China Romance
General Discussion and Useful Links => Ask An Experienced Member => Topic started by: pr1969 on November 04, 2009, 06:36:20 am
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Dear all,
I'm a new member here and, after experiencing some bad things on Chnlove myself and reading similar horror stories here, I have the following idea (please excuse me if this has been brought up already!):
Why don't all of us form a union, headed by the most experienced member here and/or someone with a legal background (lawyer/attorney)?
Then, the head of our union can write Chnlove management a letter of demand on our behalf, asking that they immediately halt any dubious business practices, sever ties with dishonest agencies and implement strict new rules on their website.
They will surely realise that, if they ignore our request, they will not only lose serious business (i.e. money) but serious credibility too. I believe that, on the whole, they are trying to help us find true love out there but need to be steered in the right direction by - you guessed it - us!
The letter from our union head can include a list of all the collective complaints we have that need to be addressed ASAP, in order for us to continue using Chnlove (i.e. ladies disappearing overnight, fake pics, fake letters - the list goes on & on).
Thank you all in advance for reading my post & hoping to hear back from as many of you in this regard as possible. Let's get this sorted in earnest - if we're all in then we all win!
All the best from South Africa :) Peter
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Peter,
Good idea but we need to be more than a drop in a bucket. If we were the main source of their income they might listen but until then I don't give it much hope.
This is only my opinion and I know it is negative but I do believe it is realistic.
Shaun
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Peter, your a few months late. We already had a class action letter sent to Chnlove. It's on here somewhere?
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Shaun, thanks for your comments. I'm a bit confused now as I thought we WERE Chnlove's only - if not main - source of income. Could you shed some more light on this for me?
Vince, thanks for letting me know about the class action. Could you give me the link to the class action letter that was sent? Also, what was the end result and response from Chnlove? If it was not resolved in our favour, would the union be a good idea & has it been done here before? What I'm suggesting is a you slight one of us you slight us all approach, whereby we all cease use of a particular agency etc. if one of our union members is scammed.
Best, Peter
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Peter, I literally love your idea. It's the kind of effort I hope we can make, to make chnlove a cleaner site rather than accpet its filthiness and teach new members to start with cynical or doubtful attitudes, althought I know most of my posts fail to do the former but help the latter.
As to "asking that they immediately halt any dubious business practices, severe ties with dishonest agencies and implement strict new rules on their website", I believe we need more discussion to find out some practical measures they can carry out rather than making abstract demands. Surely patience and art of negotion will be needed in the process.
Let me start with some measures I've already thought of.
Chnlove has launched a "text message informing" system about 3 or 4 months ago, whose function is to inform the lady a new EMF has reached her account by sending a text message to her cell phone. Now more than 95% ladies have cell phone so the system meets no technical barriers. The only pullback is that chnlove is not implementing it thoroughly. Only new joining ladies after the date when this system is launched are required to link their cell phone number to their EMF account, older ladies are not required to. And the sending of text messages are via translators, meaning by them clicking a button on the page of coming EMF to finish the action of sending, which action most translators ignor because there's no presure on them.
To be logical and considerate, I think to make the sending of text message automatic will be a spare of translators' labour while incurring no substantial difficulty or burden onto chnlove techonical system. But obviously agencies will have enough secret reasons to reject this new measure and chnlove will weigh between their reluctance and our complaint. I just wonder if there are any legal ground for our side to make such a demand. At least this one is more practical than another one to ask them to attach in every EMF original and translated versions of letters.
It's so far all that on my mind. I will keep thinking and look eagerly forward to better ideas.
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Hi Proteus - many thanks for your support and suggestions. What you say is an excellent idea. As I'm a newbie here, is there anyone (maybe Vince) - possibly with a legal background - who could help collate all our different thoughts into one cohesive document, so we can then proceed with forming a union and getting cracking ASAP? Most of us here are not rich (me included) and it's shameful that people are being fleeced in this manner. What Chnlove must surely realise is that, if they keep things honest and above board (which is actually very easy to do), their business will boom as they will be one of the few - if not ONLY - honest marriage websites out there. And, guess who everyone will be using then? You guessed it, Chnlove! Best, Peter
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Peter,
Yes we are the only source for chnlove but we are not. This site is only about 300 men strong if I remember correctly. Active members I am assuming is much less. I read somewhere that there are about 5000 women on chnlove so they say they have around 8200 profiles. I am assuming the mean men and women. So we only represent at best 10% of the men on chnlove.
The agencies have a much larger net than chnlove. There are many sites that with Chinese women on it. I am a member of another site that has 50000 active profiles. I find some of these women on both sites. That is just 2 sites, there are many more plus we are in competition with Chinese men.
The individual agencies have actual control not chnlove. So, grasshopper we are a small drop in the large bucket of life.
Shaun
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So, grasshopper we are a small drop in the large bucket of life.
