China Romance
General Discussion and Useful Links => Ask An Experienced Member => Topic started by: Neil on May 13, 2009, 03:24:28 pm
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I know it's the tests of faith that help us grow into better people but I really didn't need this. Turns out my separation agreement my ex had me sign was never filed, she has the only copy. Even if I could get it tomorrow, which I can't, it'll be a tight squeeze to fit it in before August when I plan on going to China. Best case scenario I'll be going to China with a passport that says separated. I likely won't be able to marry my girl this trip but I can put a positive swing on that and we can plan a proper wedding with family invited. I would love to have my parents at my side at our wedding.
I know it's a bit early to be thinking about marriage when we haven't even met yet. My biggest concern is I don't want to mislead her. I also don't want to ruin our relationship by telling her I simply can't marry her. We've talked of marriage but nothing specific, just that we want to be married. She's not an impulsive young girl, she's an adult and I'm sure she needs to get to know me in person. She may even want to visit Canada before making any final decisions.
The feeling in the pit of my stomach is gone just having written this much. I guess I just need some support from the brotherhood and I know it'll all work out in the end.
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I know it's a bit early to be thinking about marriage when we haven't even met yet.
Not really. Zhifang and I talked about marriage before we had met...and on my first (and so far only) trip to China, we got married. Neil, don't worry about what others think...we are all in the same boat here, and understand you. Others got married on their first trip.
As far as getting married in China, you would need more than a separation agreement. You will need an actual divorce. After you get a divorce, you will need to get a Certificate of Marriageability...also known as a Single Certificate. I am certain the Chinese have a consulate in Vancouver. I hired an immigration firm to help me with my certificate...this might be something you might want to consider, as the 6 hour drive to Vancouver might be a bit much.
Just curious, are you right in Revelstoke? I had supper the other night in Craigellachie.
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I agree with Martin on the marriage time frame. Me and Vicky have known each other for four weeks now and it has been a blast. We are saying marriage in almost every letter lately. I expect that we will decide to get married in the next three to four weeks. I expect to return as a married man from my trip to China in August.
There is nothing to worry about that. But I can see your problem with the single certificate. As I don't live in the states, I don't know your rules over there. But I wish you that you will find a solution to your problem.
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Martin is right - you need to get divorced first. Being seperated means you are still married by law. Since I just went through a divorce with my ex, I can tell you that you do not need to file a seperation agreement. We never had any written document to our seperation. You just need to be able to prove that you have been living apart, ie: seperated for 1 year, then you can file for divorce. The bad news is that once you file for divorce, it can take 4 to 5 months before aproved. Mine took almost 5 months from 1st filing until I got my divorce. But this was Alberta and maybe B.C. is faster. Since I had a child under 16 I had to also take a course on raising a child as seperated parents. It was mandatory here in Alberta. Talk about a slap in the face. It was not me that wanted to be seperated - but from misfortune came my chance to find a new life and new love.
You will get frustrated while trying to file for your divorce. Checking the mailbox everday for the letter saying your divorce is approved so you can proceed with your new girl plays hard on your emotions. Now it is checking the mailbox looking for news from immigration the keeps me in suspense. The daily little dissapointments requires fortitude, so I wish you strength and prudence on your journey.
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My divorce took just under 4 months...but we had a separation agreement, and it was a joint application, which made it much faster. My divorce was finalized on Feb 6...then it was a rush to get the single certificate, before heading to China at the end of March. Got it done...but it would have been easier had I gotten divorced much earlier, instead of leaving it to the last minute.
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Oh yeah, I know, I was working on the divorce with my lawyer, that's how I found out my separation agreement's not at her lawyer's and I don't have a copy. It's an amicable divorce and I just need a copy of it to finalize it. If I'd kept a copy of it, I'd be divorced by now.
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Thank you Mike. I was pretty down all night at work tonight but you're absolutely right. So I might not be able to get married this trip, I can definitely go and have a great time anyway.
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Neil, whatever happens, I would say that if you can't marry right now in China with your lady, you will do it later. It just will take some more time, but... you will both enjoy that moment, so, nevermind about it ;) And between your next trip to China and the time where you will marry, you will share more and more things, for sure :)
Anyway, the only thing I think to "memorize" is that you know what you want to do, whatever it can take some time... or not :)
As man can say, too, going slowly... but surely ;)
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I was in the same situation nearly twenty years ago, when I fell in love with my first wife, a beautiful Hungarian woman, who passed away about a year ago. So long as you're serious about explaining the situation with your woman, it shouldn't be a problem.
You just have to think about the long term. You plan to be with your new woman for twenty years at least. What's a delay of six, even twelve months. It's like nothing. And besides, if there's nothing you can do about it, there's no point in worrying about it, or making yourself unhappy.
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Dan has a few points there. I have posted this before but :s I or I should say we, made plans depending on our meeting. It's been left open if and when we would marry. We both agreed to figure this out once we meet. This give either of us a way out if needed and no promises broken. It ranges from getting married the first day to waiting a few visits.
So tell her what you need to. There may be a problem but you will fix it as soon as you can. She may except this not wanting to rush it either?
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Danny is right... Be honest and tell her about your problems. You will find out how much she really care for you.. I didn't get married on my first trip because my divorce wasn't finished. Instead I will get married on the trip in July...
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Well, she needed a day to get her thoughts in order and it was a rough day for me, but she's behind me 100%. I don't know how I lucked out with such a wonderful woman. You know, she was the first to send me an admirer mail. I had her on my favorites but figured she was too pretty for me at first, she must have had lots of guys messaging her. So freakin happy! It must have been the chocolate. :P
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Wow Neil. How frustrating this must be. I hope it all turns out well in the end. Keep up the good fight and see it through. It sounds like she'll wait as long as she needs to and I remember when I had to lay some not so great news on my lady, now my wife, and she didn't skp a beat and stuck behind me 100%.
Stay the course.....It'l work out.
