China Romance
General Discussion and Useful Links => The Campfire => Topic started by: Scottish_Rob on October 22, 2009, 06:24:30 am
-
Guys
After all the shit that went on about Keren and I. You all know how bad and hurt I feel and still do. Well I decided that so this would maybe help towards stopping this type of thing happening again. I sent a letter of complaint to the Customer Care (CC) team about the way things transpired for me.
Hello
My name is Robert O'Donnell, my account number is CM6733276.
The lady I contacted is Kathy (Ke Ren) Wang, the agency she is from is the one in Qingdao...
On November 30th 2009 I received a reply to a cupid I had sent to this lady the day before. I only started sending emf's to her from December 24th 2008. From then until now I have sent nearly 150 emf's to her, and she has responded on 130 occasions.
In this time our relationship grew and we got closer, so 'we' thought a visit would be a good thing. I purchased plane tickets to the tune of £663.00 (7293 Yuan), I sent her £200.00 (2200 Yuan) to book a hotel. I have got the Visa which cost £90.00 (990 Yuan) I asked my lady to marry me and she agreed. So I have also bought presents for her and her family, this is not to mention the amount of credits that has been bought by me, which is somewhere in the region of 300, please check your records for the right amount.
I was due to go to Qingdao on November 15th 2009
Anyway I received this letter from her today 13th October...
I feel cheated by this lady because I find it shocking, irresponsible and cruel, just three words that spring to mind. Whatever her intentions were, the damage is criminal. A year of my life has been wasted. In the exchange of 280 letters, she needed to discuss her main worry, which she KNEW was potentially relationship-breaking. To not do that is, at best, irresponsible, and, at worst, cruel. No one deserves to be treated like this. How dare she close the door on you, not even allowing for the possibility of discussion. Family loyalty is one thing, but this is the final insult. Ke Ren had looked at my profile and saw everything about me. i explained to her about me being only 143 cms tall she is 160 cms tall. She told me this would not be a problem We discussed this on many occasions and still 'she' came back with It's Ok
I sincerely hope I can dust myself off and find an HONEST woman, whose relationship is more important to her than the ignorant opinions of family members.
Here is her final letter...
I received the STANDARD reply, been sent to. 3 letters have been exchanged between CC and I so far... Below is the one I received from them this morning !!!
Dear Rob,
Ni hao! Thanks again for your message. Firstly, we would like to thank you for your patience on this issue. Hope things are getting better.
Please be informed that we have forwarded your request to our Intendance Dept. They will contact the agency, P656 and try to collect this info during their investigation. Again, we would appreciate your patience at the moment. Once they have the result, we will contact you by email earliest.
On the other hand, though the problem seems to be caused by the communication between you and your lady, considering the lady, P656032 - Kathy Wang's insincerity during your communication and the negative effect she had caused to you, our Intendance Dept has hidden her profile from Chnlove. In this way, she will not receive more letters from other gentlemen, or use our service anymore. And before this problem is solved, we will not post her profile again and reserve the right to terminate her membership completely from Chnlove. Please setyour heart at rest.
Again, thanks for your time and support to our service. If you have other question or concern, please feel free to contact us, we will be glad to help you.
Kind regards,
Flora Tsui
Chnlove Customer Care
Will let you know further details when I get them:icon_biggrin:
-
I hope they come good for something. The problem with these investigations, is its too easy for an agency to cover its tracks.
-
Rob im a bit lost here did you not wright her dad a letter trying to change his mind about you being a short guy so you to can be togaver ill shut up if im wrong ?
-
Yes mate wrote, sent, and delivered to the agency at least. Decided to do it through emf, so the translator could translate the letter to her father...
Ronan's idea, which I took
-
Sorry rob i must of missed that bit still think its a load of poo about hight geez what diffrence if you are 5 feet tall or 6 feet tall dont make you any better man for it sorry ill shut up now,all the best rob.
regards vic.
-
I hope they come good for something. The problem with these investigations, is its too easy for an agency to cover its tracks.
You got that right. I am dealing with a situation similar to that. More later once it is resolved.
