China Romance
General Discussion and Useful Links => Ask An Experienced Member => Topic started by: markymark on November 10, 2009, 08:28:44 am
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Hi All,
I have been writing to this lady for 3 months now, earlier in our letters I suggested writing directly to each other's personal email boxes and use google online translator. I sent my personal email address and told her I would respect her decision but I did say that it might be fun to communicate this way and we could still use EMF. Needless to say that idea was knocked back saying that she did not think google was good to use and she preferred to communicate here ( via EMF ), I thought this was the translator cutting in maybe to protect any loss of revenue but then again not knowing for sure it could have been her true respnse given that she has next to nothing in english ability and my Chinese is likewise. Overall her letters have been constant in how she comes across. I have looked at what has been written about online translators. EMFs were okay for a while but I wanted to be sure I was getting her words directly and not something left to the translator to take care of. Okay we were both going to have to do some work but surely that would be part of getting to know each other, I do feel restricted in what I want to say via a translator. Also, communicating this way may possibly save her ( or me ) some fee or other, as if they are not charged enough IMO. I have never been certain if this is her true response but her letters always seem so business like or lack any warmth apart from when she said 'I was thinking about you' as she had paid for a boat trip for her family and maybe we could do a boat trip. The only other things were 'take very good care of yourself' and she thanked me for my 'warm words'. Maybe she is one who does not say such things but more likely shows you, I will not be sure until we meet and can hopefully compare letters ( if necessary ). She did praise the translator saying that she met her once and she's a very nice girl. The lady I write to is with Beijing OUI culture and information company, she lives in Chongqing so I have no idea of when or how she met the translator or if those are her actual words in describing the translator. I told her that so far I have asked the translator 3 separate questions and have never had a reply. The translator reckons she never had any questions come through. I also told her about the incident with my ADMIRAL LETTERS being renewed given that I have never read them in the first place ( on another post ). It was the translators/matchmakers fishing for revenue. She now knows I am not happy with Chnlove service or the practises that go on in the industry so I will not be buying anymore credits, we will have to find another way of communicating. I told her that I have no trust or faith in the service anymore but I still want to write and meet her also we will not have a translator forever. Afterall we are going to face this hurdle sooner or later. She knows that I care enough to meet her and that I want to teach again. One other thing, she mentioned that business at her shop was not too good and other shops had the same problem, I do not wish to put a negative slant on this but just take this as it is. I do not think she is asking for financial help, however, I had this scenario before with a woman shop owner I wrote to in Thailand some years ago who was very subtly asking for a hand out even though we had not met, needless to say I moved on.
I want to see if this relationship can ascend to another level. I feel there is enough info on this forum to overcome EMF contact. I am hoping to see just how serious we really are about this relationship and if we can make that leap of faith. What I hope to have done is to put the ball in her court and see what happens, maybe it will make or break the relationship or perhaps I have just screwed it up! Who knows? What do you think?
Cheers
Mark.
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Mark , have you had occasion yet to send her some flowers or a letter etc , or have you at least been able to get her address or phone number , as she is a long way from her agency it is not unreasonable to ask even if you do it through Chnlove proper channels , at present you are only an email , does she have a Q Q number ? you do not note your age , so in what age bracket is she , my boss { Ying ] is a ChongQing lady since birth , but we did not meet through the normal channels but any help that is required we can do . Oh and have you thought of a timetable to maybe visit her , or webcam there are numerous internet cafes as the area has a population of over 30 million and she will have a girlfriend that does speak English enough to help her .
Maybe as Scottish Rob is thinking about visiting this fair city in the near future , he may also be of help , regards Ying and Robert .
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Yeah see if she has access to QQ/MSN/Skype or just email. It would be a good idea to see her on webcam just to make sure she looks and sounds like someone you're really interested in. It's probably a good idea to keep using EMFs for important stuff though.
And yes, despite the official 8% GDP figures, business for the average Chinese person ain't great right now. Go figure.
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Mark,
only you can decide this but if it was me i think 3 months time is
enough time to at least stumble about on qq or yahoo and see
each other. the computers here in china do have translation
software were it would come across half way decent. at least all
my wifes family and freinds have this so you two could at least
read what you saying. with the push to learn english here maybe
it is standard on all computers?? not sure but its worth checking into.
your right you two have to cross this bridge eventually why not now?
sorry about the negative thoughts but i just think that chnl is not always
up front with many of their agencies. just a little thing i noticed from
all the responses being made at times. anyway my 2 cents worth
good luck with everything
ted
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My wife n I didnt get off EMF's until 3 months into writing daily. We then arranged with our translator to email a central box which the translator would receive, translate and forward on our letters. We didnt get away from translations alltogether until after we were married, at which point we use QQ and google translate ever since. I still has it's confusions but that's how it went for me.
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Hi Gents,
Thank you for your responses, I know it is all good advice and getting away from EMFs is the way to go IMHO so we can develop and nurture our relationship, afterall we have to communicate by ourselves but we can still use EMF if and when necessary. One thought that came to mind is how are we going to get on when I am in China, we have got to make a start. Yesterday, I saw that she had replied ( for some reason my spirit sank as I could guess what the letter contained ). Sure enough I get the impression she still wants to go the EMF route, but I feel she has left the door open if I can provide a solution ( am I reading too much into this? ). I told her I still want to write but not via Chnlove and I will not back down from this. My view is that we are not helping ourselves if we rely on EMFs all the time because we are not learning to communicate as a couple. All the work is done by and under the control of the translator in the conveyance of ideas / concepts / information. EMFs help us to learn about each other via another person and that will be subjected to that person's outlook / personality. IMHO ( sorry if I have repeated myself here, it's been a very long day ).
I have posted her reply regarding my issue
I'm a member of the agency which locates in Beijing, and our translator belong to the agency, not CHLove, I'm also one member of the site, because the agency helped me to, so if you asked question here, our translator can read it, if you leave somewhere else, she won't read. I know you have to pay money for reading and writing every letter and I also paid ahead of time, I believe the site is a legal one and they provide a good platform for us to know each other, don't you think so?