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Neil, everything happens for a reason. You may not like what is going on but it will work out for the better. Trust me on this. I have heard that since I was a little boy. My mother has always said this. She again told me when I was going crazy about my divorce. I did not want it at the time, but my ex insisted. Now I have Angel. We are getting married in August. My life has taken a turn that i could never have foreseen. I am happier right now than I have almost ever been in my life. (The birth of my children and Grandchild are no.1)
The knowledge that she is backing you no matter what is a big reason right there.
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Just be honest and up front with her Neil. If you love each other it will work out in the end. I agree with the previous advice...
go for the divorce asap. And let you lady know what you are doing. Good luck with your relationship!:heart:
Big Dave
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I just wanted to update my situation. I started talking to my girl in February, in May I started this thread after finding out my separation had never been official, my own fault for being stupid and not taking care of my own crap.
I was unable to get a copy of our original separation agreement so I had to hire a lawyer and get another written, get my ex to sign it, have her served so she can contest it if she wants (she's signed it and hasn't contested it).
Today is one month after she's been served, I got called to my lawyer's to sign some stuff and now it's going to the Judge. He can take as long as he likes to sign it, or he can find problems and get us to fix them. Once he signs it I have to wait another freaking month until it's final.
My trip to China is scheduled for August 17 so I'm definitely not going to be in a position to be married when I'm there. My girl knows the situation, we were hoping this would be done in time for my trip. I picked the date so I could be with her for her birthday.
Now I have to write my sweetheart and tell her the bad news. I don't know what the result will be - she's an amazing woman and has been my rock through this so far. I'm sure it will all work out in the end but it is definitely a frustrating journey.
P.S.
Ex-wives suck!
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Sorry to hear that, Neil. I agree with Jim, everything happens for a reason even if it feels bad. Trust in yourself and your lady, then it will work out in the end.
If your lady loves you, she will stick with you and understand the situation. It is not your fault. Be happy for meeting her soon and enjoy your trip.
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Niel,
I think you've been dealt a little bit of luck, at least you will of actually met your Lady, before jumping in to a marriage that you could have possibly regretted a little later on.
General Forum,
I know that there's a lot of you here, will think differently, and talk about leaps of faith and/or other clishays. Leaps of faith, are one thing, and yes we all take them during the course of our lives. Leaps of faith, into getting married to a woman thousands of miles away, that you've never met in person is quite another. You have no idea, if your even going to be compatible as two people, let alone anything else. The ramifications of these types of quick marriages, can be devastating to all involved when things don't work out the way you had imagined/planned.
We have members here that are talking about marriage after just 4 weeks, what can they possibly know about that lady in 4 weeks? (or, she him) Were talking about marriage here now, I'm maybe old fashioned, but to me marriage is for life. Don't you think, you owe it to yourself and your lady, that both of you are sure about what your doing is right for you both. And don't you think that knowing what you both need to know about each other, is worth taking the time and effort in getting it right??
For those of you that are planning on taking this route to marriage, can you please explain to me the thought process behind it??
I'm not here trying to be clever, or anything else, you will do, what ever will do, no matter what i say here. It's just that i can't understand why anyone would, contemplate such an important life decision such as marriage so easily!! What ever happened to courtship, even if it is over computer based technology?? Why not go on that first trip to China to meet the lady first, surely a live breathing lady is going to tell you a hell of a lot more, than a thousand translated EMF's, or even webcam conversations.
As i said above it's just my view, some will agree and some won't.....
David......
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David, I gave myself the 24 hour rule on this same subject because I didn't want to come across as reprimanding. Which it sounded like before I canceled it out. I understand that everyone wants to find and have a wife for life. What I don't understand is the decision is made in a few letters. You have to go and spend a few weeks with the lady at least. Find the common ground, compatibility and chemistry. It's a big step and costs to much to marry on a whim.
My lady had talked about this. We feel we are right for each other but still are giving each other an out if we meet face to face and feel different. We talked about it in EMF's a few times but recently I wanted to hear it from her on the phone. She had trouble with the words she wanted to say so she wrote it again in an EMF. But it shows we are in the same mindset. Another thing she said before I put her reply was if I was not happy with her she would find another for me? I said Noooooooo!! but she gives mention to it. It shows we are both "realistic".
I meant to say yes, absolutely! I said until now, we have been so attracted and commited to each other, and when we meet my darling, we will definitely be sure of that, and I long for that meeting so much! and what I also said is that if you find your song not good enough when me meet, don't being afraid of hurting me, and find a better one! :) I know I should not have said that, my darling, but in my mind, I do hope you can be happy all the time, and your happiness is the most important thing for me!
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Fair comment David, I personally agree with this perspective, but do understand that others might not share my point of view and already feel strongly enough to get married first time.
Indeed, Ed and Martin are two examples that spring to mind that this can indeed work out just fine.
However for me, i just couldn't plan to do that, although I'd still like to have the option in my back pocket if I'd been talking to a girl for months on msn , webcam etc and found her just as great in real life as the the computer person is. The super efficient Irish government takes four months to prepare my paperwork and it has to be done by them or they wont recognise our marriage so no impromptu marriages for me!, which is a good thing really....isn't it..I think....
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Vince,
I read somewhere in your posts here, that when you meet your lady, you want to see and feel her passion for you. .....God, isn't that just one of the most important things a couple should have between them!! I don't know how long you've been corresponding with your lady, but it seems that your discussing all the right things with her, and finding that common ground you talk about. No-one expects that your going to 100% compatible, geez, .... who the hell is? But the higher up that percentage scale, the better it is for both of you.
That great unknown called Chemistry, is the one that takes you to wherever you want to go, or kills it all stone dead. That's the one thing, no-one, taking this quick leap of faith will ever know until they actually meet face to face..... I only hope there luck holds out for them!!
David.....
Irishman,
Yeah, i know what your saying, no-one can say, ''never say never'', it will always work for some, the logic of percentages say it has too. What annoys me more than anything, is this idea, ''well it worked for him so it can work for me'' ...well that's just crazy thinking... Your chances with that mindset are close to nil. But, ....we all at the end of the day do what we want to do, and have to live with the consequences when it goes wrong.
I See, your lucky too, you can't rush into anything either, even if you wanted too. Perhaps these government types know a few things that we don't ? hahaha!!