More like a spittoon then a bucket :s
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Hi Shaun. Thanks for shedding more light on this for me. Call me naive but I still believe that forming a union will make a dent in their pocketbooks, no matter how small. And, everyone knows how one person's bad experience can reach 1000's of others on the internet overnight, so they know that - even though we may be a small force - we're to be reckoned with! In addition, I feel we need to be proactive in recruiting more members. I'm a newbie so does anyone have any ideas on how this could be done? Actually, if you think about it, we're here to protect not only ourselves but also the interests of Chnlove. Surely they don't want to be viewed as a dodgy setup, like most other dating/marriage websites out there? Best till later :) Peter
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Peter here is the link to the page. "Letter to Chnlove"
http://www.chnlove.info/showthread.php?tid=186
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Peter,
I am not against it rather I am for it but just being practical. I already told chnlove I am not buying anymore credits until they step up to the plate in a bigger way when it comes to issues like I just went through. Do I think I will get anywhere? No, but I spoke my mind politely. I am on another site for now.
Shaun
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Hi Shaun & Vince & thanks again for your comments - much appreciated. Vince, thanks for sending me the class action letter link. I've had a look through & also at Chnlove's response - I'm afraid to say that their response does little to allay my concerns and is mostly fluff - very little substance. What I had in mind by forming a union would be something like the following: the next time one of our members is cheated, such as receiving a letter from Changsha Love Bridge agency asking if he'd like to see sexy pics of a girl he has not even corresponded with yet, the head of the union immediately fires off a note to Chnlove management detailing this and saying that, unless the matter is addressed immediately and a suitable conclusion reached, ALL union members will IMMEDIATELY cease dealings with that company AND cease buying credits until such time as the matter is resolved. Now, if this keeps on occurring and Chnlove starts being bombarded by these union letters, at some stage, even they will realise that enough is enough. They will then need to decide - sort the bad agencies out or get rid of 300 odd paying clients and many more due to the bad press this would result in. I know which way they would have to go and it would have to be in our favour. Another thought I had is the following: Chnlove have no idea how many members we have, nor how many potential members they could gain through friends or colleagues of members on this site. So, for all intents & purposes, we could have way more than 300 - maybe 3000. If they do the math plus tot up the bad publicity, it's a-no brainer. Bottom line is, enough is enough and - if someone's willing to head this up and we can get enough committed union members together (both active & non-active Chnlove members) - I feel we really should do it. The only other option is to keep seeing new (and old) members cheated until we're all so tired of this, we just give up on the whole thing altogether. I, for one, am not prepared to do that. I run a business too. If I had to cheat even one customer, my business would suffer. So, there is no reason why this should not have the same effect on Chnlove. 300 customers lost are 300 customers gained by a competitor. No-one wants that, no matter what their business. What do you all think of this? Best :) Peter
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I think we have all had some sort of similar thoughts about how to deal with CHNLove over these isues and how to use our collective "weight" to force them to properly Manage and Police their affiliated Agencies...or suffer dire financial and bad publicity if they dont.
Their "Intendance" Department (I bet even THEY dont understand that word...because it aint English ) just churns out meaningless rubbish in response to queries and complaints...its a job probably given to the Tea Lady to do in her spare time !! And as for their Agency rating system...words fail me, its like giving an alcoholic the keys to the brewery !!!!
To form a Union and to get a properly structured complaint system going is a worthy and noble objective.............
BUT, the facts as we know them are not in our favour...if we consider that the "probability of winning is directly proportional to our weight and force of numbers".
We are but a tiny, tiny piece of CHNlove and the collective Agencies' Business...they would not give a hoot if all the Bros on this Forum abandoned them. Financially they would't miss us.
Whether or not we could cause enough trouble for them in the wider International Dating Community is doubtful...remember that the lowest common denominator out there is completely uninterested in all that we say or experience...we are the ethical and serious players in this "game"...there are hundreds and thousands of paying morons out there who look for everything from a cheap thrill to a pornographic experience and all points in between.
If we form a "Legal" Union and decide to pursue this whole issue with Legal weight, then we must go the whole route....never use the "Threat" of Law to get what you want...it is a bluff and a smart operator will treat it as such.
Our impediment is that to be legally effective we MUST be prepared to make our case stick AT LAW...and not just issue idle threats.
Subsequent to this, we are then getting involved in the Minefield of Chinese law...which implies we need Chinese lawyers who will want Chinese money for this !!!!
I am more than happy to pursue any Legal issues on behalf of the Forum...but I am not qualified in Chinese Law..only Western law.
I know that what is proposed about bringing CHNLove to account is a very worthy and neccessary task...but i also am certain that they know exactly how far we can go within the difficulties I have mentioned here....that is why they have an "Intendance" Department......to fob us off.
Sorry guys, but they have the high ground...we say in Law that you never win a case where your opposition is 10 to 1 better equipped than you...I think this applies to us and CHNLove.
But I sure hope somebody can prove me wrong !!
DavidE
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Hi David - thank so much for your great reply too. I understand exactly what you're saying here - to bluff would not work. We need to do this as a proper union or not at all. Do you have any ideas how we could achieve at least some modicum of this, at little or no expense? Your thoughts would be most greatly appreciated once again. Thanks & best, Peter
Hi Jim - many thanks for your great response. I agree with what you say - how do we pull this union thing off? That's the big question! Okay, for a start, how many members would be interested in this idea? I'm a newbie here so don't want to rock the boat authority-wise! I need all member's help and support to pull this off. Remember, we all win if this succeeds. This is no joke - it's real life and these scam artists (the dodgy companies, dodgy translators & less so often, dodgy girls) are messing with our minds, playing with our heartstrings & emptying our pockets! Any and all members keen to help set this in motion, please, please contact me with your thoughts. For a start, who would be interested in joining the union? This would be a very serious commitment as it would mean that, once a member, one needs to work with the union as a whole i.e. if one of our members is scammed, even in the slightest way, we all pull rank on Chnlove until the matter is sorted. All for one, so to speak! Please contact me via inter-site mail here too if you're keen to get involved. Best to you all :) Peter
P.S. If I'm getting ahead of myself and wasting my time, please tell me! But, I really believe this could work if handled correctly. May take a while but, nothing ventured...
P.S.S. My background is inventing & the music biz, so that may explain my passion for finding solutions to things! Then again, maybe not! ;)
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Pete, what your suggesting only really works once.
I would say open up a site where guys can contact you and become the shop stewart?
Some here want to lay low, so to speak. They have there own agendas and not wanting to rock the boat. So support wise I don't see you getting it all here? so it best to hit up other forums as well.
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My two cents worth is that it is not worth the trouble and it is not even fun doing it.
I reckon the best way of approaching the problem is to use the good agencies and avoid the bad ones.
I think there is something to be said for using some of the other websites that allow you to contact a person directly (eg chinese friend finder, match.com, chinese love links, chinese cupid, etc) and keeping your focus on people who speak at least some English.
I think one of the approaches that we haven't tried yet would be some of the large marriage agencies in China that are not affiliated with chnlove. We sometimes forget that chnlove is just a small fish in a big pond. I think if we did some research on this, we could find good alternatives.
I'm not thinking about this for myself, only for the lads who are still looking about at the moment.
Danny
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Do you have any ideas how we could achieve at least some modicum of this, at little or no expense? ! ;)
Not sure what we could achieve at little or no expense. That is why they have the high ground, nobody can or will go after them SERIOUSLY at Law.....because it will cost big bucks
They know that a Western lawyer would be next to useless and I for one, could not be certain of the objectivity or impartiality of a native Chinese Lawyer pursuing a case against a local on behalf of a Western Client ???
The only way (IMHO) is to go the bad publicity route. If each one of us sent emails to all of our address books complainung about CHNLove and asked all the recipients to forward it on to their address books...I am told by knowlegable peple that this form of criticism and complaint can get to hundreds of millions of people in a matter of days and has, in the past produced some spectacular corrective actions on behalf of the Businesses that were involved....food for thought ?/
On a lighter note...I just recently had the "pleasure" of rejecting a shipment of product from China that was worth $54 million...because they had cheapskated on some marking paint that was not as per the agreed specification...the savings were about $2000 to them (in somebodys pocket no doubt) but for this piddling sum, they lost $54 million.
Maybe I could write on the rejection notice..."Heres one in your eye for all those guys that have been cheated by CHNLove :):):)"
DavidE
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Hi David - thanks again for your great reply. Definitely food for thought and I'll give what you say some serious thought. Great crack about the paint btw - yup, here's several in their eyes for cheating so many of us! ;)
Danny, Vince, Abigbutt (nice;) & Shaun - thanks very much for your comments too. I'll definitely take heed of what you both say. Stay tuned for more! Best :) Peter
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Peter I think this is a noble idea.I don't want to read the bad stories I don't want to see any of are members Cheated.But Like DavidE said in a previous post.Your not going to make a bit of difference to Chnlove.Or the different agencies.
The reason is we are only such a small part of there business.Chnlove is actually a subsidiary.Of a larger corporation.There corporate offices are in Hong Kong.They also do in country match making.And from what I understand it is quit the profitable business.
Peter I don't know how many times you have ben to China.Or If you know how they do business in China.It basically boils down to this.For a carton of cigarettes and 100.00 dollers.Given to the right government official.You can have somebody locked up.Deported,Sent to a reeducation camp.Whatever you desire.
When in China.Chinese do what Chinese do.There is no consequences or repercussions.If you have the right contacts.I know a women in China who killed another women with a stick.It was a clear cut case of self defense.She ended up doing 7 years in prison.Because the ladies husband had a friend that worked in the government.I have seen a Chinese women bribe a Chinese cop.It cost her a 100.00 Rmb.To get out of a 300.00 rmb ticket.I know of a husband and wife beaten.The wife was pushed down the stairs and broke her wrist.The police arrested the guy who did it.His family showed up at the jail laid 1000.00 Rmb on the counter and walked out with the guy.No charges were ever filed.
David said it right.They do have the high ground.This is China.They are not going to listen to a bunch of whinning foreigners.Sad but true.
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I have just stopped my self writing - I thought it said 'forming a union and nipping into bed'. But on second thoughts much more to my way of thinking.
Willy