( this is exactly half of the letter she sent me in reply to my letter of 6000 characters whereby I explained in detail the reasons for my decisions and actions yet she does not give me any insight to her reasons, sometimes I really wonder if it is the translator that I am conversing with )
I am not questioning her agency and know that the translator belongs to the agency, it is the website that I have grief with regarding business practice and of controlling their affiliates ( I have already told her this). I do believe from what I saw on a thread that there may be an email box at the agency ( her email box at the agency? ) which I could write to.
She has sent pictures of her apartment and computer ( I am sure I saw a webcam too ), she lives in Yubei and travels a 20 minute taxi ride to her clothes shop ( I have no idea where it is ).
Gentlemen, what I fail to understand is why the reluctance / unwillingness for direct communication, why is she sticking like glue to the agency? She has her own computer so what is the problem? Am I viewing this incorrectly?
I re-read all the letters she sent and one thing she said previously about her view of being together as a couple did cause me some concern regarding suitability (what she said gave me the impression that she may be lazy at times). Her letters were always short, direct and sometimes questions never were answered. I might be seen as being negative here but upon re-reading the letters I really do not feel that there is any real chemistry and that is why I wanted direct communication to see if I could break past that wall of business like replies ( maybe it is the translator or maybe not). I always felt that she was busy with other things. I just feel that this relationship is not progressing after reading other people's stories.
Robert,
Unfortunately I have not had the occasion for anything like that. I wanted to ask but have never asked for any other contact details after she knocked back the idea of direct communication. I guess she must get my translated letters via email, she used to live in Beijing and has cousins there. I absolutely agree that I am just an email ( as she is to me ) that is why I wanted a direct contact so that we become more than an email. I am 52 and she is 37. I hope to be there mid December but will be taking a job in Xi'an if contract works out, they want teacher asap. Thank you for your offer my regards to you and Ying.
Brett,
Will do if the chance presents itself but I seriously don't hold any hope given the knock back of my earlier request.
About the 8% GDP I agree things are tough in China but somehow they survive.
Ted,
I know you are right and those are my thoughts too. Don't worry about negative thoughts as I have those about chnlove and this is why I want out of their website. The incident about the admirer mails really pis***d me off.
Jim,
Read it a while back and again just recently, I am sure someone mentioned about sister agencies in Beijing. Your opinion is bang on! I do intend to try another direction but failing that then unfortunately it will have to be another lady. I need mental and emotional stimulation just like anybody else otherwise there is no point.
Ed W,
That is how I reckon my/our path will be with communication and I have no problem in that, it makes the journey worthwhile.
Thank you for the tip about the central email box at the agency,( I am sure David5o also mentioned something similar a while back).
My next letter will suggest that there should be an email box at the agency which I could send my letters to, for her to read. If there is no joy with that idea then I will probably end this relationship, should that happen then it is best to wait until I am in China and meet ladies face to face.
Anyway thank you for your answers and good luck to you and your ladies.
Mark
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Mark , Xi'an seems like a terrific area to work and live , so good luck , talking with your lady , send less words only a couple of thousand at most , as by the time it gets via translator to the lady half will be lost in the translation and another third by your ladies memory and trying to understand what you are saying , do not forget that many of our English words do not translate at all or have multiple meanings , and so it is up to the translator to guess what you are saying .
Have a look on asianfriend finder.com you may be lucky enough to find her there as I think from memory my Ying was with the same agency and was also listed on this site , costs nothing to look and at one time when she was having computer troubles we even sent a few emails this way for nothing , regards Ying and Robert .
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Mark,
You expressed my exact thoughts, feelings and frustrations in regard to my issues with Pinky and P218. It is almost like we are with the same agency and translator. I really do not think it is an issue with the woman you are communicating with. I believe it is the tight control of the translator.
I do not remember if it was Proteus or Chinese Knot that told us that a translator had to send out 2500 Cupid notes a day. On blossoms.com it would be smiles. That is a lot of hits each and every day to generate. When a successful connection has been made then you have to read a message, translate, then rewrite, call the woman the message is to, counsel her on how western men are, get a response from her, translate it into English, type it and send it. If they get a 10% return rate on their cupid notes that is 500 letters each day. 250 in and 250 out. Think about it. There would be a lot of cut and paste.
Here we are wondering why the woman called us the wrong name, and sound different, and do not answer half of your questions, the responses took too long or they were too short, and later we find out they didn't know anything about some of the letters we wrote and we wondered why there was a strange response.
Then we start complaining that we are not getting very good responses and the translator thinks who does this idiot think he is. The translator then thinks this westerner is too much trouble but the boss says we need the income. The translator is over worked and under paid, and no one is happy about any of this. Usually the westerner is smitten by a woman then takes off and goes to China before he figures out what is actually happening, gets there and sees this woman that does not really look lie the photo shopped pictures and images he has in his head. I could go further down this trail but you get the picture.
So I think well??? If you can't beat them then change the tune. Go to another site. Well I did. I even tried to make sure that we were communicating outside of the agency. One woman I have been talking to tells me she has a computer at home. She has software to translate what I am saying and translates it back. We IM each other 3 nights in a row 2 hours, 3 hours, and 3 hours. Wow, I'm in and it is great. I think this is wonderful, I am actually talking with a real woman without agency influence. Last night she does not appear. Hmmm... I hope she is alright. Tonight? She is not on the site, hasn't been for 2 days. Hmmm.... Man I hope nothing is wrong, I hope she isn't sick. What is happening here?
Then it hits me. The agency is closed for the weekend. :@ I thought I got around that issue. Think again. I would almost bet anyone on this site for a 2 week all expense paid trip to China to see your favorite girl that this woman shows up tomorrow night just as normal as can be. Why? Agency is open.
I am beginning to think the only way around the EMF is to go to China and talk to her yourself and then set something up on QQ while you are there.
Proteus? Am I right? Is this really how it is? They've got us by the gonads and they know it.
Right now I am totally disgusted with the whole thing. I know some of you have been successful but the majority of us it is a failure.
We need to look way outside of the box (I hate that phrase, it is overused anymore) to figure a way around the agency. Some have done it but I believe it is because the woman is at the same place we are. It appears that most women are afraid to communicate outside of the agency for whatever the reason. We may never know. The reason is more than likely different for each women but we have seen that there are women that do not trust the agency and translator.
The sad thing for me is, now I wonder if my relationship with Pinky could have been successful.
One thing to note is that there are successful men here because of good translators. Maybe we should publish the agency and translator name. Then maybe chnlove would allow us to request translators for the women we want to court.
Shaun
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markymark, Her reply in the beginning is telling you that she is not with Chnlove. She isn't we (the men)are. She is a member of the agency, that's who she signed with. Yes she will have some loyalty to it for that's who got her money and she wants her monies worth. If your still in the beginning stages? she only sees you as being cheap for not wanting to have the letter translated after she spend much more for meeting you. As she gets more comfortable with you she may cross over to more private communications but for now she seems to want to leave it as it is.
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Guys, I've said this before and I'll say it again. EVERYONE IN CHINA HAS QQ! You can get it for mobile phones. If a lady doesn't want direct contact, for god's sake stop wasting your time and money and find another.
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Shaun
What an excellent post...you have taken many, many of the individual concerns from a lot of Bros and put them all into one place...I think your evaluation is right on !
For myself, i am beginning to think seriously that there is such a tiny percentage of "genuine" correspondence between us and our chosen ones in CHNLove that for all intents and purposes we must regard the whole process as a giant scam.
I am sooooo puzzled also, why after a reasonable time...3 months in Markymarks case, and similar for many others, why there is this total reluctance to get off EMF's.....it the natural progression of a relationship over that time, any woman seriously interested in a man would be busting her a** to get closer to him via personal communication...it is very likely that she doesn't want to and is just prolonging the deception ??
Add together the translator spin, this reluctance to move ahead, the ongoing revenue of EMF's, the lack of real "policing" of these people by CHNLove and I virtually conclude it is all basically a waste of time....and money.
It seems the answer lies in jumping on a plane and going to see for yourself if she is genuine or not...and is that what the Agencies REALLY want...because it triggers another fee from the Lady when you go there!!
Of course, this process is costly, fraught with emotional danger and disappointment.....been there, done that !!
I am in the same boat as most of us...4 months communication...many warm words, many written promises...but no QQ, no private communication...so today I pulled the pin on her...its all a scam.
Maybe ShifuLem will get it right..I am giving them a go...I tried Cherry blosom...not impressed !!!
DavidE
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Yes we need some sort of new "dump 'em" rule if a relationship fails to get off EMFs after a certain amount of time. I have seen how many home computers, internet cafes, web enabled mobiles, automatic translation software packages, QQ users there are in China. Yes if your lady is over 40 then maybe she's a technophobe, but China is no 3rd world country when it comes to technology.
That chnlove is scamming us, I have no doubt about that. I mean come on, many of us are practically at the engaged state, and yet our lady profiles are still visible, and other men can waste their money writing to women who are spoken for.
I guess the agency makes the bulk of its EMF money from the first contact EMFs. Some agencies are very skilled at making money - I doubt there's a coincidence that my first EMFs went to Changsha Love Bridge sweeties.
The other lesson new brothers must learn is not to trust the Chinese. Yes I will get flamed by the Chinaphiles amongst us for saying this. But I have been told this from people whose opinions I value highly, and it has served me well so far.
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Guys
I am going to add a biyt more about this subject because my blood is boiling and I want to get it off my chest...please forgive my ramblings !!!!
To Brett....
It is programmed into a womans genes to be able to make any man understand that she is interested and/or available...they dont need training or experience...they can do it from birth !!!
I certainly dont claim to be an expert on relationships and emotions, but I am an old man and I have been round the block a few times and I KNOW it is always possible to KNOW if a woman is attracted to you...she will make you know it...and I dont care if she has never had a relationship before, or is a never-been-kissed virgin...she KNOWS how to attract you.
Did your Lady just turn up due to pressure from the Agency, did she ever give you subtle messages that she welcomed your attention, did she seem to be receptive and happy with the ( limited) physical contact with you....I think not.
And now, the whole thing is gently tapering off...not with a bang, but a whimper...move on my friend !!
And if we want to consider a really good conspiracy theory that i have just dreamed up in my black mood today...is this Forum getting up CHNLove's nose ??? are we marked Men...to be taught a lesson ??
Or am I too paranoid today (hahaha)
Thanks for listening you great bunch of guys
DavidE
A final thought
Would Chen Yan...our latest Lady member, care to tell us how she would see her relationship with a western man develop ?/.....How would she feel about moving to a face-to-face web-cam situation, would she want to do this early, would she NOT want to do this.
I am sure dear Lady that we would all like to hear your opinion about what we are saying here about honesty in communication
Thank you
DavidE
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Thanks David.
Yes I must admit that as soon as I saw my lady's profile on chnlove I thought that she didn't really belong on the site. She was different to the other ladies, and my meeting her confirmed that.
I still don't know what her motives are for finding a Western husband. Did I make a mistake in not asking her this? Maybe I did. Perhaps this is something we all need to ask our ladies.
I also now realise that her parents have a big say in her marriage, maybe a lot more than many of the women here. Again, not taking a translator to meet them was a gigantic mistake (although to be fair on me her agency is 1000 miles away and my lady was vague as to whether I could find a translator in her home town).
Yes I know now that we are programmed to have relationships. I am new at this but I felt very relaxed when I met my lady and it all felt natural. I do find my lady a complex character though. She has a lot of self confidence, but in other ways she is still a little girl. Heck, she still has a kid's duvet cover and her room is full of stuffed animals. :icon_cheesygrin:
Another big mistake I believe I made was to pursue her too much. Perhaps she thinks the deal is done and she doesn't need to woo me any more? I need to be more mindful of my well travelled friend who tells me that a Western husband is a dream meal ticket for many Asian women. They should be wooing us more, not the other way round. Yes I will get flamed for saying this but I am offering the right lady the chance to never work again in some 1000RMB a month slave job and the chance to have as many kids as she wants.
I guess a 30 year old lady who hasn't yet found a man could have a skeleton in her closet. I do wonder why her parents haven't found her a Chinese guy, after all her family is huge and the pool of friends of friends must cover pretty much the entire city.
I will find out this week what's going on. In the meantime I will sort through my favourites and see if I overlooked my special somebody!
I thank the brothers for all their input and hopefully we have all learned something from this. We don't learn much from the good experiences, we learn from the bad!
