cheesygrin:
DavidE
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Great photos Brett, get used to the murkyness, if you see the sun by the time you get home it will be a bonus.
The cute Chinese ladies are all the prettier without a beautiful blue sky to distract you !
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Well guys - a major surprise here. I've been out for a lot of the day. Westerners seen = 0. I did not expect this. Wow I am glad I am an experienced traveller - if this was my first trip outside the UK or even my first trip to Asia I'd be too scared to leave the hotel room :icon_confused:.
I am coming to the conclusion that Wuhan is the last place to be discovered by Western tourists. I have seen some incredible stuff - folk really live their lives on the street here. I've wandered all over the place - I am incredibly lucky in that my hotel is next door to Wuhan's tallest building so there is little fear of getting lost!
Aside from McDonalds I've not seen any Western restaurants. Or Japanese restaurants come to think of it. I have found somewhere to buy European wine though.
I am waiting for my lady to show me the tourist sites. I have no idea how you catch a bus when there is no English at all. There's not a great deal of English signage here. In fact apart from street signs and tree names in the park there is practically none.
Mike - the taxi ride from the airport was fantastic but I am not really sure if the highlight was the torrential rain, the lack of functioning seatbelt or the fact that at one point we were almost a bus sandwich. Oh and the driver took great pleasure in calling his mates on the cb radio to tell them some other taxi drivers were resolving a roadrage incident with their fists.
I should write up my exploits for a travel supplement, this really is a trip into the unknown...
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Brett,
Welcome to China!! .....So, ...Now will you believe what I've been telling you all along???
And not just about the suit either.... lol!!
David....
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Well I've seen the babies shitting, the spitting and all that stuff.
There's plenty of stuff I didn't expect, like the shoe shine women!
This place is definately a more capitalist economy than the USA, I haven't seen much in the way of Communism!
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Just remember Brett , now you work by Chinese time , so from 12.00 to 22.00 or 22.30 is time for midday rest ha ha , ah notice I did not say sleep , remember that saying Mad dogs and E-----man go out in the midday sun , you are quite right about their open capitalistic society , you will enjoy all .
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Brett,
There's never been a true communist country in this world, and certainly not China. Communism has only ever worked on paper, as soon as you add the Human element into the equation, it all turns to rat-shit.... And that's a ''FACT!!''
David....
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There's meant to be a fabulous night market here, but I have no idea where. Oh well I am done exploring for today. I still haven't got down to the river or even explore the other two sub-cities of this place.
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Brett,
There's never been a true communist country in this world, and certainly not China. Communism has only ever worked on paper, as soon as you add the Human element into the equation, it all turns to rat-shit.... And that's a ''FACT!!''
David....
Communism doesn't even work on paper, I studied Economics and it's the easiest model to break, it does not take into account human nature ^_^.
Wait until you get into a formula 1 taxi :icon_cheesygrin: I did Pudong to airport in 15 minutes, planned time was 45 minutes according to all info I got in the hotel, the driver was slaloming between the other cars on the freeway, going about 160km/h (100mph). I used to drive like that when I was younger, but he was in a hurry for sure ...I wonder if the car's brakes were in order :s
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Pudong to what ... Pudong Int. ? It took me and my Wife from Puxi to Pudong Int. 45 minutes already . The darn Medlev Train take's 20 minutes , Downtown to Airport . Frank did that Taxi have a Five point seatbelt and did he make you wear a Helmet ? That is FAST !!!
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Voice,
I will have to disagree with you here, ... True communism is and has been recognised as the ideal system of government .....''On Paper'' that is!!
As you say, as soon as you introduce the human nature element into the equation everything falls apart, very rapidly. One of the main reasons for it not being able to work off paper, is that ''common worth'' does not work in human nature.
You can not pay a floor cleaner the same salary, as say a Doctor or other highly skilled individual. Perhaps a better example would be a floor cleaner and a farm worker or factory worker. Very soon the farm and factory workers would be saying to themselves why should i work like a donkey all day and have a salary the same as that Floor cleaner. .... So they slow down there daily output in the fields and in the factories to a level they consider is equivalent to what the floor cleaner is doing, and there-by, Lie's the start of communism never being able to work, in the real world, and one of the reasons, not a single communist country has ever been able to feed it's self. Without incentive to work hard, everything turns to rat's shit!!!
But, ....On Paper, it works, because none of the above has even been considered, because within communism, the State controls every aspect of a citizens life..... Except there human nature that is!! hahaha!!
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Well I'm back now after half a day spent with my lady.
I am happy to report that she actually exists. She looks a lot like she does in her photos, and I have to say that seeing somebody on webcam is a very good indication of what they will look like in reality. The 10 EMF then a webcam session should be a new rule.
First impressions of her were a bit hmmmm. She came in stinking of tobacco, which scared the hell out of me. But I think she must have got the world's heaviest smoker as a taxi driver! Also she isn't as tall as her chnlove profile claimed, although I have to say she's probably just about the ideal size for me and I am overjoyed that she isn't so tall that wearing heels would result in her towering over me. Her first choice of outfit wasn't really to my taste either.
When she arrived in the hotel lobby she was shaking like a leaf, the poor girl! She could barely work her translator her hands were shaking so much. Are other ladies like this when you first meet them? But we had a free drink from the bar while the hotel made her room ready. I must have said the right things because she soon calmed down! Her English isn't great, but it's better than my Mandarin. We have an incredible array of technology available to us though, so we're getting by.
I have to say that my lady isn't the most beautiful woman I have seen out here. Wow, that sounds a bit harsh. But she exudes smouldering sexuality. Gentlemen, you know what I am talking about. Some women have it, many do not. This is great, because a lot of these stunning Chinese women can tend to be very cold. My goodness, this is a seriously sexy woman, the kind you would do anything for! My initial fear is that there would be no chemistry between us. Chemistry is difficult to judge from a webcam. But I have no problems there. I have not had feelings this strong for a woman in quite some time, maybe not in my entire life.
Her voice is absolutely beautiful, probably the sexiest voice in China. I know I am not just saying this, because she was a very talented singer in her youth. I need to learn more about this. I will have to ask her to sing for me, but without the horror of Karaoke involved.
On our first date we had a very scary taxi trip to see the river Yangtze. Wow, it's big. There were lots of kite sellers. But no wind is terrible for business. I took a photo of my lady. She's amazingly good at striking a pose. God I wish I had my SLR and pro quality lens here.
Then we went for a little walk and found a little Chinese restaurant. The menu was all in Chinese. I had chicken and rice. Man, was it hot! I also had green tea. Hmm, the tea branches were in the glass. Unusual, but it tasted OK. My lady got the woman to take a photo of us (attached). Wow, 10 million people in Wuhan and we get the worst photographer in town.
After that we had a walk around the hip new shopping district. My lady was regretting her choice of footwear. I have to remember to walk more slowly when a lady is beside me. My lady kept asking for directions. She is a confident lady. I think she would be very good at organising my life.
We finished off with going to McDonalds. I didn't really want to eat there, but I thought it was a good place to go for a little stroll. My lady took her chips back to her room in a doggie bag. I've not seen anyone do this before.
Guys, if you think you will get stared at for being a Westerner here, just wait until you have a Chinese woman by your side. Wow, I have never seen so much rubbernecking in my life. Yesterday I got furtive glances, today very obvious stares! Especially from young women. My lady seems unfazed by it though, and I am one of those people who really don't care what others think about me. I get the feeling people wouldn't dare say anything to my lady, hee hee.
By the way, outside of the hotel I've still not seen any Westerners in Wuhan.
Tomorrow we might go to the zoo and see the dancing bears. The Panda is on loan to another zoo apparently.
Am I now the luckiest man alive? Discuss...
(http://www.brettb.com/MissWu1.jpg)
(http://www.brettb.com/MissWu2.jpg)
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Very nice mate...
Glad your enjoying it...HeHe don't worry about the staring I get it all the time...just poke yer tongue out at them...lol:icon_cheesygrin::icon_cheesygrin:
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Good news Brett! Next time she trembles, take her hand ^_^. Don't worry about the outfit, that's part of the cultural differences, she'll adapt with time, although that red polo shirt of yours, hmmm :icon_cheesygrin: (Just kidding! :icon_cheesygrin::icon_cheesygrin:)
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Tomorrow we might go to the zoo and see the dancing bears. The Panda is on loan to another zoo apparently.
Am I now the luckiest man alive? Discuss...
Luckiest Man Alive ??? ... Because you get to see the Dancing Panda Bear or because you're with Miss Wu ??? :icon_cool:
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Lmao I think its because the panda is on loan but it could be the bears dancing.That or to many cucumber chips lol
Ron
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Thanks Mike. Yes my lady was the most nervous I've ever seen anybody! But she soon calmed down which was great. She does grab my arm when we are crossing the road, which I think is a good sign. I would think that anything more than that is going to have to wait until we get parental approval for the relationship.
I'm not feeling very good now, I hope it wasn't the spicy chicken :s.
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Beautiful lady brett enjoy yourself.You take some great pictures than you for them
Ron
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Ah ... ha , so there ARE still beautiful Women in Wuhan ?
Brett happy for you of course . Glad your going HER speed with it all . But ... McDonald's ?
Funny , my Wife was shaking after I kissed her .:blush:
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So brett, how are you by now? Are you fine?
Glad to see anyway that all is fine between you and your lady :)
Beautiful lady, yes :)
You seem very happy on the pictures, and if she grabed your arm, it's a good sign. Go on that way :)
Maybe some ladies are nervous, some other not...
Liyan wasn't but maybe is it because it was late in the night and that she had to wait for me 3 hours in the airport before I could arrive there... ^^
About other people looking at you... Well, let them imagine what they want :) maybe they can guess, maybe not...
When going to see the bears dancing, you can also ask your lady to sing for you ;)
so you could have a free show :D (did I mean "private one"? :D)
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Well today we have been to the zoo and also the Yellow Crane Tower. My lady has outwalked and outeaten me. I am seriously tired today, so no more photo updates. The zoo was very cheap. Maybe if they charged more they could afford more animals. We did see 2 Pandas though! Frankly I was more excited by the fact that I saw 2 Westerners, country of origin unknown.
I have taken so many photos of my lady today. Wow, Chinese people know how to pose for photos, is it a class taught at school or something?
Tomorrow we go to her home town, so no more updates at all until next week (unless the hotel there has Internet).
I have determined my lady is carnivorous.
I am totally exhausted so the lady is now in charge!
P.S. The hottest ladies in all China are in Wuchang. My goodness I could not believe my eyes. That, gentlemen, is where you should focus your searching!
Wow, I found some reserve energy to do some photo uploading...
Hee hee, I love this shot, what fantastic timing:
(http://www.brettb.com/MissWu3.jpg)
Wow, the Chinese really know how to pose for photos (although some of them we copied from other couples!):
(http://www.brettb.com/MissWu4.jpg)
Wow, I should be able to get a photographer job with an agency, these are much better than airbrushed studio shots of ladies!!!
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I love that Panda picture! Glad to hear your trip is going very well for you.
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Way to go Brett !,
Your lady looks lovely and very happy and relaxed in the photo's.Great panda pic as well !. Now all you have to do is relax yourself, and let her take over and arrange everything. She is going to anyway , so give in gracefully. Remember when you think you know whats going on around you is probably when you don't have really have a clue!
Best of luck with the parents my friend, just be humble and show them lots of respect and you will do fine:icon_cheesygrin:
Ming Zhi,Paul
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Just spent a couple of hours with my girl. Her English is improving rapidly. Wow, I think her high school English is coming back to her.
I learned some interesting things tonight. She learned some interesting things about me as well. I think I am taking this forward exactly the way it needs to be taken forward. That is reassuring to know.
I have bought her father some red wine. It's Spanish and maybe not very good. Wow I had no idea wine would be so expensive here, beer and that firewater stuff are practically the same price as soft drinks. I didn't want to buy an expensive bottle though as her mother has taught my girl the value of being thrifty. Her case is full of hotel toothbrushes and combs hee hee hee. Have other brothers seen their girls do this? It is very comforting to me.
I hope the country air will be better as I can barely speak in Wuhan anymore. I am still battling the jetlag, but then yesterday in bed I was overwhelmed with the thought that hell, I might just have met my future wife today. No wonder I couldn't sleep.
Also how on earth can I sleep when these poor guys are sitting outside the restaurant down the road:
(http://www.brettb.com/DuckRabbit.jpg)
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Greetings Brothers,
Well Brett that sure is a pretty lady you have there and such a wonderful smile. As the others have said let her run things. She will anyway so might as well let her think its your idea hehe. Besides she will take much better care of you than you can for yourself.
Nice to see everything is going well and hope it only gets better for both of you.
Regards,
Zhen and Brian
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Brett , Photo's are fantastic , and your Miss Wu has a very pretty smile so you make sure you keep it there , and as this forum can be read by our ladies , they are all happy to read that they are in charge haha , enjoy , regards Ying and Robert .
ps ; have you enough tiny gifts for all you may meet
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Well yes my lady is gradually taking control which is good to see. She has told me to stop using EMFs altogether so she can practice her English. Wuhan is not her home town so she isn't totally in her comfort zone here. But she is a confident lady and if we get lost she doesn't worry about asking anyone for directions, even the guys who make a living from trashcans.
I love the way that Asians strike a great pose for a photo, I was cracking up when a guy was making a strong man pose in front of a statue today. It was funny but we copied a few interesting poses that other guy's girlfriends had thought of.
My new compact camera is great but I am slightly disppointed as I haven't had time to take as many photographs of this incredible metropolis as I had wanted to. Goodness me the SLR would have earned its keep here. Wow, Wuhan zoo was a photographer's dream it was just so bizzare.
Looking forward to the train journey tomorrow, it will be nice to see what the countryside looks like around here. My lady also lives near the 3 gorges dam so that will be good to see.
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Eh Brett, you trip is very nice to follow since the beginning. Your lady is very cute on photos and I do really like the photo with the panda ^^
You show us how happy you are there.
I think that spanish wine should be ok, some of it are very good. but your lady's papa may will let you taste with him, who knows? :D
Anyway, I wish you all the best with her parents.
gO Go GO oooooo !!!!! and keep us updated !!! ^^'
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Hi guys,
Well I had a good sleep although my limbs ache from all that following Miss Wu around the zoo and Yellow Crane Tower.
Another fantastic photo opportunity:
(http://www.brettb.com/MissWu5.jpg)
I think this was the lions. My lady was wearing the leopard tee hee...
(http://www.brettb.com/MissWu8.jpg)
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I was going to suggest a pair of levi's, but if it's that hot, find an air conditioner and camp next to it. I was in viet-nam and your clothes just cling to you as soon as you get off the plane. Real light t-shirt and shorts are the best.
Have a great time there Brett, and don't eat the frogs.....he he
We want to see pictures bro.......
The lady is beautiful to say the least, the lions look like their ready for a funeral home....hehehe
One word of advice also. I have noticed that on every chinese tourist bus that comes through town, when they get off, the men walk about 20 feet ahead of the women and never never hold hands, even if they come by car the man is always way ahead of the woman who has to walk (or stand in the street taking pictures) around 20 or 30 feet back. So hold her hand and walk with her as it will help your relationship for her to know your polite.
they just got through feeding the lions, the translators from china lovebridge company..........:blush:
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Her case is full of hotel toothbrushes and combs hee hee hee. Have other brothers seen their girls do this?
Brett , you don't know how this made me laugh out loud ?
My Wife does not do this .... BUT ... I do . I take Toothbrushes and paste , shaver's , Soap's , Lotion , shampoo and Conditioner's .
Hey ... I pay for them ... right ? I'm thinking of maybe the Toiletpaper next time . haha .
I like to show my LaoPo that i'm frugal .... which of course I'm not , but she will help me there .
Brett , you really have yourself a wonderful Lady there . Now I know why she is sooo pretty ... she is not from Wuhan . :icon_cheesygrin:
I have heared from the Facebook Forum , Wuhan Lady's are all cast-off's from other City's .
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... I take Toothbrushes and paste , shaver's , Soap's , Lotion , shampoo and Conditioner's .
Hey ... I pay for them ... right ? I'm thinking of maybe the Toiletpaper next time . haha .
This reminds me of a episode of Friends....LOL
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This has been a good day. My lady turned up at my hotel wearing a sexy pair of shorts and over the knee socks! As if that wasn't heavenly enough she had bought me a hot pork bun for my breakfast.
Well I survived the 4 hour train journey to my ladies home town. My goodness the crush to get on the train at Wuhan was horrific. I did enjoy the train journey though. It was good to see people eating noodles, playing cards and talking very loudly! I loved the food sellers coming through with melon on sticks and stuff. Outside I saw glimpses of rural China. The cow is the most popular make of tractor. All train stations have a uniformed man that stands beneath a sunshade. There is construction going on everywhere.
While my lady slept on the train I was overcome with the thought that I have found my perfect lady. It is astonishing how much we have in common. As soon as I saw my lady on chnlove I realised that she was different from all the other ladies. I was right and I am pleased with my male intution. Maybe you can tell more from MSN and Skype than we realise.
My lady's hometown is smaller than Wuhan, but I can't say it's any less crazy. The grow oranges and green tea here. The ladies here, well they're even hotter than in Wuhan (if that's possible). My lady was right, the clean air makes for the beautiful lady.
I have internet in the hotel but my mobile phone doesn't work around here.
This evening I went to my lady's apartment to meet the parents. The building was one of those really old crumbling places that smells of cooking and has many dogs running around outside. But inside the place was really lovely. It was also a lot bigger than I expected.
I met my prospective in-laws. My lady's mother is an excellent cook. I mean really omg excellent. She cooked a sumptuous feast. I didn't impress them with my appetite but I don't like to eat too much when I am hot and stressed, and this is the most stressful thing that I have ever done.
Anyway, the food was really astonishingly good. Everything was insanely hot, but not so hot that it was inedible. I think we ate authentic Hubei Province dishes, but I've never seen them in England. At home we mostly get Cantonese stuff, which isn't that spicy.
I am not sure how successful my gifts were. Their lifestyle is just so completely different to ours. But the generation gap between my lady and her parents is vast.
I noticed that my lady's mother is strikingly beautiful. She has flawlessly beautiful unwrinkled skin. For a woman of nearly 60 that's just unbelievable. I will try to determine her secret, as it would make me a multi-millionaire in the West! Hmm, I don't know if all Chinese ladies are like this, perhaps my brothers could share their stories.
Another thing I noticed is that when my lady is with her parents she speaks in a quite different dialect to what I've heard from her up to now. Wow, I won huge lady points for pointing this out!
rockycoon - we already get a lot of stares, if we held hands in public, omg I swear that people would be walking into trees or getting run over by mopeds! I think you could get away with it in Shanghai or maybe Guangzhou, but here, hmmmm.
I have been told to return to my lady's parents apartment next week. I will talk to my lady's mother. I will show them my photos.
I wore a shirt and tie to see them. I think that made a good impression. I am used to the heat and humidity now although it's not that hot at the moment.
In other news I have discovered that the Chinese make fruit beer. My lady likes it and so now do I. Actually my strangest discovery of the day was a supermarket where the beer cans were all stacked up the wrong way up. This really is a strange place.
I have now seen a total of 20 westerners in China. 12 of them were in the Wuhan hotel.
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Well done Brett , you are cruising , but be a bit forward and ask Miss Wu when you may hold her hand , she maybe the boss already , but 99 out of 100 Chinese women have never had their hand held like we do as a sign of affection , and she maybe shy to initiate this , you are creating a great read , regards Ying and Robert .
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Sounds great brett, so you have a hot future mother in law, I'd go easy on the beer around her then in case of mistakes haha!!
Nice to know your lady will probably age equally gracefully too if she takes after her mother. I have long given up in trying to guess Chinese womens ages, its totally futile to try!!
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I think you are doing a very good progress... It is the mother you will have to convince since they are in charge of who their daughter is going to marry.Don't forget that it is the mother you have to ask of permission of marrying their daughter. If you have the mother on your side you already won half the battle :icon_cheesygrin:
Good luck from Peter and Xiwen
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Brett, that's very nice to see how is your trip. So, it also seems that your mother in law (and your father in law too?) like you :)
Did you talk with them in chinese? Or will you, next time?
What about her parents? Are they traditional ones or not at all? Maybe did I miss something about it, but I doubt.
However, I just can say that I am waiting for more updates !!! so, what are you doing, mate !!! ^^'
Once again, I forgot to say that your lady is very nice, she takes care about you, well... just go on ^^'
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Now I am back in China Brett I have read all 8 pages of your thread to date.
One thing is puzzling me, aside from no mention of holding hands yet, but more important than that is - do you call her Miss Wu when you are together or 'my lady'? As I have no idea what your lady's name is from all your entries and all the others on this thread.
If I had a lady as pretty as she is then I would SHOUT her name on every page. Make her feel that is is No.1 in your life.
At least if she ever reads this thread she would know that she is first amongst my thoughts and she is not just a friend that you are visiting.
You tell us so much yet so little.
Do not risk losing such a great prize by appearing to be too aloof and uncaring about her. This means a lot to Chinese ladies. Your photo in the cafe - she and no one else would have objected if you had put an arm around her even if it was just that one shot.
You are there for a limited time so make such she is aware that you really care for her well before you return to the UK.
Willy
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Willy the Wise. I think all the viagra is going to the wrong head!
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You may be right there Neil. Just got up again and its 6am here and probably its still in my system.
In my early days here I was told by several women that I did not show that i cared about them so we went nowhere. Maybe I did not get that point acoss.
My experience since then is to show them that you do care not just tell them you do. They are more responsive to action than words. We tend to say things that they pretend to understand.
Willy
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Willy you got it right brother.Actions do speak louder then words with a Chinese women.Brett you need to up the game a notch.Hold the lovely womens hand.Let her see you smile.
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They are more responsive to action than words. We tend to say things that they pretend to understand.
This is correct. I am always telling my lady I want to "show" her I care though I write it a dozen times. She responds very positive to it. :icon_wink:
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Well guys it's now morning. I don't know what my lady has planned for us today.
I've taken some great pictures of her home town from my 17th floor hotel room. The window opens which is excellent health and safety hee hee.
It's very mountainous here, and I can see the Yangtze. I think Rio must look a bit like this.
Don't worry guys, there is plenty of stuff going on that I'm not posting here :blush:.
I don't know enough Mandarin to talk to her parents, but they know I am slowly learning. Their native dialect is nothing like Mandarin. Talking to my lady about important stuff is tough going.
I am not sure how traditional they are. Mr Wu wears different slippers in the lounge and kitchen. They eat their rice at the end of the meal. They like watching soap operas.
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Brett , now that you mention it ...Qing's Parent's do the same ... eat their Rice at the end of Dinner . I wonder why that is , many times .. but never ask . At the Reataurant we eat Rice with Dinner .. strange ?
Enjoy your Adventure very much , especially the surprises you encounter . Haha
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Maybe the rice thing is the same as our salads. When you go to a restaurant they bring the salad first before dinner. When actually it is to be the last thing to have after dinner.
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You have a point there Vince .... ones more . Haha
I find that to be true in Germany , Salad after Dinner ... not so much here in California . It's alway's Soup or Salad before . we tend to do the same at Home .
Maybe the Rice is last ... to soak up the Beer you had at Dinner-time .:icon_cheesygrin:
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I always have my rice after I have eaten although my maid serves it at the same time as dinner it is usually left to the end just to fill up any small space left. Needless to say I always leave plenty in the bowl so it does not get refilled. Most people here finish off with the rice so I just followed suit.
Willy
Still havn't heard the name of your lady Brett!
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Oh Dear, ...This is another of my dislikes in food, i can't stand boiled rice, apart from anything else is so dammed bland. Whenever we have rice at home, she always does me fried rice, and that's just fine by me, it's never pud-dingy..lol!!
David.....
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Wow, another lovely day with my lady.
This morning I did not feel good. Perhaps yesterday's food was too spicy, or perhaps it was the cooking oil or maybe I ate too much delicious Chinese potato.
When my lady arrived at the hotel we went out and bought a small mouse for my computer. Later we went out later to buy a mouse mat!
We tried to change my sterling into RMB, but that's not something that you can do here on a Saturday.
Today was a searingly hot day. My lady was regretting wearing long socks hee hee. We went for a long walk along the banks of the Yangtze. We saw men fishing, swimming and doing important stuff that men like to do. We stopped and ate an orange together. This part of China is famous for oranges and green tea. The orange was delicious.
There is a nice breeze by the river, and the sky is blue. The air is clean which makes the ladies beautiful. Wow, the ladies here are staggeringly beautiful. I think it is becuase we are so near to Sichuan Province, which does of course have the tall sexy ladies. Everybody in China knows this.
In the afternoon we returned to the hotel. My lady installed QQ for me, then spent a long time chatting to her friends. They loved the photos I had taken of her. I am glad that she is talking about me with her friends, it is critical that they approve of us.
In the evening we went out. We stopped by a music store. I stocked up on Jolin Tsai CDs and DVDs. Then we went to a nice restaurant. We sat in a nice private booth. I had eel with rice. My lady had a sizzlingly hot steak. She wolfed the steak down but left the broccoli. Ha! Even the Chinese hate broccoli. The restaurant had a soundtrack of classic 80's pop. My lady is indeed an excellent singer. Wow, such a beautiful voice.
The waitress in the restaurant was the most beautiful girl I have ever seen. My goodness. I could not keep my eyes off her. She was totally exotic looking, and flawlessly beautiful. Hmm, I may get in trouble with my lady soon, although she does like it when I tell her that the ladies in her home city are the best in China. Gentlemen if you don't yet have a lady, then book a flight to Chongqing immediately!
I am going to find it hard to go back home. I need to think about moving to Asia. I'm not sure I could live here though. It would be very strange to be the only white guy in Hubei Province. And the trafffic noise is bad. Maybe I will look for an expat job in Shanghai or Hong Kong.
I am now back at the hotel and have been told to get an early night. Tomorrow it is an early start so we can take in a cruise down the Yangtze and see the 3 Gorges.
I am now on QQ. Gentlemen, your ladies have QQ on their mobile phones, so don't take any crap from them about not being able to use it.
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Actually, are there any ladies under 40 who don't use QQ? I haven't found one yet.
Great trip Brett, keep it coming :icon_cheesygrin:
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Brett , I see you are alway's seem to be looking at all the other Women around you .. even when with your Lady ( what is Her name ) . Not to worry , I have done the same thing on my first Trip to Shanghai . It really is like walking into a candy Store and you don't know what looks and taste the best . But , you must not over do it . Don't give your Lady any " Hints " your not 100 % with Her .
I also enjoy your Trip very much , especially someones first . Can't wait for the photo's .
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Ha ha ha my lady knows how much I love her. I even bought a mouse mat with her name on it :heart::heart::heart::heart::heart::heart:.
BTW, the stuff about the other ladies here, well it is for you guys of course! It works the other way of course - there is a sizeable amount of stuff I'm not posting here!!!
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Brett,
Sorry to not have written but it has been crazy since returning after so long of an absence. I am really glad you are having a good time and enjoying it. Wuhan is different. My wife is originally from there so she and your lady will have something in common. I will pm you her phone number. I thought I did already but just in case. I am thoroughly enjoying your trip with you. You write well. Did you get a chance to see if she washed her clothes in the hotel? That is always a good sign. LOL. I got the biggest kick out of that. And yes mine took everything the hotel had to offer. But so do I. Even a face towel because it was so hot I had to wipe the sweat off. Anyway. Keep it up and tell us "everything". We all did so it is your turn. lol. Continue to have a great trip.
Jim
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Today was another good day. We got up very early (well for a Sunday that is!) and went to find the bus to the 3 Gorges Ferry terminal. The bus set off. My goodness, my lady had a huge todo with the tour guide using the strange local dialect (which reminds me of Swedish). Big panic, we are on the wrong bus!!!
Wow, we sprint back to the bus terminal and make it just in time for the right bus!
The bus takes us to a small boat terminal. Wow, the terminal is next to a phosphate spoil heap. Actually, that's not quite true - the terminal is in a phosphate spoil heap. We pick our way over huge piles of phosphate ore. I make a note that my lady's region is famous for oranges, green tea and now phosphate.
We have a boat trip down the Yangtze. It is raining, my lady is cold (so am I!!!) and the Chinese are not good boat mates! But I am blown away by the beauty of the Yangtze. I take many photos. I take so many photos I panic about running out of SD cards! It's fun to see the ships going up and down the Yangtze. Hmm, breathing their fumes was less fun.
Eventually we get out and go to a small local restaurant for lunch. It's totally mad and very basic. But the spicy potato dish was fantastic. The rest was so-so. There is a temple there. There are some lovely buildings. I am sorry I have no idea where we were, so I can't tell you where it was! There are a 400 year old man and woman in glass cases - maybe like the one abigbutt saw in Changsha. And there is a 1700 year old tree. There was also a horrifying gents toilet, the one with no cubicle doors. I took a sneaky photo to amaze the folk back home.
As the only Westerner in Hubei Province I had the honour of being photographed with a very attractive young lady. My lady thought this was very amusing. I hope she puts the photo of me and her on her wall hee hee!
After that the mystery tour resumed. It was a mystery as I didn't ask my lady what the destination was. It was more fun that way. My lady ate several items of fruit on the bus.
We ended up at the 3 Gorges Dam. There is strict airport type security. I don't know why, as you're not going to blow up the dam with a rucksack sized bomb. We went to a visitor centre. I saw some first rate Chinglish. I took plenty of photos of the lady. The dam was OK but the weather was not, so it was difficult to get good photos. The massive ship locks are impressive. The main dam is not much to look at to be honest. The gift shop prices were outrageous. Come to think of it, the tour really was a trip round several guideshops that happened to have good views beside them. After that we went to two more gift shops. One was next to a small park with some of the equipment used to build the dam. My lady was hungry again. I bought her some meat on a stick and some kind of other thing. I gave it a miss as it looked like the stuff Homer Simpson buys at the Quick-E-Mart.
After the trip we had a rest in the hotel. In the evening we went to a Sichuan Hotpot restaurant. It was pretty good. My lady has an unbelievable appetite. I don't know where she fits it in as she has the body of a teenager.
My lady is very tired today and so am I, so not much is going on. Her mother is going to buy my mother a gift. I need to talk about important stuff with my lady. But I find it very difficult to talk about such stuff when she is here. I don't yet know the depth of her English vocabulary. When I write Chinese I like to write things several times to get a good translation. Wow, even talking about mundane stuff like travel plans has been tough going. My voice is also very bad, maybe too much pollution.
I should not get too disheartened though. The aim of this trip was to determine if I want a Chinese wife, and if so, if this lady is the one for me. I am satisfied on both counts. Whether I push for an engagement now or whether I wait until later in the year I don't know. I only have 2 more days with my lady. I think I will wait to see how the talk with her mother turns out. I have 17 days more leave left from work so a return trip is possible. Maybe I also need to think about stuff back in England.
I asked my lady about QQ. I am still certain that everyone has it on their mobile, so my fellow brothers shouldn't take any rubbish about ladies not having it.
My cough has come back. There is a motto - man with bad lungs no live in China.
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Nice read Brett , I'm enjoying your Trip .
I would also wait with the Engagement , she is not going nowhere fast , after you leave . Before you go though , try to get her Ring-size somehow ( by checking her finger and compareing it with your's ) . So you can bring it with you on your return Trip . Keep her happy and smiling till then . It also give you a chnace to take it all in , what that Trip has meant to you all together . Is this the Woman , that I want to give this Ring to ?
Only two more day's ? Make the best of them and see if you find out what her name is by then . :angel: Ms. ----- Wu ?
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Yes I am not sure about getting engaged yet. I think I will tell her mother what my intentions are. I'm not even sure what the customs are here. Hmm, things work differently in this place. This place is very conservative. Mother Wu is in charge. Heck, they even speak their own dialect just in this city.
Returning home also gives me a chance to think things over.
As far as ring buying goes, I would like to make a return trip (I bought a 2 entry visa!) I want to meet my lady in neutral territory again, maybe in Shanghai, Beijing or HK. There we could go ring shopping (choosing would be a lot of fun).
I have two more days here, then I return to Wuhan for a day, then it's back to the UK.
Some of today's piccies.
If you can tear your eyes away from the knee socks, you might be interested to know that this is a vehicle used to build the 3 Gorges Dam:
(http://www.brettb.com/MissWu13.jpg)
The new happiest man alive - note the thing around my neck to stop me getting on the wrong tourbus (yeah like I've ever done that hee hee):
(http://www.brettb.com/MissWu14.jpg)
A totally bonkers pose. Sometimes she likes to surprise the hell out of me:
(http://www.brettb.com/MissWu15.jpg)
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2 great pictures of your lady, Brett! Oh...wait...what? there were 3 pics....hmmmm. must of missed that other one.:icon_cheesygrin:
Sounds like things are going great. I wish you total success with your lady...:huh: uhh..whats her name.
Don
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Brett, those aren't knee socks, they're Leg warmers. Many dancers use them when in practice for many reasons.
I sure would like to know what the words were on that sign behind her in the third photo?
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So Brett...Whatshername seems to be enjoying tour time with her too...:icon_biggrin:
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Sounds like things are going great. I wish you total success with your lady...:huh: uhh..whats her name.
Don
Brett has exactly two hour's to tell us " HER " name or they will be a warning near 100% .:fi_lone_ranger:
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Actually she has several names, but we need to talk about which one we'll use. To me she is my princess.
And leg warmers are footless, knee socks are not. Please don't let us have arguments about clothes names, god almighty it took me ages to ask her about her jumper last night. Hmm, do the Chinese have jumpers? Pullovers? Sweaters? :huh:
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. Hmm, do the Chinese have jumpers? Pullovers? Sweaters? :huh:
Brett , don't all of those come from there anyway ???:icon_cheesygrin:
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Actually she has several names, but we need to talk about which one we'll use. To me she is my princess.
And leg warmers are footless, knee socks are not. Please don't let us have arguments about clothes names, god almighty it took me ages to ask her about her jumper last night. Hmm, do the Chinese have jumpers? Pullovers? Sweaters? :huh:
haha, brett I know exactly what you mean.
It depends on her English teacher where pants means underwear or trousers, whether you go to jail or gaol of doing bad things etc etc
What accent has her English speech got?
Given the vast majority of exposure to English is North American based there films and on tv they show baseball and basketball apparently..never saw that on BBC or ITV etc) i'd use the American names for stuff.
Spot anything wrong where the cool kids hang out?
[attachment=897]
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It turns out her translator only knows the word "sweater".
Her English accent is beautiful, it's a lot softer than her local Chinese dialect or her posh Beijing Mandarin. She doesn't really have an English or American English accent, it's uniquely Chinese. Thankfully her English teacher in school was Chinese. I don't like to hear Asians with American accents! Her voice is maybe her best feature - she was a talented singer as a child and she still can sing beautifully.
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Bloody hell brett...I don't care about how well she speaks or in what language...:@
You are being rather obstinate in NOT telling us her name, have you got something to hide???:@:icon_cheesygrin::icon_cheesygrin:
If you don't tell us, I am gonna have to hunt you down and beat it outta you:@:@:huh:
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Oh yea, know what I gonna do? Sell popcorn. :icon_cheesygrin::icon_cheesygrin::icon_cheesygrin:
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I was woken up at 8 am by very loud music playing from my lady's former small school which is across the street from my hotel. Hmm, maybe if English kids did more exercising in the schoolyard then they wouldn't look like whales.
I wrote my postcards home. Wow, the guys in work are going to wonder how I got so good at writing Chinese characters.
After that, my lady and I went shopping. But first the bank saga.
Gentlemen, changing money in a small city here is not easy. After not finding any bank capable of changing money at the weekend we tried again today. The second bank agreed to exchange my English pounds. Wow, we were in there almost an hour, form filling, waiting, queueing. One of my £20 notes had some small holes in so they didn't want it. Brothers, don't bring foreign currency here if it's not pristine. They counted my money about 50 times. My lady didn't want the ripped 20 yuan they gave me. The exchange rate was so-so (whoever told me the exchange rate is better over here is talking rubbish!!!). Phew.
After that I went to look around clothes shops with my lady. I promised her we'd go clothes shopping when we were together. Man am I naive about women. Hmm, my lady found a beautiful coat. A beautiful, expensive coat. Even by Chinese standards it was expensive. I was a bit meh. She also bought a new pair of boots, but thankfully they weren't expensive.
We walked past a KTV place and I suggest my lady sing for me. Unfortunately sober English man with horrible throat infection does not want to sing. But lady is very good singer. I have chosen "our song". It is by Jolin Tsai. I don't yet know the name of the song but it's on the CD I bought from Hong Kong. I try some romantic stuff in the KTV booth but it doesn't go well, mostly because the place is very stuffy and I keep having coughing fits. My lady does notice that I can read some hanzi and I know a few Asian artists.
As well as English and Mandarin, my lady can sing in Cantonese. She only spent 1 year in Guangzhou and yet she is fluent in Cantonese. I don't know if that is a great achievement or whether it is easy to pick up after learning Mandarin. She is certainly learning English quickly.
On the way back to the hotel we spot a shoe shine guy. They're quite rare here, but in Wuhan the market is saturated. Hee hee my lady is shrewd with money. I am allowed to spend a three figure sum on a coat for her, but not pay the shoe shine guy more than 2 yuan. I wanted to pay more because my shoes were covered in mud from yesterday's boat trip. And he did a fantastically thorough job. He even washed the laces! But the lady overruled.
Wow, I should like to add that Western man having shoes shined is a big tourist attraction here. My celebrity status is undiminished.
Later my lady tried on the coat in my hotel room. Wow, all is forgiven. There's no point having a girl with a figure like hers and dressing her in rags. I felt totally humbled. The girl has a sensational figure and the coat shows off her tiny waist to perfection. With the matching boots she just looks unbelievable.
While I have a rest the lady talks to her friends on QQ. I guess some guys might find the lack of attention quite annoying. But I take comfort in the fact that she's not too clingy. I do like my own space sometimes, so it is good that she can amuse herself.
This evening we went for a meal. I ordered two main courses, as the fruit rice I thought was a side dish was actually a main dish. Mmmm, fruit rice is an interesting combination. I must try making it.
My lady forgets to order a beer. Hmm. I drink her red tea instead.
My lady tells me that her job is so-so. She self taught her way into her line of work, just like I did. Wow, another thing we have in common. If she comes to England I might be able to find her some other line of work that is better paid. Hmm, with 3 incomes we would be very well off.
We both ate too much and my lady went home with stomach cramps. My lady eats more than Western women and yet is stick thin. This is a puzzle.
Over dinner my lady shows some emotion and says she is sad that tomorrow is our last whole day together. She is very excited about my suggestion of meeting again at the end of the year. I suggest Beijing, Shanghai or Hong Kong. She is most excited about Hong Kong. I would like to visit the other two cities. However, I know Hong Kong very well and being on home territory so to speak will be a big advantage.
I had a little walk around the area near the hotel. I look for a supermarket to buy beer but there is none. The Chinese system of putting similar shops next to each other is annoying at times. Here are clothes shops and baby shops. No supermarket. I walk up and down a bit more. It is fun window shopping for attractive ladies for my unattached brothers. Wow, there are some strikingly beautiful ladies here. I really love the tall Sichuan women. It really is hard to keep your eyes off them. But being only 5"6' myself it would never work, just look at the crazy situations the president of France gets himself into.
Hopefully later she will appear on QQ. Tomorrow I have dinner with her parents. Her mother wants to ask important questions.
So generally things are still going well with the lady. We have so much in common it's unreal. We have had some brilliant days out. I still have lingering doubts though. Have fellow brothers had lingering doubts about a lady? Despite these lingering doubts, I just don't think I would find a better match. Maybe in England I can think things over. Drinking red wine and having a think, that would be good. It's too damn noisy to think in this country. Knowing how much I miss her will be telling as well.
I am disappointed that we haven't shown more emotion to each other. Maybe it needs more time. We are both unexperienced with the opposite sex. We are both very complex characters and have packed in a lot into our lives to date. And this is a conservative small city in a conservative country. I have however told her how much I love her so maybe she knows she doesn't need to deploy her feminine charms to woo me, I am already under her spell! I have noticed that she uses her translator for more intimate stuff - I guess they don't teach that kind of English in schools.
It has also been difficult to get some time away from other people. I thought the boat trip would have been a great place for some romance, but we were crammed in like sardines. On the coach trip the guy next to us kept talking to us. And doing anything in the streets is a nightmare.
This place is not at all like Japan with the sexy dressing up, the soaplands, love hotels and porn industry. The girl is still young and I could well be one of the first Westerners she has actually spoken to. Like most Chinese women she is very confident - she has no problem bartering in shops or asking directions and stuff. But it has taken her a long time to ask me personal stuff like what colour my eyes are.
Things have also moved more quickly in my wife finding idea than I expected. I only joined chnlove in July, and I did not expect to meet my soulmate so quickly. With having two jobs and having to spend a lot of time wooing the lady and making travel plans, there was only so much research I could do on this plan. I was also certain that I would find my soulmate in Japan. I did not know I was looking in the wrong country.
I am not certain what will happen with her mother tomorrow, but the signs are good. I think that I will wait and see what happens. Hong Kong would be a good place to get engaged, should that be the decision that is made.
I think we both may be unwell now. The breakfast she bought may have been a bit dodgy. I guess if your restaurant washes its vegetables in the street then you are asking for trouble lol.
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Brett.....Wow mate what a load of information you have supplied...I LOVE IT...
Your thread here is very VERY interesting, not only I think for the elder statsmen, but also will be helpful for the younger generation...Very Impressed mate.
Thank you for telling us 'Almost' (LOL) everything
Congrats on reaching this point in your relationship. Now the thing you must NOT do...is WORRY about what her mother is going to ask...Be yourself, and I am sure you will pass this test with flying colours
Good luck on the rest of it mate...
Ps
What's her name?...lol
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What is her name? :icon_cheesygrin: /b]
What is her name?:icon_cheesygrin:
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Guys, give me a break. I'm extraordinarily tired and emotional. Until we decide to make things official and I am ready to announce her name, she's Miss Wu.
I've given the brothers some priceless information in this thread. One more post about her name and I leave here forever :@.
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Guys, give me a break. I'm extraordinarily tired and emotional. Until we decide to make things official and I am ready to announce her name, she's Miss Wu.
I've given the brothers some priceless information in this thread. One more post about her name and I leave here forever :@.
Gee Brett, I don't think anyone was serous. Sorry man.
Shaun
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Yeah it's OK. We need to keep on topic here, if I don't want to post information then it's up to me. I have my reasons. Today is my last day with my lady for a while and that is what we need to be focussed on.
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Communism doesn't even work on paper, I studied Economics and it's the easiest model to break, it does not take into account human nature
Whether or not it works on paper, it has the ability to inspire people. Have a think about what it meant to the people on the long march. And whether or not you think that China is communist or capitalist, you should spend some time reading what the leaders of China say about the matter, whether or they think it is communist or not. They take it pretty seriously, that's for sure.
Yeah it's OK. We need to keep on topic here, if I don't want to post information then it's up to me. I have my reasons. Today is my last day with my lady for a while and that is what we need to be focussed on.
Good luck to you Brett. I have been catching up on everything you have written today. It's a great story. What a journey you're leading. However it turns out, it sure will be something fine for you to mull over, when you're an old man, sitting on the verandah.
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Keep it cool Bro. We are all just joking here. i think we all have had our doubts at one time or another, it comes with the territory. Even after our engagement there were times when I would ask myself what the hell am I doing? Not until I spent a lot of time with her living together did all my doubts go away. I took the 10 days before our marriage to make sure. Living with her helped. Now I am one of the happiest guys alive and would not change anything except for the distance between us.
What you are doing is probably the correct thing by going back home and then thinking about it. One suggestion, before leaving, buy her a "friendship ring", or a nice necklace, something she can show to others and keep face with. This also shows her how serious you are. Actions always speak louder than words. Just a thought brother. Dont know your finances. I sent you my wifes phone number for her to call and she is expecting it whenever she wants. I never let my wife read here. She knows about the place but I told her it is mine and for men only. That way I can be as honest about things here and not worry about her taking things the wrong way. The reason I say this is so you know she will not give anything away unintentionally.
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Hi all,
Yes I'm back again. This is a tough thing to do, very tough. Only the brothers who have come to China can fully appreciate what a big thing to do this is. This is especially tough for me as my lady is in one of the less Westerner friendly provinces. The number of Westerners I have seen can be counted on my fingers and toes. Example - Wuhan station has no English signage whatsoever. In the street outside the station there are chickens running around.
I am back in Wuhan but my lady is not. I am too emotional to post the intricate details about what has happened. But her parents have accepted me and we know we are a perfect match. I am not sure what our official status is, I didn't get as far as reading what you have to do to show you are engaged. Google's translator was down last night and my lady's high school English isn't really up to this kind of stuff.
Both of us are also very inexperienced at relationships so conservative Chinese girl and repressed English man is hard going. Thanks to my stiff upper lip I waited until returning to the hotel room for a little cry.
We will meet again early next year. I have suggested Hong Kong as it's the best place to choose an engagement ring, and my lady was jumping up and down on the bed in excitement of the prospect of going there.
Miss Wu doesn't know about this place and she is one of the most IT literate women on chnlove so I have to be careful. My goodness when she found out a mysterious lady had added herself to my QQ it was not a good thing. Miss Wu is her Internet name. At the end of the day, this site needs to be about us brothers finding ladies, and not too much about our ladies themselves. Yesterday I learnt many interesting things for my brothers. I will post them as I remember them :icon_cheesygrin:.
Peace brothers!
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Brett , you could have exchanged curtain rings to show Miss Wu that she is now yours and you are now hers , till you get to Honkers , in China it is not the value , but the thought that counts , also check your visa for how many trips in and out of China for your next trip as shopping is cheaper over the border back into China and as your lady will have to also get a visa certificate for Honkers she also may need multiple entries , regards Ying and Robert .
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I think Brett is being very wise in going back to the UK before making any decision.
For me moving to China is the best thing that ever happened to me but even though I am living in the modern cities of Zhuhai and Zhongshan I rarely see another 'foreigner'. In my travels around both cities I do see a lot of people living third world lives in what are modern surroundings.
I am the sort of person who in the past has had to adjust to living in many varied conditions. My choice is to live in China to the best standard that i can afford and that I do.
So like Brett you could well have doubts about living in China but for others like me it was an easy one to make.
I know how most of you feel everytime you leave. Maybe I do not in some ways as when I return to UK I know that within a fews days I will be returning to the place I now call home but for others it can be many month, if ever, they return to rthe same lady.
Maybe I may do a piece on my first 4 months here my thoughts and story so far. (Of course leaving out the casual relationships.)
Willy
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Hi Willy,
I am certain my lady is the right one for me. That much is known. My next task is to turn us from good friends into lovers and make engagement/marriage plans.
I am less certain about living in China. It's very noisy, the air is bad and I cannot imagine living in a place where I get stared at constantly. Wow, in Hubei Province I am a celebrity and my having my shoes cleaned drew a small crowd. I don't mind pretty girls asking to be photographed with me though.
The language is also very difficult and even my attempts to say "I love you" were a total disaster lol :blush:. The dialect in Western Hubei is really bizzare as well.
My lady also says that life is tough here in China. Competition for good jobs is intense. Actually I'd add that given there are 10 shoe shine women between my Wuhan hotel and the supermarket, competition for crappy jobs is just as intense. I think if I lived here I would ensure I made my own living. I already have a small software business so that is a good starting point. But at this point in my life it does not make sense to throw away my lucrative day job back in the UK. My lady is a quick learner and if she got a good job in the UK we would be very wealthy. Then she could visit China as often as she liked. I think that would be better than scratching out a living out here. Hmm, I have seen her go clothes shopping. She is impressive. A Western lifestyle would be very attractive to her.
I suppose I could get an expat job. But these are becoming rare as the Chinese go off to foreign Universities to get a good education then return with the skills and language ability to do jobs formerly taken by Western expats.
I am not even sure I like the idea of Western language teachers. My goodness my lady has the most beautiful accent thanks to her English teacher being from China :icon_cheesygrin:!
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I wonder if I'll be stared at...4 feet 9, shorter than the average Chinaman...lol
ROFLMAO:icon_cheesygrin::icon_cheesygrin:
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Well I'm only 5"4'. I'd really love one of those Sichuan goddesses but the size difference just wouldn't work. If I forgot to do something important she'd batter me.
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Bloody hell mate I was with my ex wife for 28 and a half years, married for almost 26...She is 5 foot 8 inches...And it worked:icon_cheesygrin::icon_cheesygrin:
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Yes I think height is only a problem if people make it a problem - like all the flack the French president gets over his lovely [tall] lady!
If I knew about the Sichuan ladies back in August I think I would have confined my search to Chongqing. But I am happy with my lady. The waitresses in our favourite restaurant though... omg :s.
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I am less certain about living in China. It's very noisy, the air is bad and I cannot imagine living in a place where I get stared at constantly.
Of course you are only refering the the province that you visited. In Guangdong provice the air is probably a great deal better than London and a little better than Essex. As for looking at you, that soon passes. Either they have stopped looking and got used to seeing me or I just do not notice.
It is funny just how quickly one can get used to superstar staus. :icon_cool:
Willy
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Well guys today is my last day in China. Tomorrow it is back to the UK.
I was feeling very unwell earlier today. My cough is gone but then my stomach went bad. I suspect the bottle of Chinese red wine I drank last night might have killed off my good bacteria and let the bad ones overwhelm me. I am thankful for the stack of immodium I took with me. Standards of cleanliness here are poor. Babies shit in the streets, there are chickens wandering around and vegetables are washed in the same dirty streets that the babies shit in and people spit all over! Brothers, take care with what you eat here, although I am probably not the only brother to suspect that it may be safer to eat in Chinese restaurants rather than Western places. Good luck ordering food though ha ha ha.
I am not as distraught as I was yesterday. Leaving my lady was horrendous and I maintained my stiff upper lip until my lady appeared on QQ and I couldn't take the heartbreak anymore. The thought that she was not here was just too terrible to contemplate.
I was unsure as to whether my lady was as sad as I was when we parted, but I looked again at the last photo I took of her and her expression is clearly one of sadness.
As soon as I saw my lady's profile on chnlove I knew she was different from the rest. She used natural photos, and looked quite geeky. Wow, I must be a good judge of personality because I was spot on. She is even more of a computer geek than I am. She has a very nice computer at home, and has a massive monitor. I do find her character quite puzzling though. She is very outgoing and has no problems ordering me or other people around. Despite this we haven't yet got emotionally close. I can make her laugh and stuff, but that is all. I guess I am worried that she doesn't love me. Maybe I haven't impressed her enough. Perhaps the problem is that she is very inexperienced at relationships with men and I am the same with women! I have told her this is something we need to work on. Maybe my brothers can assist. She also told me in an EMF that maybe I could have been more humourous. Hmm, it is difficult to be humourous when you are sick, jetlagged and in a very strange place. I guess she also doesn't know about the Englishman's need for substantial quantifies of alcohol when entertaining. I could not imagine an English guy enjoying KTV when sober.
I am not sure what the Chinese relationship with alcohol is. But it doesn't seem to be at all like the Japanese relationship with alcohol. My lady say it makes her face go red, and I have seen photos of her friends who all have red faces! Mr Wu gave me half a can of beer to drink. Mrs Wu drank a tiny amount of red wine. I haven't seen much in the way of pubs or bars like we have in Europe. I am not really liking the room temperature beer they often give you out here. Pah, it's like 1970s England.
Despite this we seemed to have got on really well. In Wuhan we had a great time at Wuhan Zoo and the Yellow Crane Tower. I scored a major hit with my choice of the zoo as being a good place to visit. We also had a fantastic day out on the barmy Chinese boat/coach tour of gift shops and the 3 Gorges Dam. Walking through the phosphate rock stockpile to get to the boat will probably be my second funniest memory of China (the funniest by far was going to KFC and finding they had run out of chicken, so we had to make do with beef and fish).
I have sent her an EMF outlining the way forward for our relationship. My lady loved the letter but is too busy to fully reply yet. She also needs to talk things over with her parents. Actually, last week my lady was on the phone to the translator discussing my latest EMF - sometimes they call the lady and the lady will dictate a response. They were on the phone for ages, so rest assured good agencies will take time to explain your letter fully.
My lady is happy with the idea of moving to the UK. I think she will like it there, as she admits that life in China is hard and competition for jobs is intense. I have noticed that I have not got homesick on holiday at all this time. I am now of the opinion that home is where your lady is. If my lady thinks the same then her moving to the UK will be pretty straightforward. Is this what my fellow brothers have found?
I need to think of a career for my lady. She is intelligent, is learning English rapidly and is very good with computers. Her English is easily good enough to get a basic immigrant first job in McDonalds or something, but I think she should aim higher. If she is talented at languages then there should be no problem finding a job. I did a little research and although there are nearly a million Chinese in the UK, the overwhelming majority are Cantonese. Mainland Chinese (apart from students) are rare in the UK.
My lady's family is fairly happy with our situation. As it is her 30th birthday soon I guess marriage options must be dwindling. Although my lady is good looking, competition for good husbands must be intense in a city where pretty much every woman has a perfect figure and the beauty of many of the women is simply extraordinary.
I found it encouraging that they gave me some green tea for my family and some Pinyin books for me. Hubei province is renown for its excellent green tea (as well as oranges and phosphate and tobacco). My lady tells me that I should have made more of an effort to learn the language so I could say simple greetings. But to be honest I am not getting on with this language at all. At home I will start my Mandarin course though, so hopefully I can improve on this. Maybe I could also have been more respectful in their presence. But going to China for the first time is a daunting experience, and as some my brothers can attest to, visiting your lady's home is a scary thing to do. I also found it very hard to judge their body language. Mr Wu was a man of few words. Hmmm, this generation of 20-35 year olds is very different from their 50+ parents. My lady's parents had to learn Russian in school! My lady's generation learn English, and they eat at KFC.
My gifts to my lady and her family were a bit hit and miss. I am not sure if they will drink the Indian Green Tea I got them from Fortnum & Mason, but I'm sure they will use the tin for something. Hmmm, the way the Chinese drink tea here is very different to anywhere else. I am not sure they will use the Colman's mustard or Maldon sea salt I took as gifts from my province of the UK, but at the end of the day it's the thought that counts. The things they were most fascinated with were a Coca Cola screw top can that you can normally only get in Japan, and blue toilet paper. "Here, only white" is what my lady says.
Another problem I have is that I was convinced my soulmate was in Japan. It turns out I was looking in the wrong country. I am much more familiar with Japanese culture as well as the language.
Oh well, when I return to the UK and my lady catches up with her work backlog them we will have plenty of time to discuss our time together. I do find that she is reluctant to discuss more personal issues. I also know that she was embarrassed talking about intimate things via her translator. Brothers, that's an important lesson!
Onto other things...
Despite feeling rough, I put my travel photographer head on and I have been for a couple of walks around Wuhan. This is the most interesting place I have ever been to, and given that I have been to Japan, Hong Kong, New York and most of Europe that's saying something! Even my lady thinks this city is mad. My goodness for anyone interested in street photography this has to be the greatest place on earth. Seeing China undergo its transformation into a 21st century superpower must be as amazing as going to 1920s New York, or 1930s Shanghai. When I get home I'll upload my best shots to flickr. I took about 900 pictures while I was here. I am quite impressed with my new camera (a Canon G10). It's great in that it fits in the pocket, so I don't attract too much attention by walking around with a camera. I do wish I had my SLR and pro lens though as I could have got some amazing shots with it.
I am staying in a 5 star Novotel hotel (and very nice it is to). The gulf between rich and poor here is immense. Near the hotel is a shopping mall where even I cannot afford to shop. But less than a block away there are chickens roaming the street and people cleaning shoes for 2 yuan a go. I haven't seen the absolute poverty here of the type you see in the India. But life at the bottom here must be grim, especially for the shoeshiners and farmers who cycle into town to sell their produce.
I am not sure if Wuhan is representative of the rest of China. But I suspect it is one of the main magnets for immigration from the countryside. My lady was showing me photos of Shenzen and Nimbo, and both cities looked a lot cleaner than Wuhan does! I bet the residents still hang their washing on the trees though.
This afternoon I got very brave and walked around one of the gated communes you see here. My goodness it was an extraordinary place. The old folk were sat around playing board games and exercising in the little park. There were chickens roaming outside shops. I found it difficult to take photos there, but it is a memory that will stay with me forever.
I was pleased to find a CD/DVD store while wandering around, so I have packed my case with Jolin Tsai goodies. If proof was needed that China is a conservative country, then a look around such a store gives you confirmation. Hmm, Hong Kong's stores are much less repressed, and as for Japan, well anything goes!
So all in all I have had a fantastic trip to China. I have been to one of the less touristy parts of China. I have met a beautiful lady who is a very good match for me. Like all couples we have some rough edges to resolve. But I go home safe in the knowledge that none of my friends and family will never be able to outdo my photo album from this trip!
P.S. Willy - my cough has pretty much gone now. The air in Wuhan is pretty bad. But in the countryside it wasn't much better, I think this is due to the farmers burning rice stubble.
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Looks like ya had a nice trip. And ya also became a Jolin Tsai fan. Hehehe. Should get her dvd if you havent yet. Not too bad.
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Brett: It's the really fine particulate that's in the air. When I was in Beijing last, I went to the Bird's Nest and picked up this nasty cough (not the flu, nothing, it was from walking across from the subway to the stadium). Warm liquids helped a bit, but it took 3 weeks of being away that fixed that problem.
Chet: Really surprised that some other artists haven't been mentioned like Zhang Liang-Ying (although sometimes she is over commercialized) and Chris Lee. Jolin's a little too cute looking for me.
In-Jaul
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Yes I've loved Jolin Tsai since I found her CD/DVD set in Hong Kong in 2006. "Our song" will be a Jolin song. My bag is full of her other CD/DVD sets.
Anyway I am now back in the UK. Things are good between me and my lady. It is clear that I wasn't exactly what she was expecting. She was also a bit different to what I was expecting (but not that much different). Like all couples we have a few issues to address. But as long as we love each other we should be OK.
My lady wants to get married in the UK - I'm not sure if this is possible (I've opened another thread for responses).
I would still want to live in Asia one day. I am not sure about China. The place is good if you have money and influence. But there is a long way to drop if you fall off the social ladder. You would not ever want to get in trouble with the authorities as punishments are severe - even being in debt can get you a lengthy jail sentence. And the place is not a healthy place to live - standards of cleanliness are poor, and pollution is bad. Actually I don't think Wuhan was too bad, but in Yichang the air was thick with soot from farmers burning their rice stubble, and from my 15th floor hotel window the air was stinking.
I also found China to be quite a dull place (aside from the excitement of going to a foreign country!). There's none of the vibrant bar culture you see everywhere else in the World. They still have to import a lot of popular culture (like Taiwanese pop singers and Hong Kong movies). TV is full of the most awful period TV soap operas. There's no sexy stuff going on like in Japan.
I am also suspicious of the Chinese economic miracle. There are a lot of banks, a lot of empty new apartment buildings, a lot of expensive shopping malls with few customers. Could boom soon turn to bust, as it frequently does in the West?
Air China wasn't great, on the way back my seat was broken and their choice of movies was awful. The stewardesses were lovely though. Beijing airport is fantastic though, and I recommend changing there if you want to get an internal flight to see your lady.
It looks like my next trip will be to meet my lady in Hong Kong.
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Brett Beijing Zhuhai,Shenzhen,Macao.All have very good nightlife.Bars,clubs, kKtv,Gambling in Macao.I can't say about the other cities because I haven't ben to them.
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Yes we are planning on visiting Macau when we visit HK. I didn't see any bars in Yichang, but maybe my lady doesn't really go to them, she's more of a KTV girl. Her father prefers to stay home and watch those curious soap operas. But then if my wife could cook like that then I don't think I would leave the house either.
I am missing China, but I sure as hell won't miss room temperature beer (beer with ice in it is just too wierd) :@.
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I also found China to be quite a dull place (aside from the excitement of going to a foreign country!). There's none of the vibrant bar culture you see everywhere else in the World. They still have to import a lot of popular culture (like Taiwanese pop singers and Hong Kong movies). TV is full of the most awful period TV soap operas. There's no sexy stuff going on like in Japan.
I am also suspicious of the Chinese economic miracle.
Brett , I've enjoyed your Trip and your success with your Lady so far . But these two quote's , I did not like to see .
China is quite a Dull place ? You're never been to Shanghai .
You sound like you should have looked in Taiwan or Japan for a Lady , as highly you speak of those place's .
Suspicious of China's Economy ? All China need's now , is better Schools ( Universities ) so they wont have to wonder off to America or Europe for an higher Education . Ones they have established this task , they will move to be the ONLY world power on this Planet . The US is already holding the Hand out to China to be Friend's , wonder WHY ? Because ... they have what they don't and so let's be Friend's . Wasn't it the other way around some time ago ?
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Well until I visit Shanghai, then I feel that China is a dull place. Hell, even the beer is dull. Shanghai is not China. It is Shanghai. China is Wuhan, and Yichang, and countless other cities that most Westerners have never heard of. Strip out all the foreign influences and there isn't much there. Yet. It will come, but it's not there yet. The soviet communist influence will fade.
Japan is a fantastic place. It has a special place in my heart. But I am looking for a soulmate, and I do not mind where she is from. China suits me well due to the special relationship the UK has with China via Hong Kong, and the fact that there are so many Chinese students where I work.
Modern China is largely built on Western debt and investment. Can it stand on its own two feet? Can it prevent a huge implosion if civil unrest or environmental problems rise to the surface? Growing pains will come. And they will be painful.
P.S. My lady tells me China is pretty dull. Working hours need to be cut and more leisure facilities built. Oh, and Wuhan Zoo needs lick of paint and more animals. Do you know she was astonished that I had taken BLUE toilet paper with me from England. "Here only white" as she says :angel:.
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Brett
If you must make sweeping generalisations about China's economic credentials, it would help the Bros here if you did a bit of research and got it right.
China has NOT built its commercial success on Foreign Debt and Capital..in fact it is the biggest buyer of US Treasury Bonds on the planet...and indeed America is so heavily into debt with China it is alsmost embarrasing. Its capital projects are all self-funded from cash flow.....not like our economies, funded from debt.
Secondly, the Economic expansion they have experienced over the past 10 years is easily sustainable due to the huge population....generally speaking a zero base expansion for China just to maintain the status quo will be about 8 % per annum...forever !!...compare that to most modern Western Economies.
Lastly..the lack of a mindless, frenetic bar culture for some people would be a big positive...they have not blindly followed the meaningless existence that is now the norm in so many western societies.
So they have huge punishments for crime...Hooray !!! more of it !!!
So they regard uncontrolled debt as sinister...well done !!!
China will easily stand on its own feet for the long haul. There may well be some future uncertainties about how exactly a Communist type society can evolve over the next medium term...but never underestimate the Chinese will or the Chinese intelligence...they of all people can make it work.
China is not dull...it is ancient and cultured...so different to what we know in the West.
DavidE
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Brett
If you must make sweeping generalisations about China's economic credentials, it would help the Bros here if you did a bit of research and got it right.
China has NOT built its commercial success on Foreign Debt and Capital..in fact it is the biggest buyer of US Treasury Bonds on the planet...and indeed America is so heavily into debt with China it is alsmost embarrasing. Its capital projects are all self-funded from cash flow.....not like our economies, funded from debt.
Secondly, the Economic expansion they have experienced over the past 10 years is easily sustainable due to the huge population....generally speaking a zero base expansion for China just to maintain the status quo will be about 8 % per annum...forever !!...compare that to most modern Western Economies.
Lastly..the lack of a mindless, frenetic bar culture for some people would be a big positive...they have not blindly followed the meaningless existence that is now the norm in so many western societies.
So they have huge punishments for crime...Hooray !!! more of it !!!
So they regard uncontrolled debt as sinister...well done !!!
China will easily stand on its own feet for the long haul. There may well be some future uncertainties about how exactly a Communist type society can evolve over the next medium term...but never underestimate the Chinese will or the Chinese intelligence...they of all people can make it work.
China is not dull...it is ancient and cultured...so different to what we know in the West.
DavidE
Well said DavidE I agree.
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Well said David E , most Chinese have not moved far from their home cities and families , so they have not seen the growing areas , and semi to modern cities Ie ; Changsha , Chongqing , Shanghai ,Beijing etc,etc , we in Australia know we live in a positive growth land like China , there are many areas in China ie; Behai that have very clean air and I would look at this area as being similar to Albany in W A or Coffs Harbour in N S W , Most ECU countries that have experienced monetary problems over the last 12 months , have turned to China to bail them out , and they are very self sufficient , regards Ying and Robert .
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Yes we are planning on visiting Macau when we visit HK.
What sort of visa will you have Brett. To visit Hong kong is one entry back and to visit Macau is a second?
Willy
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Hi Willy,
My lady will meet me in Hong Kong so I won't need a China visa this time. I do have a multi-visit one so maybe we could visit Shenzen. But my lady wants to visit HK, she's been all over China but has never been abroad. Macau would be a good side visit as I didn't go there last time, I guess we could stay there overnight. I'm not a gambler so not interested in the casinos but I expect we could have a fantastic time going daft photo poses in front of Portuguese buildings.
Anyway, to bring this thread back on topic, time for a lady update. Today Miss Wu is QQ'ing me about having children. Wow, I am scared!!!!
We have exchanged a couple of EMFs about our recent meeting. My lady thinks I'm not exactly how she imagined. The take home message is that personality is hard to determine on MSN + webcam. We have a few things to work on. I need to remember she is young and likes doing a lot of stuff. I need to keep her entertained. Wow, maybe I was a little too relaxed when I was with her. She needs to remember that I've lived away from home since I was 18. I have a mortgage and other responsibilities. There is nobody to bale me out if things go wrong. I have stuff to worry about. We are still a good match though.
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C'mon Brett your lady is 30 I believe.
That is considered old in Chinese terms to still be single. She wants to be married and have children. Children not a child, children. That means that she is going to be content in staying at home and building a family. I guarantee that once married she will not want to be going out every night or need to be entertained. When she eventually gets to England after the initial tour of places of interest her main interest will be in making her husband very comfortable in what to her will be a new home.
Although not married yet I am experiencing enormous pleasure of being pampered in every way possible so i know what you have to look forward to.
Although she is younger than you my opinion is that you must stop thinking of her as a young niave girl with western standards and aspirations and start thinking of her for what she is, a pretty Chinese Lady, with chinese standards and aspirations who really wants to marry and be a good wife for a husband that does not treat her badly. And she is someone who for some reason has not found a possible chinese husband by the time she was 30 and, like many others before her, has had to look elsewhere for a prospect. As for you living away from home since 18 she may well have been looking after herself since she was 15 or less. These are very capable girls who become extremely capable women.
Maybe I have been a bit too blunt with this message but that is my opinion on what is a suprisingly cool evening here.
How did you get a multi entry visa in the UK?
Willy
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Hi Willy,
My girl is a bit of a dreamer and a princess (dreaming of a white wedding in England etc.) and because she lives at home her parents do a lot for her (like cooking most of her meals). I don't think she realises the hard road that lies ahead with regards to visas, immigration etc.
On the other hand however, that biological clock is ticking...
Now that we know we're a pretty good match we can start making long term plans. Today on QQ she asked me about babies, which is a good sign. She is starting to think about important stuff.
I guess it is sad that she hasn't found a good Chinese man yet. But the sad fact is that in Western Hubei pretty much every lady has a perfect figure and there are many women who are simply some of the finest creatures on the entire planet. I guess wealthy men like her boss can have a house by the river, a doting wife and as many beautiful mistresses as he can handle :icon_cool:.
Actually my visa was a double entry lol.
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Brett,
There is no such thing as a 30 year old Naive Chinese lady, They can't afford to be!! and i'm not talking about in monetary terms, but that does come into it.
As Willy pointed out, she is NOT young and even more so in Chinese terms. She is a woman in her own right. Sure she likes doing exciting things right now, but she will gladly give what you call her high life up, as and when she becomes a wife.
You keep comparing Hong Kong to China's Mainland, they are completely different my friend, and it has nothing to do with being Cantonese, but everything to do with being under the influence of British rule for 100 years..... It was prospering long before the up-turn of China. It had, and probably still has, the most successful freeport in the world. It was the main gateway to China's foreign currency during there closed door period....
Willy, ....Brit's don't need a visa to enter HK, it's a Special region, i am pretty sure that goes for Macau too.... But if he crosses over to Mainland China, he will need that second entry on his Visa!!
David.....
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Willy, ....Brit's don't need a visa to enter HK, it's a Special region, i am pretty sure that goes for Macau too.... But if he crosses over to Mainland China, he will need that second entry on his Visa!!
David.....
Yes I was aware. I thought he was taking the trip from China to each of these places and then returning to China. I like travelling from China to Hong Kong. There is always a great long queue at immigrations, but for 60 years olds like me there is never a queue. Only benefit of reaching this age.
Willy
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Wow, 15 pages on my thread already. I guess it could be 1500 by the time this epic saga has run its course. Brothers, this is not an easy thing to do.
Anyway, today I am writing another EMF to my lady. I still have some doubts about her sincerity. I need to be more certain. I don't want to end up with a wife who spends all day and night QQ'ing her friends back in China.
Today I learnt that her salary is only 1000RMB a month. This is small change to me, and I could easily expand my small business to pay her a salary. This has caused me to re-evaluate things substantially. My goodness if a Westerner turned up at my doorstep I think I would be a lot more affectionate towards him than my lady was to me. This makes me a little suspicious. On the other hand, she may have no idea how much more Westerners get paid. I certainly got that impression on QQ today. She may also be a girl with a very good moral upbringing, in which case she is excellent wife material. And she has had limited experience with men, so perhaps I am just misreading her signals. She is a lot more affectionate on QQ than in real life, so perhaps she is just shy about these things. Wow, reserved English guy and traditional Chinese girl is a tricky combination at times.
I also am unsure whether she really loves me. Is it even important? I spent a good amount of time today looking for websites in order to find out if it is possible to determine if a woman loves you. That is not an easy thing to determine. When we were together she was concerned about my health. And she brought me breakfast a couple of mornings. Both good things. I met her parents, which is an excellent sign from the Chinese perspective. And now she is talking about babies. Am I being paranoid by not taking all this as excellent? I am less sure about her body language. I certainly made her smile. But with her limited English it was very difficult to invoke other emotions.
I know that my fellow brothers think the world of Chinese ladies and their organisational/pampering skills. But as soon as I saw my lady's profile I realised she was a little different to the other ladies on chnlove. So far I have been proven right. She is very geeky (so a perfect match for me), and she isn't that great at organising things. I had a nightmare organising my trip to see her. And I thought it was hysterical that we got on the wrong tourbus for the 3 Gorges Dam trip, so we had to sprint a quarter of a mile to get back to the right bus. That's my girl!!!
Mr Confused :s
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My goodness if a Westerner turned up at my doorstep I think I would be a lot more affectionate towards him than my lady was to me.
Remind me never to turn up at your doorstep . . . *laughs*
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It is easy to find out if a Woman loves you.......just ask her !!!!
Other than that, if you want to find somewhere on the Internet to answer this "impossible" question, maybe you can try Susan Miller's Astrology Zone...good as anything else I can suggest !!!
DavidE
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I think some, more traditionally raised ladies may have different expectations of men than we are used to. It's quite possible that she was waiting for you to MAN UP and be the one to lead the intimacy. She might even feel that it would be too forward of her to instigate affection. I might be totally off base here too Brett. I don't want to assume anything just from what I've read - you were the one that was there. You're in a difficult situation now, to guess about her ability to be affectionate when you're so far away. It's something you won't know for sure until you meet again.
I also think that your lady's disorganization is a great opportunity for you to take charge and lead her. Take advantage of that. It is really wonderful to know your place in a relationship, to have no doubts and to understand her strengths and weaknesses.
Everyone expresses love in a different way. Nina loves me and I love her, but she doesn't say the words as often as I would like. But when she does, it has meaning, weight, I can feel the love behind the words and see the expression on her face backing that 100%. It's probably something you'll want to discuss with her.
By the way, you guys look great together.
*edit - I should say looked great - your pictures are gone (or is it just me?)
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Brett 24 hour rule.Your lady met you.She made sure you didn't get run over or to lost.While you were in China.She is still talking to you.All very good signs with a traditional Chineses lady.Thiere was hand holding right?Quick little smiles between the to of you.
If yes to any of the above it's all good right now just.Just keep doing what your doing.If she didn't like you or want to be with you.There was nothing stopping her from leaving you setting in the hotel by yourself.(Yes I seen this happen to a guy in China.But he did deserve it).
It's ok for now Brett just relax and enjoy the ride.Your only about a quarter of the way there.It will get better as time goes.She will get more used to your customs and culture.And then watch out they ussually have no problem expressing themselves
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She brought you to see her parents, she discusses babies with you..eh what was the question again ?
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Brett,
You would do well, to Listen to what Neil's saying to you....
David....
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Brett, I had to be the one initiating the intimacy. She grabbed my arm and stayed close, We held hands but that was it. The first week we didnt even really kiss. Just a peck on the cheek type of thing. Once I asked her why no other, she said that was saved for her husband and she had to be sure she loved me and I loved her. But once that was done, I proposed and the flood gates opened. we were engaged and she said she now considered me her husband. This is more of a traditional lady. Sounds like yours is also. She wants to be sure of you and her feelings. As Maxx said all good. Every woman is different and every woman is the same. In finding out if she loves you, first tell her how you feel. If you love her tell her so. "Wo ai ni" To remember that, wall eye knee. That is how i first remembered it anyway. Chinese women are shy with intimacy especially in public. Even now If I went to kiss my wife in public, she mostly turned her cheek to me. Completely different when we are alone. Usually the women take your arm first then they start to get closer to you. Once they are right up against you, then the hand holding can start. That is my experience anyway and a few others that i know. Good luck brother.
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Brett,
You do NOT want to know what the old Willy would have done in your situation!!!!
But the new homely Willy will tell you that probably your lady is sitting at work here now thinking, 'does he really love me - i was longing for a kiss but it never came. I wanted him to hold me - to show that he loved me but it did not happen'
Ok so like all Chinese ladies she is not going to want to be shown to much intimacy in public but they need a sign. My lady who is not slow to put my arm around her neck in the street will, if we are at home and someone else is in the apartment, maybe in a different room, she will always look twice before giving me a quick kiss.
Saying the words is one thing - showing her that you mean them is another.
Willy
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Thanks guys, there is a lot of useful information here.
I guess that we are wrong to think that all Chinese ladies are the same. They're not.
We could have done with a lot more time together, but it's a huge sacrifice for her to take a day off from her job.
I think a lot of it is due to shyness as well, both of us are a lot more bold on QQ!
I guess in all honesty I would have been better off with a slightly older divorced lady. But my lady and I are such a good match that I think we should continue to work at it :icon_cheesygrin:.
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Glad to hear that brett...:icon_biggrin:
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Wow, time for another update in my epic story.
My lady has sent me another EMF. I am not at all happy :@.
First of all my lady is insisting on coming to the UK to get married on a fiance visa. I find this a little strange, as it would be hard for us to get her parents to attend the wedding. What traditional Chinese woman would not want her parents to attend the most important day in her life? I am also unhappy with this idea, as there is the chance of more legal problems for me. If she disppeared while in my care then I could kiss goodbye the chance of ever finding another overseas wife. And a UK registered marriage would carry much more weight in a divorce court (no question, I'm getting a prenup.) Getting married over here would also be costly, and as the bride's family traditionally pays I guess it's all down to me. Finally I'm not religious, so a church wedding would be out of the question given that I'm Catholic and I assume I'd have to attend church to get married in one.
Secondly, my lady wants an iPhone for her birthday. I guess this is a reasonable request as her old phone is knackered. But it's still a lot of money. To be honest I am still shocked that she got me to buy a 700RMB coat for her while we were together. Yes the coat was lovely, and I did tell her I'd take her shopping, but this set a lot of alarm bells ringing, especially since I discovered she only earns 1000RMB a month. What sensible, frugal Chinese woman would spend nearly a month's wages on a coat? Yes I know women are expensive, but I am starting to feel she is taking advantage of me.
I guess I am tough on my lady, but I have worked extraordinarily hard to get where I am and I am not going to throw it all away over a silly girl.
Having met her, I think she is a great girl. Finishing with her would be very hard. But my ultimate goal is to find a good wife. I am not yet convinced this is a good woman.
I will definately be obeying the 24 hour rule my EMF response to this! It is time for me to stop being in awe of this woman and show some backbone.
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Well Brett, what happened to the photo's you posted on this thread??
So what's the reason for deleting them???
David....
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She's got a foreign boyfriend/fiance, but (apparently) no ring on her finger as proof. You make over 4x her salary and you're bitching about spending ($100 Canadian) on a coat?
On the other hand, you're still communicating through EMF? What makes you think it's not the translator fishing for things?
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Well £70 isn't a lot for me. But it is an incredible amount in China given how cheap clothes generally are out there. Given the dire state of the UK economy do I need a woman who is that extravagant with money? You guys have told me how good Chinese women are with money but I have not seen that from my lady at all (well apart from stealing the hotel toothbrushes).
Yes we are using EMFs for important stuff. We have an excellent translator and stuff is usually confirmed on QQ.
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Ronan or Rob,
Please go over to Brett's house and give him a swift kick in the pants!!! Good grief Brett you are overreacting to everything. You are all over the place and without focus with her. You need to get your emotions under control. I can't even imagine what you are going to be like when the real problems hit.
Stop over analyzing and looking for problems under every rock.
Look; Marriage in the UK? Not a problem. Does not want parents there? Frugal. Wants to marry in a church? The wedding is all about her not you. You will get the ultimate prize here. HER!!! She was planning the wedding long before she met you. This is her dream and you are about to spoil it. Her parents pay for the wedding? You better re-read some of the threads.
She wants and I-Phone? Well so do I. She wants babies? Normal.
If you aren't careful you will spend the rest of your life wondering how it could have been. Give it up you are not going to be the first man to do this on the cheap. Not going to happen. She is not being extravigant. Again go back and read. She does not even begin to approach some of the gold diggers we've heard about.
One thing I will agree with. She is about to get you. She is about to get you very happy if you will let her.
Shaun
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Thanks Shaun. Keep the comments coming everyone. I am observing the 96 hour rule on this. Actually re-reading my lady's EMF it doesn't sound quite so bad. But my male intuition is still suspicious about her. My next EMF is going to be very tough reading for her. But I am looking for the woman who might be the mother of my children. I need to see beyond the fluffy romantic stuff and make sure I am doing the right thing for both of us.
My well travelled cynical friend is right. As wealthy western men we are totally in the driving seat and we must have the final say on anything to do with these women :icon_cool:.
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Geez brett remember its a two way street you saying you must have the final say on anything to do with (these women) not really nice way of putting things is it,im really lost with the way you talk about them and you saying about the bloody coat come on man its not like she asked you for the earth is it,if it was me i would not eaven given a scond thought.I understand you dont want to be taken for a ride but give her a bit of room to move.
my male intuition is still suspicious about her give her a chance brett i mean to say was you like this with a brit girl prob not so cut her some slack.
ps shaun and neil are spot on in what they say.
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Well I need to think about my latest EMF. A lot. I am being pulled in two directions. On the one hand, she is a great girl and I do love her. On the other hand, red flags are being raised and I have to be suspicious. Wanting to get married without her doting parents present, well of course that is strange. I guess the actual ceremony doesn't mean so much to the Chinese as it does to us, but I'm sure they would still like to be present. And I was rather looking forward to our Chinese wedding! We're unlikely to be able to marry in a church in the UK.
Yes it would break my heart and hers to end the relationship. But there are many women out there, and I want my wife to love me for who I am, and not for my wallet and Western passport. We need to build some serious trust in this relationship.
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Well I need to think about my latest EMF. A lot. I am being pulled in two directions. On the one hand, she is a great girl and I do love her. On the other hand, red flags are being raised and I have to be suspicious. Wanting to get married without her doting parents present, well of course that is strange. I guess the actual ceremony doesn't mean so much to the Chinese as it does to us, but I'm sure they would still like to be present. And I was rather looking forward to our Chinese wedding! We're unlikely to be able to marry in a church in the UK.
Yes it would break my heart and hers to end the relationship. But there are many women out there, and I want my wife to love me for who I am, and not for my wallet and Western passport. We need to build some serious trust in this relationship.
Brett,
Those red flags you are seeing are not what they think they are. I think you are obsessing over things that do not exist. Back off and take it slow.
I think you got home, rested a little, and then realized this went way too fast for you, but generally with what I am seeing this is the way it happens. I think you are scared and you do not know what to do. That is why I am saying slow down. Take a few breaths.
You need to work one issue at a time. If you are not ready to spend money on something just say I am not ready to do that. If you are concerned about marrying in UK then discuss it slowly with her. Talk about one stumbling block and the look for something positive about what she is looking for.
Shaun
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Brett,
Trust is so very important. If you dont trust her then it wont work and you will be questioning every thing that happens. Go back and re read a lot of these threads about Chinese customs and weddings. Every woman is the same and every woman is different. The actual wedding ceremony is not a big deal to Chinese women, the wedding dinner is. It is not unusual for a Chinese woman to NOT have her parents there at the wedding ceremony . I am sure she has probably only read about ceremonies in the UK or USA and would like to experience it. She will probably want a wedding dinner the next time after she goes home after you are married. The custom in China is that the groom pays for everything. So be prepared for that. If she only asked for a coat, that is not using you. There are also the red envelopes to deal with. If you do not know what that is, go back and read the threads about it. There are at least 2 large ones i know about. One started with me. That almost caused me to break up with my then fiancee. You also need to learn more about Chinese customs. I say again please go back and re read the threads about marriage and the ladies. You know her better than any of us so only you can make the decision about what is going on, but this so far is not unusual at all. You told her you would take her shopping, as far as I know every man that has gone there has done that. A 700 RMB coat is not that unusual.
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Brett it is time for the tough love speech.You need to get the hell out of your own head.All you are doing is messing yourself up and over thinking this.Your going to crash and burn.Before you even know what the hell hit you.Come on man you strike me as a smart guy.I followed your trip posts.You were doing just fine.Your trip thread was well written well thought out.But when you comeback home.You think of these kind of things.
Your lady is probably going to want to have a party with her parents in China.And do the real thing in the U.K. like me and my wife did.Chinese customs yes the groom pays for everything to have to do with the wedding.You will probably get all the money back from the red envelopes.If not don't worry about it.My wife's family has helped us so much.That it is probably me that owes them money.
Are last trip to China.We payed for the plane tickets.Visas for me and are son.And maybe a couple of meals.And a couple of days stay in the hotel in Zhuhai.Oh and one of the tourist attractions I wanted to go to in Beijing.The stay in JiuJiang was payed for.The train tickets,Hotel,Tourist attractions.In Beijing were payed for by my brother inlaw and his friends and some of my wife's cousins.Hell it almost turned into a fist fight with the cousins in Beijing when they wouldn't let me pay for the meal at there restaurant.My in laws watched are son for five days while we were playing around in Beijing.They wouldn't take nothing for payment.When we returned from Beijing.
Brett anything you spend now will come back to you.As long as you take care of there daughter.So stop worrying about this little stuff.If your out 100.00 dollars for a coat.I would feel very lucky.If she wants a party in China and then wants a wedding in the U.k.It's all good.You bring her to the U.K. she isn't going to run off on you.Who does she know in the U.K? how good is she with the queens English?
Brett what the other members wrote here is right on.There is no red flags.Just relax and enjoy the adventure.Allot of these guys really wish that their first trip to China went as well as yours.You have plenty of time to plan this and work threw your issues.So I would suggest.That you take the time and learn some history culture.And learn a little bit of how your lady thinks.This isn't hard. until you make it hard.
Maxx
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Maxx He is absolutely right, China's woman pure and simple ideas of sincerity, This is the way in China, less experienced, the West has already experienced , it required less.:fi_lone_ranger:
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If I was you Brett I would make some checks with the Home Office/UK Border force because I do not believe getting a fiancee visa for the UK is very easy. In the US and Canada I believe they are but not for Chinese or Africans.
Of course they option is on the their website and they tell you they treat every nationality the same but they do not.
Some of the guys on here are acting a bit like Agency translators and seem to be pushing you for a decision - but that is yours to make after you consider everything you know about the situation - and you know more about that than anyone else.
To be honest with what you said so far I would probably be having the same thoughts as you right now.
I think I had better PM you privately.
Willy
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Oh, come on Willy? We wanna see!!!!! :icon_cheesygrin:
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Oh, come on Willy? We wanna see!!!!! :icon_cheesygrin:
Maybe when the dust has settled.
Willy
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Hi guys,
Well I am still observing my 96 hour rule. But my heart says yes and my head says no. Am I paranoid? Am I overanalysing? Maybe. But something is not right and it needs to be resolved.
Yes I am very new at relationships. Some things I found natural, but others I do not. Some signals I could read easily, others not so easily.
Guys, this is more about coats and iPhones and stuff. Only I have met my lady. Only I know all the facts. Only I can make this decision. I have to question if I want to be with a lady who is uncomfortable with my putting her arm around her waist in a KTV bar. A woman who spends most of our precious afternoon together talking to her friends on QQ. Yes we had a good time together. Yes she bought me a cake and took me to meet her parents. But I still have doubts.
My lady has clearly tested me by buying the coat. I feel that I need to test our relationship. This morning I have told her via QQ that I have doubts. I will write a tough EMF. If we truly love each other then all will be well.
I now know that a terrible decision I made was not taking a human translator to meet the parents. That would have been very useful indeed. Unfortunately my lady's agency is not in the same province, so that was a great shame.
I must say though that come on guys, I am still only 37 (my lady is nearly 30). I am naive about relationships, average looking but fairly wealthy for a man of my age. I am extremely vulnerable to the wrong sorts of women. There are nearly 8000 ladies on chnlove. I have all the time in the world to find a good wife. Men get more valuable as they get older, women lose their looks. Time is on my side. This is tough but it is the truth. Yes we would make a great couple. But who's to say I wouldn't have as great a life if I chose Xia the shopkeeper, or Sherry the teacher?
Willy: thanks for the PM!
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God brett...HAVE you EVER read anything in Chnlove or through the forums...
Gheesus wept...!!!!
You were told (or surely read) that that the ladies do not like being intimate in public, this I presume would include the Streets and Bars. The married guys will testify to this (kissing, holding hands, affection) IS NOT part of their culture (Much) in public. And your NOT sure of her because she did not like your arm around her waist or because she spoke on her cell phone. Surely you've read about cell phones and them too???
You mention "this is more about coats and iphones and stuff"...What did you expect to be spending your money on, TEA in the afternoon???
For me, I think it's your inexperience that's getting to you. I think you went there, NOT too sure of this lady, saw what else is available and thought wow. You seem to always mention that you kept looking at the other ladies.
As far as I KNOW (because I READ it somewhere lol) if the lady takes you to meet her parents, then your IT. So stop analyzing and being paranoid.
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Brett
Those of us on this Forum who are still looking for that special lady would be sooooo happy to have her to buy a coat for !!!
How can such a thing be a show-stopper...it is nice to buy presents for your beloved...thats what Guys do !
You said several times here that you "love this Woman"...how did that suddenly disappear ?? Or do you now think that it was not love..or it was some other emotion ?
Brett, we are all vulnerable to the wrong relationship...doesnt matter about age or status. And we can all keep flitting from flower to flower looking for the impossible dream....I think the modern Western word is "committment phobia "
But of course, only you can make the final call with you and Ms XXXXXX
But dont keep her hanging on a string, dont make her life impossibly miserable by demanding this, that and the other in an EMF...be a bit gentle with her, she is also a Woman who has never married and would also have some difficulty with relationships...especially with something so scary as Man from the West.
She has created a vision in her mind, maybe for many years as to what she percieves as her Prince, and how they will get married in this Fairy Tale...and what's wrong with that. ?
Dont shatter this lady.......or , as we say in Aus..."piss or get off the pot"
Relax, give it a little time, get to know her more and understand where SHE is coming from...or cut it quick and MOVE ON. She deserves at least that.
DavidE
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Kissing in public Rob, you are right there. But for the rest - not sure you are right.
Holding hands in street and in public - always put a hand in mine - causes a problem with some strangers though - they wonder why this foreigner has taken hold of their hand like the lady buying soap powder in the supermarket whose hand I took thinking it was my my girl behind me!!! lucky she just hurried away from the mad foreigner.
Arms around each other - thats ok. None have had a problem with that when inside premises such as restuarants clubs etc. even in the street.
Visiting parents - do not count on that as a plus - two women took me to meet their parents and of the two I ended up without either.
I draw the line about buying things when they instigate the suggestion. If you had a girlfriend in UK would you buy her a £600 plus coat? - the equivalent in China, when she has made no commitment. Yes I would be expecting to be spending money on tea - getting to know her better, not buying an iphone so she can spend more time on QQ and ignoring me.
I personally think Brett is being careful and may well have good cause to be.
But as he said he is young and he still has a lot to learn - my God I wish I was that age again.
Maybe he should not publish so much personal stuff on this forum nfor us to all pick holes in.
He knows my thoughts on this.
Willy
David and the others
Brett has said it is not a question about the coat and other things she wanted. Read his messages from the start. From what he says he would like her to be with him BUT does she really want him. That seems to be his quandry. And it would be mine too in his position.
I was in the same place myself and it fell through and I am seeing a parallel between my experience and his.
Give him some air gents.
Willy
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Brett,
Seems to me, that you have a very high opinion of yourself and your worth!! You are completely wound up in what you want, and with little regard to what your lady wants. Well Brett it's very much a two way street when looking for a life long partnership, so if you are under any preconceived notion, that your wants are more important and come before any wants of your lady, then you'll always going to be on the losing side...
Brett, how can you say i'm ONLY 37 and your lady is ONLY 30?? I would think that is ample years under the belt (so to speak) to know what your looking for in a partner and to know how to get it!!
I can also assure you, that your lady is anything but naive!!
Most of the things your bringing up now that your home, could have been brought up and discussed and sorted out with your lady while you were there!! If you weren't happy with the lack of intimacy, that also could have been brought up and discussed. Your the man here Brett, it's was really down to you to initiate any closeness between you both, not her!! If the only places you tried to initiate closeness was in public, then more fool you, because they will not be easy with that at all, and that is something you should have known about!! If you weren't happy with her talking to her friends all the time while you were together, you should have put your foot down and told her to turn the bloody thing off, not wait till you get home and start gripping about it!!
Seems to me, that you make contradicting statements from one day to the next. Why don't you take a few days off and think about things, to come up with definitive outlook on your future, because changing your mind every few hours ain't gonna get you anywhere in this life!!
Through my observations on your threads, there have been many members that have given you, or have tried to give you lots of advise on many issues that you have brought up. To date, i don't think you have listened to a word anyone has said to you. Instead you are still asking the same questions and coming out with the same statements!! ...why??
All of us here want to help you Brett, but you also have to want to help yourself too!!! Take a few days off, and get your head straight, and come back knowing what your next move will be!!!!
David....
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Yes Willy is right. I am questioning this girl's commitment to me. That is the only major doubt that I have. And it is a gigantic one to have.
But I am right to do so. Bringing her to the UK will cost every penny I have. If I divorce her, the chances of her starting a family with somebody else are very slim. If I get in trouble with immigration then I can kiss goodbye the chance of ever finding another. We both need to be 100% committed to this. I do not want a wife who will spend all my money and talk all night to her friends on QQ. But sadly that is the impression I am starting to get.
I know that I love her, and that is what makes this especially hard. It is not a question of thinking I can find somebody better. I'm not sure that I can or even that I want to.
But her lack of affection towards me is worrying. I saw plenty of Chinese couples holding hands etc. in public. My lady was not at all bothered by being seen with a Westerner.
So something doesn't add up. Either she doesn't love me. Or she is naive and doesn't know how to show affection towards a man. Or I don't know how to give her the right signals. I need to find this out.
Rob: The KTV is a private booth, so it is not in public. I saw plenty of couples holding hands in public, so this is an urban myth. She was QQ'ing from my PC not her phone. I am not convinced by the parents approval thing - what if they are pressurising her into something she doesn't want? How do I even know what they think about me - they don't speak a word of English.
My EMF will be hard on her. But if she is not committed to this then I have to end it quickly.
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Hmm, I am thinking. I am still in the 24 hour period. My EMF remains unsent. My lady's idea of a fiancee visa is an excellent one. I will get her over here. We can then take things slowly and really decide if we are really right for each other :fi_lone_ranger:. Thanks for all the various comments though, this is a big thing to do and nobody said it was going to be easy.
I have now sent my EMF. I have decided my lady doesn't need to know too much about my concerns. We need to spend much more time together, QQ and Skype is not good enough. We will apply for a fiancee visa as that is the only thing that will give us long enough to decide about each other.
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:huh::huh::huh::huh::huh::huh::huh::huh::huh::huh:
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Brett, You say you do love her. How can you have true love without trust? I can really understand a little doubt, hell I had some myself for a while. But it all boiled down to, if i truly love her than i have to trust her. I can see holding hands in public, but it depends on how she was raised. My wife took my arm, that is usual for women, holding hands in public is not unusual. Especially for the younger women. They will sometimes show affection in public. The under 30 crowd. The over 30's are much more conservative and your lady fits in between, like I said it is how she was raised. She is 30 years old and doesnt have a child, her chances of marrying are pretty good, but you are right, her parents may be pressuring her. I have been told by a number of women that their parents pressured them when they hit 30. Yes it is your decision to make, we are just trying to give you the benefit of our experience as you say you have little. Good luck Brett, I hope the decision you make is the right one for you both.
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I think im as baffled as shaun,
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David5o you took the words right out of my mouth mate (Seems to me, that you have a very high opinion of yourself and your worth!! You are completely wound up in what you want, and with little regard to what your lady wants. Well Brett it's very much a two way street when looking for a life long partnership, so if you are under any preconceived notion, that your wants are more important and come before any wants of your lady, then you'll always going to be on the losing side...)
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We will apply for a fiancee visa as that is the only thing that will give us long enough to decide about each other.
Brett
I know you are getting bombarded here with masses of advice and also some puzzlement from experienced Bros as to some of the traps you may be falling into !
I am compelled to write this post based on your views about applying for a fiance visa so you can both get to know more about each other.
Your Immigration Department does NOT view the granting of a Fiance visa as a means to simply get your Lady an extended holiday in the UK.
The process you will have to go through to get such a visa is meticulous, intensive, detailed and exhausting. The paperwork is endless. They will require of you that you produce documented PROOF that your relationship is genuine and that you have a defined intent to marry within the time frame specified in the fiance visa.
The Immigration Department will want to see that the application is made from this perspective....they will assume that you have already made the decision to marry. They will get real testy if you dont convince them of that fact with photos, letters, reciepts and endorsement letters from friends and family confirming that your relationship is genuine and ongoing.
It is also going to cost you a fair bit of money. !! and will take somewhere in the order of 9 months to process. Part of this process will be the need for Ms XXX to have an interview with the local Immigration Representatives of your Country. Believe me, they will be very focussed on discovering whether your application is a genuine requirement for a marriage...or just a substitute for a Tourist visa.
Do you not think that a better way would be for you to make one or two more trips to China to establish exactly what you and Ms XXXX have between you ? I would suggest that this is the best cost option, and certainly gives you chance to get sorted out what sort of relationship you have/want/need with Ms XXX...and her with you the same.
If you go through all the mind numbing process for a Fiance visa and then conclude that you dont want to be together, then you may have burned many bridges with your Immigration Department for any future applications you may make.
This is another strategy you may wish to consider !!!
DavidE
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Hi Brett,
From the UK side this is what they need:-
Fiancé Visa
You may come to U.K as fiancé or proposed civil partner of someone, if both of you are aged 21 or over and he/she currently lives in the United Kingdom and settled there; or is returning to the United Kingdom with you to live there permanently.
You must show that:
You plan to marry or register a civil partnership within a reasonable time (usually six months);
You plan to live together permanently after you are married or have registered a civil partnership;
You have met each other;
Until you are married or have registered a civil partnership, there is somewhere for you and any dependants to live
You and any dependants can be supported without working or having to get help from public funds.
You must obtain permission to enter the United Kingdom before travelling here, even if you are a national of a country where there is normally no need for a visa to enter the United Kingdom.. It will be in the form of a visa or entry clearance certificate.
Your will need to apply for a certificate of approval of marriage from the Home Office and give notice to a registrar of your intention to marry or register your civil partnership. During this six month period you can not work in the U.K
After you have married or registered your civil partnership, you may apply to stay here. If your application is approved, you will be given permission to live and work in the U.K for two years. After two year you may apply for Permanent Residence in the U.K
I would drop these guy's an e-mail for good advice and a time scale if this is the route you are planning to take: www.uniquevisaservices.com
Good luck :icon_cheesygrin:
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Thanks guys. Things are now good between me and my lady.
The fiancee visa route looks a possibility. But the form is very long and intrusive. I am not sure if this is the best way forward, or whether we should get married in China first.
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Thanks guys. Things are now good between me and my lady.
The fiancee visa route looks a possibility. But the form is very long and intrusive. I am not sure if this is the best way forward, or whether we should get married in China first.
Brett
It is getting very confusing, trying to keep up with your Strategy and trying to give you advice.
Many Bros here have put a lot of time and effort into trying to help you. This is what we do, and its useful to know that the recipient is at least listening. Taking advice is not compulsory of course :icon_cheesygrin:
24 hours ago you were definitely unsure whether Ms XXXX was your correct choice. Now everything is Ok....you seem to fall in and out of love more often than I change my socks !!
Now you ask whether we think you should get married in China "first" because the fiance visa paperwork is a bit daunting. What exactly do you mean by "first"...and what then is "next" ?
I hope you are not under the illusion that if you marry in China then the paperwork gets easier....it sure doesn't.
There are hundreds of references here from Bros who are going through the process....fiance and spouse...from many different Countries. The common thread running through their stories is that it is costly, meticulous, time consuming, frustrating and bloody complex to bring a foreign partner into most Countries...including UK.
It matters not where you get married...it only matters that you MUST go through the process...period...no escape from it !!
Can I say as an experienced Management Consultant that if you were my client I would point out to you that you have got Strategy and Tactics mixed up...and that is highly dangerous.
Tactics are the detailed mechanisms, the whys, hows and wherefores of bringing your wife/fiance into your country.
Strategy is the decision process to completely decide between you both if you are truly in love, if you are truly committed to a long term relationship with a foreign lady...with all the tribulations and challenges that this brings...as you can read about here in droves.
You have sent so many mixed mesages about this situation...take a deep breath and get your Strategy right in your head and heart...and hers. Then start to worry about how to get the paperwork done.
If you want a trial relationship with her, then go to China and do it. If you want more time to decide between you both if you are meant to be...then go to China and find out.
When you both have answered that question...without any doubts...then decide whether spouse or fiance visa is appropriate, get a Lawyer and get on with it. Until you have that question clear...forget about any type of visa...your Immigration Department will spot a fraud or an uncertain relationship from a mile away !!
DavidE
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Well yes my lady drives me nuts at times. I guess I do the same to her. We are both young and strong willed. We both have demanding jobs. I guess we both eat too much spicy food. I am very organised, she is pretty disorganised. Our relationship isn't going to be all fluffy pillows and flowers. I do not want to marry a shrinking violet - my brother goes for those types of girls and they are not my type at all. But I am getting more convinced that my love for her is real. Yes we have had our differences, but all through this time my love for her has been undiminished.
Guys if your relationship with your Chinese lady is all lovey dovey all of the time then you are exceptionally lucky!
Unfortunately we haven't been able to talk on QQ much this week. Our agency translator seems to have gone off the boil as well, as my questions aren't being answered that well. Although my lady speaks some English (and we communicated pretty well in China), Chinese high schools do not teach the sort of English you need to talk about relationships.
I guess a meeting in Hong Kong early next year is going to be valuable, and we could get engaged there. By January we will have had a chance to talk a lot more about important things.
I am also thinking that a spouse visa would be easier to obtain than a fiancee visa. Neither are easy though as the form is long and intrusive. My lady doesn't want to get married in China, but I should hopefully be able to talk her round to the idea. I know that getting married in China is complicated, but I sure we can figure it out.
I think that we can do nothing until my lady gets a passport, so that might be the first objective.
Fortunately the 24 hour rule has saved our relationship :icon_cheesygrin:.
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Brett
I think you will find that an application for a UK visa for either a spouse or fiancee uses the same form and asks for similar documetation whichever situation your in ,ie spouse or fiancee.
David and Paul are 100 % correct in what they say about obtaining a spouse/fiancee or for that matter any type to come to the UK.
You may recall our chat last weekend on the shout box ,and I have for the other brothers info just got a 6 months visitors visa for my lady Linfang ,which took us from the applicatiion date of 28 th August until it was granted last week,approx 6 to 7 weeks.
She has got her ticket to come here for 2 months ,work commitments wont allow anymore time off, on the 22 nd of November until the 23 rd of January .
I have known Linfang since June 2008 on Chnlove,and went and spent 3 weeks with her last March . She wants us to marry when shes here ,but im not sure as yet of the criteria as shes only come here as a visitor ,ill call the registry office next week and check out the situation,if not possible while shes here ,then we will marry when i return to china next year.
We both feel with us both visiting each others respective turf ,so to speak ,its a good sounding out time to see if we can live together ,albeit not long term ,and indeed see what she thinks to life in the UK and her prospective home in the future.
Brett if you do eventually apply for which ever visa you think fit ,you need to be 100% accurate and honest with your documentation ,and supply anything which you feel will support your application ,and tell your lady not to listen to hearsay from any friends or anyone who clains to know about visas to the Uk ,Linfang was told by some local know all that she needed 50,000 RMB in her bank to be even considered for a visa !!!.
I do speak with some authority on spousal /fiancee visas as i went through the procedure for my filipina fiancee way back in 1997,and things ,it appears from the forms ,aint changed much since,back then it took 4 weeks for the visa to be granted ,
Good Luck with your lady ,whichever route you decide
Mike
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Brett you and your lady are not young - you are 37 and she is nearly 30. Young is in early 20's. She is just about past her sell by date in Chinese terms!!!
Getting married in China is simple - not complicated - just like buying a car tax. Take the right papers to the post office and you walk out with a car tax to stick on your windshield.
To get married take the right papers with the photos to the marraige office and if they are not busy you will get the little red book the same day - you are married.
I just wonder why there has been a lack of communications between you two since you returned back home!
Willy
I would drop these guy's an e-mail for good advice and a time scale if this is the route you are planning to take: www.uniquevisaservices.com
Good luck :icon_cheesygrin:
I spoke to Raj at this company yesterday - he want £1250 up front to take on a case and to see what else needs to be done!!!!!
Although a London office they are based in India. Some companies in India has a poor reputation in getting legitimate people into the UK.
Willy
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Thanks mickw.
I am still undecided about which visa to go for. My lady still lives with her parents and has a so-so job (so no great reason to return to China) - will this count against our fiancee application? Or is my financial empire given more weight?
I think a 3rd option (marrying Hong Kong, then getting a spouse visa) is also possible.
Willy - the main problem I have at the moment is that my lady is working stupid hours in her slave job so we don't have much time to talk. And the EMF translator has really gone off the boil which is frustrating. If we got engaged I would send her money instead of having her working all the time, but for her to give up her job in a bad economy is a big thing for her to do, and we would need to build more trust before she does something like that.
And yes, my lady is almost 30, but she needs a bit more maturity of the kind that you can't really get from still living with your parents :@. I sure hope she continues to wear the T shirts with the teddy bears on though :angel:.
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Brett , your lady cannot get married in Hong Kong , this was pointed out ages ago , she has to marry in her home town , which is not a ceremony , the ceremony can be at any time thereafter 1 week or 1 year , Ying and Robert .
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Are you sure about that? I was under the impression that anyone can get married in Hong Kong (provided they meet the conditions for marriage there). Anyway, it's not really an issue as I've not yet asked my lady if she wants to get married there.
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Brett , if that was so every one would be getting married there , even though it belonga China now , even Chinese have to get a certificate to travel there , but its run as you know by the Chinese for their financial benefit .
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Brett what Robert is telling you is true.Your lady will have to get married in the city town province.That she was born.
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Greetings Brothers,
Well Brett you sure seemed to have worked yourself into quite the dilemma since I have been making my move to china.
By and large I agree with the other guys. You seem to have fallen into a state of confusion. You know the story of Zhen and Brian I believe so let me give you some examples from us.
We knew we were the right one for the other very early in our emf relationship. Many guys figure this is impossible but its true for us. Our meeting in september was a total continuation of our emf relationship and we had more chemistry thatn all the top drug companies in the world combined.
I am 52 and Zhen is 42. When we were in Beijing we would hold hands or arms around each other no problem. However as soon as we went to Handan the public affection stopped. Even though she has my ring on her finger there was no public affection in Handan. All these ladies are concerned about face in public and especially in their hometowns. Affection in private was also as stated by other brothers. It was up to me to initiate any and all affection. We didnt share our first kiss until after we were engaged. Also once Zhen accepted my proposal and we were engaged she was and is totally committed to us as a family.
You are the man in the relationship and therefore the leader. You make it happen... or not. If your lady still lives at home then this is even more true. The ladyIi was well into before Zhen also lived with her family and she didnt want me to even go to china to visit until my divorce papers were in my hands beause she could not be seen to be carrying on with a married man. Thats the way they are raised and thats the way they are. You have to adjust to their way of thinking they will not adjust to yours.
As for the iphone and the coat, Zhen also makes about 2000rmb a month. I bought her a coat and also a new phone. Yes they sometimes get a little carried away at the perceived rich westerner thats taking them about town but you have to be the one to set the limits. Zhen asked me one time to buy her something for about 600 rmb and I just said no I dont think its a good deal and that was it. Limit set line drawn story over. She didnt get upset, or pout or do anything other than say ok and carry on as if nothing had happened. About ten minutes later we saw the same item for 200 rmb and I bought it for her and she was totally thrilled.
From what I have seen with Zhen is that they want a man in their life to be the head of the family. That the traditional way and they all want it. They will be the traditional wife and you will be the traditional husband. In the home its a different story and she rules like a queen and you best do as you are told hehe.
So basically I think perhaps your lady may be a bit confused as to the depth of your committment to her just as you are about hers to you. Little affection from you, little leadership in the husband role, confusion about money and spending issues etc etc. It seems you messed up your signals to her and confused hers to you, which obviously confuses her also. As for the on again off again thing I think you head is getting too wrapped up in itself. This whole marry a chinese lady business is ridiculously expensive, time consuming, paperwork ridden, bureaucratic dominated confusing, and ultimately the most satisfyingly happy journey you will ever make. But as has been said by many before its not for everyone. Peraps you are not quite ready to take this journey and thats why there is so much confusion.
If you are going down this road to find the love of your life you best take a long hard look in the mirror and ask yourself if you are ready to commit everything you are and everything you have to see it through. Because of you are not then stop now and dont hurt her or yourself any more than has been done by indecision and second guessing. As Yoda from Star Wars said " Do, or do not. There is no try". Its your decision to make but make sure you are looking yourself in the mirror when you make it and be damned sure its the right decision.
Anyway I hope you make the right decision and everything works out between the two of you.
Sincerely,
Zhen and Brian
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Well said Brian....:icon_biggrin:
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Thanks Brian.
I have been very sick recently, so most of what I wrote last week was a little crazy at times. Maybe there should be a 7 day rule for when you come back from visiting your lady.
I guess my lady and I are both a little confused. We need more time together, and more time talking on QQ. It is difficult talking to her about relationship issues though, as her knowledge of English just doesn't extend to this area. Google translations aren't usually that great and our translator is going through a bad patch. My lady also doesn't like it when I write about more intimate things in an EMF, hmm that's something that other brothers might like to bear in mind.
I am not in doubt about wanting a wife. I am clear on that. Being with my lady was great. Being here alone is not great.
My new Mandarin teacher is excellent, and she is starting to get me interested in the language. That has been the barrier to me learning Chinese, and it is gradually being dismantled.
China was very different to what I'd imagined. But I did enjoy my time there. Sichuan cooking is great, and I am now cooking it at home. I am convinced I am looking for a wife in the right country. I deal with immigration in work, so I know the pain involved.
I guess we are confused about the role of the different genders. My lady's mother is from Shanghai, and when I met them it was clear she was in charge of the family. Here the man is traditionally in charge. Hmmm, Mr Wu's role really had me puzzled.
As to the lack of affection, well we need more time together. But she bought me a lovely cake, and made sure I didn't get killed crossing the road. Obviously my lady is younger than many of the ladies talked about here. She is young and doesn't have first hand experience of having a useless first husband who gambles/whores/drinks the family finances away. I talked to divorced ladies on chnlove and they were practically begging me to come and visit them - I guess by experiencing a bad man you get to appreciate a good man a lot more.
As to the other issues, well not everything I write here goes in a EMF. My lady and I have had a good QQ session today. We did get on very well in China. I was very calm when I was with her, this is why men can buy 700RMB coats without saying a word. Really we could have done with a few more days together but she had to go back to her slave job as it was difficult enough for her to get 5 days off to meet me.
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Brett, I haven't talked straight out about intimate things to my lady. But the message got across. We kind of ended up with the code words of not leaving the hotel for a few days. We both know what that meant. She even popped up with it on the phone (jokingly). So I know it's not something lost to the translator.
I think it depends on the woman. I've had some say straight out intimate things and others that give no reply at all.
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Yes Vince it does depend on the lady (and whether the translator is adding fluff). I have tried being a bit indirect, but you just wonder if it's getting translated at the other end.
Talking about important stuff on QQ is a nightmare. So it's easier to talk about fruit or the weather or how boring our jobs are.
But the ladies who wanted to get intimate on the 2nd EMF, well I found them a bit scary to be honest :s.
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But the ladies who wanted to get intimate on the 2nd EMF, well I found them a bit scary to be honest
I understand that. It's like what is up with this? What am I "hooking" up with?
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Brett , your biggest problem seems to be the Language Barrier with your Lady . Now this , will call for both of you to be MORE patient with each other . You are doing your part to further this Relationship , by taking Chinese classes . Now if your Lady does the same for you with English classes ( her time permitting ) , then you are well on the way .. to make this work . Both of you are still young , so no need to rush it . Use this apart time to really get to know her well and by the time your Communication get better , then you talk about where to marry . Until then , keep each other close and in a Loving spirit all the time . Ones you two overcome this very difficult part , the rest will be sooo much easier . But it requires both your's and her's 100 % commitment , that will show .. if it's going to work .
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Actually the biggest problem we have is lack of time. I work full time and have a lot of side projects, she works 50 hours a week in her slave job. My lady really does appear to have a talent for English though, despite no formal tuition except at high school. She also found Cantonese very easy to learn, and knows several Mandarin dialects. We communicated pretty well when we were together. The only problem is that there are whole gaps in her English knowledge. Like for example she doesn't know the word "popular". I found it incredibly hard to explain it to her, because I couldn't think of a single synonym.
My Mandarin teacher thinks I have great potential, but again learning it is a huge commitment and my time is valuable. I am starting to remember a lot of hanzi characters though which is encouraging.
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That's funny , my Wife alway's uses Superstar for the word Popular . You bet I don't mind that .:icon_cheesygrin::icon_cheesygrin:
I see Brett , not enough Hour's in a day . The time difference and one has to get some sleep too . Makes one think , what we go through for a GOOD wife ? Just hang with it , you'll be alright .
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Yes I am beginning to realise there are a whole load of words the Chinese don't have. Like I wondered why my lady didn't know the words kitten or puppy. Then I realised that in China a kitten is simply a "small cat", ??.
The time difference is certainly a problem, I start work an hour before she leaves work, and when I'm home in the evening she's fast asleep.
I expect this thread will get to page 2100 before we're finally together :icon_cheesygrin:.
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My lady knows the word "Popular" she had said it practicing her english on the phone. (she wants to hear how I say it). At first I had no idea what word she was saying. I had her spell it, then once I said the word she remembered it (other phone calls). It's good and funny at the same time hearing her work out larger words. "situation" "propose" and "purpose" which she pronounced Purple? But, hey! she's trying?
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Brett,
It is good to see you landing you your feet now. I was concerned about you for a while.
Patience is a virtue when it comes to working on these relationships. It has taken me a long time to get to that even though I am not at the point I need to be yet I do recognize that. The 24 hour rule comes from the experience of many mistakes I imagine. I find it takes much longer to work through issues though. The most important issue with the 24 hour rule is that once your anger dies down you will be more able to listen. (Maxx, am I right?)
I don't know at this point if I will be able to work through the issues that I am dealing with but I keep telling myself patience. This is something you will need to repeat to yourself over and over and over again. Another phrase that comes to mind is hurry up and wait.
The problem here is, and this is only my limited understanding, is that the Chinese people are very patient and can wait while western people are too impatient and want it now. I know I am that way.
Take a look at a few people who are successful on this site; Arnold, JimB, mpo4746 aka Mike, Maxx, Rhonald, Neil, Paul, David5o, and now Brian. They all are quite calm, focused, and none of this happens overnight. I know I missed a few of you; sorry.
Brett as I am telling you this I am saying it to myself also as I need a constant reminding of it. It is like the old joke, "How do you eat and elephant? One bite at a time." Building a relationship with a woman in China takes one step at a time. This is helping me to become more methodical about what I am doing. I generally fly by the seat of my pants. You can make it with Ms. Wu but it will take time and a tremendous amount of patience.
I do think you have one thing right when I look at your most recent post. It is OK to vent here but talk calmly with her. Just realize when you vent here everyone reads it and will generally have a comment on it. If you can't take it then you should not vent. My wake up moment on that issue was when Buzz said, "didn't you just have a melt down on that last week?" Buzz if you are reading this is not a complaint. It was one of those wake up moments.
Brett the last thing I will say to you is to listen to what she is saying and what she is not saying. She has an agenda too and it is in the blending of your two agenda's, not in the impatient demanding, that your happiness will be found.
I think now you are at a place where you can move forward with Ms. Wu.
Shaun
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Thanks a lot Shaun for mentioning me as one of the successful, patient people. I've been feeling decidedly impatient lately. Nina is working hard and studying hard and has little time to chat or even reply to emails lately. It's difficult sometimes, but you're right, once she has decided that things are a go, nothing will change that, especially time. I've had an email partially written here on my desktop for 2 days now. We've chatted twice since I started writing it and I've changed my mind on what to write more than a few times. Maxx's 24 hour rule on steroids.
Brett, Shaun's absolutely right. Just try to understand where your lady's head is at by asking questions, but most importantly, listen to the answers. The difficult part is deciphering the translations sometimes. Don't jump to conclusions too quickly either.
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Greetings Brothers,
Shaun, well said brother!! Thats about as clear as it can be said and it shows your journey from where you were to where you want to be is progressing nicely. If we all could be as wise as you and see our own journey so clearly we would all be better people.
My respects to you Shaun, great insight!!
Regards,
Zhen and Brian
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That was great shawn, remember to be a good fisherman you must be patent, and have heart. Listen to what she has to say and all will be well and progress nicely. Keep in mind that this is for the rest of your life, so just wait and if it was meant to be, it will happen. The good lord looks after us all.
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Shaun your right.I came up with the 24 hour rule.After I didn't understand what my wife was trying to tell me.On more then one occasion.And every time I opened my mouth to say something to her.I just made it worse.
So one day after a huge argument on Skype.With my wife. I told myself that I wouldn't get drawn into any more arguments
with her.I would give myself 24 hours to calm down and think about it.Give myself a chance to look for the answer on line.And it seemed to work for me.
When I started all of this there was no place where you could go on the internet to look for answers.There was the Chnlove forum.And I read it but at the time it was a bigger joke.Then it is now.Everybody on there was just guessing.Or they were just plane wrong.So I had to wing it.And make the rules up as I went along.
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Shaun - yet I think patience with Chinese women is important, and perhaps we brothers need to have a better awareness of it. I need to bring the extreme patience I use with other aspects of my life (like stock investing) to my relationship.
And yes you are right, I meltdown here on occasions, but due to the 24 hour rule my EMFs are calm and considered. I am even more calm when I am with her in person, and I never even said a word during the wrong tourbus catastrophe.
Anyway, time for another update. Hmm, as you might expect, not much is happening. I am doing my boring job, my lady is doing hers. Sometimes we talk on QQ. My lady has got her hair permed. I love it when it is straight. It is my lady's birthday soon. I sent her some money, but she would have preferred a gift. This is something for the brothers to bear in mind! But the postal service is on strike here, and I had to post something as soon as I got back from Wuhan. Actually I find it encouraging that she isn't after my money.
I sent her an EMF about various marriage/visa options, so she is going to talk it over with her parents.
She thinks we need to learn more about each other's cultures. I am finding it difficult to learn about her Chinese culture. My lady is not at all like the Chinese people I was reading about in my Chinese culture book. She doesn't seem to be superstitious. There wasn't much stigma about the No. 4 in Hubei as there is in Hong Kong.
Talking on QQ about important things is still difficult, so I mainly stick to asking about weather, fruit, and her plans for the evening. I am now doing my Mandarin course and I am starting to make some progress. Coincidentally my teacher is from Wuhan so I can ask her about my lady's province. I am getting good at remembering hanzi characters. I can't yet remember them well enough to write them down. Given I use a computer for most things I don't know if I ever will need to be able to write them. But something is changing in my brain that allows me to recognise them.
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Brett,
You don't seem to value what you have got, from what I read, esp around posts # 140 plus till almost #200!:icon_wink:
Thanks for sharing your journey her with us...
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Personally, I'm sick of the postal service in China. I sent a set of English language CD's over a month ago. It's lost in the ether somewhere. Nina figures I mailed it via the moon.
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... Nina figures I mailed it via the moon.
ROFLMAO :icon_cheesygrin::icon_cheesygrin:
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Well Neil , at least you didn't have to Vacuum seal them going that Route . :icon_cheesygrin:
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Personally, I'm sick of the postal service in China. I sent a set of English language CD's over a month ago. It's lost in the ether somewhere. Nina figures I mailed it via the moon.
If I had known Neil you could have posted them to my home address in UK and then I could have arranged for Nina to collect them via my lady in Zhongshan. If you have any copies I am going to UK on 24th November and returning to China on 30th November.
Willy
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Still no sign of my lady's birthday card. And my postcards still haven't made it back from China, it's now 17 days since I posted them :huh:.
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Thanks Willy. I'll think of you next time. I'm still hoping it will show up somewhere (here or there).
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Time for another update. I don't know why I do these as sometimes the responses drive me nuts for a while. But we brothers must address the tough issues head on if we are to grow our collective knowledge. I am looking for a wife, so tough questions must be asked of our relationship.
Well there's still not much happening, although my postcards did make it back alive (after 25 days) and my lady's birthday card arrived in time for her birthday :icon_cheesygrin:.
It's almost a month since I met my lady in person. I have had a lot of time to think about things now.
I have thought about the issues we face. The money/spending issues we should be able to resolve, although I am reasonably sure she isn't a scammer. Finding out how little she earnt was a revelation to me, as I did not think that the cost of living in China was that low. I kind of thought she would be on 4-5x as much as she really earns. I know their taxes and rents are lower but based on the prices of watermelons and stuff I now appreciate that her life is tough. We will talk more about money so she can appreciate what we would and would not be able to afford in the UK.
The lack of hand holding and other things in the physical side of the relationship - well I think we need more time. Does she really love me? Well I'm not sure about this. She is very affectionate on QQ (much moreso than some of the other brothers' ladies), but I didn't see it so much in real life. Maybe I should have taken more of a lead. But then I would have run the risk of moving too quickly. Maybe it is just her upbringing. Her parents are very traditional, and I guess they might not necessarily have married for love. I will ask my lady about them (carefully!).
I do still love my lady. I am convinced of this. I have been photoshopping our holiday pictures this week in readiness for printing. It makes me happy to think of the great times we had together. I have had a look at the other lady profiles on chnlove, but I am not really interested in anyone else. Maybe I am obsessing over her too much, who knows?
We've only talked on QQ once this week and she doesn't often answer my text messages. This is bad. I know she is busy and the time difference is a killer, but we do need to talk more often than this, or the relationship will fizzle out. She is busy to the point of making herself ill. I guess if it helps I could ask her to reduce her working hours. I do own my own business, so I am racking my brains for something for her to do instead of her slave job. Obviously I could ask her to give up her job and make up the difference, but that is a big call at this stage in the relationship.
Has anyone experienced something similar? I guess I will have to ask my lady to reorder her priorities. Maybe her parents or friends could help her out. It will be tough, but if she is serious about finding a foreign husband, then she is going to have to find time to do passport applications, complex visa applications, learn English and plan our wedding. Again, this is tough, but at the end of the day there are now 8000+ ladies on chnlove so I will have no trouble finding someone who is totally committed to this, especially now that I have been to China and can demonstrate that I am no timewaster.
In other news I've also started my Mandarin class. My teacher is excellent. It is tough going and I wish I had waited until my lady was here. I am finding it hard to concentrate while I am worrying about my lady. I am starting to appreciate how tough it is to be a language teacher, especially when you have idiots like me in the class. I find it hard to understand spoken Chinese. I am however making good progress with learning hanzi characters and something has changed in my brain that allows me to visualise their forms - once I learn a character it now stays learned.
Aside from my lady, I do have fond memories of China. I have bought a Chinese teapot and I am starting to make excellent quality green tea with the stockpile of green tea I brought back with me. I have started to learn Sichuan cooking. I've had fun relaying my findings to the stock trading forums I post on. Hopefully I can make a return visit to China next year. I would also like to visit other provinces - culturally Hubei Province was totally unlike Hong Kong so I would like to see if that was a Cantonese/Sichuan or a China/Hong Kong difference.
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I had a similar problem with number 2 or was it number 3.
I liked her a lot and then she stopped communicating as well - pressure of work - how long does a text or a quick email take. The gap become longer between our contacts and eventually I realised that she had other things or persons on her mind and I was not high up on that list.
We went our own ways.
Willy
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Thanks Willy.
I talked to my lady on QQ this morning and I am satisfied that she really is busy at work. 7 day a week working and unpaid overtime on a slave wage while the boss gets rich - isn't that what communism was set up to stop :dodgy:? While I was with her she also caught up with sleep at any opportunity.
I wanted to talk about important things but it didn't feel that the timing was right. Google was also letting me down with some ridiculous translations - I could hardly even get a "did you talk to your parents about our future" out of it. It turns out she hasn't talked to them, and I'm a bit annoyed about that.
Today the weather is terrible here so this is a good thinking day. I realise that despite all the hostile reaction I got a couple of weeks back I was basically right to question our relationship. Sure, the worries about money were misplaced. Finding out how little she earnt for all that work was a huge shock to me. But my worries about the relationship were totally justified.
I think I will have to write some tough EMFs. It would break my heart to end this relationship. But in many ways my lady is still a little girl, and I really do have to question if she really wants a husband. Am I heartless? Yes. I have put a lot of effort into this relationship but I am not seeing much in return. Despite all the protests on this board my well travelled friend is absolutely right. A rich Western husband is a meal ticket for life for the average Asian woman and we should not settle for anything less than 100% commitment.
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Hi Brett,
My 2 cts, everytime the frequency in communication has gone down during my online dating career, the relationship died. Yes some of them are very busy, my main current focus is a bit like your lady, slave job and hours, but she does office work so we QQ sometimes during the day, and she has an internet access at home so we QQ even more. Even when I am not online, she will wish me goodnight on QQ ... she makes it clear she is thinking about me, same here.
When excuses about busy schedule and work appear, be attentive. Compare to how things were before those excuses started arriving. The lack of affection when you met also has me wondering, they might be culturally reserved in public, and maybe you should have moved on her, but still. My ex grabbed my hand on our second date.
Why don't you just ask her how she feels about your relationship? If she loves you she will explain, if she doesn't, she might pretend to get upset.
Good luck!
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Brett,
I still think you misunderstand what the men have been telling you here. Having not been to China before all I can do is relay what I have seen written. When men come back from China for the first time they go through somewhat of a trauma that is filled with doubt and questions. (The next sentence is from experience) Usually when a person goes through a highly emotionally charged period a very low period follows.)
It was not that people here did not want you to call it off with Ms. Wu, it was that they wanted you to get through the low doubt period so that you could make a better informed decision. What you do now as it was when you first came back from China is YOUR decision but now you can make that decision with a clearer head and if you CHOOSE to follow the advice of "the voice" your decision might become more clear.
I made my decision to call it quits with Pinky a few weeks ago. It may have been a good decision or it may have been a bad one but. I say that because I really do not know if I ever talked with her or the translator but I do know that I was not going to talk through THAT translator anymore and I at this point NOT TRUST chnlove because they offer NO SUPPORT except to put pictures up and take your money.
You will get a lot more than that here from the brotherhood + a couple of sisters.
Shaun
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Thanks voice - that sounds like a sensible suggestion. My eventual wife will have an incredibly tough time moving to the UK and if she does not really love me it just isn't going to work. In private I did put my arm around her but she didn't seem that comfortable with it. It is difficult to know what to make of that as she is just very naive about relationships. I will ask her about it.
I have unhidden my chnlove profile and I will reluctantly resume the hunt. Miss Wu ticks many boxes and it would burn me up inside to end the relationship. Love is clouding my judgement. I am inexperienced at relationships, but I am learning rapidly. I have been through the whole process of first contact > visiting the lady so that gives me a tremendous advantage now. Miss Wu and I would have a great life together, I am sure of that. We do make a good couple. But there has to be love there, or it's just not going to work.
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Brett
I told you long ago my feelings in a PM as to what I thought was happening here.
I have not read anything since then to allay those fears, quite the opposite as it seems to me that everything is pointing to the fact that I and my lady were probably correct in their assumptions.
It is good that you have made your profile visible again as I honestly believe that this current relationship is not going the way you want it to go.
I am not going to sit here telling you it will be alright in the end because I think the end has already happened.
If you spent all that time with her and she did not react favourably to you putting your arm around her and a little hand holding then I'm sorry, niave, young or not, I think those activities would have been normal for any couple in the time you were together. Men with more experience of relationships with women would have tried to go a lot further in that time and would have already moved on whilst there if not successful!
The choice is heartbreak now or later when you get her into the UK.
I would take it now and look for others to relieve that heartache.
Before you went to China you was forever talking on the webcam, qq and any other means possible - since then not a lot of contact - and what contact has mostly been made has been from you.
It was a great experience Brett and part of the learning curve but it time to move on. If she wanted more than a quick entry into the UK she would have made it clear by now.
Willy
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Thanks Willy. I am writing the tough EMF that will ask her what her true feelings are about this relationship. It will break my heart to end the relationship, but if the love is not mutual then end it I must. I do not think Miss Wu is a golddigger/after a visa. She is not after my money and is too inexperienced at relationships and not beautiful enough to be a successful golddigger.
I think it will be easier to end it if I get talking to other ladies, to reassure myself that the chances of finding somebody as fantastic as Miss Wu are greater than I think. I still have a mountain of unpaid leave, so visiting another in the Spring is a possibility.
I do not believe in predestination (that strange word that is in so many chnlove profiles!). Up to now the gigantic changes in my life have actually been down to very small incidents, like happening to buy the Guardian one weekend and spotting a job ad in it that lead to my getting involved with the dot com boom, or the rather incredible event of buying an Internet domain name as a joke, then using it to start my profitable software business. Yes I could have a good life with Miss Wu, but life with Xia the shopkeeper or Cathy the accountant could be just as good.
On the plus side, I am one of the select band of brothers who have actually been to China! I know where things went well, and where things need improving. I am now 100% certain I want a wife. I am also pretty certain I'm looking in the right country :icon_cheesygrin:.
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Time for another update. Well guys, last night I sent my tough love email. It turns out her mother is ill so that is epic bad timing.
Yes I know scammers often say there is an illness in the family but I did notice that her mother has a chronic health condition so I do believe her. I worry about this because there is no way a lady with an ill parent is going to give me the attention I would need.
My lady is not rich and her boss is driving her to an early grave. It's a basically "you need to work all the hours I tell you to because there are 100's of people who want your job" situation. It's not even a very good job. China is a harsh place and its experiment with capitalism is taking its toll on the people.
My lady tells me I didn't give her the right signals, and I tell her she didn't give me the right signals. Is it just down to our inexperience? Well I'm not totally convinced. I guess I was a little scared of making too much of a move as I was totally reliant on her out there and if I had blown it goodness knows how I would have got back to Wuhan again. Of course I am also an English gentleman and we aren't great at this kind of thing, there is a bloody good reason why most of my fellow countrymen need 10 pints of beer before seducing their woman.
I spent Sunday afternoon reading the relationship books in Waterstones. I thought I was a novice at relationships. But I now realise that I'm not. I have pretty much done everything I could to show that I loved her.
My lady has hidden her chnlove profile just as I have unhidden mine :s. What a sad story :sleepy:.
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I'm sorry for saying this but you really do not have a clue do you.
You said, "Yes I know scammers often say there is an illness in the family but I did notice that her mother has a chronic health condition so I do believe her. I worry about this because there is no way a lady with an ill parent is going to give me the attention I would need."
You need to grow up and realize IT IS NOT ALL ABOUT YOU!!!!!!!!
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Well said Shaun ,we could not have said it better ourselves , Ying and Robert .
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Well yes of course I understand that. This is a difficult situation and is far worse than I anticipated. I don't want to go into details.
But I have to face reality here. Is this lady going to be able to start a new life here and maybe have kids when her sick mother is 5000 miles away? I don't believe that she can. I was interested in moving to China, but now I know how poor salaries are I know that's just not realistic.
I know many people who have sick relatives and are who in the same situation. It's heartbreaking. Yes my lady is great but I cannot ask her to choose between me or her family. Of course she could visit them sometimes but realistically even I cannot pay for her to jump on a plane every time someone gets sick.
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Brett, your thinking way to far into the future to worry about. By the time there is a marriage and then able to come to you? it will be a couple of years? Allot of things change in that amount of time. Understanding and allowing her time to pull things together if this is the woman for you will help big time in the relationship.
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Brett,
I have tried to be an encouragement here and respect the fact that you are an adult. Just by what I am seeing here I think the one who has a lack of maturity is you. If I were in your shoes I would apologize for not seeing the signs of her willingness to move forward. Then you might want to do a little research on relationship building and focus on what you need to do and not on what she needs to do.
I think your greatest stumbling block in this relationship is you. You appear to be a intelligent man and this is not beyond your grasp. Forget the money issue. After 27 years of marriage and 2 daughters I can tell one undeniable fact. Females will always cost more money that you are wanting to spend. There is nothing wrong about being thrifty and it appears to me Chinese women can teach us rather than we teach them on this issue.
Bottom line is you need to move from the position of selfishness to selflessness in regard to your relationship with Ms. Wu. You want it to improve. Instead of it being all about you change it to being all about her and watch how she reacts. If she is a good quality woman you'll be calling the fire department to put out the fire.
Try it and prove me wrong on this issue. I dare you.
Shaun
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Brett,
I have tried to be an encouragement here and respect the fact that you are an adult. Just by what I am seeing here I think the one who has a lack of maturity is you. If I were in your shoes I would apologize for not seeing the signs of her willingness to move forward. Then you might want to do a little research on relationship building and focus on what you need to do and not on what she needs to do.
I think your greatest stumbling block in this relationship is you. You appear to be a intelligent man and this is not beyond your grasp. Forget the money issue. After 27 years of marriage and 2 daughters I can tell one undeniable fact. Females will always cost more money that you are wanting to spend. There is nothing wrong about being thrifty and it appears to me Chinese women can teach us rather than we teach them on this issue.
Bottom line is you need to move from the position of selfishness to selflessness in regard to your relationship with Ms. Wu. You want it to improve. Instead of it being all about you change it to being all about her and watch how she reacts. If she is a good quality woman you'll be calling the fire department to put out the fire.
Try it and prove me wrong on this issue. I dare you.
Shaun
Awesome Shaun! Absolutely awesome!! When I need some advice about the beautiful Fei you will be my first port of call my friend - posthaste.....
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Good one Shaun........spot on.
Brett.....you worry me !!!
Firstly, to be a bit facetious...you dont need 10 pints of beer to seduce a woman...its called "boozers droop".........You dont ever need to seduce a woman......she will do that for you if she thinks you are the "one"
You will never persuade a woman (unless of very low quality...and for money !!) to do anything she does not want to do...........especially in the seduction department)
Wages in China should occupy about 2 of your brain cells in the grand scheme of things....you are stuck with them as the reality, you cant change them, they are not your problem. Washing veggies in the street is what they do...no problem, why is it such a big deal for you...you dont live there, they do, its their world.
If you are concerned that your lady is being used as a slave for a pittance...then send her 1200 RMB a month, she can quit her job, and let her concentrate on learning English.
For you, this is a tiny amouny of money. Show her you care enough to free her from this drudgery.
And what did you plan for the "physical" side of your relationship when you went to China...did you expect sex, or kissing or what. You tell that you made an attempt to put your arm around her and she was uncomfortable. But you cant just lob up and get cuddly without some "foreplay"...subltle touches as you open the door for her, an "accidental" touch as you enter the lift...all that sort of stuff that is in your testosterone driven genes......the old courtship ritual...works every time.
Are you sure that it was not her that bombed this relationship ?? Are you sure that you were "man" enough to take on a Chinese Lady, who...believe me and many of the Bros here can GUARANTEE that she has an encyclopaedic knowlege about romance, love, sex and all that...You had better believe it !! maybe it was you that could not understand, interpret or manage the signals.
You obviously have some real feelings for her....be certain that you are not chucking out the baby with the bathe water.
DavidE
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Nice one shaun and David...I think I said all this to him in a round about way early on in this thread...:huh:
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Thank you David and Shaun, that is exactly what I wanted to say, but I wouldn't have been able to put it as nicely.
That said though, if there's no attraction for Brett with his Ms. Wu, he needs to break it off and move on. Stop wasting her time and making her jump through hoops and live up to your expectations. Find that beautiful lady you're so set on finding. Just please, make damn sure before you drag her through the mud, because I hate seeing it happen.
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God well sead guys i try not to read what brett post becase he drives me nuts with his me me me all the time,its called give and take brett.
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Boy ... that is some tough Love .
But it needed to be said . It was not meant to be mean ... if they would have not cared for you Brett , they would have been only Silence . Now that would have not helped you any . If you truely Love Ms. Wu you don't complain about this and that over and over ... you go and MAKE it better ... for HER and for YOU .
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Thanks guys. Yes my lady and I drive each other nuts sometimes - we need to spend more time talking, and more time together. Talking will be easier next month when her work gets less busy, and I am going to see what I can do with the many days leave I have left.
I do write crazy stuff on here, but that is what's going round in my head and once again I'll say that the stuff posted here is not the stuff that goes into an EMF. There is no 24 hour rule for this board.
My lady is unique. No doubt about that. That's why I love her so much.
Today I had a good talk with her and we are still good. Her mother is still in hospital. I gather the sickness was brought on by the freezing conditions in China that other brothers are talking about. I guess I could get them a heater. But in the longer term maybe I could get some sort of central heating sorted out. I'm not sure what the Chinese do about this, I guess it's a problem trying to keep yourself comfortable when the weather can be anything from -5 to 45 degrees. We need to figure out some long term plans for her parents. My lady hinted about this in an earlier EMF but I suspect she rather understated the issues we face.
We also need to do something about her job. Yes I wouldn't hesitate to ask her to leave her job and I could send her money. But this is a big call to make and from what she's told me, I'm not sure she would even be comfortable with the idea. My lady does want to change careers but we've not had any time to talk about it. Sooner or later an idea will emerge.
My lady has hidden her chnlove profile. I did not ask for this and it's a lovely gesture.
In other news, only 1 of my postcards ever made it back from China. So far. I think the others must have taken the boat which is odd considering I posted them in the same post office on the same day.
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:huh::-/:icon_rolleyes:
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:huh::-/:icon_rolleyes:
:icon_eek::icon_rolleyes::icon_mad:
Shaun I think we need to give up...ROFLMAO:icon_cheesygrin::icon_cheesygrin:
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Oh my what can you say its like entering the twilight zone lol.:s:icon_cheesygrin:
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My 2 cts, everytime the frequency in communication has gone down during my online dating career, the relationship died. Yes some of them are very busy, my main current focus is a bit like your lady, slave job and hours, but she does office work so we QQ sometimes during the day, and she has an internet access at home so we QQ even more. Even when I am not online, she will wish me goodnight on QQ ... she makes it clear she is thinking about me, same here.
That's been my experience too. I just reckon if someone is so busy that cannot even send you a mobile phone text message to say that they're thinking of you, then you don't matter a whole lot to them. Hell, you can even do this while you're siting on the toilet, so you're not losing a single minute.
I always say this: it is less important what people say than what they do. If someone says that you are important to you and they can't find a single minute in a day to say hello to you, then clearly something is going wrong.
You either matter to someone or you don't. I suppose there are some people who don't need to be in touch all the time. But that's not the kind of person I want to be with. If I want to be alone all the time, I can do this without leaving home.
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Danny good thought but how can a person text while using a Chinese toilet and keep from falling in?
Shaun
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With good balance..
(http://farm1.static.flickr.com/78/175599316_16471f60f3.jpg)
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:huh::-/:icon_rolleyes:
:rolleyes:
:icon_eek:
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Ok guys we need to stick to the subject.To many times.These threads are getting off the subject and going off on a totally different direction then the original poster intended.If you want to start your own subject.Start your own thread it is that simple.
I will start deleting any posts.That I feel do not contribute to the thread that has ben started by the original poster.We all want to have fun.But we need to deal with the subject at hand.Either you have something constructive to say.Or you don't.If you don't have anything constructive to say don't post.Put it on David 50 thread that is what it is there for.
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Thanks maxx!
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Hello Brett. Any updates?
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Not much good happening I'm afraid.
My lady's mother is still in hospital. My lady is worried as her recovery is slow. I don't know the details but after doing a bit of reading I rather suspect that her illness is maybe linked to China's famously bad pollution. Maybe we should take the pollution problem more seriously, especially the brothers who are going out there to live. The cold weather was definately a factor, I know that my lady really fears the cold.
Anyway, I have talked to my lady a bit on QQ, but she is still busy in her slave job, and I guess she also has to visit her mother and maybe help her father out with the home. I have taken a bit of a back seat of late, as I don't want to stress her out with any more crazy EMFs. I did cheer her up with some great animated bananas on QQ. But I can tell that she is depressed.
Actually I have also been depressed, this has been a pretty awful month for both of us (and not just relationship wise).
I am reading that Men are from Mars/Women are from Venus book. It's got some quite useful stuff. From this book, the messages on this forum and what my lady says in EMFs, I can see now that I need to convince my lady that I love her. Hmm, I know I am a relationship novice but I gather other brothers are having the same problems with their ladies. We shower them with gifts, we fly 1000's of miles to see them, we text and QQ them, we learn their strange language, but after all that they still don't seem to know why we're interested in them :huh:.
I still love my lady, but I am feeling neglected. That Mars/Venus book is also good in explaining that men need to feel wanted. That would explain why I've been getting edgy, window shopping on chnlove etc. I am however gradually coming to the conclusion that my lady is stupidly busy. The lack of contact is that because she is busy and exhausted. I'd like to help her to get less busy, but she seems too busy to make plans that would make her less busy :s. Another difficult thing I have encountered is that my lady is really reluctant to talk about important aspects of our relationship. I really hated sending my tough love EMF. But the upside was that my lady really opened up with her feelings about me. It was tough for both of us, but I have a much better idea of what I need to focus on in future.
My lady liked the long wooly socks I posted for her. I got a late night QQ session in return :angel:. I will have to post some more small inexpensive gifts. I think I'll post some good quality chocolate next.
I am doing quite well in my Mandarin class. Our teacher is excellent and she has started to get me interested in the language. I am starting to get over "the hump" that is the initial barrier to learning Chinese. I am hopeful that my language skills will be half decent in readiness for my next trip. Other people are right - Chinese does get easier the more you learn, whereas European languages get harder :@.
One other major development - the rest of my postcards arrived, 2 weeks after the first one. Considering I posted them in the same post office on the same day that's some achievement :icon_cheesygrin:.
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Time for another update.
There's still not much happening. I don't know about you guys but I find this waiting much harder than the initial search.
I guess I am used to living life in the fast lane. I found Miss Wu 9 days after signing up for chnlove. In those 9 days I fell in and out of love with a couple of Changsha Love Bridge girls, and got quite scared by a couple of feisty divorcees hee hee. I went to visit her 2 months after we first met.
There is a strong connection between Miss Wu and I. There are now 8400 women on chnlove. Wow, that's a lot of ladies. I knew at the time that Miss Wu was unique, and I've not seen a single woman on the site that is as unique as she is. Even through the dark periods of our relationship, I haven't talked to another lady.
Miss Wu's profile is no longer on chnlove. Her agency has deleted her profile altogether. While I appreciate the gesture, it does mean that I am unable to EMF her anymore. If anyone knows an agency translator who will moonlight for $'s then give me a shout [I am only looking for someone who works for an agency and lives in China - there are no shortage of translators I can find in work, but I specifically want someone with agency experience]. Miss Wu has been a bit evasive on QQ about this whole business, so it might be possible for the agency to still translate for us. I do wonder though if money changed hands and she paid off the agency. I know she really didn't like talking about personal things with the translator.
Our relationship has survived a few massive misunderstandings and terribly embarrassing Google mis-translations. That is why I like using EMFs for important stuff. One thing I've noticed is that my lady is really reluctant to talk about personal things. She is extremely self confident, but perhaps she has a lot of self doubt. We have come to the conclusion that we need to build trust in each other, and convince each other that we do really love each other. Do our ladies really love us? Many guys here are putting on a brave face in public, but I know from PM's I've got that other brothers have doubts about their ladies.
I wish we could talk more. I have just come to the conclusion that I have found the busiest girl in China. She works 6 days a week, and sometimes there's overtime or entertaining of clients. At the moment her mama is still in hospital, so I guess she is spending a lot of time there. I suppose baba will need feeding as well and there are numerous other household chores that she would need to keep on top of. Their extended family is massive, and yet they don't seem to be helping out as much as I'd thought.
I wonder if I should offer to help Miss Wu out financially. If she could work a couple of days less per week it might help tremendously. I don't know if she would want me to do this though. I am not sure if helping your future spouse would affect a subsequent visa application either, as it might look better if they have a job. Maybe I will wait until we got engaged. I know that her salary is small change to me, but these ladies do value their pride and independence. I respect them for that. Let's put it the other way. Would I give up my job if a woman in a different continent told me to? Of course I wouldn't. What I would really like to do is to find a small business opportunity for her, so I can support her, but she could feel as if she is doing something for the money.
I want to visit her again. We did talk about going to Hong Kong early next year. I would feel more relaxed there, as I have been there before so I could be much more attentive to Miss Wu, instead of being distracted by wierd stuff I've never seen before. It would also allow me to introduce her to some British culture. It would be a great place to get engaged - funnily enough my sister got engaged there. Hong Kong is also much more romantic than Yichang!
I have also thought about visiting her parents again, and this time taking a translator with me. Perhaps I should take a sabbatical from work and go out there for much longer.
In other news I am doing quite well in my Chinese course. Our first exam is next week. I missed the first fortnight of the course, but I am no longer the worst student in the class. Another guy on the course used to live in Japan and he writes all the class notes in Kanji. That's intimidating!!! Nevertheless, I feel that a bilingual household would not be as impossible as I first thought. Next term is mostly related to writing Chinese - maybe I could write my own EMFs next year?
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Brett, sometimes it seems like we are seeing the same lady. Nina too is extremely busy, to the point of exhaustion. She works during the day, goes to English classes at night and takes care of her friend's daughter and dog as well. She recently got very edgy about the lack of progress she is seeing in her English class and then the doubt started to surface. I've had to reassure her a lot lately. Then comes the translation errors. Jesus the backpedaling. Here's a good example: type "I do understand" into MDBG then translate it back. It becomes I do not understand. WTF! :@ Now I've discovered that I can not win an argument with her. She too will not tell me much about her personal life. Heck, friend's names! I met her nieces, but I only know Xia's name. Her best friend is named Big Sister. She has sisters, but when she tells me about her sister, she means her best friend, who still remains nameless, yet we have had many dinners together (the 3 of us).
That said, she is amazing, beautiful, devoted to our relationship beyond all doubt, so very intelligent, bright, energetic, hard working, multitasking...and I love her more than anything. I'm so dying to see her again.
So, Brett, it's a tough adventure we're on, and I doubt it will ever end. Enjoy the downs because the ups that follow are incredible and worth every bit of work we can invest.
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I really take my hat off to you Guys, who having met your ladies in China, then have to conduct your trans world romances at such a distance.
I do not think that I could have done that – I am not sure that I would have even wanted to do that. And my not having to do that is probably the only reason that being my age is a good thing!!!!!
You Guys have to be at home, probably alone, for a good part of the day thinking of your lady and wondering what she is doing at that time.
You keep in contact by various means but in the course of a day something happens that jars your confidence. Maybe a misplaced word, one lost in translation, something someone has said, or another has hinted at. There are many things that can happen that cannot be immediately resolved by just sitting down and talking to each other.
This is the time to remember the 24 hour rule. Even though I have been here for coming up to 6 months now I still keep that in mind.
For the first three months I was the proverbial kid locked in a candy store. I feasted myself on so many delights that I thought I may qualify for the Guinness Book of Records. I did use a lot of Viagra and as well as meeting many women I also learned a great deal about their individual and general likes and dislikes.
And then the door of the store was unlocked by Angel and for the last three months we have enjoyed life together and I have never ever been look after so well in my long life.
But on the odd occasion we have had different opinions on things we have been able to sort them out there and then.
When we talk we use words of 7 year olds!!!! Why because that is probably the level of learning we are both at with each other’s language. Neither of us uses big words – we keep things simple. Many tend to forget their partners limitations and start using words that the other does not know.
When you got to China – we all do it – Ni Hoa! We say and then we get a barrage of words back that we have no idea of – because having said ni hao they presumed that we speak Chinese. We do the same with our ladies.
So my advice is until you are well versed in each other’s language then keep your conversations and phrases simple.
Willy
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Yes that's good advice Willy, on QQ I mainly talk about fruit, and how rubbish our jobs our. Important stuff is for EMFs. When we met we were able to talk OK. But her high school english was very limiting and there are vast gaps in her vocabularly. Like for example, she didn't know the word "popular", and I just could not think of an alternative word.
Abigbutt - yes I can sometimes write good translations in google, but what happens when you ask your lady something horribly embarrassing but it's only after a week that she blows her top and finally tells you that it's a very inappropriate thing to say? Chinese doesn't have as large a vocabularly as English, there are whole words missing (like there's apparently no word for kitten or puppy). Translations are difficult, even for experts.
Our ladies are all very different, just as we guys are different.
Neil - I get those wierd translation errors when it actually writes the exact opposite. And you have to remember of course that translation is a two way thing - our ladies could easily be writing the exact opposite to what they mean as well.
I am starting to suspect that Chinese is easier to learn than English. The biggest stumbling block is tones. There are some guys in our class who must be tone deaf, as there is just no way on earth that they would be understood in China.
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I am starting to suspect that Chinese is easier to learn than English.
Wait until you try to learn how to read and write Chinese characters before you say that Brett!
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Be careful about telling her she is in a rubbish job Brett. She may start to think she is not suitable for you if you start saying she is working beneath herself.
I have never met anyone here who is not pleased to have a job - any job - even the lady who keeps the street immaculately clean outside my apartment block.
If you are putting the value on her job in the context of the amount she is paid then why? She is getting an average wage for an average job.
The tones are unimportant when you are in England. If they learn the words they will soon find the tones to use depending on which part of china they go to. You may be perfect in the tones of your present teacher but where in China is she from and how long since she left? In practise you could well find that your clasmates would be understand in some areas where they would not have a clue as to what you are saying.
The word for Mother, Hemp, Horse and Scold is the same word Ma it is the tone that sets them apart in Pinyin and when spoken. But when spoken by a foreigner the chinese listener will soon realise in the context of the whole sentence as to which of the four you are refering too.
Mandarin has 4 tones and 1 toneless tone - Catonese has 8 tones - China has more than 80 dialects and for many Mandarin is not their first language and Chinese people make mistakes with their tones too.
Stop knocking your classmates - you will soon be sounding off that your pencil case is bigger than theirs!!!!
Willy
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Hi Willy,
I was talking about our rubbish jobs in the context of how mind numbingly soul destroying it is to spend all day in an office, rather than the financial rewards. Not that it matters though, my lady tells me just how rubbish paid her job is and how her poor English meant she couldn't get a plum job after graduating. Her best friend left her so-so job and is studying for the civil service exams. My lady wants to change careers, but we've not yet talked about alternatives.
I know a fair bit about her job. What I report here about her job is what she tells me. She is an interior designer. The powers that be are shouting about 8% economic growth. But at the coal face of the construction industry, business is bad. I know she joined this company a couple of years back and they were paying a lot more than her old job. I reckon it was started by her boss at the top of the global property boom. Since then business is a struggle and they might well be ruthlessly undercutting competitors just to stay afloat. Remember capitalism? We used to do that in the West.
Wages in China are absurdly low and for me it felt ridiculous that an average Chinese person would have to work a long time just to buy a CD. I guess at some time in the future some clever currency manipulation will take place and the authorities will stoke up massive internal demand for goods and leave the heavily indebted USA out to dry. But this is not an economics thread.
As to big butt - well a reserved traditional chinese girl and reserved Englishman that knows only half a dozen words of Mandarin are going to take time to get things going, but we're heading in the right direction. With hindsight I should have spent much more time in China. I was woefully unprepared for the trip. But then again, I could have booked a month off and she might not have turned up. I had no backup plan apart from a good holiday. I am considering taking a sabbatical from work next year, then going out for a couple of months.
Anyway, in relationship related news Miss Wu has gone AWOL. When you're 5000 miles away it's difficult to keep up with life's little (and big) domestic incidents. Like Neil says, much of the chaos in my lady's life is on a need to know basis. I have emailed her agency to see if I can see what their position is with her, and whether I can repair the EMF pipeline. I did consider employing my own translator, but our agency translator is so good I am reluctant to ditch them.
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Those AWOL moments are rough. Nina is moving this weekend and she's unsure how long it will take to reconnect her internet. I reminded her that she can still send me messages on QQ from her phone and I'll translate both ways. Hopefully she will.
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Those AWOL moments are rough. Nina is moving this weekend and she's unsure how long it will take to reconnect her internet. I reminded her that she can still send me messages on QQ from her phone and I'll translate both ways. Hopefully she will.
Hopefully it will not be long Neil. Mine was up and running in Zhongshan within 48 hours of us requesting it but if you get into any communications problems them maybe we can help out. We are in the Qigang Road area of Zhongshan 528400
Willy
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Thanks Willy. I'm not too worried. When Nina decided to get her net connected, it took about 3 days. Some things move very quickly in China. I've asked Nina to give me her address so I could find it on Google Earth, but she hasn't told me anything beyond Zhongshan. Yeah, that doesn't really narrow it down babe. She thinks I worry too much. I just like to know the lay of the land. Next time I'm in Zhongshan, I would very much like to look you up and have a drink.
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By the way guys, are we able to put QQ on our own phones? I have MSN on my phone, so it would be nice to have QQ as well.
Still no news from my girl, but I don't think she's moving house :icon_cheesygrin:.
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Brett,
i have QQ on my iPhone. I can paste my own messages in Chinese, but I can't copy her messages to be able to translate them using my translation software. So I can only translate them slowly and laboriously using a dictionary. My Chinese lessons have helped me slightly, but it is very slow.
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Thanks Alex, I'll see if I can install it.
As to my girl, I haven't heard from her for 5 days now. A couple of days ago I sent an EMF to one of the other girls in her agency, with a note to the translator telling them I wanted to know what the agency's status was with my girl. That was the only way I could think of of contacting my girl's agency. I got a *very* mysterious email back from someone apparently from chnlove telling me that the agency had never heard of her :huh:. That's very wierd indeed, as I've been telling everyone here how great the agency is. Oh well I guess I'd be off the hook for agency fees.
As you can imagine I'm not feeling great right now. But if Miss Wu fails to resurface I'll resume my wife searching plan in the new year :icon_biggrin:.
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As to my girl, I haven't heard from her for 5 days now. A couple of days ago I sent an EMF to one of the other girls in her agency, with a note to the translator telling them I wanted to know what the agency's status was with my girl. That was the only way I could think of of contacting my girl's agency. I got a *very* mysterious email back from someone apparently from chnlove telling me that the agency had never heard of her :huh:. That's very wierd indeed, as I've been telling everyone here how great the agency is. Oh well I guess I'd be off the hook for agency fees.
Brett, This whole post doesn't make any sense? Did you ask the agency about her with the profile # ? or just by first name? How could they say they don't know her? The translator knows her? from what I read?
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Hi Vince,
This whole situation makes no sense. So here's what has happened...
I haven't heard from Miss Wu for 5 days now. I've sent phone text messages and QQ offline messages. Naturally I am worried. Her mother is sick, and my lady is working so hard in her job that she's making herself ill. I know our relationship has been fragile of late, but when we QQ'd on Monday things seemed good, and she even asked for my address so she could send me my scarf she had knitted.
In her last EMF to me (mid-November) she said that as a gesture of good faith she was going to get her agency to hide her profile. But when I logged onto chnlove I found out her profile had been deleted. It's not possible to EMF her at all (I see a "The profile with this ID was not found." message).
From what I've learnt from my fellow brothers here it seems that it is exceedingly rare for an agency to delete a lady's profile before marriage. I really want to know what the agency's situation is with my lady. Have they been paid off? Has she had a disagreement with them? Has my lady decided I am her man? Has she decided not to look for a foreign husband after all? We can speculate all we like, but the fact is, there are no facts. I have no idea what is going on.
Our QQ-only relationship is going nowhere. I need the EMF route to her restored, or I need to find a freelance translator. So a couple of days ago I sent an EMF to one of the other ladies listed with my current lady's agency, P688 Guangzhou Daniel International Marriage Agency. I sent them a "I'm not interested in this lady, but what is your situation with Miss Wu (giving them her P number)" note attached. I would have emailed the agency directly, but I don't have their contact details, and I couldn't find their website. Obviously their contract is with Miss Wu, not with me. But I would like to know what is going on.
So this morning I get an email from somebody called Sunny, who I guess may work for chnlove (message shown below). But there was no email signature and they used a yahoo email account. They claimed not to have heard of Miss Wu at all :huh:.
As you can imagine I find this all very upsetting. I still love Miss Wu. We do have problems, but with some very carefully composed EMFs I was really starting to make some progress in our relationship.
But the fact is, if I can't talk to her, then I'm totally stuck. I can't end the relationship. I can't plan our next meeting. I don't want to talk to other ladies until I get closure on this relationship :s.
I guess there's nothing else I can do but wait.
-----------email from mystery person (personal details replaced with X's)-----------
Hi Brett,
I am the translator on Chnlove. I am sorry about you and XXX Wu (P68XXXX). There are many Chnlove agencies in China. I have checked in our agency yesterday that there is no lady named XXX Wu.
I wish you good luck with XXX Wu. If you need any more help, please feel free to contact with me. My E-mail is: XXX@yahoo.cn. Or I can introduce other ladies to you on Chnlove. ^_^
Best regards,
Sunny
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Because the profile was deleted this translator isn't finding that profile number. There could be a number of reasons why she's not answering. I understand the worry involved but maybe wait it out a while longer?
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Yeah, who knows what's going on. Who cares. If a relationship comes to this, then it's over. The 40% rule claims another couple I guess :s.
I have to trust my gut instinct. And from the moment I came back from Wuhan it has told me to end this relationship. Finding a soulmate should be the happiest time of my life, and yet here I am close to tears, waiting for a text message or a QQ window to appear. I need a girl who is reliable and who wants to share even the most difficult periods of her life with me. Miss Wu is a lovely girl, and I really love her. But I'm just not seeing the love that the other brothers are seeing from their ladies. We looked like a perfect couple. But something is wrong. Is it me? Is it her? Is it her parents? I don't know.
So I have started contacting other ladies. Already I've found a fellow ex-scientist, and guess what, she's not from Changsha or called Sunny :icon_cheesygrin:.
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Maybe we could all chip in to help these poor chinese slave girls,we might need
a few billion quid,but what the heck,
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I think I will have to write some tough EMFs. It would break my heart to end this relationship. But in many ways my lady is still a little girl, and I really do have to question if she really wants a husband. Am I heartless? Yes. I have put a lot of effort into this relationship but I am not seeing much in return.
I have been reading your posts brett Have you read anything you have posted?She works for slave wages you want to take her to more civilised areas that are so familiar to you to show her how well the rest of the world lives?Her mother is sick and you seem to dismiss it as how much time does she need to spend with her mom what about you?You act like you are saving this lady .I have no idea what your converstaions are but I do know as long as her being at a below standard in your eyes thisi bothers you.Eventually you will pass this message to her and she will feel like she is so unworthy of a fellow like you.Read some of your posts I realise you are expressing your thoughts to the brothers but do you realise how bad this is affecting or infecting your thoughts?Reverse this how would you feel if it was her that was making a good living and you lived like she does would you want that thrown at you?Personally I dont apreciate some of the remarks about slave jobs and menial labor you make this sound so much about you and you expectancies.I am sorry to everyone on this site for saying all this but I waited over the 24 hour mark and I had to say it .Max if you want to ban me for this so be it .I just needed to express my opinion which I know is probably put of line but I had to say it.
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Brett: can you do analysis on the email headers? That would give you something.
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Spot on Ron.
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Next time I'm in Zhongshan, I would very much like to look you up and have a drink.
That will be good. I look forward to it. If you ever need anything doing here then just PM me.
Willy
Brett - as far as I can ascertain there are two reasons why a ladies profile is removed from Chnlove. it is usually done by the agency not Chnlove - 1)the first reason is that the lady has refused to or cannot pay the agency the introduction fee that she would have been contracted to pay the moment that she met you in person. This can be several thousand rmb and maybe she does not have that money. (you guys who are talking to and want to meet several ladies then consider their positions financially and also realise why they cry off at the last minute if they do not think you are sincere)
2) The other reason would be that the agency was afraid that something has arisen that may make then liable to legal action. If for example it was proven that the agency and/or employee had deliberately lied to a man in order to facilitate the marriage of a Chinese national to a Foreigner. In this case the profile would be removed and contracts cancelled.
If you have not discussed finances with your lady it is possible that the first may have been the problem here. It is possible that is why she wanted to go to UK to marry so that the agency would not know to charge her the 30,000 - 60,000 rmb that she is probably contracted for upon marrying. The agencies tell them on signing up that the men usually pay!!!! But if not it is down to the ladies.
She is on 1000 a month if she wanted to fulfill her obligations in China it would need you to help out here. Did you ever discuss this with her?
If not then my opinion is that this is what your problem may be. Well I may be well off the mark here but from what I hear this will not be the first time this has happened.
There has always been a concern in my mind as to why she is using an agency far from where she lives and why the secret over her name - but that is not ours to speculate on as you have a reason for not making it public.
Willy
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Brett,
Am I missing something here? Why don't you write to Chnlove customer care dept and ask them what happened to your ladies profile? It's free and you may just get some light thrown on this whole thing.
Anyway I hope you find the answer soon,waiting is no fun at all. Best of luck
Paul
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Willly I think you got it right.
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Thanks Willy, that's an interesting insight. Of all the brothers here you have the best understanding of my relationship.
As I have said before, we can speculate all we like, but there are no facts here. I cannot help if I don't know what's wrong. I want to save this relationship. But my lady has not always been straight with me about important things.
I have tried and failed at talking about important stuff on QQ. I need the agency translator. If the agency needed money then my lady or the agency should have told me, or at least dropped hints. Yes I know the agencies charge big fees. Some charge for meetings, some do not. But at the end of the day, the contract is between the lady and the agency. I find it very unsettling that a lady can sign a contract knowing full well she cannot afford the fees.
Miss Wu got really insistent about marrying in the UK, and that worried me. Again, there are no facts and we've not discussed wedding plans since.
It is strange that Miss Wu's agency is 1000 miles from her home. She won't tell me what she was doing when she lived in Guangzhou.
As to the suggestions of offering money - these are proud people, and I don't like the idea of buying her love. The Wu family do have money. Her parents both have a pension. Their apartment is very nice inside, and Miss Wu has a very expensive computer.
I have always asked her if she needed money for specific things, like a Hong Kong passport etc. I gave her a lot of money for her birthday. I have dropped hints about me supporting her and her giving up her job. In my latest EMF I wanted to ask her if she could work part time. She has however made it clear that she does not want to be a burden on me, she has made that clear in her earliest EMFs. It is also a big risk. Jobs are hard to come by in that part of China. I think it would also help our visa application if she had a job.
Miss Wu knows her job isn't great. That's not my opinion, it's her opinion. She wants to change careers. Her best friend is studying her way out of the tough Chinese way of life. Marriage is another option.
So don't get me wrong. I love Miss Wu. This is why I find it so difficult. The stuff I post here is what's going round in my head, not the stuff I tell her. The 24 hour rule has kept this relationship alive.
As to Miss Wu's real name, guys this is a public forum. If it was a closed forum and we all trusted each other then I would reveal more. But I don't trust everyone looking in. We have chnlove spies, agency spies, even men who faked their own death :s.
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Brett,
I will say this as kind as I possible can. Please understand that we all want to see you successful. Many of us see the problem here as you and not Ms. Wu. At first we offered suggestions to you on ways you could change the situation and you brushed us off. Some of us became more aggressive in out comments hoping to get it through your head that it is you that needs to do some serious changing.
You are condescending tone is unbelievable. The fur rises on my back every time you say Miss Wu's slave job. Brett, her situation is not uncommon in China. It is accepted there. The problem is that you speak down to her and everyone else on this site. We really do not need to see her letters to see how you talk because we see it here.
If is my opinion and I think others will agree that she got fed up with your attitude and went elsewhere. I am sorry to say this to you but if you want to find a good Chinese woman and have a successful marriage you will need to change your approach and attitude.
I will offer you one suggestion through PM. I hope you will take my advise here because all of the men here on this site want to see everyone find success. This is maybe the only thing we all agree on other than we all love Chinese women.
Shaun
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Fellas, lets try and put personal differences aside.
It took me four women before I found one that was a good match and I suppose I learned a little each time and it really does suck when something like this happens so lets cut Brett some slack.
We wont know for sure what the reason of all this truly is but I think probably Willy is closest here, maybe there has been money issues in the background and she has left or been kicked off off Chnlove for not paying fees? I think Brett should have discussed this with her before but maybe she thought he would run if she brought it up?, who knows now, lesson for the future.
A brotherhood stands beside their brothers in their best and worst times. What ever you feel about Breet, no doubt he needs our support and encouragement right now, the analysis can come later.
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abigbutt,
Just to pick you up on your comment about your country saving UK during world war 2.... If you go back and read the facts, America on it's own saved no-one. World war 2 was an allied War, which saved Europe and probably America too from a future of rule by fascists....
David.......
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Brett it was my intention to have you reread some of your posts so you could see where your headset was.Customer care would contact that agency and have them find out what happened to your Miss Wu. Whether she had them remover her profile or what.You id say her mother was ill.There could be many reasons I am not trying to give you hope just understanding.If she sent you mail you know that may take forever to get to you.I dont know if you have her cell number or home phone .I wish you the best in whatever you decide.You have been there so you realise the situation financially over there .I think most people on this site does.Some of your posts seem to shout your disapointments.I dont know what an ex scientist is unless that was a joke ?Anyway I hope you get some kind of resolution from this and can move on.I wouldnt worry about spies and all that I dont think there is much they can do unless your planning something against the agencies .That seems like to much James Bond to me lol.Have a great day
Ron
David you are right we didnt save anyone thats why we have allies to help each other
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abigbutt,
Just to pick you up on your comment about your country saving UK during world war 2.... If you go back and read the facts, America on it's own saved no-one. World war 2 was an allied War, which saved Europe and probably America too from a future of rule by fascists....
David.......
Glad you got in first David otherwise I would probably have more 'Political' postings removed from the forum!!!!
Willy
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Sound like “FawltyTowers” here all of a sudden. Not sure who Basil is though, but What ever you do don't mention the war! :icon_cheesygrin:
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Fellas, lets try and put personal differences aside.
A brotherhood stands beside their brothers in their best and worst times. What ever you feel about Brett, no doubt he needs our support and encouragement right now, the analysis can come later.
As The Irishman said lets give him some support. We are all of the opinion that this relationship is over. I think that Brett thinks this too. So where are all the pages of sorry notes that are posted for others who have fallen by the wayside???
We are a SUPPORT group - that means we support everyone of our brothers whether they get up our nose's or not. OK you think that he does not take heed your advice. Has any one individual on this forum ever received so much advice as he has - I doubt it and if he took in all the conflicting pieces he has been given his mind would be be going around faster than his brain could cope.
Brett wears his heart on his sleeve so lets Support a Brother who is in obvious need of it.
Willy
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Willy,
I will PM you. I understand where your thinking is on this.
Shaun
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Brett,
I'm sure you've seen the responses from everyone else. Normally I wouldn't throw my two cents in, but in this case, I don't want to see you throw away something good.
I know you're feeling a lot of conflicting emotions right now. Anyone in your position would be. That said, my suggestion is to take a step back. Yes, she's gone AWOL for a while and you can't find a reason for it. I would suggest waiting for a while longer. As you said, her schedule has been very busy lately and she does have a sick mother (in addition to her slave job and whatnot). I have had an experience where one of the women I was talking to disappeared for two weeks. Text messaging and QQ and letters to her agency yielded no response. What I didn't know until later when she returned was that her father had passed away and she didn't feel up to doing anything while she was mourning (and she also lived away from her family due to her work). I was going crazy, but I knew she would not just disappear without a good reason.
Now, I hope Miss Wu isn't in the same situation with her mother, but I would give her some breathing space for a little bit more before you do something that you will regret. We all know you have strong feelings for her. Have some faith...
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Frank,
It looks like Brett has gone AWOL for the moment too. I feel bad because I was not trying to launch an attack. In fact I never even considered it when I made my comments. But you are right she could be away dealing with a family issue. I had that with the first woman I was enamored with for a while. How soon we forget these issues.
Guys,
This has concerned me for a while. It seems that one person like me for instance will let the hammer drop some and a few will come in and sledge hammer the point. It is not always the same people but it does happen. I would like to suggest that if a person calls another individual down for something they see as an issue that the others refrain from commenting until the person responds.
I have hammered Brett pretty hard in the past and am trying to soften it up quit a bit as it does not appear to work well. I think Brett's lack of experience causes issues for him that can be avoided. He appears to be a man that is above average intelligence and sometimes does not relate well to others. It isn't that he is wrong or bad but that he needs to learn and adjust.
Brett,
I know you think I do not like you. This is not true. I do find value and merit in you. I make my difficult comments to help open up your mind to the possibility that you need to look at you and not the woman you are dating. I learned a long time ago that I cannot change people. If I could they would all be like me. How horrible would that be. You might say I am trying to change you. No, I can see from a different point of view and offer, even though it is sometimes harsh, to you. What you do with information is up to you.
I think if you would take to heart most of what the brothers here are telling you that you will find the most beautiful woman who will follow you to the end of the earth.
Shaun
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Sometimes you need tough love. Trust me.
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Brett...(and Shaun et al.)
I note that this thread from Brett has had 5943 views and 293 replies.
This is a phenominal volume of traffic for a single thread. It suggests that many, many Bros have actively participated in desperately trying to give advice and assistance because we all see GLARING issues that are de-railing Bretts attempts to establish his relationship with Ms XXXXX.
If everybody was disinterested in this, and regarded Bretts trials and tribulations as "all his own fault", then the boredom and frustration factor would have limited the traffic, as all the Bros got on with other more interesting things !
What has happened is that we all were trying so hard to get him to see that there are many obvious (to most of us) things that are going haywire, and sending so much help, each in his own way, that it seems we are simply jumping on his head.
Interaction with, and from the Bros is a two-way Street, advice and help is given freely...I know this, you all know this...and it is given in a spirit of openness and honesty...sometimes we dont like what we hear, but thats life. And if we dont want to heed the advice of the majority of well meaning people who have a lot of expertise, then so be it.
But then it gets difficult to moan about problems when advice is consitently ignored and certain offense is consistently given about that advice.
Every bloke genuinely wants Brett to succeed...but as the saying goes.."you can take a horse to water, but...."
I know that we all wish Brett well, but I also know that it sticks out like dogs Ba***s where he is doing it wrong, and nothing we say seems to get through or persuades him to modify his strategy. But still everybody keeps trying, whether with gentle hints, strong language or just plain anger and frustration.....surely thats a measure of strong support from all of us.
The easier option for us is to ignore you Brett and let you sink in your own time, but we dont do that, do we ?
IT'S NOT PERSONAL BRETT.
It's what we do, to keep trying our best to get you on the right track.
Give US some slack, tell us you understand, tell us what YOU and WE can do more, if anything.
But dont just go on blindly playing the same old tune that does not seem to be working in your favour and helping to resolve the issues with Ms XXX.
Sadly, in the light of the current reality, it seems that the chances of you and her getting together are diminishing rapidly....but there will be a next time, please, please dont go down the same track..my blood pressure cant stand it.
DavidE
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Well guys, Miss Wu has resurfaced on QQ.
A desparate situation has arisen and I don't want to talk about it. Things are bad for Miss Wu. Very bad.
But let me state this now. The problems are unrelated to our relationship. The crazy guy who posts here is not the caring considerate guy who Miss Wu knows. I have many personas. I guess I have China Shark Mike qualities at times. Maybe I should use the 24 hour rule when posting here as well, eh?
Miss Wu and I will have to talk about our relationship. But now is not the time.
I've not made much progress with the agency side of things. But I do seem to have found a new translator. When the time is right Miss Wu and I will talk. But now is not the time.
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Okay, I may get banned for this but I will say this.
"The crazy guy who posts here is not the caring considerate guy who Miss Wu knows."
Why? So which one are you?? The caring guy or the crazy guy? Why are you acting differently for the lady? Why are you lying to her?
She deserves to see you as you really are, not an side you choose to show her. For her this is a big thing, most Chinese ladies have not been to the western world. They do not travel as much as we do. For her to consider and eventually marry you and come to Canada/US, it is a big decision for her and a life changing one at that. In your opinion it will benefit her and maybe it will, but it is still a life changing one. Leaving everything you know behind is a huge deal and I think she deserves to see the real you before she makes that decision, not a side or facade you show her. Honestly is the most important thing in a relationship and is the foundation of all relationships, and if you can't honestly be yourself with her then why the relationships and will it last as the foundation is shakey?
Do you need any help Brett? I still have a few contacts in China.
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Hi Brett,
Sorry to hear about your situation. Hopefully things will brighten up for you and you will be able to proceed with your relationship.
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Perhaps, since you have Miss Wu's address, you can send her 30,000 to 40,000 pounds/euros, to help this poor slave girl out! You did say she works 16 hours a day and seven days a week, correct? Or something like that! I'm like you...I don't want to correspond with several woman, just one! Save your relationship! Help this poor girl out! Then by next October, when you do your annual vacation, you can meet up with her again! She will be waiting and perhaps she will hold your hand this time!
You have also, on occasions, put down U.S.A.!!! This is unbelievable...the country that save yours, during WW2(what happened to gratitude?)!!! I apologize, for what I am about to say, but I feel you are really pathetic!
Bloody hell...I hope these comments are wind-ups! :exclamation:
Anyway back to topic: there's nothing anyone can really say to help the situation other than good luck through a difficult time Brett.
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For her to consider and eventually marry you and come to Canada/US, it is a big decision for her and a life changing one at that.
If Brett marries her than hopefully she will not end up in the countries you mentioned because he is based in Colchester, UK. The World is bigger than just Canada/US!!!!
Mind you would I inflict Colchester on anyone????? That is a more difficult question.!!!!!:icon_cheesygrin: Just joking Brett.
Willy
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Willy,Brett I apologize on the wrong country but my meaning is still there. If you replace US/Canada with Colchester, UK then everything I said/wrote is there. This move isn't a easy choice. When my parents left China in 1988, they left everything behind.. family, friends, their home, furniture, their jobs. I saw how hard it was on them to do so. I can imagine how hard it is for the ladies.
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Willy,Brett I apologize on the wrong country but my meaning is still there. If you replace US/Canada with Colchester, UK then everything I said/wrote is there. This move isn't a easy choice. When my parents left China in 1988, they left everything behind.. family, friends, their home, furniture, their jobs. I saw how hard it was on them to do so. I can imagine how hard it is for the ladies.
No problem as far as I am concerned but I sometimes find Americans and Canadians a little insular at times.
I left UK with no qualms whatoever. My only problem will be if I am ever not permitted to stay in China for the rest of my life. I have no children, as I have only sisters in UK who I keep in touch with, by telephone, the same as i did in the UK. I stay here because I prefer to have one happy lady who has all her family within a bus ride.
Willy
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Yes my eventual Chinese lady will have to move to the UK. I have put that in my profile and I tell them about it in my first EMF.
Of course, if they are rich then I'll be off to Asia in an instant hee hee.
Maybe in 3-4 years time I would be in a position to move to Asia. I would love to move out there, but it requires a lot of planning. If it were that straightforward every man in Britain would move to Thailand!
Moving to the UK would be hard for my lady. But I have a few things in my favour. Where I work there are 1000+ Chinese students, and world class language teaching facilities. The UK is one of the most multicultural countries on the planet. Chinese food is immensely popular here, and there are around a million people of Chinese descent in the country . I live less than an hour from London, and there is a decent Chinatown there. I haven't found anywhere that sells that pineapple fruit beer stuff though :@.
Miss Wu's family problems are going to make it difficult for her to live so far from home. It is an extraordinarily difficult decision. I am not particularly close to my own family, but she very close to hers. On the other hand she wrote in her profile that she was looking for a Western man and she knows she would have a far better quality of life in a Western country. Many are faced with the same issue - do they spend their life caring for their aging parents, or prioritise caring for their own children? Life is very tough.
As to my personality - well the guys who have actually met their Chinese ladies will know that they will not put up with any nonsense :icon_cheesygrin:. Miss Wu is of Shanghai and Sichuan ancestry, which does scare me at times to be honest :icon_cool:.
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Brett I am very glad your Miss Wu turned up I wish you the best and hope everything works out for you
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Thanks Ron!
I had a longer QQ session with Miss Wu today.
It turns out her mother is still in hospital. I think it is fairly serious. On the other hand I have heard that Chinese hospitals tend to overplay things (IV drips for antibiotics etc.), so perhaps they keep people in for far longer than is necessary. This whole sorry saga was started by that cold snap in late October - 5,000 years of history and yet the Chinese solution to cold weather is to put on a coat and bobble hat while indoors and hope for the best.
What has made things worse is that Mr Wu is also now in hospital, I guess the strain of looking after his wife and the apartment was too much. Miss Wu always tells me that there are endless things to do - I guess they spend a lot of time shopping for fresh food and cooking, but I don't know what other chores there are. When I was in Wuhan it seemed as if people spent most of the day hanging their laundry out to dry.
As you can imagine Miss Wu is feeling pretty low. They have family helping out but Miss Wu still has to work. I tried to raise her spirits with some dancing bananas on QQ but they didn't work their usual magic.
Unfortunately it will cost too much for her to post my recently completed scarf to the UK, so I might have to make do with a photo of said scarf. I'm disppointed as I know how much you guys like it when your ladies send you stuff you can touch and feel. Does anyone know how much postage costs are in China? I guess if airmail is the same as the UK then posting the scarf might cost her a day's wage.
Anyway, I have ordered some more RMB from my bank and I'll send some cash out to cover costs. She doesn't like me sending money but I feel I have to do something. Does anyone know how much hospitals cost in China? Mrs Wu has been in for a month so that must be a pretty substantial sum. They're free in the UK so we are very lucky (although our taxes are much higher, obviously!!!).
As to our relationship, we are still translatorless. Strangely the more Chinese I learn the worse my Google translations get.
When things are settled down a bit I will have to find out what has happened to my lady's relationship with her agency. I think the person I made contact with at chnlove could translate for us, or maybe chnlove themselves have a system for agency-less women. I'll have to find out if my lady owes them money, although it's not going to be easy to prise that information out of her.
In the longer term I guess there are huge question marks about our relationship. Miss Wu's parents want her to have a good future and I guess they're hoping for grandchildren. I now know that we have to *really* address the issue of her parents. I have always known this, but they aren't that old and I did not think we would have major issues so soon in the relationship. I thought we had this angle covered (I specifically asked her in a few EMFs), but it needs revisiting. I guess like many people Miss Wu has an agonising decision ahead - does she prioritise looking after her parents, or does she prioritise her future husband and children (if she has them). Maybe we could make things better for them, like install heating in their apartment or arrange for some home help. Maybe moving to the coast would help, but I doubt I have the funds available to arrange this.
The events of the last few weeks have made me realise now that a man needs to feel wanted. It is the most important thing that I want in a relationship. If Miss Wu leaves her heart in China then our marriage would be over in a year. But I have stated from EMF #1 that my girl must move to the UK so she knows my feelings on this.
When things settle down we'll have a gigantic amount of talking to do!
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Hi Brett,
The parents issue might be a non issue, I don't know if she has siblings, but if she doesn't or if she is the eldest, she has to take care of her parents, that is the tradition and the way it's done, no retirement plan in China except for party members. This can be sorted from the UK as well by sending financial support if needed, but she still might to go back and take care of her parents should one be sick or something similar.
So again, take it easy :icon_cheesygrin:
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Yeah, she's an only child so I knew that we'd have to take care of the parents. They do have pensions though, although I guess they could be pretty modest. I don't know what hospitals charge but there could be some hefty bills on the way. Life in China is very hard when things go this badly wrong.
Anyway, I did a bit more digging in our latest QQ session. Apparently the relationship with the agency is over. It sounds as if she was on a fixed term contract or something, and that has now expired. I don't doubt that there's more to this than I'm being told :fi_lone_ranger:.
I'm looking for a new translator so I can resume some proper lines of communication.
Apparently the postage costs for my scarf would have been a month's living expenses for the family. Fortunately it's unseasonably warm in the UK at the moment, so I'll make do with a photo of the scarf :icon_cheesygrin:.