Rob, be careful and notice who the send to investigate. My first investigation report back the investigator was the manager of the agency. Can you guess what he said? Anyone? Hmmmmm??? There are not any problems here!!!
I told them to try again and use a real investigator. Not heard back yet.
-
Mate I know this sound stupid...And I don't mean to bring the forum into this kind of topic. But Ladies EVERYWHERE (I Think) well all the British woman do)) relate height to the size your your dangler...
Even the old adage 'it's not the size it's what you can do with it that counts...' Does not really make a difference UNTIL they sleep with you and find out
Sorry for being blunt guy's...
-
Hmm, this is a sad story. I hope it has a happy ending. From my limited experience, however, I would add that Chinese women do seem reluctant at bringing up important topics to discuss. I don't know if other brothers have experienced similar issues.
-
Hi Rob.
I hope you get something good out of this in the end..:)
You say you have your plane ticket and visa paid for? Maybe you are anyway, but why not still go? You will have a great time, even if it is just a sight seeing visit, maybe you could go to the agency and see if they have any other ladies to hook you up with? Failing that, you could meet up with brothers who are out there, and who knows, either they or their wives/girlfriends could have a friend to introduce you too? Just a thought...:icon_cheesygrin:
-
It's all set Wills...I'm Still going there and going to take up a job offer that I have...Just have to speak to them in person while I'm there...:icon_cheesygrin:
-
Glad too hear... Go for it bro, you'll love it...Try not to eat too much bao zi :icon_cheesygrin:
-
Rob
It begins to look like CHNLove will blame the whole saga on KeRen....saying she is the only one cheating, banning her from the Site..."so solly Mr Rob"........"what more can we do "
I am sure the "Intendance Department" will do their usual trick...which is to make sure that their "intendance" is NOT to give you any refunds. !!!!!...but cover the whole thing in Beaurocratic Bull****it.
Put this one down to experience Mate and move on...lotta good stuff heading your way over the next few months :icon_cheesygrin::icon_cheesygrin:
Cheers
DavidE
-
Rob
It begins to look like CHNLove will blame the whole saga on KeRen....saying she is the only one cheating, banning her from the Site..."so solly Mr Rob"........"what more can we do "
I am sure the "Intendance Department" will do their usual trick...which is to make sure that their "intendance" is NOT to give you any refunds. !!!!!...but cover the whole thing in Beaurocratic Bull****it.
Put this one down to experience Mate and move on...lotta good stuff heading your way over the next few months :icon_cheesygrin
Cheers
DavidE
Yeah mate...I checked she has been hidden...:icon_biggrin:
I am sure that there was a member before who was scammed, and he threatened them with 'Someone' in a higher (Government I think) office or something like that, but cannot remember who it was?:huh:
But yeah that's what I'm gonna have to do mate...
And your right there is a lot of good things heading my way.:icon_cheesygrin::icon_cheesygrin:
Although and I think this is funny now, I got an admire letter from a lady in Beijiing so I answered it. However, I had already sent a cupid to this lady in Guangxi and She' responded so I did what any red blooded male would do...I responded to her:dodgy:.. NOW (lol) when I also responded to the lady in Beijiing, I mentioned the other lady's name, and thanked her for the answer to my cupid?...Are you following me?:huh: So earlier today while I was going through the letters and reading them, I realised this mistake and thought OH SHIT (lol):blush: So it bloody cost me another credit to send the lady Beijiing):@ But it's ok i may have retrieved the situation...I sent her a long (long) letter of apology, (full of remorse etc) I even specifically mentioned things from both her admire letter and also her profile, so hopefully this will work:icon_biggrin:
-
Hahaha Rob
When you write to several...you gotta keep good records or you get confused !!!!!....been there, done that !!!
David
-
An email I received tonight once I logged on...It's from Jennifer the AGENCY BOSS
I have responded with an email back to her...In it I was calm, and collected
But first the email from her...
Rob:
I really don't know what you are doing now?
This side, you are so nice to ask my help about your coming to Qingdao, other side, you complain to chnlove, think everything is our fault, what did I do to hurt you so bad, so you must hurt me back? I can say I am the best agency of chnlove , I know you have so many net friend who you know from this site, they told me, so please go and ask them, if they did come to qingdao, ask them what kind of agancy we are, ask them what kind of person I am, I am honest and kind, I never cheat people, but you forget one important thing, that is I can't control my ladies, how can I???
Ke Ren decided to break up with you, this doesn't mean she is cheater, or we were lie to you, people always have right to choose, right????? I know you spend a lot of money on writing her letters, this just like----if you dating with a girl in England your country, you spend a lot of money to invited her for dinner, flowers, dating and so on, when you guys break up, you will ask all the money back from that girl???? Really??? If you do, I don't think any girl wants you, because that's is such stingy, I don't believe you will do that.
See, this is the same thing, you spend a lot of money on writing her, but when you guys break up, you want her pay you back??? Is that really you want? Today, when she told me, she said, You just break her last love from her heart, she can't image she fall in love with a stingy man like this, she is so dispointed, I know you think you gave the money to the website, but this is why she can have a translator to talk to you, how can you do that????? And in fact, the letter were destroy, very simple, because the father angry with her, he did.
Rob, I can't charge you, because I don't have the power, but you need to learn that let it go, let it go, things happened, you can't get her back, so take it, I know it's hard for you, but all you did now, hurt me, hurt her more, and you get nothing result, the only thing I can tell you, nobody cheat on you, you just get hurt from your own feeling, if you change your mind, you will find there are many more girls is waiting for you, and there will be just a right one there.
We are chinese, I know so people got cheated from chinese, that doesn't mean every chinese will cheat on you, and you can't look down us, because your country also have many cheater, everywhere in this world, always good people, bad people, you can't charge people before you meet them.
I am very upset now , because I am ready to help you, but got so many complain for the web, because you, I don't know how can you do that????
Why you just can't be a easy person, let it go, let it go, when you are so tigh, nobody want to close to you, because we don't know if we can't make you happy, you will punish us, but you don't have the right to do that, you don't have the right to hurt people who is willing to help you.
Think about my words, and ask some men who already been here, and we can talk again next time.
Nice day
Jennifer
My response to this email...
Jennifer
See Jennifer, I knew something like this would happen because of my 'Complaint' to Chnlove. This is why in our recent correspondence I wanted to meet up with you, as I mentioned to you 'We can talk about this then', remember...
I don't know why you think this of me..I HAVE NOT set out to hurt you or your agency
Firstly please let me explain my side to you then you can make up your mind about me and my reasons for my actions..
There will be some words that I am putting in capital letters Jennifer, this is just so I can emphasize these points, please don't think I am shouting. I am writing this letter to you in a controlled and calm manner.
First... let me tell you I DID NOT complain ABOUT YOU or your agency...
I have a couple of friends that have been there to your agency and I have heard nothing but praise about how good it is.
Second, WHAT I complained about was the way I FEEL I was LEAD ON by KEREN..
IF you look at your records you will see that I first contacted Keren on 30th November 2008. I done this by sending a cupid note to her, because she looked so beautiful and I was so attracted to her. After she responded to to this note, I wrote a proper letter to her on 24th December and from then until 13th October we sent over 280 Emf's each way. I sent to her 150, and she responded by sending me 130 back, of this I have each letter to and from each other.
Now, from the very first letter I told Keren about my height 143 cms, which I knew 'COULD' possibly be a problem. I done this because I had spoken to another lady some months before and she told me her father did not approve, but this was done after only 8 letters to her and 8 letters back to me. That ladies name I have and the province she lives in. I did NOT complain about that lady, and 'WHY', the reason will become clear.
I am a good Western man Jennifer, please believe this. If Keren had told me 'I don't fancy you' or 'It will not work out' then I could have accepted this gracefully. In MANY of our letters to and from Keren we spoke about my height, because I ASKED her to make sure it was ok. In every response I was told, "My family love you, or miss you...YOUR HEIGHT IS NOT A PROBLEM..DON'T WORRY" I have copies of all the letters that were sent to me, I can 'show them to you' if this is what you want.
Jennifer yes I am hurt about 'our' split...IF, as I have said, I was told that this 'Height thing' would have been a problem many months ago, I would have WALKED AWAY, AND THANKED HER FOR HER HONESTY. However, she has taken 42 weeks (294 days), or 9 months and 2 weeks, to TELL me there was a problem, BUT SHE NEVER DONE THIS...Until the 12th October 2009.
In that 9 and a half months of communicating with her I fell completely head over heels in love with her.
I have never been outside my country before, in fact I have only ever been an a Plane once in my life. Now since I got to know her, I decided that I would come there for a visit. So I bought a passport, and visa, I bought the plane ticket to Qingdao, and as you know, I sent her money to pay for the hotel... I also made arrangements to LIVE and TEACH in QINGDAO because I did not want to take her away from HER FAMILY OR SURROUNDINGS...
Now Keren and I were in love I felt that I asked her to marry me...She said yes. So I applied and paid for my single status declaration certificate and got it translated in mandarin, because 'WE' planned to get married when I got there. You are correct Keren does have the right to change her mind...And yes you are right that in England we will pay for flowers and date a lady, taking her to dinner etc. But there is a difference here. SHE did not split from me because of the reasons I mentioned, SHE split with me because her father did not approve of my HEIGHT...Surely even you can see the difference? YOU said in this email to me "you can't charge people before you meet them", Jennifer HER FATHER DID. He looked down on ME, That man did not know me, nor give me the chance for him to get to know me..
I am NOT being Stingy here, please believe this. If i was being 'Stingy' I would not have booked the plane and spent all that money, now would I?
Jennifer, there are things that maybe YOU DON'T know? In a few of my letters I asked for a Webcam view for us to meet 'face to face', she would not do it? I asked for phone number (she gave this to me) but would not answer her phone after the first or 2nd call. I asked for Yahoo address so there was another way of communicating (she gave me this) but only answer a couple of times. SHE did not make any effort. I KNOW WHAT the money is paid for and I AGREE with it. However, do you not agree with me that SHE SHOULD HAVE TOLD ME EARLIER? SAY ROUND ABOUT FEBRUARY 2009???
I sent Keren the letters to Keren's father so see if there was achance that I could get him to change his mind..Keren DID not even have the decency to contact me and say "NO, he won't change his mind" or " I cannot show him the letters...I was being Sincere, and I know Sincerity in your country is huge, where was Kerens sincerity towards me?
I am resigned that Keren and I are over
I have not done this thing to be TIGHT or to HURT you...YOU MUST SEE MY POINT OF VIEW.
I am still coming to Qingdao, and my search is now on for another lady...If you would help then it will be appreciated, if you don't want to help, that is fine too... My next lady will be starting with me on a clean slate..I do not take things out of anyone from something that was done to me before...
I have read your words and thinking on them, give me the curtiousy of doing the same with my words...I hope to see you when I arrive in your beautiful city...
Yours
Rob
-
Wowww...
I don't really like how Jennifer replied. If she's the agency's boss, she should had been more "curious" about your letter and tried to better understand your point of view. For sure she didn't read the letters between you and Keren, and I would say : "what a pity"...
I agree that sincerity is always "well appreciated" when man is with someone.
Whatever it is in England, or France, or any other country, well, you asked Keren if your height was a problem, she always said "no", so, if she said "yes" at the end, for sure, she wasn't honest at all..
How can Jennifer compare and saying "inviting for diner"??? If that would be like that, for sure, you would have known about your height, if that would be a problem or not... Ok, you can send flowers without seeing her, but.... "dating/inviting to diner"... ====> lol ; that means you will have a "face to face" with the lady... Keren didn't let you any chance about it in her last letter... even Jennifer isn't really "honest" (I think).
You are a nice guy, you waited many months and did many things to show Keren you loved her..
Well.. to see that the agency doesn't want to "give you back" even half your credits, I just think that is purely "commercial business"...
I don't know how you can feel now, Rob, but now, for sure, Jennifer must understand your point of view.
Whatever you sent money to Keren or not, it is anyway your choice.
Well. I just hope things could be in your "side" and that Jennifer will understand your point of view. If not, you still can "reload" your complaint about chnlove, saying there's really something wrong...
As I read again Jennifer's letter, for sure, she doesn't really seem to help you. Sorry but it's my point of view... :-/
-
Mate I know this sound stupid...And I don't mean to bring the forum into this kind of topic. But Ladies EVERYWHERE (I Think) well all the British woman do)) relate height to the size your your dangler...
Even the old adage 'it's not the size it's what you can do with it that counts...' Does not really make a difference UNTIL they sleep with you and find out
Sorry for being blunt guy's...
Sorry Rob I thought it was the size of your feet they checked on.
I hope I am right because wearing shoes 3 sizes too large for years and it has ruined my feet but given other parts lots of comfort!!! :icon_cheesygrin:
Willy
-
I do agree with what Mike has to say, but Mike, i do not I do not believe that Rob is actually blaming the agency here at all, but more so Karen, and i too would possibly have written a letter to Chnlove telling them about how she led me on, as it is their customer care we write to and not the affiliated agency right? I think that Karen is definitely the one at fault here, and Rob is just looking for answers, And Karen did let this go on way too long before she said something, she new from the start about Robs height, and it was not an issue. Surely she must have mentioned something to the family before letting it go on this long? She must have told them about Rob right? I mean she agreed to marry him, so they must have asked her questions about him? And then to do this in the 11th hour? Seem a little suss to me, Ok, i know that if you read some of my posts, i kinda can be a little quick to think something is going on behind my back, but Rob, have you only heard from Karen that this was the issue? We all know that the Chinese and their families are all about respect, family loyalty etc, do you think that this excuse could have been a ''get out'' excuse so no other questions would be asked? I hate to say it but maybe there was another reason to why Karen ended things but she used the height/family one as she thought it may be easier than telling the real reason? I'm sure i'm wrong, but just a thought...
Andy...
-
It's over...It was never about the agency!!!!
Just to add... In a sense I agree with Jennifer to some extent, the ladies has the RIGHT to change her mind. However Keren DID NOT change her mind, HER father changed HER mind, because of ego/face call it what you will.
The reason I posted the email was to show the brothers that they chnlove will not blame their women, it is all our fault!!!
She called me Stingy, I was the one who spent the money on these things, not Jennifer or Keren!
She called me tight? If I was tight, there was no way I would have spent what I did to send emf's, birthday present, flowers, presents for the family etc etc.
I posted this email because I was angry that from HER viewpoint, SHE has the gall to BLAME ME...my fault that my 'feelings' were hurt? This was Kerens lies that caused this not me...
I sent her an email today telling her I have requested that Chnlove drop my complaint. WHY?? BECAUSE I knew I need to be on good terms with them..It Fucking stinks!!! But, this one is GETTING put down to experience.
The truth of the matter is and if you read the my response to the email from Jennifer IT was about the truth from Keren...
Mods please close
-
Rob, you have every reason to be angry with Ke Ren, she was looking for it and hurt you badly, there is absolutely no excuse, not for such a long time. It's a pity you can't get back at her, unfortunaltely your anger is now hurting the agency who came clean it seems. After all we expect them to translate honestly, and it seems they did. I find the agency' reference to dating at home quite realistic, it will quickly cost a few hundred Euro to get to know a girl in France between going out, flowers etc ... and you have no guarante of sincerity or anything else as a matter of fact.
So even if I would like to say that you should get your credits back, I do appreciate you a lot and sent an EMF to support your case with Ke Ren,I don't think that you are entitled to get the credits reimbursed because neither the Chnlove service or the agency are at fault. It's all about Ke Ren, and you can't hold anyone else responsible for her failure to be truthful other than her. Chnlove could push some free credits your way because with 280 EMF's, you're a really good customer, but I think that is all one could expect.
I would even suggest writing to Chnlove customer service and making clear to them that you are not unhappy with the agency, just unhappy with the girl who was dishonest. Business is hard for everyone in China, and I think you are hurting that agency now.
Also on a side note, I would recommend to make your peace with the disappointment and let your heart heal before engaging in new adventures. You will make the wrong choices if your heart is still bleeding, unless you're only looking to be comforted which you will probably achieve when writing to new ladies, but then you're poising yourself to hurt them in the future, well what I mean is: just be careful, for yourself too, ok mate?
-
Yes Rob has every reason to be angry.
But now I have been to China I understand. It is a hard place to live. I don't know if money was the motive here. But if you can make a little extra money from a Westerner then of course you're going to take that opportunity.
Today my lady told me her income from her job. For a 50 hour week she gets 1000 RMB a month. That was a revelation to me. China is a cheaper place to live than the UK, but it's not that much cheaper.
-
Voice...The day after I got the email from the agency I sent one 2 off myself...
One to Jennifer to APOLGIZE because IT WAS NOT HER OR THE AGENCY.
And the second one to Customer Care to tell them to drop it.
After speaking to a couple of the guys through PM, I realized that I needed the agency (maybe?).
So I have chalked this down to experience, and have moved on.
-
Hehe yes the agency could be of great value!
-
Hello Robert, your story is one of the few that make my heart sink because it brings a lot of memory back to my mind. I know some men who were hurt more deeply than you were but kept gentle silence. I appreciate both their tolerance and your courage. And I even know some Chinese women who lost more than you did in their sad stories ( in some cases even their chastity ). They either lack your courage or have no such custom care to seek for help as that you have turned to. Rationally speaking, I have neither the least nor the most sympathy on your story. Personally speaking, come on boy, we are always beside you!
I don't believe truth will be finally revealed in your story. By truth I mean Keren's and Jennifer's real thoughts and their private communication. If I let doubt or trust control my mind, I can weave totally opposite versions of your story with added details from my imagination. Perhaps her father does have a strong control in her life or perhaps it’s a one of the usual tricks to reject less qualified candidates when the time to make big decisions comes. I believe you’ll never know who truly deserves the blame in your story unless you have some super power to look into people’s heart. So let it go.
The reason you pay for EMFs is that they are done by human beings instead of machines. The superiority of human beings over machines, I believe, is heart. I understand the responsibility of an agency or a translator is difficult to define. But I don’t expect double standard. If we translators choose to jump aside and say, “it’s not my fault. I just do my work.” when cheating occurs, we ought to jump aside and say, “it’s not my effort. I just do my work.” when applause of success welcomes us.
Anyways I wish you enjoy a nice trip, preferably on your own, for sight-seeing. Take it easy, love and marriage is not something we can rush into.
-
After my apologies to Jennifer, I asked her if I would still be collected at the airport, and if she was still getting me a hotel sorted. Here is her answer...
Sorry Rob:
I didn't have computer for few days, sorry reply late.
I understand your feeling, that's why I will try my best to help you find your way in Qingdao if you are really coming.
China is a good country, but it's not that good like you thought, I will try to find you a job, and I already arranged a place so that you can live for a month, and then after you find your way here, you can move out.
And I can tell you Keren is a weak woman, she doesn't know what she really want, so forget her and move on, let it go, you will find a better woman.
I am not angry, I am ok, we always friends, I just hope you can understand I can't control these ladies, they have their own ideas, it's a big pitty you lost her, but maybe it's a good thing you found out the truth before you got married.
NIce day
Jennifer
so this has made me feel a little at ease, it seems the 'Flat' situation is sorted...So 19 days to go, Oh and I got another email about work two hours from Qingdao too this morning. Just sent them an email so...:icon_biggrin:
-
Rob,
I just replied to your flats and apartment thread, what a waste of time that was:icon_cheesygrin:
Sounds like your up and running my friend! Great news, this is just what was needed !:icon_cheesygrin::icon_cheesygrin::icon_cheesygrin:
MingZhi,Paul
-
I am not a Godly sort of person guys, but I do have to say this...
"Out of the darkness comes light..."
-
Theres allways light at the end of a tunnel rob but some times that bloody tunnal long.
-
Theres allways light at the end of a tunnel rob but some times that bloody tunnal long.
Hehe, I can't but agree with that ;)
Jennifer's note is quite surprising, maybe the way things are turning out is good after all.
-
Now and again Rob, the light at the end of the tunnel is the bloody train coming :icon_cheesygrin::icon_cheesygrin::icon_cheesygrin:
But for you it is the light of sweet reason (hahahah)
Cheers Mate...thought you had sold your computer !!!!
DavidE