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We know that there are a lot of ladies on Chnlove but how many male members are there scattered about the world. Thousands more than the few hundred that belong to this forum.
Some women have been in conversations with lots of men, many at the same time. Why should they show their true colours when writing. How many women had each of us writen to before settling on the one we are now with or writing too.
How many of the women that were quietly dropped have had the same experience time and time again. Is it any wonder that they show limited interest.
We really have to expect apathy amongst them until that first meeting takes place because, guys, they have heard it all before.
But once that meeting has taken place then you will either go your own way or have the closest union that you will ever imagine.
Willy
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David E,
You are right in that a woman if she is interested will show you her true feelings I do not care what nationality she is. How she goes about it is determined by her upbringing and personality.
I think there are two things going on when it comes to the agencies. The first is what Willy said. Each woman is being written to by many men and the woman have heard it all before so they use caution and keep their options open to maximize the opportunity to marry. I am sure they are told that the shotgun approach is the best method of finding a husband. The women realize that 1 out of 1000 will be the man and they have to go through the 1000 to get to him.
Cherry Blossom has opened my eyes to that. One of the benefits of being on that site is that you can choose a friends list. If a person uses it wisely they can see how long a chosen female is on the site doing whatever. If they send you a smile to initiate conversation rather than responding back put them on your friend list and watch them a few days. You have to realize that they are talking to other men and you should not get your knickers in a knot. Once you understand the game then if you are still interested you send them a letter and proceed slowly. If you are patient they will invite you to have an IM conversation with them on that site. And again you will need to realize they may be having two or three conversations at one time. Men it is like catching a fish with the right bait. Patience. You ignore the others, you do not mention them but you keep talking. I've got one that appears to be talking with me only now. She appears contacts me, talks with me a couple of hours and the disappears. She was out the 5 hours at a time when I first started tracking her. Another started coming on like gang busters yesterday. This morning she tells me she will get a web cam tomorrow so that we can see each other as we talk. She is now pursuing me. We'll see.
I bet you thought I forgot point two. I am a preacher, we NEVER forget our points. I think the agencies use scare tactics to keep the women under their wings. These women put their total trust in the translator. They want a husband but are afraid they will get one like the Chinese husband they divorced.
I think this was Pinky's problem. The only reason I broke it off with her was because of the translator. Daily still I think I would like to go to China and get the agency manager and have him take me to Pinky's restaurant and meet her on my terms. Get and independent translator and with all of the letters sent and received have that translator read them to her. I would sit there and watch her expression. When she realizes that she has been deceived then start talking with her. I don't know.
If a person understands these two issues and learns the sites they choose to look at women on I think they can find what they are looking for. David please keep us updated on your search on ShifuLem. It may provide another key into getting to the core of finding a way around controlling and manipulative translators.
Men you must keep this in mind though, the ONLY way to be SURE of anything is to GO TO CHINA. It cannot be done from the coziness of your home. One needs to realize that all we are going through is an exercise in becoming more informed so that we can make a better choice before going to China. But even with that you may end up empty handed the first couple of trips.
Shaun
No one has said this I think but the right time to get off EMF is to never get on. That said and being totally unreasonable 20 EMF's should suffice. That is 10 from you and 10 from her. But understand, the agencies will not allow this to happen. The only way is if the woman is on the same page as you and is ready to make the move.
My advice is to look around other sites to see if she is there. You might be able to break through. But to do the same thing over and over and over again is insane. You've come this far and ventured beyond what most men only dream of so reach out a little further and see if you can find her somewhere else. Even though I am talking with other women I am still looking elsewhere for Pinky. Can't help myself.
Shaun
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Hah! I write some total rubbish sometimes. But I guess the point I am trying to make is that generally people under 40 can't live without technology and I guess most ladies in this age bracket have access to QQ. Of course this is generalist rubbish, as my 60something year old mother is computer literate enough to have a facebook account, and my lady's 50something year old mother knows how to use QQ on my lady's PC.
But I guess the point I am trying to make is that newbie brothers who have not visited China should not put up with ladies who are unwilling to talk outside of EMFs.
Another point I'd raise is that any lady who works in an office will probably have QQ or something similar installed, or at the very least will have an email address. I know from seeing it myself that if the boss is not in the office the workers shutdown Excel and open up all manner of non-work related goodies :icon_cheesygrin:.
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The only problem is Jim, they are not on chnlove!!!! :@:icon_cheesygrin:
At least that is what they want you to think. :dodgy:
Shaun
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Guys,
I have had the most incredible weekend. I have been communicating with 4 women at Cherry Blossom. One told me she was with the same agency I left P218. She is incredibly beautiful and quite enticing but in a modest way. She old me she did not need a translator though. No communication this weekend. Another told me she didn't used an agency and had a computer at home she used. Her English was almost perfect. Again she disappeared this weekend without warning. Both I presume with an agency since they are closed on the weekends.
The third went on vacation Thursday to Beijing. She told me about this prior to leaving. She is also not a part of an agency and English is food.
The fourth. Her English is terrible, grammar horrible and spelling atrocious. Looks average to pretty. She writes me a little every day and I respond back and tell her some. I do not give her much hope of being the one. Then about Wednesday she comes on like gang busters. We have been sending emails back and forth 4 times a day. Saturday she says, "how about a web chat?" What? A woman suggesting a web chat? She tells me that she has a sister that is married to an America that lives in Utah and they are happy together. She wants and American husband. So I ask her if she has a web cam? She replies, "I will get one tomorrow." Wow. Tonight we start chatting on yahoo 30 minutes early and talk about 2 hours. Now I've heard this before when most of you say your woman is much prettier when you meet her than the pictures were. I am kind of cynical and I say to myself "yea right." But guys she is much more beautiful that the pictures on the internet. She has long straight black hair all the way down to her, you got it, that beautiful curvy part we all like to look at. Just the way I like it. She plays with it the whole time we are talking. Just the way I like to see a woman do.
Guys I am smitten. I am on cloud 9 and i need to go to sleep but I cannot.
She does her own translating. She can read English but cannot speak it. S o I watched her translate and research when she didn't know. She is actually a very smart woman. Here is best part as far as this thread is concerned. We have shared about 20 emails. we didn't start with EMF and will never migrate to it. What a way to go. I am talking with her and no translator. It is absolutely wonderful.
Guys I do not see myself ever going back to chnlove. You can find them another way. It takes a little research and patience. Is she the one for me? I don't know but she has a very good chance. I for one think this is the best way. Is she with an agency? At this point don't know and don't care as long as the translator does not interfere.
Where there is a will, there is a way and it has to be both people making the journey to each other.
Shaun
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Guys,
The fourth. Her English is terrible, grammar horrible and spelling atrocious. Looks average to pretty. She writes me a little every day and I respond back and tell her some. I do not give her much hope of being the one. Then about Wednesday she comes on like gang busters. We have been sending emails back and forth 4 times a day. Saturday she says, "how about a web chat?" What? A woman suggesting a web chat? She tells me that she has a sister that is married to an America that lives in Utah and they are happy together. She wants and American husband. So I ask her if she has a web cam? She replies, "I will get one tomorrow." Wow. Tonight we start chatting on yahoo 30 minutes early and talk about 2 hours. Now I've heard this before when most of you say your woman is much prettier when you meet her than the pictures were. I am kind of cynical and I say to myself "yea right." But guys she is much more beautiful that the pictures on the internet. She has long straight black hair all the way down to her, you got it, that beautiful curvy part we all like to look at. Just the way I like it. She plays with it the whole time we are talking. Just the way I like to see a woman do.
Guys I am smitten. I am on cloud 9 and i need to go to sleep but I cannot.
Shaun
Shaun,be careful the gang busters hijack your heart.haha~:icon_biggrin:
A final thought
Would Chen Yan...our latest Lady member, care to tell us how she would see her relationship with a western man develop ?/.....How would she feel about moving to a face-to-face web-cam situation, would she want to do this early, would she NOT want to do this.
I am sure dear Lady that we would all like to hear your opinion about what we are saying here about honesty in communication
Thank you
DavidE
Sorry for my late reply,I just see this thread today.And thank you david for asking my opinion.
In my opnion,The reluctance / unwillingness for direct communication maybe means that her English is very poor ,But also a sign that she is not that into you. Like you said,her letter is always business type,and letter are always short and seldom answer your questions. The worst possibility is a scam to make you spent money .
she has her own computer means she must has a private mailbox and QQ(she use it to chat with her Chinese friends,why donn't chat with you),and it is very easy to meet each other even if she donn't need to speak English in the webcam.if she is really interesting in you , she cann't wait to meet you too,she will suggest you to use webcam initiative like Shaun's gangster lady :icon_cheesygrin:.
Three month is long enough,Donn't waste your time anymore, move on
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Thank you Jim and Chen Yan.
A gangster lady? Be still my heart. When do I leave? I guess this means we could be in gangster love, in gangster land, with gangster Suzy and gangster Sam. Oh wait that song is muskrat Suzy and muskrat Sam. Hehe. :icon_cheesygrin::icon_cheesygrin:
From the gangster world,
Shaun
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Thank you Chen Yan!
I was about to add my voice to DavidE's request for your opinion about this matter, but you have preempted that with your reply in words of absolute wisdom and clarity. And what better person can they have come from than a young, beautiful, obviously intelligent and sensitive, Chinese woman? Please forgive me if I embarrass you, but the sincerity and sensitivity of the words in your posts leap from the pages - and you also have a very gentle sense of humour: "Marry her Danny, marry her, marry her, marry her!" I thought that was so lovely (and also what Danny wanted to hear!). Just what this Forum needs; a woman's vision, thoughts and intuition. Your contribution is already proving to be invaluable and, I believe, will become even more invaluable as time goes on. I remember when you first posted here you were worried that members would laugh at your English; I did warn you then - and here we are, seeking your advice!:icon_biggrin: I think the mods should put a few points on your reputation....... Thank you again Chen Yan.
I also want to take this opportunity to comment on DavidE's post, as I believe that what he has said is utterly right and self-evident simplicity in itself: It is in a woman's genes to let a man know if she is interested in him, and if she likes him she will find a way to let him know, and always has done so from time immemorial - think of Eve offering Adam her apple ( hoho, non-believers, just an example!). I often read David's posts and reflect on why I didn't think of what he has written; and his latest point is spellbindingly simple in its truth. I accept there are the difficulties of translator fluff and, in many cases, downright dishonesty, to overcome where EMF's are concerned and that it's almost impossible to know what the translator leaves out or puts in. But once it becomes clear that the person you are writing to does know that you would like to move to direct communication; QQ, webcam, private email etc and is unwilling or reluctant to do so, it must be apparent that she is not sending out a signal that she likes you - quite the opposite in fact - but as Chen Yan puts it, "that she is not into you". Therefore, if you have not asked for some form of direct communication you may assume (rightly or wrongly), from what you read in (translator influenced) EMF's, that the person you are writing to likes you, but you can not know. The acid test of that would obviously appear to be whether she is prepared to engage in direct communication or not - and, as Chen Yan says: "If she is really interested in you, she can not wait to meet you." I think, therefore, that David and Chen Yan have provided the answer to Mark's dillemna.
To return to David's point, and to finish on topic. I have known many wonderful and beautiful women, and been involved in countless enthralling relationships in my relatively short lifespan (no, this is not John's boast post!) and David is absolutely right: if a woman is interested in you, or likes you, she will find a way to let you know. She will also let you know when that interest has dimmed and when it has finally died. I'm quite a sensitive person and I have usually been able to pick up on those signs when they have occurred in my relationships (yup, got to admit there have been times) but the fact is, that until I read David's post on this issue, I had not applied this simple self-evident truth to my Chnlove relationship - albeit that I have only ever written to, or wanted to write to, one person on Chnlove, so in that respect I am a complete novice where internet relationships are concerned. How foolish and unknowing can one be? And what David has written - and Chen Yan has confirmed - has gone a long way to providing the answer to my doubts and uncertainties. In my opinion, the guiding principle unearthed in David's post ranks alongside Maxx's 24 hour rule and should be called to mind in the same way when doubts and dillemnas arise.
Many thanks to you both!!!
John
Ps. David, if I didn't know better I would swear you were a Brit masquerading as an Assie...............hahaha.