Joking apart, I'm with you on your train of thought, it's just too important a move, to screw things up. You need to be dammed sure about yourself, your partner, and your future together, before you start putting wedding rings on fingers......
David.....
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David I can see were you are coming from, If you have read my posts you will see that I am one of the people who is going to get (or those that got married) on their first trip to see their ladies.:blush:
When I get there (for the first time) in November, it will have been one year almost to the day, since we first got in touch with each other. In 'our' first 3 or 4 letters we KNEW what we were on CHNLOVE.COM for, it is a marriage site, we spoke to one another about this, and we BOTH knew why we were on it, both of us are on it to find a loving wife/husband. I am one of THOSE people that can fall in love at the drop of a hat, which I did with my lady, however, we never mentioned getting married to each other(again) for a few months, by the time we 'meet' we will be well over 200 emf's in each direction, so I think I will know quite a bit about her. I totally agree with you about 'time known, 4 weeks' people cannot really know someone proper in that time.
I can understand that you may say, 'but the chemistry?', do you not think that, so far in 8 months of writing, there 'could' be no chemistry there? If you and your lady are sincere, honest, and truthful with each other, the rest will follow, in my situation were I am a short person, (4feet 8 inches) and NOT the most handsome guy on here, I 'had' to be truthful, Keren knows about my height, as do her family, and has she said to me "I fall in love with you, for your 'kind, honest, sincere words, I am not wanting a superstar, who can easily attract other ladies, I want you, you have a wonderful personality" As for her family, they (so far) have accepted me as a 'good' western husband for the daughter/sibling.:angel:
I knew from possibly 10 letters in, that I wanted to marry her, and she knew from about 8 she has said, if you are able to get over the obstacles that ARE going to be in front of you then you have made it...However, on saying everything I have said, I will go with a bit of 'doubt' (maybe not the right word) in the back of my mind. You comment about going to 'meet' her first, maybe there are guy's like me on here that are too embarassed to say that they cannot afford to do that. Then there is what you also mentioned about a thousand emf's comparing to 'live person', that is a valid argument except for one tiny little thing that you may have overlooked, the information she has already given you in the emf's is fine, what about the language difficulty while she trying to 'tell' you things?
Sorry mate just my opinion, I just hoping and praying that what we decided to do, will work:icon_biggrin:
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Rob,
We all have to live to our economic situation, and it seems that you have done exactly that. Rob, you have or will have spent a year of putting time and effort into your relationship. You are right, you have probably covered more ground than most on here, before actually meeting your lady, and will have a far better understanding between you, as a result of all that effort. Sure there's still that actual meeting one another, to actually confirm everything's in place and that it's a goer.... only time will tell you that when you meet.
I wasn't really talking about your situation, more about some of the guy's that think 3 months or so of letters, and there off to get married. No effort or time invested, just translated letters, maybe translated emails and some webcam meetings. What sort of basis is that for a marriage, ....you know, where's the foundations, ....there isn't any!! It's so easy to let infatuations, become more than what they are, and start talking about them as if it's love, and the more they talk that way, the more they convince themselves. Anything in this world that's worth anything/having, is worth the effort/work that's required to acquire it. My experience is, that if it come's too easily, it tends to leave just as easily, and it's not even missed after a very short time.
So Rob, i think you've done everything that you can do, given your circumstances, if anyone deserves success then your right up there mate. All the best to you!!
David.......
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Thanks mate...The situation your talking about was also one that Shane had, after4 or 5 emf's he was 'selling' up, his house, his business etc, hehe...Yes your right anything that comes easy, will leave easy.
It's ok mate I know you weren't talking about my situation, but thought I'd give some of the information I gave, for some of the other guy's like you mentioned, infatuation and love is definatly two differant things, however, they ARE still 2 strings from the same bow. one cannot really go without the other, I believe..
You among many others including myself, have said many many times, that TIME and EFFORT will win the day, you only get out, what you put in.:icon_biggrin: This is where the foundations start mate, just like you mentioned about my situation...
And thanks for your comment mate.... well appreciated:icon_biggrin:
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David,
This is a great idea for discussion and I would like to participate. But, this is Niels thread. I think it is worth having its own.
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I'm going to repeat myself a little. A friend of mine was in contact with a russian woman and she was coming to visit him. I broke the news that she wasn't coming (and she didn't) But when I asked him basic questions about her he had no idea. Questions like age? height? is she divorced? He knew nothing except she had nice breasts.
So what I'm saying is get to know the woman, ask questions, think if she fits into your life and how she would. I've seen posts that say if she doesn't give an email the first week dump her? This isn't right either. Some can feel they can marry the first trip? But as far as we know there was good correspondence between them not just a few EMF's. Talk outside the EMF's anyway you can. They can be fluffed up sounding real good but later find the woman doesn't talk that way. If fact every sentence my lady writes has "Darling" in it but she doesn't know the word on the phone. It's from the phone calls I got to know the real woman I've been writing. She's the same in the EMF's but I know it's her writing just the translator puts in some fluffy words. It's all not easy. So I'm saying don't just jump on it without much thought behind it all.
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Vince: I couldn't agree more, I read stories on the general forums and say to myself "Jeez, didn't they talk about anything before visiting?" Maybe some people don't mind getting married and then finding out everything about the person, but that's not me.
David5o: Thanks, I think I agree with you on that. More than a bit of luck too. She's incredible and supportive and uplifting. A friend I hadn't seen in a while stopped me and said "I hear you're going to China to get married." I told her no, I'm going to China to meet my girlfriend. If things work out I'd love to marry her though. I'm a little choked I've had that option taken away from me but we play the cards we're dealt.
I told her we have 2 options, I can postpone my trip until I have things lined up or I can come as planned and we'll have a good time and I'll return to China at a later date. She wants me to come as planned. Game on!
Don't worry gang, I don't mind the hijacked thread, it's a good discussion.
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I'm going to see the girl I'm talking to (I hate saying my girl as she's not yet as far as I'm concerned) in 5 weeks, I have no expectations other than I hope we like each other, the translator she uses tried to put some fluffy stuff in the first couple of emails but I put a stop to it and explained that I couldn't fall in love over the internet, she fully agreed with me & the only thing that was discussed was engagement so I could live with her if I went back to teach, she was the very first girl to contact me when I joined but I ignored her for a few weeks then sent an emf, since then we correspond virtually every day & find out more & more about each other but I'm going there with the expectations of what happened to Sylvian, that way anything better than meeting me at the airport will be a bonus. As a precaution I have looked at the other girls on their site & have contacts in other city's just in case, as I'll be there for 4 weeks this time, these guys that talk about love and marriage after literally weeks really need to take a reality check. I guess I'm looking at it more like a holiday with hopefully a good outcome rather than a trip to meet my next wife.
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Neil,
No problems mate. Don't be choked about loseing that marriage option, you may of just used it!! haha!! This way, you get to meet your lady, get to know for sure how things are between you both, with no pressure what-so-ever.
So just go, and enjoy yourself and your lady. And whatever will be, will be!! ....Is that a song? haha!!
Dennis.....
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Doris day sang it i do beleave david,Whatever will be, will be
The future's not ours to see
Que sera, sera
god im getting old lol.
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LOL so am I...:huh:
I'm singing along to it as I'm reading it....lol:icon_cheesygrin:
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Victor/Rob,
I can only remember Mum singing it myself, ......i'm too young to know the words!!!!! ....he said, hahahaha!!
David....
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mpo and she sang that song in a movie to The Man Who Knew Too Much with James Stewart lol stop it vic.
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Many of us seem to agree here that writing emails and EMFs is not enough to want to marry someone. You can develop strong feelings for a person through daily communcation like this, but talking marriage is a completely different thing than just writing love letters. I feel comfortable with my lady at the moment (maybe "contact" is a better word since we haven't even met on a webcam yet), but the thing about online dating is that it could all be over in a second. She can find someone else, refuse my letters and that's it. There is no security whatsoever until the real life metting between four eyes has taken place. I could be talking to Mickey Mouse for what I know.
I know it is easy to get carried away, though. That's what happened to me with the lady I was in contact with for four months before I found out she was writing to another guy at the same time, telling the same "miss you, love you" crap.
I don't even know if me and my lady, sorry contact, will discuss engagement during my stay with her in China. I have never been engaged so it will be a huge step for me, as it should be. And I will probably feel doubt and a little insecurity until it happens. I simply can't understand how anyone can be so eager to marry someone that they are prepared to do it before they actually know the lady. Is it desperation or are they just in a great hurry...? Take your time, get to know each other on the outside and the inside!
Well, I'm not judging anyone, it's up to everyone to decide for themselves. All I can do is wishing you all luck. From what I've gathered there are a lot of decent and sincere men here searching for true love. This site is fantastic. Bless you all!
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My lady and I have been in contact with each other for almost a year now. When a question came up on the forums that I did not have an answer to I asked her. Will I marry this lady? Most likely. Even though I get answers to questions asked I'm still not sure I know enough or all about her. Sometimes it's the small things that are cute in the beginning that piss you off later. Maybe she snores like a bear? Maybe she doesn't like the a/c on when sleeping and I do. Maybe what she calls cooking is just boiling water? Your not getting these answers without going there and seeing it with your own eyes. We both know this. We even joked about it and that's why we both agreed to have an out even with the love we have between us now. The only disagreement we had was over an english word. I came to me saying "I'm not wrong your book is wrong" The sentence was "He sungs a nice song" It should be sings. Sungs is not a word, sung is. She folded and said I was probably right. Oh yeah we also are both stubborn.
It's a relationship like any other. There will be good and bad times. Just because they are chinese don't think it's all a breeze. It's not. Luckily we are very compatible and have many things in common. But I know this from all the time used finding these things out.
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Me and my Lao Poa have been writing for 5 months before I went to China. Tina said that the thing that made her decide was the letters we sent to each other. We talked about everything and got to know each other quite good before we meet. Our 12 days together was the time when I finally decided to get married to her and it was the same for her. This is our way of getting married. I can say that even if I didn't get all the information in out letters I got it by our days together in April. I also got the chance to meet her daughter and family before our marriage and I think this is very important.
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My girl is so cool.
Babe,I already told about our relationship to my sister for a long time and she will be happy for you to come and we are all welcome to you babe,They are all friendly and be good to you.Thats fine if you stay at my sister place and i told you before,I am willing to do whatever i can do for you when you in China.So Just don't worry about everything please !
:icon_cheesygrin::icon_mrgreen::D:cool:
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Hans,
Very sensible, you seem to have the right idea, of how to deal with your emotions when dealing with a lady that you've never actually met. Has to be the best idea to meet, before you start letting the bulk of all that emotional stuff out. I suppose you could call it internet courtship in a way. haha!!
I think you can call her a little more than a contact though, she is after all, hopefulluy your lady, unless you or she decide otherwise. In the long run, ....i can't see how you can fail.
David.....
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David,
I guess it's about self protection too. Once you've been hurt it's easy to keep a distance and not let yourself hope for too much, I think most of us can relate to that in some way (although we are all different when it comes to moving on after disappointments and so on). We've discussed honesty at length and I'd be very disappointed if I found out that she was writing long love letters to someone else. But I realize it could happen so I have to keep that tought in the back of my mind.
Yes, Internet courtship is a proper name for it! :icon_cheesygrin:
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Hans,
Sure, i agree again but your protecting yourself and her, by not letting emotions get too deeply rooted before meeting her. I think, you do still have to have a decent amount of trust in your lady, or your not going to get anywhere, as you say, keep it at the back of your mind somewhere, just be aware that it's there.
Your right about how each of us deals with relationship disappointments, Some will rush into the next relationship regardless, and some will be way over cautious. Somewhere in there is the happy medium, where you can grow and flourish with your new lady.....
David ......
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Yes, David, of course I need to trust her. And I do trust her. Still, I keep that thought in my head, mostly to be on my guard. In hindsight I know that when my last lady suddenly refreshed her profile, she immediately began to talk to someone else. I remember thinking it was a bit odd she refreshed her profile all of a sudden but we continued to communicate on almost a daily basis so after a while I let it go. I was easy to fool with words, apparently.
Of the two types you mentioned, I may be close to the over cautious one. :-/ I think it will get better as we move along and make more solid plans to meet... After all, doubts and fears are part of every relationship. It's a part of love.
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I don't know how I lucked out so well, but my girl has NEVER refreshed her profile. There has been some times I was unsure she was for real, but when I expressed any concerns, she immediately responded with proof. When I asked for a webcam meeting, boom, there she was, giggling and smiling like an angel. I don't know what I did to deserve this, but thank God for her.
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I don't know how I lucked out so well, but my girl has NEVER refreshed her profile. There has been some times I was unsure she was for real, but when I expressed any concerns, she immediately responded with proof. When I asked for a webcam meeting, boom, there she was, giggling and smiling like an angel. I don't know what I did to deserve this, but thank God for her.
Sounds good, Neil! We all have doubts from time to time and feel need for some kind of confirmation. It's great that your lady provided you with some proof right away, it shows she is not willing to risk anything with you. Congrats. :icon_cheesygrin:
Me and my contact/lady are moving along in slower pace but I have accepted that she is shy and doesn't want to rush. I am not pushing her and piece by piece she is giving me more and more. I have her address now and she will give me the email address to the woman who is head of the agency. I haven't asked for it but it seems she has helped my lady a lot when her parents were reluctant to let her date a foreign man. They were even photographed together. Maybe that's some kind of confirmation too, I don't know.
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And when you go to meet her unless you plan on living in china you still have all the Visa stuff to do that takes time too. All that waiting you have ahead of you, you may as well get as much done as you can..
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I forgot to mention this earlier. I was in the lawyer's office, signing the last of the paperwork and the lady says to me, "So you're really going to marry a lady in China? Why don't you marry someone here instead?" I just stared at this fat but friendly lady thinking of all the reasons and ways Chinese girls are better and how easy it would be to bash Canadian women. I ended up saying "Sure, why don't I just marry my ex wife again?"
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Good to you Niel it would have been so easy to become insulting in that situation.
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Yes, some get insulted when they find out you are going to marry a "foreigner". You may remember my story of the lady who butted into a conversation I was having. Really makes me want to date here, and my ex-wife tells me it is unnatural to marry a Chinese woman. lol
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I forgot to mention this earlier. I was in the lawyer's office, signing the last of the paperwork and the lady says to me, "So you're really going to marry a lady in China? Why don't you marry someone here instead?" I just stared at this fat but friendly lady thinking of all the reasons and ways Chinese girls are better and how easy it would be to bash Canadian women. I ended up saying "Sure, why don't I just marry my ex wife again?"
Neil, why did she even ask you that? It's non of her business! But she is certainly not the only one asking us that question. You probably did the right thing by not giving her a blunt answer. But of course you could have told her the simple truth: because Chinese women are the most beautiful creatures on Earth. :icon_cheesygrin:
I've heard these comments too and I am not even close to marriage yet. I just know that this is the path I want to follow and I've discussed it at length with a guy with whom I always discuss relations. He is just curious and is trying to understand what "the thing" about Chinese women is. Others, I believe, have given up and just think I'm crazy. I can live with that.
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There's good and bad everywhere, the good are not just based in China. You only need to read around this Forum to realise that little fact....
I was married to a perfect woman (for me) for 20 years before she passed away, and she was from my own country England. Now i have a perfect woman again, who happens to be Chinese. She's different to my ex-wife in many ways, but no more, and no less perfect.
A lot of this stuff we get on here about women from our own countries, being inferior to those in China is i think basically based on guy's going through particularly bad divorces, then stereotyping all home based women in the same category. Let's also face the fact, that the women and type of women you were attracted too in your own country, were your own choices. so you can't stack ALL the blame on to them....
I've probably lived and worked in more countries than most on this Forum, and i can tell you, there are countries in this world, that have just as good women, as they have in China. You could find your perfect woman anywhere in this world, they are diverse as us men, .....Now your not going to tell me that were all perfect, ....Are you??
If your not interested in women from your own country anymore, fine. Now your going along on your own journey to find a Chinese wife. Why do you still find the need to rubbish the women your leaving behind....
David.....
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My wife is here with me and I still get asked this same question and not all of them are polite or nice when they ask this and sometimes its in front of Zhou, we normally look at each other smile and walk away.
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I've been asked that question quite a few times even by my own children, daughters no less. Some women have been quite vicious and rude. One even suggested that I was looking for a woman I could trample over, that I was too afraid to marry a real American woman. I looked her in the eye and said, "You're right!" and walked away. The others including my daughters I said because I think it is something I need to do and thanked them for their concern. I really don't see the point in telling them because it will open a bigger can of worms. I think MM's got the best response, smile and walk away.
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There's good and bad everywhere, the good are not just based in China. You only need to read around this Forum to realise that little fact....
I was married to a perfect woman (for me) for 20 years before she passed away, and she was from my own country England. Now i have a perfect woman again, who happens to be Chinese. She's different to my ex-wife in many ways, but no more, and no less perfect.
A lot of this stuff we get on here about women from our own countries, being inferior to those in China is i think basically based on guy's going through particularly bad divorces, then stereotyping all home based women in the same category. Let's also face the fact, that the women and type of women you were attracted too in your own country, were your own choices. so you can't stack ALL the blame on to them....
I've probably lived and worked in more countries than most on this Forum, and i can tell you, there are countries in this world, that have just as good women, as they have in China. You could find your perfect woman anywhere in this world, they are diverse as us men, .....Now your not going to tell me that were all perfect, ....Are you??
If your not interested in women from your own country anymore, fine. Now your going along on your own journey to find a Chinese wife. Why do you still find the need to rubbish the women your leaving behind....
David.....
Did someone hit a nerve here? Do we all try to talk nothing but rubbish about Western women? I don't think so. OK, let´s get it over with: Yes, there are beautiful and wonderful women all over the world, of all ethnic groups, of all religions. Was that good enough?
But remember that you are on a CHINA LOVE forum for men seeking future Chinese partners, it tend to be pretty romanticizing about Chinese women. With good reason. I can only speak for myself, but I am not here to discuss the glory of Swedish, English, American or Australian women. I am here to discuss and learn more about Chinese women.
We all have our reasons for being here. Personally I have been increasingly interested in China since I first visited the country in 2005. Suddenly I have also developed a great love for Asian women that I did not have, or realized I had, before. This can't be helped, I am simply not physically attracted to Western women anymore like I used to be. It's been frustrating because there are not that many Asian women around here.
Yes, there are great women all over the world, not just in China. Of course. But if I compare the demands of Swedish women to those of Chinese women, I can see the difference. A lot of Swedish women (at least in my age) have incredible demands. I have never ever seen a young Swedish woman on a dating site saying that her dream is to find an honest, responsible husband who will treat her well. No, they will go on about sexual performance, looks and money. Again, this doesn't mean every single woman between 20 and 30 is like that. But many of them undoubtedly are.
And, if I want to live in China in the future, finding a Chinese girl to marry is a pretty logic move...
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Hans,
Agree with you almost completely in what you say here.
I was trying to point out that everyone here has decided to move on in there lives and look for a Chinese Wife. So why do they have to look back, to what there not interested in, and tar all western women with the same inappropriate brush?? Remember Hans, that includes our Mothers, our daughters, our Sisters, our deceased Wife's and any other female member of our families!!
Why not just look forward to where your going in life and enjoy it, and leave the women at home, out of it. There is a lot of this throughout the Forum Hans, not just on this thread. I for one, have a little more respect, and a far more even mind on this subject.
Your also right about the romanticizing of Chinese women here, sometimes to the point where some, almost lose the plot!! The reality is, ....some will find that perfect Chinese wife, some will think they have, and some will just fail to find that right lady for them. ...and will look elsewhere!!
David....
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Hans,
Agree with you almost completely in what you say here.
I was trying to point out that everyone here has decided to move on in there lives and look for a Chinese Wife. So why do they have to look back, to what there not interested in, and tar all western women with the same inappropriate brush?? Remember Hans, that includes our Mothers, our Sisters, our deceased Wife's and any other female member of our families!!
Why not just look forward to where your going in life and enjoy it, and leave the women at home, out of it. There is a lot of this throughout the Forum Hans, not just on this thread. I for one, have a little more respect, and a far more even mind on this subject.
Your also right about the romanticizing of Chinese women here, sometimes to the point where some, almost lose the plot!! The reality is, ....some will find that perfect Chinese wife, some will think they have, and some will just fail to find that right lady for them. ...and will look elsewhere!!
David....
I think there may be a simple reason for this kind of bashing of Western women: convincing ourselves we are doing the right thing. We all have doubts from time to time, it's a big step to marry someone with whom you can't even communcate freely at first and maybe even move to a completely different culture. Perhaps some of us need to pat ourselves on the shoulder and one way of convincing ourselves that we are in fact doing the right thing, is to remind ourselves that Western women are not for us anyway. ;) Just a tought.
I don't disrespect Western. I'm just not interested in them like I used to be. I have no great illusions about Chinese women being some kind of different species. But when Chinese women (students or tourists) walk by on the street and I almost get a whiplash injury, I think that kind of confirm my decision after all... :icon_cheesygrin:
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Hans,
That's a very sensible and mature outlook you have there Hans. It's a shame that some of the older guys haven't attained that maturity. I'm sure you'll do just fine on your journey....
Good luck all round to you....
David....
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Thanks mate, and good luck to you as well. I'm sure it'll work out for all of us in some way.
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Hans,
My luck came my way a little over 3 years ago, Been living with her the majority of that time. A year in China and the rest here in Cyprus. getting married sometime between end of september /October time here. Then back to China early next year for a ceromony for her family... some sort of blessing from i can gather. ..haha!!..... But thanks for the luck anyway, we can all do with a bit of that, at anytime in our live's!! ....lol!!!
David.....
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A year in China and the rest here in Cyprus.
Cyprus - I was over there in 1978 with the army in the UN. Beautiful island. I always wished to visit it again. First time I tried lamb was there. I love the Kebobs. How's the economy doing there?
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CRAP !! Same as everywhere else at the moment !! lol !!
David....
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Hans,
My luck came my way a little over 3 years ago, Been living with her the majority of that time. A year in China and the rest here in Cyprus. getting married sometime between end of september /October time here. Then back to China early next year for a ceromony for her family... some sort of blessing from i can gather. ..haha!!..... But thanks for the luck anyway, we can all do with a bit of that, at anytime in our live's!! ....lol!!!
David.....
Sounds great. Cyprus is very nice. But I would prefer China. ;)
Yeah, we all need some luck - also after we've been married. Seems like you have your hands full for some time now. All the best.
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CRAP !! Same as everywhere else at the moment !! lol !!
David....
Crap, then you could make a fortune in the fertilizer business. But what a stinky mess!
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Rhonald,
Crap, then you could make a fortune in the fertilizer business. But what a stinky mess!
The only stinky business i can see, is all these chairman and CE's walking away from the banks and societies that they headed, with vast person fortunes, while there banks and there companies go to the wall world wide!! A perfect lesson to all, how to f**k-up big time, and walk away taking massive bonuses, and pensions for getting and doing just about everything wrong that they could get wrong.
Makes you wonder what ''fraud'' actually means these days!!!!!
David.....
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Greetings all.
I have read through this post and others like it and wish to say something about my personal situation. Back in 1989 fresh out of the Canadian Armed Forces, I moved to Edmonton knowing no one. I picked up a newspaper and started checking out the personals.( that was how it was back then no internet dating sites.) I sent a few letters and met a couple women. The last one I met in mid april, became engaged to in early June and married on Sept 30 1989. Everyone and their dog told her we would not last six months never mind six years. That marriage lasted almost 20 years. It was a good marriage. We discussed and compromised and did everything right and yes we were in love from the start. I new she loved me before we were engaged and I loved her also.
The fly in that ointment was the inability to have kids. In 2003 we started adoption proceedings because what man would not go to great lengths for the woman he loved? In Nov 2006 we adopted a 12hour old baby girl. Everything seemed perfect. However that was also the death knell for our marriage. She wanted a child so bad that when we finally got her she transferred everything to our daughter. Her love, affection, time , everything. She even slept in the same bed with her. Those last two years became a living hell for me. I am a very romantic person... Must be the Scottish heritage in me (Born and raised in Scotland, left when I was 15). I cannot live in a relationship without love and affection. While I tried to show her my love and affection it was not welcome or wanted. We barely spoke unless it was about mundane things or our daughter.
I made the decision to move on and am now seperated waiting for the divorce to finalize so I can move on. The point of all this is that I believe some people can fall in love very quickly and have a lasting and meaniful relationship, and marriage. Even a long distance one such as we have here is possible IF both parties use their head and their heart. Heavy doses of that not so common sense are also required. Some people cannot do this and are often critical and astounded at those of us who can. I say be thankful that there is so much variety in the world and we all think differently to each other. No one is alway right and no one is always wrong. You have to go in with your eyes and heart open and as the saying goes " To thine own self be true".
So I say to those who wish to go slow and be sure and confident.... Bravo! follow your heart and mind and you cannot go wrong. To those of you who are more romantic and like me I say to you.... Bravo! follow your heart and mind and you cannot go wrong.
Remember this thought " whether you think you can or you cant...... you are right!!
Regards to all and remember this is why we come here, for the help and advice and the discussion. Most stuff here will help someone through a difficult time and that my friends is the whole point.
Brian Mc
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Thanks Brian , for sharing this unfortunate Story with us . When this baby Girl in fact should have gotten you two even closer , it has gotten out of Hand from your Wife's side of the marriage . Seems this Woman could not Love two People at the same time or devote equal time to both of you . Us being Men , we know exactly what your saying . There are Motherly duties to a Baby , but also Wifely duties to her Husband . This would have worked in NO relationship for very long . It is a shame though , this Girl could of had a wonderful Family to grow up with . Now , your Ex must change her behaviour or this Girl will grow up with no Father figure . SAD
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Brian,
No offence to you but, both the types of guys you mention can get it very wrong, those that take it slow and certain, and those that romanticize about an idea. The later i believe will stand a far, far higher chance of getting it very wrong. Yes we all have our own ways of doing things, and we will do things as we please or see fit.
Yes Brian, on your thoughts of common sense, i am completely astounded, sure there's variety in this world, but we also have to live in the real world too!!. What is your thoughts about your life experience (wisdom), are you suggesting that this also should be tossed to one side??
You say you fall in love very quickly, what are you falling in love with right now, ....a lady, ....or pictures and translated words of a lady, (may not even be your ladies words). Your at the beginning stages of your journey Brian, so use more head and less heart as you put it. The heart can be let loose when you meet her on your first trip. Because believe me, ....that's the only time your going to know if the, Passion, the Chemistry and the Compatibility is there for you both, .....your now dealing with real flesh and blood. No amount of romanticizing is going to help you there Brian.
It's only after you have met face to face so to speak, that any future between you, can be then be built on. Right now you should be communicating, finding out all the things you need to know about her, and her about you. The common attraction you have right now is just a basis of what can or could be if everything gos right for you both.
You sound like a nice guy, and it's a shame that you've been left in your present position with your family. I hope your still on friendly terms with your soon to be Ex wife, ...if only for yours daughters sake. Life really sucks at times.......
David.....
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Umm David I do not believe I said anywhere in my post that I had or might or will fall in love with anyone. I was merely pointing out that it is possible to fall quickly and have it last.Perhaps it is you who needs to come out of that little corner you sit in and see that there is a world out here bigger than your interpretation of it. Lets not forget that for centuries arranged marriages were the norm for many cultures and you must agree that many of those people must have found love. When one thinks of all the ways people meet and fall in love why is it that you feel romantics stand no chance? Is it really any better meeting someone first, having the vision in your face as it were before any words are spoken? Is it not as has been said in many of these threads that when you communicate without the distraction of the visual you get out of your own way and say what you really mean and feel. I had almost 20 years with that marriage most of them good years. How many folks who do it your way can say the same? Divorce is the greatest pandemic in the world, it can shatter homes and lives and loves. Thankfully some of us are prepared to go on a little faith when we communicate through CHnlove and give our hearts and souls and minds a new chance at a future. If you read any of the profiles from these wonderfull women you see many of them are in the same boat except one thing..... we are virtually their last and only hope for a lasting marriage and a happy life with their partner.
So I propose the following ...... we agree to disagree... you believe what you will and I will do the same but please do not ridicule or slight those who follow their heart rather than their mind. Remember as has been said Love Actually IS all around us.
Regards to all,
Brian Mc
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Well , I must say ... that is about as close as I would have put that . Thank you Brian , well said and very true . I'm also a believer to winning a Lady's Heart first , if through writing or whatever , not jumping into Bed and then ...let's see ?? Was she good enough ? Maybe , I will ... maybe I wont ... give her another chance . Wonderful way of building a foundation for a great Marriage . NO , I'll go the Romantic way , hence it worked for me . To each there own . I'm not perfect , but we won each other's Heart before seeing each other Eye to Eye . So of course I'm going to shoot down anybody saying it CAN NOT be .
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I figured I'd update again.
I got my Visa yesterday! Quite the experience in the Visa office. Me and my daughter were the only white people there for a while. The security guard laughed at me for standing in the wrong line up and laughed with me when I had to get a new number...twice. Talked to a beautiful Chinese lady, definitely a "queen bee" who examined my form, circled what I had filled in wrong or missed, but WOULD NOT smile, no matter how hard I tried. She stands behind a glass partition and talks into a mic that blasts loud enough for everyone to hear. All went well though, it took 3 hours but I was grinning the whole time. It was cool to watch and mingle with everyone. I had to make some changes on my form and didn't have a pen so asked a young man who was busy writing. He looked at me and gave me the typical "no english" shrug, but I waved my finger like I was writing and he reluctantly handed me the pen.
That's it, all my ducks are in a row. Next stop, China.
Oh, and the security guard told me I couldn't get more than a single entry for my first time, but I got a dual entry six month visa.
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You LUCKY dawg (don't want to swear lol) Neil.
Congrats Bro:icon_biggrin::icon_cheesygrin::angel:
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Brian,
Yes, i totally agree, we will definitely have to agree to disagree. As i said we are all different, and we will always do what we think is best for us. You may not of actually stated you were in love or the like, but you did "imply" that you very well might do. As for me being in my little corner, not knowing much about this world. I'm afraid that doesn't hold water. I've lived and worked in more countries in this world than i can count on two hands Brian. In fact I've spent more time overseas than i have in the UK.
Yes, arranged marriages were and still are common in certain parts of the world, sure some are going to find love, the law of logic and percentages dictate that is going to be the case. But how many of them were, or are happy and fulfilling marriages? I can't tell you how many, not so good arranged marriages I've come across in my travels, but more than enough to prove to me, that there not, and never have been the answer.
I can't see where i said that romantics, don't stand any chance Brian, sure they do. But there is still a need to use common sense in being a romantic guy, ....jumping in with both feet, without it, doesn't make you a romantic, it makes you something quite different.
Yes Brian, ...it is, and always has been better, to be in a normal face to face relationship / courtship. Apart from being aware of the commonalities, you are also aware of the differences between you both. More importantly, you have the interaction of body language between you. No I'm not talking Sex and jumping into bed. I'm talking about reading peoples facial expressions, and how the body reacts to words and actions. It's always the little personal things, that can tell you more about that person, than any amount of writing can ever achieve....
Brian i could write pages on body language, it was my compulsory choice of an unrelated subject during University. Boy, has that course paid dividends for me, over the course of my working and private life!!
On the divorce thing you mentioned, and going by the accepted statistics, of 1 in 3 marriages ending in divorce, i would have to say ...more than you would imagine. I myself had 20 yrs of a, (for me) perfect marriage before she passed away. I haven't personally known the hurt of going through a divorce, but know plenty that have. Yes it is as you say, a great pandemic across the world, even more reason to do your damnedest, to do all that you can, so that it doesn't happen to you. ...Right??
Brian, yes I've read plenty of the profiles on chnlove, I'm also aware, that some are not as wonderful as they might first seem to be, also.
I agree that those over 30/35 and or with a child, don't have much of a future in finding a Chinese husband. But please don't think that these ladies are all perfect, there not.
It's just as hard to find a good Chinese wife as it is anywhere else, hence my point of using your common sense and wisdom, in these matters. Don't get me wrong Brian, when you do find a good Chinese woman, it's like finding a pot of gold at the end of the rainbow, that's for sure!!
Now, are you saying, that's not worth waiting, a little longer for ??
I don't come on here to ridicule or slight, my posts on this matter are always to try and give awareness that things are not always as rosy as they might seem to be. I have nothing what-so-ever against anyone being a Romantic in there outlook here. ....But everyone of us needs to use there common sense too, along with what they have learnt along the way in their life. Some just need to stand back a little, ...maybe there racing, before they can walk!! Love maybe all around us, but then so is the real world, which makes it just a little more difficult to find that love....
David.....
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Every Rose has its thorns
The prudence in us pays heed to the posibilty of being cut and hurt. The Romantic in us sees the beauty of the flower. It takes a skilled gardener to nurture and care for the rose. A pinch of common sense and patience - but always heed the thorns. :heart:
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Rhonald , seeing a beautiful Flower like this Lily , by my front Door ... how can one not think that Women are much like a Flower , all different in beauty . But all you see is the outside , to get to know the " Roots " one must befriend the flower and study it carefully with Love . No wonder I am a BEE for my Lady , because a BEE knows a beautiful Flower when he see's one . Hehe
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Rhonald , seeing a beautiful Flower like this Lily , by my front Door ... how can one not think that Women are much like a Flower , all different in beauty .
My wife's name Ziyan means purple Lily so I understand the flower metaphor. This thread topic is about setbacks and difficulty. I was tired and had a nap this morning and just woke up. The first bad dream I think I had about my wife. We were in the airport clearing immigration when her son decided he did not wish to be here and just took off. I chased after him since he knows no English, and I lost him in the crowd. My wife went one way and I lost her in the crowd. I woke up feeling uncomfortable. I thought about my dream and my inability to find them. Reminds me of a patrolling exercse we were taught in the army. As we progressed further into new territory, we set new rally points if ever we were seperated. Also we learned to look back because the place would look different returning from a different direction. I will try to remeber this tip when I bring my new family to Canada, thus if seperated, they will know where to go if lost. My wife speaks a bit of English so I am not as worried, but her son doesn't.
Also when I feel distraught about my situation, I always come to this site to read and ease my burden. Thanks for your ears my fellow country men.
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I know Rhonald , the Thread is about Setback's , but to answer ones post that is slightly off the Topic , what is one to do ? Go and answer in another Forum thread away from the question or where the discussion was at that moment ? Sorry , this happen's here and there , but it can alway's be put back in it's place . By the way Ziyan is a beautiful name . See what I mean ?
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I know Rhonald , the Thread is about Setback's , but to answer ones post that is slightly off the Topic , what is one to do ? Go and answer in another Forum thread away from the question or where the discussion was at that moment ? Sorry , this happen's here and there , but it can alway's be put back in it's place . By the way Ziyan is a beautiful name . See what I mean ?
Sorry Arnold,my coment was not a critique, just my own discourse before going off course. Actually I was reflecting backwards and I guess resetting my own rally point since I did feel disorientated from my dream. Hum... orient is part of that word. I guess i was just reorienting my compass to find true north, which for me allows me to find my true :heart:
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Rhonald ,, I did not take it as such . I just felt guilty for doing just that what we try not to do .... wonder off course with somebody's thread . I think you dream did mean , that your Wife and her Son are alway's on your Mind and your subconscious Mind is afraid off loosing them in a crowd , which most likely means in the paperwork and Visa progress .As I have had dreams of a little Girl standing by my Bed one night , that it woke me out of my sleep . I took that as a sign , that has been on Qing's and my Mind , for some time now . Having a Child together , and after that dream , we ( at least I ) knew it would be a Girl , so we picked a name already for that happening . ( Angelia Nancy ) . Now let's see if we can make that dream come true ? Hehe or should it be ...Oh..Oh :huh: