China Romance
General Discussion and Useful Links => Ask An Experienced Member => Topic started by: Hans on December 01, 2009, 04:09:16 am
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My plan is to visit my lady in Zhanjiang in late December. Everything is set, the travel plan from Stockholm, the one night stay in Guangzhou, the short flight to Zhanjiang the day after and the hotel reservation in Zhanjiang. It's been a bit complicated to sew it all together on my own but now I have managed to do it. It is the biggest and most complicated trip I've ever made and of course the most emotional one. Well, you all know the deal.
Then I get an email in Chinese from my lady saying that she has something we need to discuss, which she will explain in a EMF letter. I instantly get a bad feeling about it, she usually doesn't express herself like that. Now I have received her letter and in my mind it's not good.
It turns out, she writes, her friend will marry in Guiyang city on the exact day I will arrive, December 29th, and she has been asked to be the maid of honor. So she needs to be there and suggests we could go there together. I have no idea how long she will stay there (what is the average length of a Chinese wedding ceremony/party?) or how she will get there, by train, bus or plane. She did not give any details at all but writes "Once we there, we can plan our later trips. And don't worry, I'm sure we can arrange a good way for you to catch up the plane back to Sweden in time!" This is after I have made a 9 day hotel reservation in Zhanjiang.
My lady has been talking a lot about that she wants to make plans in good time before she does anything and now she suddenly throws this in my lap. This is not like her at all, she has been very careful and caring all the time, asking what I think about this and that, wanting to discuss things in detail and share opinions. And now this.
I am too angry and disappointed right now to think straight, maybe I am overreacting and I will certainly follow the 24 hour rule here so that I won't do anything stupid.
I guess I just want to hear your thoughts about all this. :-/
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Well Hans,
Do not panic - you will have to get used to your Chinese lady springing things on you almost at the last minute. It is almost a national pastime for them.
I doubt if anyone has been here and not had the last minute event sprung on them. Now I am here permanently I get that so regulary that I am now suprised if it does not occur.
Keep to the 24 hour rule - that is the only rule one should stick to. Do not forget that she has had the friend for much longer than you have been in her life.
After the journey you are going to make I doubt if you are going to want to be at a wedding party the same day - but she really wants to show off her foreigner boyfriend.
I would suggest to all that when you meet your lady for the first time that it is only you and her together and maybe a translator as that will give you a chance to getto know each other being meeting family and friends.
It can be a bit overpowering to meet family members on that first couple of day as I know to my first experience here.
Willy
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24 hour rule is a must on this one Hans...
Everything will work out right, you'll see...As Willy mentions they tend to spring last minute deals onto you...
Good luck my friend
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What the two above me said. This appears to only be a small bump in the road. Take the 24 and then put a smile on your face and say yes dear. From what I understand you will be saying that a lot. Don't worry the two of you will work it out. The bright side? She is ready to show you off.
Shaun
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Yeah the 24 hour rule is important here.
My lady is no different in being reluctant to tell me really important things :@.
BTW you can sometimes change flight and hotel bookings, could you leave earlier? It would be good to go to a wedding, but not so good if it's the first day with your lady.
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Hans
It is important to watch what people do, rather than what they say. I would say nothing about what she has done, but still I would take it into consideration.
It might mean nothing at all, but then again, it might be a pattern of behaviour, where your face, wishes, happiness, don't count for a whole lot.
I think this is a situation where it is best to smile a lot and just flow along with what she has arranged. Say nothing about what has happened. Be a man about it. I am saying this because it is easy to just throw it all away, in one way or another, in a situation like this.
If my own experience is any guide, I reckon there is a high probability that she will do just as she says, and she will plan out some trips with you, and you will have a very enjoyable holiday, regardless of the outcome of the relationship.
My suggestion, is to go along with what she has planned, and then if you enjoy this, then see what happens.
If you're not enjoying your holiday, then tear open the envelope labelled, Plan B . . . don't leave home without a Plan B.
Good luck!
Danny
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Thanks for the input guys. You are always so calm! :icon_cool:
So none of you regard this as disrespect, then? I mean, there's always a limit to things, a limit where smiling and saying yes means letting other people step on you. I'm not saying the limit has been reached here but I am not ready to throw myself into anything just to please a lady I have never met.
I don't mind going to a wedding per se, but like you say, Brett: on our first day? If the wedding is in fact on December 29th, I will hardly make it since I arrive in Zhanjiang at 12.45pm. There is no chance to rebook anything by now (if I am not ready to pay twice as much at least, which I'm not), the flight schedule is what it is. Maybe that is what bothers me most. I have worked my ass off to get everything to work on a tight budget. Flights, hotel night in Guangzhou and flight to Zhanjiang the day after, hotel in Zhanjiang in the right district. It feels like suddenly she doesn't care about it. And is it possible that she could not have known anything about this wedding until now?
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BTW you can sometimes change flight and hotel bookings, could you leave earlier? It would be good to go to a wedding, but not so good if it's the first day with your lady.
I doubt if that is practicable - I cannot imagine it is a straight flight from Stockholm to Guangzhou and then you have the next flight. Only need one to say no and you rack up some heavy expenses.
Willy
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Willy, you are right. It is Stockholm-Amsterdam-Beijing-Guangzhou. And Zhanjiang. And now she wants me to go to Guizhou province instead...
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Hans, firstly it is an honour to be asked to attend the wedding , even though you might feel like a fish out of water , you should be able with 4 weeks to go to tweek your arrangements and keep going when you arrive in Guangzhou down to the nearest airport to Zhanjiang and don,t spend a night there , I am sure your lady will help you with any arrangements , I would say that this is also a lovely surprise for her to be asked and in China unlike in European countries once a marriage is decided on it will normally be weeks not months to be organized , so tell her that you will attempt to reorganize your plans with her help and take it from there , regards Ying and Robert .
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Yes, I would be really, really unhappy about how she has treated you. But I don't think that it will do you any good to tell her about it. Sometimes you just have to hold it in. Go and have a few beers with some friends and forget about it all for a night. You will feel better after that.
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Willy, you are right. It is Stockholm-Amsterdam-Beijing-Guangzhou. And Zhanjiang. And now she wants me to go to Guizhou province instead...
Your just going to have to tell her that it is impossible for you to be at the wedding. Maybe she can see you the next day.
If she is not willing to rush to see you after the wedding, and you having taken 4 aeroplanes to see her, then you will know that for some time you are going to be second in her line of thoughts.
So as Danny said - take envelope marked Plan B with you - the agency will be pleased to introduce you to as many ladies as they can - they charge the ladies for this introductions.
Look at Robs excellent example - picked a woman up on the streets and look where it is leading. My failure was just after I arrived but now I am going well out here.
Whatever happens make the journey you will not regret it.
Willy
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I understand it is an honor for her to asked to be the maid of honor. But where am I in all this?
I arrive in Zhanjiang with the earliest possible flight, there is no connection on the evening I arrive in Guangzhou so I have no choice but to stay one night there. I arrive at Zhanjiang airport at 12.45PM on December 29, I find it doubtful I can even go to Guiyang and be in time for the wedding if it is being held that particular day. She has given me no details whatsoever.
Yes, I think you are right, Willy. I kind of feel that I am not her priority here and that is a bit shocking after six months of communication, EMF's, Chinese emails and a constant countdown to the big day, our first meeting in Zhanjiang. I think I'll go anyway, no matter what happens here. I have a flight plan and a hotel reservation. Better make the best of it, right?
Danny, I am not the pretending type. I won't pretend nothing's wrong in a relationship when something is wrong. I want to discuss things in the open and the lady has been saying the same. If that scares some people off, and it does, so be it. I will not play games to make her believe I am OK with whatever she decides. Because I feel she has decided. She has told me, not asked me. To me that shows disrespect. I am aware of the cultural differences here and that she probably doesn't mean to show me disrespect. But still, I am doing the trip, I am paying and I am making the effort to see her.
A few beers might help for now, yes...
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Hans - when I booked my flight through Expedia I checked that my flight could be rescheduled in case I had lady troubles, and it looked as if it could. Hotels are usually OK as well. It might be worth checking. You seem to have a particularly complex flight schedule though!
I do have the same issues with my lady - as of yet I am not her number 1 priority. A man needs to feel wanted. That is our #1 requirement in a lady, so I guess that is why you're feeling like you are. Maybe things change when we put a ring on their finger and show we are totally committed to them?
A backup plan is useful though, in my case it was to have a damn good holiday (I usually go away in October anyway) :icon_cheesygrin:.
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I booked a flight to Las Vegas with Expedia and I wanted to change the flight several weeks before but Expedia told me that they cannot change flights. So I just gave up the cost of the airfare and then flew with AA three weeks after my scheduled date.
Luckily The Mirage were more than happy to change my reservation so not a total loss and I have never been happy flying with Delta anyway.
I have made about 6 flights through Expedia - they are not cheap but ease of booking was my first consideration.
But do not Dispair Hans. Many ladies in China have been let down by us foreign men, sometimesmen have said that they are noy going just a day or two before they were supposed to travel some make no further contact at all. So until you step off the plane they sometimes have difficulty in believing you are actually going to arrive because lets face there are a lot of male players use these sites and some women have been stung as well as us 'poor men'.
When you announce that you have arrived on Chinese soil then there will be a different reaction - if not PLAN B!!!!
Willy
Willy
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I know, Willy, and that's what girls have been telling me before. That was the explanation I got from the lady who fooled me last time. I just don't think it is an excuse for bad behavior. It's like cheating on your wife with the excuse that so many women out there cheat on their husbands anyway. Bad comparison maybe, but you get my point.
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Hans, I think you are over reacting. Take it from someone who does too. She probably has no real idea of the trouble you went to and she is not going to hurt her friends feelings for a man that she has never met. At least she asked you to come to the wedding. She didnt say she was going and would meet you after, so I think that is giving you consideration. Once you have made a commitment to each other things will change. As far as asking you and telling you, this was through an EMF, right? The translator may have put it that way. This is one reason the 24 hour rule is so important. If you must talk about it, I would do it giving her the benefit of doubt. Explain to her your reasons in a calm non accusatory way. This may be just a difference in interpretation. She has not given you any details, she probably didnt think about it. If you want this relationship to work, I would explain my reasons and tell her thank you for inviting me but i cannot go. She should go and have a good time. Then see what she says. If you do this, you will come off looking like a really good guy. To everyone. Look at it this way, what if your lifelong friend wanted you to be the best man at his wedding, would you say no to him? You would invite her. This is a big thing to them, to women all over. You have no idea of the background to this. Please, step back and take a good long look at this before saying a word.
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Hans, I was about to post something like Jim just did, i am the master of over-reaction but in this case i don't think its warranted.
It IS an honour to be invited to her friends wedding with her, she is showing you off to her closest friends and has a lot of face to loose if you make a poor impression.
Has she flown before?, does she realise how hard it is to change flights? hotel rooms can always be changed in my experience up to about 48 at least and she probably knows this so probably thinks she is giving you great face by inviting you to such an important occasion for her.
Willy touched on this earlier, always have a plan b..no matter how much you have planned something in China..there is inevitably a plan c that needs to be accounted for, you either accept that or go crazy is my opinion. I remember one time I was going with Ling to visit a friends wedding and she had told me it was a day trip only and she would meet me at the bus station the next morning to go there.
She was there..with a suitcase and was a bit miffed that I didnt want to stay overnight as I had no clothes or toiletries to freshen up in..though she had brou8ght some for her..maybe that was her though...
In a nutshell, rethink it, explain it to her softly about the flight costs etc if you cannot really afford the changes then be honest about that. She will respect it more than acting the big rich guy and sulking all the time when you make the flight changes... Unless she's from a really rich background she will appreciate the value of money and not think any less of you for it (in fact i bet she would see it as a positive that you are not foolish with money) .
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"But still, I am doing the trip, I am paying and I am making the effort to see her. "
Well. As many of us (or as ALL OF US, of course we go to China, but.... shall man say "making the effort"?
I don't think you are making an effort, because if you to there, it is because you want to go there, anyway, and it is a part of your heart, too, that gives the reason to go.
So... forget about that way to say "making the effort" and about payment, please :)
Be sure too, that I don't want to offend you ;)
In any other hand, I don't think she is "playing" with you. I just read the way it was said that she wanted to be at the wedding with you, but for sure, maybe time will be too short...
As other brothers said, maybe you can ask her to confirm if it is really what she said (via any private mail/sms if you can?), then you can see what you can do (or not).
But I already think that she would be very happy to see you, even if is she is asked to be one of the most important persons for her friend's wedding.
and if for any reason you can not arrive in time at the wedding, maybe you can arrive a bit later... but I doubt your lady would be angry about it... (if you explain how long is your flight and so on :) )
Well. I wish you all the best anyway and hope to read your fresh news asap :)
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First of all, I really appreciate everyone’s responses here. It really means a lot to get some sober input. When you’re upset and emotional you don’t always think straight. However, although I may be overreacting a bit I do think I have some reason to feel the way I do.
Sylvain, about "making the effort": Of course I want to go there and see her, otherwise I would never have made any travel arrangements in the first place. I am just implying that I am the one with the most to lose here. I leave my country to visit her, I am making the trip to her, not the other way around. If she had booked a flight to Sweden, empited her pockets for the trip and arranged with a hotel and I suddenly tell her that I need to go to another place 600 km away on the day of her arrival because my friend is getting married or whatever, I am pretty sure she would feel a bit disappointed as well.
No, I don’t think she is playing with me either. But she relies very heavily on the agency all the time. When I ask her practical questions, she tells me to ask Ms Wang, head of the agency (who doesn’t speak English very well, apparently). When I ask about her future visa to Sweden (which she has brought up herself many times), she tells me to ask Ms Wang again. I don’t want to talk to Ms Wang, I want to talk to her.
She (or probably the agency) told me about the translation services earlier and although I thought it was a bit expensive (100RMB/hour) I agreed that it could be wise to use a human translator during our first day. Now she writes that Ms Wang and the translator would accompany us to the wedding and I don’t know if that means I am expected to pay for their entire stay (and how long that stay would be). Like I said, no details.
I have told her about my economy before. I am not a rich man, especially not this fall because I've been a trainee full time (without pay) for 15 weeks, which is a part of my education. And during the evenings I have been studying Chinese at the uni. So all my money has been coming from the student support we get in Sweden (which is a loan combined with a tiny monthly support). I’ve completely emptied my pockets for this trip, which is also what I refer to when I say "making the effort".
Well, I'll write to her in the morning...
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Well, I think you should discuss more about all of your "fears" with her, and saying her you want to talk only with her, not only with Ms Wang.There's a "way" to say it, without any hurts, so I hope your lady could understand it easily. And maybe would then she try to speak more and more with you, without saying "talk to Ms Wang, ask to Ms Wang"...
Plus, if Ms Wang and the translator should be at the wedding, too, yes, I'd like to know if you would have to pay something or not. Once again, say your lady that it's not because you are a foreigner that it means you have many $$$ :)
By the way, it should be nice to know, too, if you ever tried before to talk in chinese with anybody, or if it would be your first time? (so then, woud you really need any translator?) Plus, if you have andy pocket pc, man can tell you some nice softwares to use and "practice" :)
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Danny, I am not the pretending type. I won't pretend nothing's wrong in a relationship when something is wrong. I want to discuss things in the open and the lady has been saying the same. If that scares some people off, and it does, so be it. I will not play games to make her believe I am OK with whatever she decides. Because I feel she has decided. She has told me, not asked me. To me that shows disrespect. I am aware of the cultural differences here and that she probably doesn't mean to show me disrespect. But still, I am doing the trip, I am paying and I am making the effort to see her.
Yes, I agree. I am sorry I did not make myself sufficiently clear. I only meant to say to you what I would tell myself. Sometimes when I have my hopes up, and they are disappointed, there is a temptation (for me) to throw a tantrum. It is easy to overreact to what might be only a small setback. Please believe me, I am not suggesting that you would act in this way. It is the way I have (to my shame and regret) acted. So, as I say to my daughter, do as I say, and not as I do *laughs*
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Hans on your first post, you left parts of that out. Like the translator. Usually the man pays for that sort of thing, yes I would definitely explain my financial picture to her. I think 100 RMB per hour is excessive also. They all think we are rich Americans, Canadians, etc. I would not want to pay for the translator, to go there, stay, eat and come back. That is way out of line. But make sure first that is what is expected. Get all of the info first before going off the deep end.If she expects you to pay for the translator, etc. That may be taking advantage of you. Unless you have portrayed yourself as this rich person. Which you say you havent. This puts a whole different light on it in my opinion. But still be careful until you have all of the facts. If she does expect you to pay, I would ask her why she thinks this. She may be getting bad advice from the agency also, to pad their expenses. They may be telling her that all foreigners do this. In the end, I would be very careful, but tell her that you will not pay for that expense. And do not appreciate being taken for granted in that way. Like i said before, make sure you have all of the facts before saying anything, then wait 24 hours to digest it all. And do have your Plan B ready, just in case. That way you will have a good time no matter what happens. Worst case is you will meet some new ladies that you know are real and have a pretty guide to your travels. How can that be bad?
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Hans,
You do all your communication, via agency? You are six months into emotions and so on, perhaps you need to hit her up for direct communication. This is by no-means unreasonable request! If need be go directly to Mrs. Wang or whatever and let them know, your communication, needs to take a GIANT leap forward!!! Like you say...you are not rich and this trip has been planned, supposedly by both of you(at least with you).
Like some of the others have suggested, take a step back and calm down first! Your mind is racing with negativity and this will kill everytthing! Be casual and find answers first...casually!!! Same time, don't waste time! You have less than a month and you will be on Chinese soil. Just in case things don't go as anticipated have back up thoughts( hard to do, when your six months and emotionally involved...BUTT do it!!!
Your best bet is direct communication now!!! You posted this thread cuz your pissed off...well use that energy in a way that will work for you! Plus, don't expect ANYTHING when you arrive there...I know you have read many of the other threads of FAILED FIRST TRIPS...DON'T ADD YOURSELF TO THIS LIST! :dodgy: I wish you the best of luck bro!
Jim
the only problem with this is that he doesn't exactly have a lot of leverage now. If he didn't plan the trip yet then I'd say it's time to define the relationship (haha famous phrase of american women when they want you to buy the cow). I don't like the manager and translator going. You know they are going to hit him up for fees. I would tell Wang thanks but no thanks if she says that you will be charged. Obviously you are going to ask her this. This last minute two extra people stuff I don't like, and it is a typical chinese business move to fleece some more money from you.
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Han's
contrary to what others have said here, a traditional Chinese wedding is planned months in advance, hell sometimes the wedding photo's are conducted weeks in advance of the actual ceremony. So there is no-way she would not have known about her best friends wedding date, especially as she is going to be the ''maid of honour''
I'm not saying that all is her fault, as we all know what a lot of these agencies are like and it certainly sounds as if she's being manipulated by her agency....
Personally i see this very much along the same lines as yourself. i would tell her that as a student, there is no-way financially you can change your travel plans at this late stage, and ask her what she wants to do, ...putting the ball firmly back in her court. Based on what she comes back with, basically decides what you are going to do about your trip to China!!
If the worst comes to the worst, believe me, there are plenty more decent Chinese ladies that would love to be in your ladies shoes, and be more than happy to take over your affections..... You can always Ask Willy for some tips ...lol!!!
David....
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The past few days have not been the best of my life, is one way to put it. At times such as these, this board is a life saver, really. Thank you all for your comments and support!
I'm afraid this will be a long one...
First of all (to abigbutt): It is partly my fault we have not been able to do a webcam meeting. I asked early on for a face to face webcam meeting and she said she was too shy to do it alone, she wanted a translator with her. Since she’s working in Foshan and the agency is located in her home town Zhanjiang, she would have to do a 400 km trip just for the webcam meeting. That made it anything but spontaneous. However, I have had trouble getting a webcam to work with my computer (I use a Mac). MSN on Mac does not support webcam at all and iChat doesn’t seem to work with other software. Simply put, it has been hard to make it happen and this fall has been one of the busiest of my entire life. So we’ve done EMF’s and Chinese emails. I have made repeated requests for her QQ number (and her phone number), I have given her mine and my MSN nick but she has always ignored these requests. I first thought that it was the translator who simply didn’t translate it to her but she has also ignored my requests when written in emails in Chinese. I don’t know why, but I am beginning to wonder (more on that topic further down).
JimB, I know I left some things out. I was upset and all I saw when I first read her letter was that she was going to a wedding on the day of my arrival. When I reread it, I saw the details too. That is why.
So, back on topic again then:
I sent a letter to my lady about the wedding thing on Tuesday night. I rewrote it several times and in the end, it was not an accusatory letter. I merely told her I was very surprised with the situation because we had already agreed on the plans and that I would not be able to accompany her to the wedding. I got a quick and short reply. She wrote that the wedding was ”put off” and that I did not have to worry anymore. She would write me a longer letter ”tonight”. That was on Wednesday.
I had promised her to send something special to her email on her birthday, December 3, but said I would wait until we had cleared the confusion that had arised (no pressure there!). So after the short reply from her, I felt I should send her the little surprise I had, which was a short recording of me speaking Chinese to her and wishing her happy birthday etc. I also attached a "Zhu Ni Shengri Kuaile" picture. (I had told her before that I would bring the real birthday gift myself when I go to China).
That was on Thursday morning Swedish time, (late afternoon Chinese time). Within 50 minutes from the moment I sent her the email, I receive her EMF, which she apparently wrote last night since it was dated December 2. She explained the situation, said she was sorry that she had caused the confusion and expressed her longing for our first meeting etc. Well, it is easier to just paste her explanation:
"These days I keep calling my friend to get the first hand information, hoping she will eventually put off the wedding ceremony, and my hope comes true! She told me she can't get the wedding photo album before the original date of wedding ceremony as planned, so she have to put of the ceremony. That means our plan to meet in Zhanjiang remains the same! The heavy stone in my heart is finally gone while I got this news."
I found it a bit weird but accepted the explanation, what else can I do. One thing bothers me, though. At the end of the letter, after the dating (December 2) she wrote a PS:
"I have got your beautiful birthday card and song from my email! I am so happy!!! Thank you so much, my love. I love you!!!!"
First of all, how could she possibly know about this in a letter written the day before? Did she immediately call/email the agency asking them to add that PS or (more likely) did the translator do it? If my lady wrote it, why didn’t she just send me a short reply on my email?
Second, I did not send her a song (it was an mp3-file, but it was certainly not a song!). Or was it just a mistranslation? What do you read out of this? Is her email controlled by the agency too? The email is an 126.com account, if that tells you anything.
To be honest, all I have to support that she’s real are the photos of her and her family. I would prefer the naked truth here if someone believe they’ve got it...:s
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Han's
The Agency controlled emails are mostly Yahoo and 126.com accounts, so more than possible that this is a controlled email account. Test it by sending an email through that account and see what happens. If you get a reply in English, never pay for another EMF again, because that email address is your ladies agency controlled email address....
Oh, it's common for poems and the like to be labelled as ''SONGS'' in China ...weired but true!! haha!!
David
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David, what do you mean "send an email through that account"? Should I get a 126.com account myself and email her or just email my new fake account from my own email address...?
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Han's,
You said that her email account is a 126.com account Right?? If that is so, send her an email, as you would in an EMF to that email address and see if it is answered in English. Send it from your own regular email address, if it comes back with a translated reply from your lady, you will know it's an agency controlled email address. No need for any fake addresses Han's, just send the test/sample email as you would normally from your normal email address.... What i'm saying is, that if a translated reply comes back to you from your lady, there is no-need to ever purchase EMF'S again from chnlove, as you have your ladies agency account email address....
David.....
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But we have been sending emails to each other for months and she (or whoever it is) has always been replying in Chinese. That has been the point with our email communcation, to make me practice my Chinese "skills". So you mean that I should just write in English and see if I still get a reply from her in Chinese? Do you really think they would expose themselves that easily after they/she have been writing that her English is very bad (she has been writing simple sentences like "I miss you" in English, otherwise we have only been communcating in Chinese in our emails).
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Han's,
If you don't try, you won't know, ....will you?? The fact is, that all ladies have an agency account email address. All i'm suggesting, ...is a test to maybe find out if her email address is in fact, her agency account address. It's totally up to you, if you want to try or not!!
David....
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Don't get me wrong, I just wanted to make sure I understood you right! Me head is a bit fuzzy, I haven't slept much the past two days and it was a very long day at work... :blush: Of course I'll try!
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Han's,
No problem, no offense taken or surmised... I can understand how you must be feeling right now, with all these thoughts running through your head. All i can say is don't let it get to you too much. You can make this trip work for you, ...which ever way it goes....
David.....
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Hans your over thinking this way to much.Its tearing you up.Try to relax.Get some sleep.It will look all different to you.After you have had time to think about it.Your under the 24 hour rule.Till after you make direct contact with the lady.Direct contact means a face to face meeting.
Then you are still under the 24 hour rule.Until you get to the point where you can relax around the lady.Your headed for a crash.You need to Slow down.
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Scott you missed the point of my post.At no point and time did I or any other member tell Hans to roll over.What I told him was to slow down.He is over thinking this.Just like you over thinking things.You guys get inside your own heads and over think this and wreck yourself.Before even making the trip to see what this is about.
That is all that was stated.That is what the 24 hour rule is there for.So you guys will slow down.Let yourselves see this from both sides instead of one.I know of a few members here.Who wrecked there relationships.Because they didn't slow down.And they wrote there intended lady some really crazy things.How do I know what they wrote there ladies?They send the letters to me by Pm.And ask me what they did wrong.And I tell them.So next time they don't make the same mistake.And maybe by knowing this they don't make the same mistake again.
Probably 8 out of 10 of these relationships are destroyed by the men.Why is the man to blame most of the time?Because we set are selves up to fail.Do we do it on purpose yes.We have all these preconceived notions and stereotyping going on in are heads.And then we get ourselves all screwed up and we can't think straight.Then are own doubts and fears start playing into are heads.
This is where Hans is at.He has wrote letters to this lady for 5 months.No web cam. no phone calls.He has some attachment to this lady.She threw a wrench in the works the other day.So self doubt.Has reared it's ugly head.What he has read here about fake ladies fake profiles bad agencies is all running a muck in his head.So no matter what you say to him.Or I say to him.It is not gonna make any difference now until he makes the trip.And sees for himself.
That being said.He needs the 24 hour rule.So he doesn't throw his own wrench into the works.And screw this up.So she doesn't leave him setting in the hotel room by himself.So I don't have to set here and read his sad tale.Because he threw his own wrench into the works.
I would much rather read his success story here.Then another story of a failure.In defense of Hans yes this is a much bigger leap then most of us made.Hans has put his money into this.And at his age and going to college.And taking night courses to learn Chinese. the money was hard to come by.And it isn't easily replaced.So I understand where Hans is coming from He wants the sure thing.In his situation I don't blame him.We all want the sure thing.
But in his case it doesn't look like a sure thing.Because of the no web chats no phone calls,Translator interference.So he is going to have to go with what he's got.The 24 hour rule in his case will give him allot better odds of making this work.Because it isn't giving him a Chance to stick his foot in his mouth.
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No, Maxx, I am not looking for the "sure thing". There is no such thing in love and relationships. I am, however, trying to minimize the risks and buy myself some security before I go on the biggest trip of my life. I think that is a pretty fair request. I did not question her a bit before she told me about the wedding thing. Before that, nothing like that had happened in our communication. I wrote her a very calm letter afterwards, not an accusatory one, and I don't regret anything I wrote there. The 24 hour rule is a good one, even though I did not stick to it completely this time.
You are right that I have some doubts and fears right now. With only a few weeks left, I was not expecting a shaky ride like this. On the contrary, I was expecting us to move even closer to each other based on the trust we have created before.
I may be overthinking this, I know. That is why I post my thoughts here, to get other people to see them from their perspective. I don't want to go to China only to find out that all the doubts and fears I had were true. I need at least some things to support that she is honest and reliable and that the agency is not pulling all the strings here. That is all I want. What I got so far is pictures of her and her family as well as the package she sent me months ago.
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Hans everybody has doubts and fears when they do this.To one extent or another.And maybe I used the wrong words.I know you weren't looking for the sure thing you were just looking to make this less risky.
You did the right thing when you posted your question here.That is what this forum is supposed to be all about helping each other.And trying to keep each other out of trouble with are ladies.
Hans good luck on your trip to China.I know this is a big step.We were all at the same point at one time or another.
Maxx
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Hi Hans,
Sorry about your lady problems. As you can see from my own thread you are not the only one with problems. Brothers who have had an easy time with their ladies are very lucky indeed. I'm still learning about China, but I think disorganisation is just a part of the national psyche. My lady's timekeeping is very hmmm. Maybe the whole nation is like it. I spent a month in Japan, and of all the trains I caught only one was ever delayed. That delay was 2 minutes. Yet I caught just 2 trains in China and both were late. Much the same thing happened at the airports.
I guess the Chinese have a different attitute to weddings than we do. In the UK the preparations are elaborate and the date is fixed often 2-3 years in advance. A lot of Western women seem to spend their whole lives planning their wedding :icon_biggrin:.
The 24 hour rule is good though. I've just used it on my boss in order to overcome a very difficult situation in work :s.
I guess I always think of what Kennedy said about the moon landings - we don't do these things because they are easy, we do them because they are hard. Going to the moon - well that's just rocket science compared to getting a Chinese wife back to your own country :icon_cheesygrin:.
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Hans, you need to get out of your head for a moment, go drink some beer, do something that's not related to her.
The facts are, there is no longer any wedding diversion to worry about, she is looking forward to meeting you, what's the problem? if she is 400km away from doing a webcam and you can't do it on your mac then forget about it, its a non runner, what's the point in thinking about it. You will know if she is for real when you meet her, my guess is that within the first few minutes you will know.
The translator charges are ridiculous, the price I was quoted in Guangzhou was 200RMB a day, plus of course the daily expenses such as food, bus rides etc. You will definitely be able to negotiate this, there will be plenty of college students etc only too willing to practise their English and spend the day with you and your lady. My suggestion is when you meet her ask he if she can find a translator, heck write it in an email to her i bet the translator will suddenly offer a better price if they see themselves loosing the business.
If the worst comes to the worst, the agency will only be too happy to introduce you to someone else. Don't forget the girl is probably paying you a least the equivalent of a months wages (and quite likely several months wages) for her to meet you to the agency, if thats not showing committal to you than I don't know what is.
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Remembering, planning is completely a Western concept. Things will change at the last minute, come up unannounced, and that is ok in China. Just roll with the flow.
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Hans,
I've never been to China.
I've never even kissed a Chinese girl.
Korean, Japanese, but never Chinese.
I am still a newbie.
But if a woman opened up an important schedule for me and made a way for me to see her I would not question it. I hope.
I know there is doubts. I have them about going to see Peggy. Every man here has had them.
You have seen things go bad for others but bottom line is this; You will not know if you do not go. Can you live with that? How many times have the men on this site said it to me? I don't even want to know how many.
Do what the others who have been are telling you. Get out of your head. You've got a month. Take a weekend with a trusted friend and go have a good time. How does the old saying go; "Drink and be merry for tomorrow you go to China."
Why is it when we men are on the edge of happiness that we begin to over think the issues?
Good Luck (Go to China, keep your mouth shut about your concerns, and see)
Shaun
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Irishman, the problem is that I have more and more doubts about how much of the communication she has been doing herself and how much the agency is responsible for. The fact that she always tells me to contact the agency if I have any questions (and gives me the contact info to several of the translators as well as the head of the agency, Ms Wang from time to time) is also an indication of that. Of course, I could be completely wrong. I’ve seen pictures of my lady and Ms Wang together at the agency, maybe she just trusts this woman a lot.
It’s easy to say "roll with the flow" and "don’t worry" to others. It is rather more difficult to act like that yourself. At least I think so.
Abigbutt, doing something that involves emotion with a completely lack of expectation – is that even possible? I know we discussed it in another thread a while ago and I just can’t see how it is possible to do something like this and not have expectations. I think everyone have expectations deep inside. Sometimes the line between expectations and hopes can be thin, though.
Thanks for the encouraging words, Shaun. Too bad I have no time to party since every hour awake is about either work or studies at the moment...:-/
I need some time to think about all this during the weekend. I’ll write her a letter and send it on Monday and then later during the week, depending on her answer of course, I guess I will decide if I should carry this through or cancel the trip altogether. The feeling is 50/50 right now, but that might change for the better next week. I am not interested in being made a fool when I arrive in China either, having invested my savings into this. And if the lady doesn’t show up at all or it turns out the agency has been doing all the communication (which is my greatest fear), I would not be interested in using their services for a second. Then I would probably stay in Guangzhou as a tourist instead. So, we’ll see what happens.
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Hans if your tickets are non refundable then go to Guangzhou anyhow, the experience is nothing anything before that you will have experienced if you have never been there before.
I also can put you in touch with some ladies if you are interested (if it comes to that PM me, and I'll give you more details, I will make sure you are looked after :D)..as a well as a 200RMB a day translator if you want one!
My ladies friends apparently are just dying to meet nice western boys after meeting me I am told!! They are all lovely girls and if you don't hit it off you will still have a good fun time (clean fun..Willy down boy!!), that i promise.
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Sounds great, Irishman!! I'm 27 so no 30+ women, right? :icon_cheesygrin:
I will certainly contact you if it comes to that. I have nothing against seeing Guangzhou either.
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Sounds great, Irishman!! I'm 27 so no 30+ women, right? :icon_cheesygrin:
I will certainly contact you if it comes to that. I have nothing against seeing Guangzhou either.
Hah, don't worry about that. If you need to go down that road, and i sincerely hope you do not, then i'll tell more in PM.
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Hans if you go to Guangzhou then drop in on my lady's agency (Guangzhou Daniel Agency is their approximate name, I think they're in Panyu). I believe they are a decent agency and have some nice ladies. A lot of them speak some English as well. I didn't actually visit the agency when I was in China, as my lady doesn't live in that province. Tell them I sent you!
As to your current lady, you just have to listen to your gut instinct. I've had some good and bad (mostly good!) advice from my brothers here, but the longer my relationship goes on, the more I realise my gut instinct has been dead right all along :icon_cheesygrin:.
Have a great trip!
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Hans... If you are getting a feeling of doubt you must think about this one more time... I think that you must get some feeling back from the Lady.. I know that this is a difficult thing to deal with but it is only up to you to know... Go with your feeling in the heart.. Remember that a coward man never kiss a beautiful girl...
Peter
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Scott you missed the point of my post.At no point and time did I or any other member tell Hans to roll over.What I told him was to slow down.He is over thinking this.Just like you over thinking things.You guys get inside your own heads and over think this and wreck yourself.Before even making the trip to see what this is about.
That is all that was stated.That is what the 24 hour rule is there for.So you guys will slow down.Let yourselves see this from both sides instead of one.I know of a few members here.Who wrecked there relationships.Because they didn't slow down.And they wrote there intended lady some really crazy things.How do I know what they wrote there ladies?They send the letters to me by Pm.And ask me what they did wrong.And I tell them.So next time they don't make the same mistake.And maybe by knowing this they don't make the same mistake again.
Probably 8 out of 10 of these relationships are destroyed by the men.Why is the man to blame most of the time?Because we set are selves up to fail.Do we do it on purpose yes.We have all these preconceived notions and stereotyping going on in are heads.And then we get ourselves all screwed up and we can't think straight.Then are own doubts and fears start playing into are heads.
This is where Hans is at.He has wrote letters to this lady for 5 months.No web cam. no phone calls.He has some attachment to this lady.She threw a wrench in the works the other day.So self doubt.Has reared it's ugly head.What he has read here about fake ladies fake profiles bad agencies is all running a muck in his head.So no matter what you say to him.Or I say to him.It is not gonna make any difference now until he makes the trip.And sees for himself.
That being said.He needs the 24 hour rule.So he doesn't throw his own wrench into the works.And screw this up.So she doesn't leave him setting in the hotel room by himself.So I don't have to set here and read his sad tale.Because he threw his own wrench into the works.
I would much rather read his success story here.Then another story of a failure.In defense of Hans yes this is a much bigger leap then most of us made.Hans has put his money into this.And at his age and going to college.And taking night courses to learn Chinese. the money was hard to come by.And it isn't easily replaced.So I understand where Hans is coming from He wants the sure thing.In his situation I don't blame him.We all want the sure thing.
But in his case it doesn't look like a sure thing.Because of the no web chats no phone calls,Translator interference.So he is going to have to go with what he's got.The 24 hour rule in his case will give him allot better odds of making this work.Because it isn't giving him a Chance to stick his foot in his mouth.
I can say that this applies to me several months ago. Put me in the 80% range of screwing things up. Maxx the first three paragraphs is what happened to me.
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OK, an update here. I wrote my lady a very frank letter telling her what I expected from our communication and what I have missed so far. I was a bit concerned she might think I was too frank, to be honest. But I had no choice but to tell her my true thoughts. It turned out it was just what was needed. We've had a really good discussion and it seems that she understands that I am not questioning her sincerety, I am just looking for some kind of security before visiting her.
She has explained that the wedding thing is not in our planning anymore and also apologized for all the confusion. And most importantly, she finally gave me all her contact info. Her QQ number, her home address (I only had the address to the company she works for) and phone number. Now we're doing what we should have done months ago: writing text messages in pinyin. It seems she has been very shy to talk because of her poor English. Maybe my recorded message for her did the trick as it showed her that I do speak some Chinese and she can understand my poor putonghua.
Last weekend I was seriously contemplating to pull the plug and save my money for something else next year. Now we're back on track again and I can focus on my Chinese exam next week. :icon_cool: Of course there will be doubts, I'm sure from both of us, in the future but now I feel I have got what I need to make the step and visit my lady in China.
Unless something happens very suddenly once again, I will be making my trip to Zhanjiang on December 27 according to plan. I want to thank you all for your thoughts here. It has been invaluable for me during moments of doubt and insecurity to read your advice and be able to cool down. Thank you all!
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Wow, well done Hans!
I have also found that sometimes our ladies need to be pushed a bit in order to get information out of them.
Hopefully your relationship will be transformed after some QQ'ing - when I find the Google translator too hard going I usually resort to emoticons and dancing bananas. I can safely say I have enough dancing bananas to cope with most situations :icon_cheesygrin:.
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Good for you Hans. I hope it all works out.
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Great news Hans. Life is not too good to be true :icon_biggrin:
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Hen hao Hans!!
So happy for you, keep us updated, have a great trip.
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Wonderful news. Good luck on your upcoming trip.
Shaun
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Wonderful news Hans. I am so happy to hear that things are back on track.
It seems she has been very shy to talk because of her poor English.
I hear this so often. They don't seem to realize that just hearing their voice..whether in Chinese or English, is such a wonderful thing.
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that is good news and martin is right some are nervous about their
language skills which makes them talk less. and then their are some who just chat
away and it makes for colourful conversations
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I tell you though once they are past the fear of not knowing English, look out. It is a thousand questions. Peggy wants to learn how to pronounce words. I find myself now seeking simple words. I mistakenly said "inexperience" last night. I spent well over an hour trying to get her to say it. It appears she has a problems between m and n. But we got there and she learned it. I just know she will used it tonight.
I am hunting inexpensive book on phonics.
Shaun
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I intentionally use big words for my wife to look up. i use at least 2 a session. Once she looks them up, she doesnt forget. So it helps a lot.
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Hans,
I've never been to China.
I've never even kissed a Chinese girl.
Korean, Japanese, but never Chinese.
I am still a newbie.
But if a woman opened up an important schedule for me and made a way for me to see her I would not question it. I hope.
I know there is doubts. I have them about going to see Peggy. Every man here has had them.
You have seen things go bad for others but bottom line is this; You will not know if you do not go. Can you live with that? How many times have the men on this site said it to me? I don't even want to know how many.
Do what the others who have been are telling you. Get out of your head. You've got a month. Take a weekend with a trusted friend and go have a good time. How does the old saying go; "Drink and be merry for tomorrow you go to China."
Why is it when we men are on the edge of happiness that we begin to over think the issues?
Good Luck (Go to China, keep your mouth shut about your concerns, and see)
Shaun
Shaun, what do you mean youve never kissed a chinese girl
OOHHHHH what a lie.... I'm sending that to peggy....LOL
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Shaun, what do you mean youve never kissed a chinese girl
OOHHHHH what a lie.... I'm sending that to peggy....LOL
Don,
And how would you know?
That's my story and I am sticking to it.
Truth be known I can't wait to get there.
Shaun
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Shaun when you arrive look us up here in guangzhou
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Shaun when you arrive look us up here in guangzhou
Ted,
I will contact you when I have the time firmed up.
You are on my list of people to see. First one is Peggy of course. :icon_cheesygrin:
Shaun
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Unless something happens very suddenly once again, I will be making my trip to Zhanjiang on December 27 according to plan.
Hans
I think you're doing the right thing. If your air tickets are non-refundable, then it would seem to be a crying shame to throw all this money away. Once you have paid for the tickets, it is possible to do everything else (accommodation, eating, getting around, etc) very cheaply.
In my humble opinion, I think there is no way of knowing whether it's going to work out. Some things suggest it's going to work out, and other things, suggest that there are a real problems in the relationship.
So I think what you're doing is best. You go, looking forward to seeing her and spending some time with her. If it works out, great. But if not, then you just need to flow along with that too.
Have a think about what you might do if it doesn't work out.
When I heard someone here suggest that it is worthwhile thinking through what you're going to do if it doesn't work out, I thought to myself that this sounded really cold and heartless. So the first time I went to China, I had given no thought at all to the possibility of it not working out. When it didn't work out I remember lying in my hotel room in the dark for a few days in Macau, during the Chinese New Year Festival. God they were a hard few days. It seems like the end of the world at the time, but it isn't, and life goes on, and you're sadder but wiser.
Danny
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Yes, Danny, it's probably a good idea to have a back up plan. And I will. Life offers no guarantees. The flight tickets are refundable since I bought them with my VISA card. But right now I have a much better feeling than I had before I had the serious conversation with my lady. I've decided to go for it. I have MSN contact with a girl in Guangzhou (just friendly contact, I'm not interested in her in any other way) and we've talked about meeting if I have time. I'll call her if it comes to that. I'd much rather stay in a big city like Guangzhou than in Zhanjiang if it doesn't work out between me and my lady.
I can understand what it must have been like for you during those days at the hotel. Not a happy experience. But I also know that we take our experiences with us and learn from them. Bad experiences are experiences too.
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Shaun
looking forward to it see when you get here
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First off brother she is proud to be with you, or she wouldnt have ask you to join her. And if say you were the Best man at your best friends wedding you would'nt want to miss it. And you would be proud as hell to have her with you. One thing I have learned about these women expect the unexpected, you gotta be flexible. And I would think the fact that you will change you plans to accommidate her need, You will be her hero.
And also a big Chinese wedding sounds like it would be very cool. But then I like soaking up all I can when I go to a place I have never been.
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First off brother she is proud to be with you, or she wouldnt have ask you to join her. And if say you were the Best man at your best friends wedding you would'nt want to miss it. And you would be proud as hell to have her with you. One thing I have learned about these women expect the unexpected, you gotta be flexible. And I would think the fact that you will change you plans to accommidate her need, You will be her hero.
And also a big Chinese wedding sounds like it would be very cool. But then I like soaking up all I can when I go to a place I have never been.
I will second that