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Johnboy,
Your right, ....he is a Brit, a welsh Brit, that's now calling himself an Aussie. But i guess he's been there long enough to justify his Aussie credentials!! ...hahaha!!
David
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Johnboy,
Your right, ....he is a Brit, a welsh Brit, that's now calling himself an Aussie. But i guess he's been there long enough to justify his Aussie credentials!! ...hahaha!!
David
:huh: I thought he was from Oklahoma on furlough in Australia. :huh:
Shaun
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Johnboy,
Your right, ....he is a Brit, a welsh Brit, that's now calling himself an Aussie. But i guess he's been there long enough to justify his Aussie credentials!! ...hahaha!!
David
Oh no! Oh yes! I just knew it, I must be clairvoyant. Do we have any Wesh Dragon flags in the flag locker that we can put up for him?
Great idea: next time Shaun joins another site he can register using David's picture and Vince's name! Hahaha
Yacki Dah boyo.......
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Maybe we need a three month rule alongside the 24hr one?!
FWIW I reckon if things are not getting romantic and talking about visitation after three months then probably it never will.
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Hello Brothers and sister(s)
First of all thank you for the banter (fun) on this thread it is all good stuff, Johnboy you are such a wordsmith, mind you Anne Hathaway with words and so do you, it is almost Shakespearian. Seriously I do enjoy the eloquence that I have seen displayed on this forum. It is refreshing to see how thoughts are put together and expressed in writing. Everyone wether eloquent or not has something to contribute from their experience. I think everyone of us in some way has a part of the overall picture about the machinations, practices ( good and bad ) and the agendas of chnlove, agencies and translators. Obviously some experiences are positive and some are not so positive. I seem to have read about more of the latter than the former. I personally think it is cruel of some translators to keep milking EMFs for whatever reasons are possible. Doing this may mean you are being distracted and could miss the opportuniy of corresponding with someone who may be your possible suitor. As in my case I do not think I will ever know for certain about the real intentions/ feelings of the lady I was writing to or if it was all controlled by the translator, maybe my lady only got snippets of what I actually wrote which in turn would have caused how much interest she would have shown. I have always tried to get past this aspect of translator control but this intention / desire would have to be shown equally by the person you are writing to. So maybe we should advise all people to get off EMFs as soon as possible or maybe not go that route as in Shaun's case. I think the language barrier is one of the greatest problems when faced with internet dating because of the fear of being misunderstood and of the frustration in working out what has been said if you use complex sentences in the translation tools. It can be a daunting task but if you work hard for something then you appreciate it all the more if you attain your goal.
I made a mistake by concentrating too much on trying to find a way of getting away from the control of the translator's input and of trying to work out how much actual input came from the lady I was writing to rather than reading between the lines to see what amount of interest my lady actually showed in me. I did see a coulpe of red flags and proceeded with caution which is why I never went into detail about future plans for marriage etc. IMHO 3 months is much too long to rely solely on EMFs and when my request was rejected I should have moved on at that point in time. Getting onto direct communication has been raised before and should be heeded IMO.
These " machinations " of Chnlove and its agencies and their translators will never stop because it is a money making machine. As always there will be new members joining who are unaware of what goes on therefore keeping this machine well oiled.
Thank you to everyone and to our resident "sister" Chen Yan, it is nice to have your input and opinion, I am sure your advice will be invaluable to many members.
I have now moved on and hope all goes well for Xi'an.
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Johnboy,
Your right, ....he is a Brit, a welsh Brit, that's now calling himself an Aussie. But i guess he's been there long enough to justify his Aussie credentials!! ...hahaha!!
David
:huh: I thought he was from Oklahoma on furlough in Australia. :huh:
Shaun
OK you lot !!!....In truth I am a devious Welshman who lived in England for a while, went all over the world for 15 years with my Dad who was an RAF Pilot and then migrated to Australia...so I am an international hotch-poch....but devious enough to keep both Brit and Aussie passports :):):)
I only ever once went to the US of A..it was to Pittsburgh, when I worked for Alcoa........this has obviously given me a very distorted view of America.......Pittsburgh was bloody awful....is the rest of the place like that ????
Cant make up my mind whether I prefer roast beef and Yorkshire pud...or Szechuan hot pot...or leek soup....but I'm working on it !!
But in all my long life, in all my world travels, in all my incredible adventures...there is ONE fundamental truth I have learned........
YOU CANT BEAT A GOOD PINT OF ENGLISH BITTER.....PERIOD !!!!
I have invested much money and countless brain cells exploring this anomaly...and it is the most fundamental truism in life :):)
DavidE
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Pittsburgh? Pittsburgh? you can't view the US based on that place. Every State has one bad city and for PA That's the one place.
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Maybe we need a three month rule alongside the 24hr one?!
FWIW I reckon if things are not getting romantic and talking about visitation after three months then probably it never will.
Irishman,
Great suggestion!!! I would up the ante...to one month! The ladies, that truly want this, will be willing! At the same time, we all understand the word patience...one month is not unreasonable, under the right circumstances!:icon_biggrin:
Darn it Jim, you are so blunt it hurts!!!! ha ha ha.
To be fair it was because of your earlier posts of when you were in Chang Sha that I actually decided to try for direct communication. You were having such a ball there! Glad it worked out for you.
I asked for direct communication after I had been writing for 2 months and got knocked back probably because I thought she may have considered it to be too early or whatever. I waited for a little while longer ( big mistake!!! ) thinking she may be more sure of me and then asked again, as I wanted to be sure in my own mind that I was correct in walking away if she refused. I have moved on with a clean conscience. There will not be a next time for that to happen as I think 1 month IS ENOUGH to know for sure.
Good luck Jim it is all good.
Hey Irishman, great to see you are having a ball good luck to you and your lady, she's a cracker and you have pulled, nice one.
Johnboy,
Your right, ....he is a Brit, a welsh Brit, that's now calling himself an Aussie. But i guess he's been there long enough to justify his Aussie credentials!! ...hahaha!!
David
:huh: I thought he was from Oklahoma on furlough in Australia. :huh:
Shaun
OK you lot !!!....In truth I am a devious Welshman who lived in England for a while, went all over the world for 15 years with my Dad who was an RAF Pilot and then migrated to Australia...so I am an international hotch-poch....but devious enough to keep both Brit and Aussie passports :):):)
I only ever once went to the US of A..it was to Pittsburgh, when I worked for Alcoa........this has obviously given me a very distorted view of America.......Pittsburgh was bloody awful....is the rest of the place like that ????
Cant make up my mind whether I prefer roast beef and Yorkshire pud...or Szechuan hot pot...or leek soup....but I'm working on it !!
But in all my long life, in all my world travels, in all my incredible adventures...there is ONE fundamental truth I have learned........
YOU CANT BEAT A GOOD PINT OF ENGLISH BITTER.....PERIOD !!!!
I have invested much money and countless brain cells exploring this anomaly...and it is the most fundamental truism in life :):)
DavidE
David,
it sounds like you are a multi-national international if that makes sense. Don't worry it will after a few pints of real ale bitter and it is nice to have beer where they don't fill the glass with ice, England isn't hot enough anyway. Faggots and peas is a local dish here, no not those kind of faggots if you are thinking of American terminology. :s
All in all you can't beat a good Welsh choir, the best in the world IMHO.
" Mae hen wlad fy nhadau " for the people who are not from Cymru it means The land of my fathers.
Have fun. :icon_cheesygrin:
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Pittsburgh? Pittsburgh? you can't view the US based on that place. Every State has one bad city and for PA That's the one place.
Vince...according to the "high powers" at Alcoa when I visited them, Pittsburgh was the showpiece of the American way......of course I believed them......they were my Bosses !!!!...could they be wrong :):):)
David
Lets add a little bit more to this theme...and see if she floats !!
Johnboy took a thought of mine and expanded it to make much more sense..(you always do this Johnboy !!!).
The "Adam and Eve" experience should tell us a lot more about this issues of "does she love me " !!!
Men can fall in love (and/or lust) at the drop of a hat (or a pair of black lace panties......or a glimpse of half a boob !!!)....Women , on the other hand, are a lot more discriminating and discerning...they've got nine months to reflect on 10 minutes (sic !!) of pleasure. So when they decide that the genetic genie is calling, any man would easily get to know this !!
With due respect to some Bros who wont like my thoughts, most Men get very confused between love and lust. As I have said in a previous post...you cant fall in love at long range...you gotta check the pheromones !!!...up close and personal.
Basically, when you meet her, if she ticks any one of your boxes, the testosterone kicks in and you are completely in lust.......
Over time, this can mature into love....but it will be at her pace...she will give the signals and if you can get past the drooling stage, you should recognise them...but sometimes due to culture/personality etc, they are very subtle...but Guys...you need to know what they are and understand what she expects of you..
In the good old days, you would belt her with your club and drag her off to your cave..if you could first dispose of the other Neanderthals who were seeking somewhere to put their genes for the next generation. So you see, already she has begun the selection process..and we fell into the trap !!!....she is telling you...."You kill all the other weaklings and you can get me (haha)"
How many poor sods got their brains bashed out trying to comply with this testosterone driven message...fuelled by the guile of the "innocent bystander"...her !!
Now of course, it aint like that any more...or is it ??????
She puts her photo...as sexy (attractive/appealing) as possible on a website......many guys respond and enter the "competition"...and spend money with CHNLove :):)
At some point (maybe) she gets to "kill off" the competition and is left with one victorious Man. This victorious man most likely will be the one who can go the distance with his wallet and EMF';s instead of his club !!
Or the Man who shows the most compelling reason why she should consider him as the "provider of the future genetic copies."
You might laugh at all this, but the Behavioural Psyches have really stressed that the game has not changed in millenia, but the process has.
Food for thought...and thanks Johnboy for the "trigger "
DavidE
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Pittsburgh? Pittsburgh? you can't view the US based on that place. Every State has one bad city and for PA That's the one place.
Vince...according to the "high powers" at Alcoa when I visited them, Pittsburgh was the showpiece of the American way......of course I believed them......they were my Bosses !!!!...could they be wrong :):):)
David
Lets add a little bit more to this theme...and see if she floats !!
Johnboy took a thought of mine and expanded it to make much more sense..(you always do this Johnboy !!!).
The "Adam and Eve" experience should tell us a lot more about this issues of "does she love me " !!!
Men can fall in love (and/or lust) at the drop of a hat (or a pair of black lace panties......or a glimpse of half a boob !!!)....Women , on the other hand, are a lot more discriminating and discerning...they've got nine months to reflect on 10 minutes (sic !!) of pleasure. So when they decide that the genetic genie is calling, any man would easily get to know this !!
With due respect to some Bros who wont like my thoughts, most Men get very confused between love and lust. As I have said in a previous post...you cant fall in love at long range...you gotta check the pheromones !!!...up close and personal.
Basically, when you meet her, if she ticks any one of your boxes, the testosterone kicks in and you are completely in lust.......
Over time, this can mature into love....but it will be at her pace...she will give the signals and if you can get past the drooling stage, you should recognise them...but sometimes due to culture/personality etc, they are very subtle...but Guys...you need to know what they are and understand what she expects of you..
In the good old days, you would belt her with your club and drag her off to your cave..if you could first dispose of the other Neanderthals who were seeking somewhere to put their genes for the next generation. So you see, already she has begun the selection process..and we fell into the trap !!!....she is telling you...."You kill all the other weaklings and you can get me (haha)"
How many poor sods got their brains bashed out trying to comply with this testosterone driven message...fuelled by the guile of the "innocent bystander"...her !!
Now of course, it aint like that any more...or is it ??????
She puts her photo...as sexy (attractive/appealing) as possible on a website......many guys respond and enter the "competition"...and spend money with CHNLove :):)
At some point (maybe) she gets to "kill off" the competition and is left with one victorious Man. This victorious man most likely will be the one who can go the distance with his wallet and EMF';s instead of his club !!
Or the Man who shows the most compelling reason why she should consider him as the "provider of the future genetic copies."
You might laugh at all this, but the Behavioural Psyches have really stressed that the game has not changed in millenia, but the process has.
Food for thought...and thanks Johnboy for the "trigger "
DavidE
David I think Pittsburg would rank along the same idea as Fosters being Australia's #1 beer. :icon_cheesygrin:
Of course being Alcoa I can imagine they think it is Americana.
Shaun
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ok this is my 100 post and i guess talking about pittsburgh since i am from there would
be appropriate. i am from pittsburgh and since they closed the steel mills the city has
gotten a lot better from what ive seen when i visit. when i was growing up there it was
not exactly the best place with the mills going all the time. actually i was from west mifflin
which is about 25 miles from downtown. so lets be nice here hahahahahahah
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actually i was from west mifflin
which is about 25 miles from downtown. so lets be nice here hahahahahahah
Hehe does that mean you get miffed easily then Ted...LOL:icon_cheesygrin::icon_cheesygrin::blush:
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Hi to everybody; after some weeks away for business and personal reasons I'm enjoying your posts again
markymark, as a newbie, IMHO you should wait until being in China and go for face-to-face meetings
Shaun, i totally agree with you. It can be told louder but not better. I don't trust Chnlove/Agencies anymore, I feel using EMF's is wasting time and money. I wonder if at any time I've talked to a real lady or just with translators. My last experience:
- A lady who declined direct communication despite she claims in her profile "I can speak fluently English so I had no difficulties in communications with English speaking people"
- One day she sent a passionate and ardent letter and the next one was impersonal and cold like if they were written by two different persons. Apart from some contradictions in her letters that kept me wondering whom I was talking to
I sent my last EMF on September 15 and I have no reasons to use the 3 I still have in my account or refresh my profile again, the last time was on May 1st. I hope I'll be able soon to do a short visit, and in the next year move for at least 6-12 months thanks to the invaluable advice of Willy and other guys living there
Manuel
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Manuel,
We missed you. Glad you are back.
Ted,
Being from Pittsburgh explains a lot about you. :icon_cheesygrin:
No really just kidding. Everybody has to have a mother and they have to be from somewhere. Pitt is just as good a place as any.
Blessings,
Shaun
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Hi to everybody; after some weeks away for business and personal reasons I'm enjoying your posts again
markymark, as a newbie, IMHO you should wait until being in China and go for face-to-face meetings
Shaun, i totally agree with you. It can be told louder but not better. I don't trust Chnlove/Agencies anymore, I feel using EMF's is wasting time and money. I wonder if at any time I've talked to a real lady or just with translators. My last experience:
- A lady who declined direct communication despite she claims in her profile "I can speak fluently English so I had no difficulties in communications with English speaking people"
- One day she sent a passionate and ardent letter and the next one was impersonal and cold like if they were written by two different persons. Apart from some contradictions in her letters that kept me wondering whom I was talking to
I sent my last EMF on September 15 and I have no reasons to use the 3 I still have in my account or refresh my profile again, the last time was on May 1st. I hope I'll be able soon to do a short visit, and in the next year move for at least 6-12 months thanks to the invaluable advice of Willy and other guys living there
Manuel
Thanks Manuel, that is what I intend to do very soon and it will be nice to have a Christmas in China with snow on Christmas day for once. Face to face meetings will be far better. By the way glad to see you are back, welcome.
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Pittsburgh? Pittsburgh? you can't view the US based on that place. Every State has one bad city and for PA That's the one place.
But it probably improved a great deal when a certain gentleman left the city.LOL:icon_cheesygrin::icon_cheesygrin:
Willy
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Hi Manual ,
glad to see you back among us . Since we are in Europe in thought ... where is your Neighbor " SLY " ???
Did he also get of EMF's and our Forum too ??? Or is he hidding in China ... down south somewhere and never went back to France ?
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Thank you Chen Yan!
I was about to add my voice to DavidE's request for your opinion about this matter, but you have preempted that with your reply in words of absolute wisdom and clarity. And what better person can they have come from than a young, beautiful, obviously intelligent and sensitive, Chinese woman? Please forgive me if I embarrass you, but the sincerity and sensitivity of the words in your posts leap from the pages - and you also have a very gentle sense of humour: "Marry her Danny, marry her, marry her, marry her!" I thought that was so lovely (and also what Danny wanted to hear!). Just what this Forum needs; a woman's vision, thoughts and intuition. Your contribution is already proving to be invaluable and, I believe, will become even more invaluable as time goes on. I remember when you first posted here you were worried that members would laugh at your English; I did warn you then - and here we are, seeking your advice!:icon_biggrin: I think the mods should put a few points on your reputation....... Thank you again Chen Yan.
Ooh, Such a long paragraph to praise me make me feel extremely flattered. But I really inspired by your encourage ! Thank you Johnboy! When I noticed I got two reputation today,I just made a triumphant gesture on the chair in the office ,because it makes so happy.The feeling like I went back to school and the teacher praise me"well done". Thank you Andy and abigbutt !
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Chen Yan, I read many of your posts, I'll help :)
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Thank you Chen Yan!
I was about to add my voice to DavidE's request for your opinion about this matter, but you have preempted that with your reply in words of absolute wisdom and clarity. And what better person can they have come from than a young, beautiful, obviously intelligent and sensitive, Chinese woman? Please forgive me if I embarrass you, but the sincerity and sensitivity of the words in your posts leap from the pages - and you also have a very gentle sense of humour: "Marry her Danny, marry her, marry her, marry her!" I thought that was so lovely (and also what Danny wanted to hear!). Just what this Forum needs; a woman's vision, thoughts and intuition. Your contribution is already proving to be invaluable and, I believe, will become even more invaluable as time goes on. I remember when you first posted here you were worried that members would laugh at your English; I did warn you then - and here we are, seeking your advice!:icon_biggrin: I think the mods should put a few points on your reputation....... Thank you again Chen Yan.
Ooh, Such a long paragraph to praise me make me feel extremely flattered. But I really inspired by your encourage ! Thank you Johnboy! When I noticed I got two reputation today,I just made a triumphant gesture on the chair in the office ,because it makes so happy.The feeling like I went back to school and the teacher praise me"well done". Thank you Andy and abigbutt !
Not nearly long enough Chen Yan, and it is praise you have well-earned and that comes not only from me. Moreover, inspiration begets inspiration. You are inspired by our encouragement; we are inspired by the wise and valuable contribution you invest with us. I wish we could have been present, when you made your triumphant gesture on your office chair, to chorus that iconic American expression: "way to go Chen Yan! Way to go!!!" Hahaha:icon_wink: