China Romance
General Discussion and Useful Links => Newbies Corner => Topic started by: joeswuhandream on January 09, 2010, 05:56:03 pm
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hello to everyone, i have been monitoring this forum a long while
can the moderators anser this question ?
why is china-love such a big click seems to me that you have a very happy situation, any outsider seems to not made welcome by eveyones attitude ?
and to many of you pretend to no so much about very little
about china of course( china mike shark) was shown the door
and he as more input than any one of you on the forum
and you banned him what can i say ? click click the truth can hurt at times
i would like to be involved with this forum and i do have experiances to share , but if you mods have a click maybe i am in the wrong place ,it will be interresting to no what you mods have to say i would ask you to go back to march 2009 to look at the posts and this shout section thats why i think you have a click
i trust you will not ban me for voicing my opinion
in i think a constructive way
please feel to send me a private message
ohhhh what a rush the lion is after you
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Hi Joe,
I'm not sure what you are talking about (but I'm not a moderator either). I joined this site after the China Mike thing happened, but as I understand it, China Mike threatened someone with physical violence... I don't know him (I have seen him in the original forums and I have read some of his posts here), but if he threatened another member of either forum, I could understand why he should be banned.
As for who has more info, regardless of who has it (China Mike or any of the guys here), I'd advise you to take any advice given and think about it first. Mike might be living in China, but several of the members here are living there as well. Neither's advice is invalid, just it might not apply to you.
Finally, I don't see anyone not being cast as an outsider. Sure, there are a few "spammers" joining that have been banned. And a few people get a little heated with their discussions and opinions, but everyone is usually given a chance. I (personally) would love to hear more success stories from anyone who has gotten married with someone from there and I'm sure others would as well.
One thing to note about both forums, this one isn't necessarily filtered (except for spam messages). The other forum (the "official one") is.
Just some thoughts.
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Joe,
I'm sure there are a lot more people here that know a lot more about China than you do.
Nothings perfect in this world, and this Forum is still Young, it's still feeling it's way. But it is trying, and it has helped ...and is still helping a good few guys on there sometimes difficult journey's in finding a good Chinese wife!!
If all you can see here is the Negative, then perhaps it's not really the place you would be happy!!
David....
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Seems to me, outsiders that are not welcome are ones that are overly aggressive or accusative. Not exactly a good start for you to say "many of us pretend to know so much about very little". We're here to make friends and help each other out. Makes me wonder why you want to be involved with this forum. What do you have to gain with that type of attitude and what do we have to gain from it?
We're a big"Clique (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/clique?jss=0)" (two points for spelling) because we have a common interest and goals.
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Joe. I don't know if I qualify as a Mod or not. However, i will try to address your concerns. First off, welcome.
Since you have some interest in Michael Seal, lets discus him for a moment. Michael had been with our group from the beginning days. He always had something to say, and sometimes it was constructive, while other times it was not. But he was always a welcome member of this group, whether or not he agreed with the "status quo".
We had a new member join who claimed to be a translator for an agency. What this person had to say was a farce. Most of us recognized it for what it was. However, Michael took it to the next level, and suggested he would stop in to pay this person a visit at their work place.
Before a member is banned, the mods must have a vote to decide if this is the best course of action. Any one mod can not permanently ban someone because they are not part of the "clique". Given the severity of the situation, a vote was taken. I can tell you that not all mods voted to ban him. However, a majority voted to have him removed from our group. This is why he was banned.
Michael has useful information, I will agree. But he is not the end all and be all of knowledge when it comes to China. Many members here have a lot more personal experience than he did. Take for example, David 5o, Willy The Londoner, ttwjr32, Maxx, and others. I am not saying Michael did not know what he was talking about...he certainly knows a thing or two as well.
You are welcome in this forum. All people are welcome, provided they follow the rules of the forum. I do not feel the mods have formed any sort of clique. Some of us are friends, and have known each other for over a year. We have shared personal information with each other, and have gotten close with each other. I do not think that this makes us an exclusive clique. In fact, I would like you to point out why you think this of the mods specifically.
Many friendships have been forged on this site. Many people have provided information on this site. We don't always agree with one another, but this does not mean someone will get banned. Only a few people have actually banned from this site for not following the rules of the forum.
I would suggest that before you come onto a free site and insult the people that are trying to keep it operating smoothly, you should do some more research, and not just use Michael Seal as your source of research, and consider all of his writings to all be factual.
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Well Joe, I will try to answer the few questions you asked.
1) We know so little of China?
This would then mean you know more then all here? So why not educate us instead?
2) China Shark, and he as more input than any one of you on the forum?
Well that's your opinion. For someone that has been "monitoring this forum" to say something like this is beyond me. He's been talking to himself at the other forum, so if you want to talk to only the wizard? Follow the yellow brick road. But pay no attention to the man behind the curtain.
We don't and never have banned anyone expressing an opinion. You say you want to be involved with this forum and yet you are starting off insulting people?
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In July 2009, I was one of the "newbies" or outsiders as you put it.
I had a number of disasters regarding Chinese Women and CHNLove..(the official one).
I kept quiet for a while and read and read and read everything here...including the posts from Mike the Shark.
Then I went away and made up my own mind about what I was going to believe, what I was going to do next based on the advice I got.....and then I entered the forum with posts of my own.
Not everyone agrees with my point of view...and I dont always agree with theirs. I have had some fairly tense times with some folk here...but NEVER in public, we have sorted it all out via PM's.
To come to this Forum is a personal decision, its not all Gospel, its not all relevant...but it is ALL given from guys who want to share their experience and want to help.
I cannot possibly imagine why anyone should think the Mods here have a clique.........the banned members all earned it !!! but provided you "more or less" stick to the rules you get no interference from them.
Your input and anybody else's is more than welcome by me, and I am sure by all the other bros.
Maybe you know heaps more than any of us about China and Chinese Women...then why not take a chance and share it with us. If you dont like the results...you can always say goodbye !!
DavidE
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i would like to be involved with this forum and i do have experiances to share , but if you mods have a click maybe i am in the wrong place ,it will be interresting to no what you mods have to say i would ask you to go back to march 2009 to look at the posts and this shout section thats why i think you have a click
Hello Joe!
You can look a little further back to the facebook days and see even more! Myself, I have learned what was shared by these very same guys. I would also like to learn what you have, so please share!:icon_biggrin:
I noticed your name as "joeswuhandream", do you have experience with this city? Did you find your pot of gold there? I have met several "gold-diggers" from there...perhaps you were lucky and found something better?
I also get much heat here for posting stuff here that many don't like to read and the mods haven't banned me. I'm not even apart of neil's clique...he hates me! All my information comes from the worst possible sources you can find...women that live in China! One I'm living with now in Changsha...many of these guys will argue with me about this cuz they know more than the women that live here!!! Butt thats ok...this is what makes a forum, a forum!!!
On a side note... Martin you are qualified to be a mod here...you been to China, you have married a lady here and you were a part of the original facebook forum...don't underestimate yourself!:icon_cheesygrin:
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I intend to make no comment on this thread other than I have just spent ten minutes on the OTHER forum, have not been on their for ages, and it only took that long because I read some older messages.
We are now into 10th day of this year. I noted that on that place there have been just 12 postings made in that time and some of the categories had not had a posting since September 2009. I made two postings just to cheer things up a bit!
I know where I would rather be.
Willy
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Joe
i really am insulted with what you said here. all of us here talk and post opinions
and i dont see any one of us claiming to be experts at it. nor do i see were one
individual seems to claim he is the one who knows it all. China Shark seemed to feel
that way and really wasnt open to constructive opinions. he seemed to think he was
an expert about asia after living here for 6 months before he was banned and he did
have time in asia in 1992 for a year. ive talked to him since the ban and it was always
whining about certain people here and how they dont appreciate his opinion but should
because he is living here. keep in mind Mr. JoesWuhand dream that we all here try and
voice our opinions based on our lifes experiences to help other forum members. to claim
to be an expert is really just what some people who really dont have an open mind and
think that they know it all seem to do and i dont see that here. Hell i have been living in China
for 45 months out of the last 60 months and i am learning new things and i keep an open
mind when i talk with other members. And i have learned many new things here from those
members. so lets think and read before we post such a one sided opinion of all of us here.
from your CHINGLISH Mr. Joeswuhan dream you sound like your chinese and we would welcome
your experiences if you were to share them with us in a positive manner. i guess its up to you
if you want to share with us your thoughts.
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Oppressed Group Behavior:
From Middle Kingdom Life, home of the highly-acclaimed Foreign Teachers' Guide to Living and Working in China..
Lateral Aggression
The main characteristic of oppressed groups is that members often exhibit self-hatred and dislike for other members of their own group. An absence of respect for one’s own group often results in a desire not to be associated with it This characteristic is particularly apropos in understanding and explaining—what I refer to as—”lateral aggression” among foreign English teachers in China and it is one that is readily apparent among many Westerners who are working in China as foreign oral English teachers. Consider the following recent interaction between two members of an Internet forum for foreign teachers in China:
Member A: I spend almost NO time with westerners if I can help it, and I take the bus and the pedicab when I can.
Member B (to Member A): Just sending you my thanks…
Member A: Quite welcome, dude. In your case, I’ll make it a promise..
Another very common form of aggression can be observed when those who have been in China for awhile boast of all the “high-level” government officials they have at their personal disposal. Such foreigners claim to be personally exempt from whatever usual inconveniences are faced by other foreign teachers and how they are the sole Western beneficiaries of special favors or privileges in their particular city or even province. The intent, obviously, is to aggressively or competitively show how they are more valued by the dominant group than any other member of their own group is. Every time I am in earshot of such pronouncements, I am reminded of scenes from Alex Haley’s book Roots in which he described how the slaves used to compete with each other over whose master had the more successful farm or biggest crops. Common sense dictates that no high-level government official in China is going to squander his guanxi, which is more valuable than money here, helping out some foreigner who is thought of (quite accurately in most cases) as just a transient worker.
When I read this I was quite struck by the similarities to what Mike has been posting recently.
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Thank you guys for your replies .
I do take on board what you have said ,
but I think you guys miss interpreted what I was saying but never mind life is to short
I shall move on
I am over in china in Feb. and I hope I shall post my experiences and thoughts on my stay
in Changsha , I shall be there from the 9th/feb--28th/feb I have climbed the mountain for my pot off gold and yes it as taken me a very long time in china to find what I have been looking for
in fact it as been 10yrs lots of time spent in this beautiful country
so just maybe I can pass on some very good insight about my experiences
but for now I shall I say thank you to all who responded to my post
the lion sleeps tonight Joe
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Joe,
I will be here in Changsha through Feb...you can send me a PM...if ya like to meet up I will be happy to buy you a beer! :icon_biggrin:
Jim
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So Joesph (manchester, United Kingdom), I just read a reply to a post of Maxx's on the chnlove forum. Should I quote you or do you want to say the real reason you posted here? Oh by the way it's not "China Mike Shark". I suggest you reread Mike's last post on Jan 7, #43 on which he is talking bad about Maxx. You took it upon yourself to defend Mike by making comments to Maxx. Now you came here to continue it. Maxx's reply was justified by Mike's post. Maybe you shouldn't stick your face into other peoples business and mind your own.
Reading that reply you don't have the comprehension of what your reading. Before you defend your hero I suggest you know what your defending.
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Vince 1.. Lion 0... :icon_cheesygrin::icon_cheesygrin:
David
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i read that also Vince do you think maybe this is mike talking?
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That being said, I don't think we need to bring that argument here. Lets leave it where it belongs.
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i agree with that enough of beating this dead horse
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Mikes god complex still going on? He needs to get a new song.
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when i grow up i want to be like mikey sorrry i could not resist
the thread over there is getting to be rediculous
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Ok, so i have just spent the last hour or so reading the thread on the other site, maybe i don't know all the facts and am missing a lot. I think both sides are a little out of order with things that were said, but it just seems to be like being back at school with 'he said this' and 'he said that'. I mean does it really matter who was right and who was wrong? In the great scheme of things with what is going on in the world, do we really need these kind of squabbles with each other? Take a Valium, smoke a refer, do what ever you need to do to relax and just move on....:icon_cheesygrin:
Andy....
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good grief. mods, close this thread.
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Neil
Maybe we should ask the Mods to leave this run for a while....???
We seem to be always getting into the "Mike the Shark" debate, for one reason or another.......maybe its time to do it all to death and hope it never comes back again.
It is obvious that for certain people here, their sensitivity over the issues wont go away. So it will probably come back in another disguise sometime in the future.
Joe has made some serious allegations about the "clique" that he perceives to exist here...and maybe this was a conspiracy driven by Mike and others to undermine our method of operation on this Forum.....maybe not........maybe it is all about puffed up egos ?
But we can certainly see that there are people with agendas that badly want this debate so they can sound off about their own personal grievances.
Willy has got it right, Vince has got it right...why should we be running scared if some "less than credible" folk want to sound off...dilligaf !!!!!
or should it be dwllwgaf !!!!
Lets stand up and be counted...lets nail this rubbish for once and for all...if we offend some tender egos...so be it.
Everybody who posts here has a right to be heard...but not an undisputed right to be believed....you gotta earn that !!!
Provided it dont get personal and abusive...difficult for some, I know...then it might clear the air.
Whaddya think ???
David
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Personally, I think the thread here and on the thread on the other site should be shut down. The posts on the other site are not shining examples for how adults to behave. Let's try to nip it in the bud and move on...
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It's all good with me.If you guys want to keep discussing this it doesn't bother me.I will leave the thread open.
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I'm in the middle. One part of me says enough close it down... and another part says let it play out. Lets hear all the crap and then bury it.
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Boys, Boys, Boys....This is getting redicules, all this arguing over nothing. I have not been to china or any other country like the rest of you (except viet-nam, mexico and canada). This whole thing is not only getting out of hand, but starting to sound like a bunch of kids.
Martin if you close this it won't hurt my feelings.
I have gotten to know pretty much all of you through your writings, comments and wit. I like each and every one of you, no matter who you are or your points of view. I think everyone has a right to have a say about somthing. I love the humor here and you all have your moments...To that I say thanks, you keep me cheered up when I'm feeling low and no matter how bad the situation is, I can always come here to get cheered up and back on my feet.
There is no need to down talk or trash anyone on here. We kid a lot with each other but its all in fun and I don't think anyone takes it seriosly. So please lets quit fighting or I'm a gonna have to take you all to the woodshed and cut a switch. It could be worse as you all could be living in Hatie right now...
I appreciate all the help here no matter who gives it, but in the end, no matter how much you tell a kid that the fire is hot, he will stick his finger in to see himself. So we can expound all we want about this and that and it won't make much difference, they will find out on their own.
And finally, no two women are the same, therefor any advice on one woman may not apply to the other, you just have to find out on your
own. So you boys go and play nice, if you can't....turn off the computer and go to bed !!!
This has been an old farts rant... now go take a sheep from petty cash and go have fun....:icon_cheesygrin:
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Rocky
Youre exactly right...all this hot air over nothing....thats what most of us think...yes ?
So we read it all and "ho hum " !!!!!!
But maybe the little people want to get it off their chest and bleat away until they get tired of it...especially if nobody "bites".
Indifference and contempt...two powerful weapons against pompous, ego driven children.
So...if they want to play "I've got a bigger one than you ".......let them go ahead ??
David
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Some people Ted just cannot let go.
I am not advocating all should be forgotten, but it should be in where it was done...IN THE PAST.
One thing I also noticed about Mikes posts' he is enflaming Maxx and others, and you guys are answering him...LET IT GO, let him rant on, who is listening???
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I must say , I like Mike and I like Maxx as equal Friends ... but what I have read on the Official ... embarrasses even me , knowing the two . As a Mod , I still feel .. let this all pass as and have both of them be REAL Men and apologize to each other and welcome him back onto our Forum . This has really been childish as I and many other see it , so let's get on and not deprive other's the knowledge that Mike has to offer on finding a Teaching Job and not add more Fuel to the Fire .
Well , this is how I feel anyway .
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thats a good idea Arnold and see were it will
lead after that, maybe everything will be fine
the second time around
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Yes Ted ,
you know ... now that I've been back and have my Wife here with me , it really makes me feel like a Child myself ... for not seeing Mike in Shenzhen when I was there in Sept. ... why ? Because it would have made me look like a Traitor in the Forum's Eyes . Well , I don't care anymore . I think , why waste a Friendship over some heated arguement I was not really involved in ? Now I have to live with this , not having met him , when I had the chance to do so .
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I don't know why I'm contributing to this but what the heck.
Arnold your statement about being worried what the forum would think makes it look like there is a clique here. Honestly to me since I've been here a very short amount of time I can see it a little bit. There are several who only talk to each other. I am looking at this with eyes on the outside. I have seen and I have had a thread where NO ONE said a thing if I remember right, and there was no reply from the regulars here. I can honestly say that if you took my thread and attached another's name to it then it would get responded to. You might not like what I wrote, but it is what I see. Do I care? Hell no. I've lived too long at this point, and have too much going on in my life to have the time and energy to care. The information is useful to me. That's why I'm here, and also to help those that don't have the opportunities that I do to travel to China. I put well over 100k flight miles to there last year, and I'm leaving Tuesday again to go there. Could I get into pissing matches. You bet I could, but I choose my battles, and this is not the site/issue that I care to go at it with.
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Ted the second time around.Try about the fourth time around.We have welcomed this guy back on numerous occasions.Each time it goes ok.For about a week.Then Michael has a bad day.And he starts arguments with other members.Then the mods are running all over the boards trying to stop a international incident.
Michael was banned from the face book forum for doing the same thing.Not once but twice.I'm just the victim of his latest rant.And yes I encourage Michael I don't have to post to him.But he does keep asking for it.And it is very childish of me.I will admit.I have no excuse it is just for my amusement.I have not posted to his latest rant against me.And at this point and time.I have no plans to.It is not as nearly as amusing as it was at one time
If your interested Michael rants that got him booted from face book.One was with another mod.After Michael called the other mod and myself racist.Michael then accused me and the other mod of hacking his computer.And threatened to beat me up the next time I came to China.We banned that mod for the handling of that situations and a few other situations.And we gave Michael a month off the forums I think.to give him a chance to cool off.
The second time Michael got banned from face book.Michael went after another member.Who posted a opinion.On his own topic.Michael went after this new member so hard and made such derogatory comments..That the guy never posted again on face book.And he didn't follow us over.To the new forum.Because of the things Michael posted to him.I apologised to the member for Michael behavior.I Told the member it would never happen again.It shook the member up enough he never posted again.
Arnold is a good guy.He has one of the biggest hearts of anybody that Ive ever seen.Arnold forgets the hate and mayhem.People like Michael create on any forum.As far as I'm concerned Michael just needs to stay where he is at.And Arnold can still have the big heart.That suites him so well.
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It takes a bigger man to allow ego to bruise than to stroke it... :angel:
Maxx good idea to keep thread open! I am with Arnold on this one...I never took sides or posted such here or on facebook forum...closing thread is like closing the mind(many do this here...refusing to hear things that will mess with infatuations)! Joe was wondering(maybe took sides) and posted such here! A good and open forum will allow this to stay open...everybody has good imput that we ALL can learn from!
Those that want this thread closed should take a good look in the mirror...perhaps it's time to open thy mind(especially those living in infatuations)!!!! :icon_biggrin:
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This will be an issue until it is resolved. Maxx I think you should offer an olive branch of peace to Mike. Does he deserve it? No, but neither do you but someone needs to man up and put and end to it. As a moderator and one of the respected leaders here it would show others on this site that you are above all that now and as you say, it does not bother you one way or the other.
You do not have to invite him back. If you did it would appear to him as an admission of guilt. We don't need to go there with this. Keep him banned, I do not think allowing him to come back at this point would help anything at all.
I do not dislike Maxx or Mike. They are both fine to me but I wish all of this would go away. But again, it will not go away until it is resolved. Maxx, you know Mike wont do it.
Shaun
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I don't know why I'm contributing to this but what the heck.
Arnold your statement about being worried what the forum would think makes it look like there is a clique here. Honestly to me since I've been here a very short amount of time I can see it a little bit. There are several who only talk to each other. I am looking at this with eyes on the outside. I have seen and I have had a thread where NO ONE said a thing if I remember right, and there was no reply from the regulars here. I can honestly say that if you took my thread and attached another's name to it then it would get responded to.
Jeff
Thats a bit of a distorted view of how things are here !!
You suggest that there are no replies to your thread because it was YOU posting...what possible vendetta could I or anybody have against you ???...I have read all your posts, and if I thought I was complelled to make a reply, then I would do so. I welcome input from anywhere...I dont have to respond to it.
There are many members who only read the posts and do not ever make a contribution.........what is wrong with that ??
It is not compulsory to reply to every post here...and sometimes I think a lot of posts get "over-replied".....give me quality over quantity any time.
I have asked for assistance on a specific question sometimes and received no replies. I expect that nobody was interested in my post (my problem...I should have made it more interesting !!)...or nobody felt they had an answer to the problem.
Either way, it does not detract from the philosophy here.
It is not useful or productive to go on about conspiracy theories, because they just sow seeds of discontent.
If you have all this China experience, I and many others are waiting with bated breath for you to share them with us. I may learn something useful, I may not. I may choose to respond to your post...I may not. That surely should be my choice ??
To put something into this Forum should not be on the basis of what you get back...
DavidE
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I can only speak for myself. I read every post. If I feel I have an answer or can help then I post. Sometimes the question isn't for me. Mostly in the visa category. Lets say the question is how long does it take? If anything I can only write what I have read before and so I leave that question to the more experienced. So for me it has nothing to do with an interest, just the right answer.
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I don't know why I'm contributing to this but what the heck.
Arnold your statement about being worried what the forum would think makes it look like there is a clique here. Honestly to me since I've been here a very short amount of time I can see it a little bit. There are several who only talk to each other. I am looking at this with eyes on the outside. I have seen and I have had a thread where NO ONE said a thing if I remember right, and there was no reply from the regulars here. I can honestly say that if you took my thread and attached another's name to it then it would get responded to.
Jeff
Thats a bit of a distorted view of how things are here !!
You suggest that there are no replies to your thread because it was YOU posting...what possible vendetta could I or anybody have against you ???...I have read all your posts, and if I thought I was complelled to make a reply, then I would do so. I welcome input from anywhere...I dont have to respond to it.
There are many members who only read the posts and do not ever make a contribution.........what is wrong with that ??
It is not compulsory to reply to every post here...and sometimes I think a lot of posts get "over-replied".....give me quality over quantity any time.
I have asked for assistance on a specific question sometimes and received no replies. I expect that nobody was interested in my post (my problem...I should have made it more interesting !!)...or nobody felt they had an answer to the problem.
Either way, it does not detract from the philosophy here.
It is not useful or productive to go on about conspiracy theories, because they just sow seeds of discontent.
If you have all this China experience, I and many others are waiting with bated breath for you to share them with us. I may learn something useful, I may not. I may choose to respond to your post...I may not. That surely should be my choice ??
To put something into this Forum should not be on the basis of what you get back...
DavidE
Whatever. It is how I see it. Take it for what it's worth.
I'm not going to get into a pissing match with you.
Have a nice day.
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Arnold your statement about being worried what the forum would think makes it look like there is a clique here. Honestly to me since I've been here a very short amount of time I can see it a little bit. There are several who only talk to each other. I am looking at this with eyes on the outside. I have seen and I have had a thread where NO ONE said a thing if I remember right, and there was no reply from the regulars here. I can honestly say that if you took my thread and attached another's name to it then it would get responded to. You might not like what I wrote, but it is what I see. Do I care?
Jeff
You don't care? You sound like it matters a whole lot.
It's part of life to realise that in some circles of people you will be really popular, and in others, you will be not so popular.
I have people here I really admire, and I count as friends. But the fact of the matter is, I am a father of a teenage daughter, I have responsibilities for my work, family and friends. I do not have the time to read every post. So as a result of the way I live my life, I do not always have time to to participate in life here, and so I suppose I am not as popular as some of the others, and I don't find this a problem.
I have always felt welcome here when I visit from time to time. I have never felt that there was a clique here.
Danny
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Whatever. It is how I see it. Take it for what it's worth.
I'm not going to get into a pissing match with you.
Have a nice day.
I did indeed take your post for what it is worth......four fifths of five eigths of sweet nothing.
Why would I want to get into a pissing contest.?????? I just come here to learn and to help when I can, I dont have any other agenda. You make serious allegations and then dismiss any further debate by walking away with the miffs.
There is no need to take this attitude.........why dont you post some stuff of interest to us about your experience with China and Chinese Ladies instead of just talking about it.
DavidE
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The clique thing?
Come on guys. It is like anything else. If you want to have a relationship with others you have to stick around and continue to comment until others get to know you. To thing you can make one or two comments and then the site should stop and listen is absurd. You have an over inflated ego of yourself. Those of us who are regular contributors started the same way you are starting. New to the site, you do not know anyone and the people here do not know you. You keep commenting and asking questions until one day people begin to notice you are here.
Most of us say welcome to the new people to this site, that is your invitation. It was a good 3 months before I felt I was really a part of this community. I would start a thread and get very few comments. Then one day people here started asking questions of me? Then I noticed that someone have me a positive rating. But it is like almost every group of people in the world. It is up to you to become a part of the group. It is not up to us to drag you in. You are the one who has to find value in being here. We have already found the value.
If it were any other way this would be just another superficial group of people. Who needs that. I know this sounds kind of harsh but it is reality where ever you go.
It is not our job to conform to new people. Our only job is to welcome them. They need to do the rest.
Shaun
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A clique? Your half right. We all belong to a clique. But here's the half we don't belong to.
a group of people, with shared interests or other features in common, who spend time together and do not readily allow others to join them.
We belong to: With shared interests or other features in common.
We don't spend ALL our time together, we do have the women.
Don't readily allow others to join them, Not True. Anyone can join in as long as you are within the rules. If your a scammer your outof here. But that's because we're not here to take advantage of each other.
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I have thought long and hard of many times posting about the dispute.
Maxx I find you have a great wealth of information and wisdom to share. I know it amuses you to post on that official site's thread but I wish you would stop - it belittles you. That one posting Post: #250 you recently gave on Shaun's thread shows your true potential. I bet Shaun can attest that it stung but the wisdom was also potent. That is what we need you for.
I have only face-to-face meet two members of this form: Martin & China Shark. I enjoyed my visits with the both of them. I meet Michael first and I can say his in person personality is in direct contrast to his blog personality. He shed some light on one of my own problems so I know he has knowledge and I thank him for it. He also asked me a few times what my wife thought of him. I am NO psychologist but I do see a dualism in him that has led to the his many verbal duels.
Arnold, when I went back in October for my wedding I was also undecided on contacting him. I was trying to get Chong and his girlfriend Sunny (now wife) to attend the wedding as my guests. I knew Chong and Michael has exchanged angry words. Once I knew Chong could not attend I thought of contacting Michael. I also delayed because I felt it would look bad here. But after returning and finally reading the thread on the official site I am happy I never did invite him.
Now part of the Michael posting below below might reflect badly on Martin but I think it needs to be seen because the second part and also, the second posting reflects my opinion on never wishing Michael to be allowed back.
Posted: 08 Nov, 2009 14:01:53 # 17
Also, Martin I'de refrain from divulging things of a personal nature regarding Josh's current girlfriend. See it is very easy to pay very little money to investigate anyone in China including your wife.
this post was directed at Maxx
Posted: 27 Nov, 2009 16:56:43 # 29
If you ever show your face in Shenzhen you must visit Musibase {rock and roll club} so I can aquaint you with my Nanshan Triad bosses friends of mine.
For a man who claims to never threaten physical harm I see a man that has indirectly threatened a member's wife. I see a man that claims to hang out with organised criminals.
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Rhonald true enough.As I stated earlier.I'm done messing with Michael.After a while all the amusement was gone for me .So there was no point in continueing.
Michael wasn't learning anything and it was making me look bad.Because I would fire back at him.
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Mike is all talk. The problem is he doesn't know when to shutup. I guarantee this, if I went and met with his Nanshan Triad bosses friends? They would be kicking his ass before I left. :icon_cool:
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Like I posteed earlier guys...Let it go, nothing is worth all this crap
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this has given me some insight to everything that
has happened here between members.
i personally think Mike is just full of hot air and with
people like that its best to ignore and let them ramble
for a while till they give up because no one is paying
attention.
Rob- it is hard for some though because when you are
threatened or a loved one is threatened then that
is something that will never be forgotten nor should
it be forgiven. if someone threatened me or especially
threatened my wife then that is an issue and i would
have a problem with that person all the time. no need
for that
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Ted I truly understand where your coming from...but this is not about being threatenend or loved ones being threatened, all this kicked off long before that. All that I can see is each of them is inflaming the other by their derogitory comments towards one another. Both of them have given me sound advice and been helpful to NOT ONLY myself but to others on here ALSO, I thank them for it.
I cannot ever seeing them meeting up so why keep it going. Maxx I'm sorry but this is the way i feel about it, but as has been said, your BIGGER than that. I was one of the people who wanted Mike back, but he brought it on himself...AT THE END OF THE DAY, WHEN YOU JOIN SOMETHING, NO MATTER WHAT IT IS, YOU HAVE TO ABIDE BY THE RULES
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Maxx
I read pretty much all the back and forth on the other site.
Mike's from Philly. What do you expect? He's a street guy who talks. Usually the ones who talk openly what they are gonna do never do it. It’s the people who you KNOW they know those people but stay quiet. They can be the dangerous ones. The talkers have indicted themselves publicly, so unless they want to be someone’s girlfriend in prison then nothing happens most of the time. They would have to be stupid to carry anything out and they know it. I’ve had contact with these East coast guys in the past. Same stuff. Also I remember in a thread on the other site you mentioned steroids. I been around guys I knew for a long time, and it’s amazing how aggressive they can be when you know they are not normally like that. Dude is roidin in my opinion. I have noticed over time it seems that the women who are with him end up leaving. Wonder if there is a connection regarding the aggression. That would scare the h*** out of a Chinese woman. Usually those guys dig their own grave, so it’s best to let it play out. And one last thing I’ve got to say if I’ve heard it once I’ve heard it a thousand times how long he has lived there and living his dream. The thing is, the new guys over there think he’s the shit, and they have no idea the whole story.
Now I’m gonna give you some advice Maxx haha. He baited you and you bit many times. Quit taking the bait.
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Ok, I have read enough. Maxx has a right to defend himself from a hot air filled self proclaimed know it all. While Mike may have a lot of knowledge, he has stated many wrong things. I personally know some of them. He has to pound his own chest because not too many people will do it for him. I have been around not as long as Mike, but quite a while, going back to the beginning facebook days. I can tell you this. He has been banned, he is not coming back and that is the end of it. People will believe whatever they want to. Those of us here know what this site is about. No matter if there is a clique or not. (There isnt) Many, many men here have benefited by this site. Its history will attest to that. I think it is ridiculous that this has even come up again. i can see Mike laughing at this. This is exactly what he wants. To be the center of attention. Maxx, I personally hope you just close this thread. There is no reason for it. Six friggin pages is ENOUGH. There is no reason for it to ever come up again.
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i agree lets get this closed for now
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I think it is ridiculous that this has even come up again. i can see Mike laughing at this. This is exactly what he wants. To be the center of attention. Maxx, I personally hope you just close this thread. There is no reason for it. Six friggin pages is ENOUGH. There is no reason for it to ever come up again.
Sarge...while I agree with what you are saying, I think this thread needs to be left open. I say we talk this Michael Seal issue to death, so that it is out of our systems. This way hopefully, if a new person attempts to bring up the issue again in the future, we can point them over to this thread, and leave it at that.
Sometimes, it is through debates like this, that bring us closer together as a group, because it allows for more understanding of each other. Just a thought I had anyways.
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Ok that does it, I'm going out back and cut a switch.
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Get'em Don.
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sorry guys....
I must back Martin's opinion 120%
We can bury this baby once and for all...do it to death and never need to come back to this same old grind ever again !!!!
Our combined opinion seems to say that we all regard it as a great big non-event...so when all the players are tired of the same rubbish, and the Mike advocates realise that there is no more mileage to be squeezed out of this tank of petrol...then it will all go away for good and for ever :icon_cheesygrin::icon_cheesygrin:
After all...reading the thread is not mandatory..it is optional !!!
David
Rocky...go ahead and cut your switch...I will be waiting with my Browning Hi-Power (hahahahaha)
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ok now that i have given it thought maybe it is best
to let this run its course.
i do have a question though several of you mentioned
steriods. do you think they would be easy for a westerner
to get in china???
and why someone would use that junk after all it eats at
your brain and you become impotent from it. nice downside
now tell me what is the upside??? besides being an idiot???
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That's not a switch, this is a switch... :s ("Crocodile Dundee")
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yes that was funny Vince in the movie
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Who cares about former members of this forum? We have had a couple of new brothers join and they need our help!!!
Cut that switch Rocky.
:fi_lone_ranger:
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and why someone would use that junk after all it eats at
your brain and you become impotent from it. nice downside
now tell me what is the upside??? besides being an idiot???
There was a co-worker who had a hair perm and she had an alergic reaction to it. Her face swelled up. She was given a steriod to conteract the alergic reaction. Steriods have their place, but they have to be used wisely just like any drug.
Anabolic steriods are dangerous if used unwisely. Injection steriods greater affect but also greater side affects. Oral steriods less effect and less side afect. Anabolic steriods for Pre teens and teens and women play havoic with their endocrone system so are a terrible mix.
Now I met China Shark and from my opinion - I doubt he uses them. His frame was just too small. Being said - people who think that taking steriods will make them look like Arnold are just fooling themselves. You first need great genetic potential and steriods can not fix that.
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You first need great genetic potential and steriods can not fix that.
Thank goodness I have great genetic potential! My beer belly will look fantastic on steroids!!!!
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me to Martin maybe it will spread out my beer belly
and i will look great hahahaha
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me to Martin maybe it will spread out my beer belly
and i will look great hahahaha
I can't see my beer belly under all this fat. But no doubt is looks great:icon_cheesygrin:
Willy
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me to Martin maybe it will spread out my beer belly
and i will look great hahahaha
I can't see my beer belly under all this fat. But no doubt is looks great:icon_cheesygrin:
Willy
Willy, what you have is an insulated beer belly.
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this thread has definatly gone where no one wanted it to.Next you guys will betalking about your gout.
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Gee Maxx,
the least you can to is to not offer new disgusting subjects. We have squat toilets, beer bellies and now gout.
Tisk, Tisk!!!
Hey, I've got a subject. How do the Chinese treat bunions?
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you have to admit we do get creative answers sometimes
in all the threads
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I do not have any agenda or presonal grievances to sound off about on this issue, and I am not one of the "little people" who wants to get anything off my chest, that DavidE refers to in his post. However, Like Andy (Wilsbrough) I spent about an hour reading every word of the verbal fracas that took place on Chnlove's official site and I was truly appalled and disgusted by it.
For the record, I do not know Mike Sealey, in fact I believe he was banned before I joined this Forum. However, I have read some of his posts, as they continued to be posted after he was banned, and I found some of them to be interesting and informative. I also found some of them to be extremely self-opinionated and aggressive; I absorbed what I considered to be constructive and positive and disregarded the rest.
The fracas that occurred on the other site, however, is a different matter altogether and raises questions of another nature. In this respect, in my opinion, Maxx's contribution was quite disgraceful, whereas Vince and the others who took part conducted themselves with restraint and civility. Yes, Maxx is perfectly entitled to defend himself, but I thought he went well beyond the bounds of decency with his accusations of steroids, drugs and insinuations of female abuse and abortion, and any number of other things. Maxx refers to this as baiting; the Oxford English Dictionary (OED) describes baiting as "to torment with jeers" and that is precisely what Maxx was doing - he was tormenting Mike Sealey and this showed in Mike Sealley's response, which was just as disgraceful as Maxx's comments. The point of this is, is it acceptable for moderators, who are, as I understand it, the representatives, or perceived representatives, of this Forum (and if I'm wrong I'm sure members will rush to correct me) to go on to another Forum and behave in this manner? I imagine that if I behaved in such a way on the other site, that was so unbecoming and demeaning of this Forum, that I would be banned.
I do not take issue with the fact that moderators from this Forum went on to Chnlove's official Forum to challenge what Mike Sealey was posting there as it undoubtedly required challenging, but in a proper and constructive manner; not with taunts and jeers and unexplained allegations. In fact the more restrained and constructive contribution of Vince, and other moderators, proved Mike Sealey's perceived hurt, that the moderators had voted unanimously to ban him from this Forum, to be false and wrongly held. That was a notable moment when Mike Sealey had to draw a deep breath and admit he was wrong. In my opinion, that is how those sort of disagreements are best dealt with - you say what you have to say, in a proper, decent and meaningful manner and then depart and leave others to form their own conclusions about the veracity of what you have said. And there were others on that site who were coming to their own conclusion and were posting that they were not interested in what Mike Sealey was saying.
This affair also raises another question regarding members who are banned from this Forum - I don't mean the trojan horses and plants etc, I trust the moderators completely in dealing with them, or those who are banned for short terms for rule violations - I am thinking of those who are banned for long periods of time, perhaps even for life; is there any appeal available to them? Surely, this is a democratic Forum, and in the governance of most such bodies or groups there is an appeals procedure that grants the right to appeal what may be seen as more draconian actions. That way there would be no argument about whether or not someone was wrongly banned or had a perceived idea that they were. If it doesn't have an appeal process, perhaps this Forum could set up an appeal panel consisting of, say for example, 3 (or any number of) members with high reputations. It may never be called in to service but it would serve its purpose by being there, and may help to prevent a future occurrence of what took place on Chnlove's Forum. I merely offer this as something to be thought about and accepted or rejected as members may think fit.
Lastly, it should be kept in mind that the confrontation with Mike Sealey took place on Chnlove's official Forum - and how Chnlove must have loved it! I can see them reading every insult, allegation and threat with glee - and looking forward to the next complaint from this Forum about agency scammers, or whatever, and dismissively tossing it in to the wastepaper basket.
The moral being: the more credibility and decorum we conduct ourselves with, the more credibility and respect we earn.
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The story behind the screens: Back when the Facebook forum started (I was #13) is when I met Mike. I extended my help to him when he thought one of the mods (I wasn't one) deleted his profile? or something like that? The profile thing might of been the second time? I think he had a virus first? It's hard to remember because there was another old buddy Max on the forum, Pink horror and a few other names later on Facebook. But I tried helping to find the problem there were also I think two others that this happen to. Mike came in blasting accusing everyone in the forum when in fact it was the Facebook people themselves. They deleted any fake named profiles. Through emails I got him calmed down and explained what happen. This was after emailing Facebook techs and other mucky-mucks.
Mike and I had things in common. We both came from the street. He from Phily, me from NY and picked ourselves up and got educated. Saying street doesn't mean you lived on the street but you were street wise, you learned from the streets. It's a city expression. It's just that I had it under control where he didn't.
Ever since then in and off the forum, I was baby sitting him. Calming him down with anything somebody wrote. When he would email me the story was the same... just like the posts he had, I'm living and teaching in China.... in every email. When he did email me he always asked for a favor and I would do it for him. But when I emailed him? I never got a reply unless he needed something (a month later).
At time of banning, I had PM'd him not to respond as I knew he would. I wanted to get more info on this person first (long story). So instead he emailed or PM'd the person and threatened with bodily harm. He was banned for a short time to have him cool down and realize what he did. Then he went and posted on the Chnlove forum making all these statements on all of us. That was the last straw. Oh yeah lets not leave out the 2 or 3 emails he didn't reply to. Then a while later he did email me a month or so later. It opened with (basically) Hi Vince how are you? Hows Song doing, Your a #%*&# *&*(&! Q&*&$_&*()@*!, I wouldn't even put it here. Of course I replied in his native language. What he said was do it his way or we're not friends? Well sorry, that's not what friends do as far as I'm concerned. That was the end for me. To curse at me as he did after all I did for him and without even a thought of what he said to me? Na! Times up, strike 3.
As for some sort of appeal? MAYBE Mike could come back if he controlled his angry rants? Any others that were banned I wouldn't even consider letting them back. They were banned for very good reasons. Never has any regular guy stating an opinion been banned, only real trouble makers that disrupted the forum.
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Vince,
it sounds as though there was a lot of tolerance were this subject is concerned
and i agree with you guys if someone threatens someone then no need to have
them on the forum nor allow them to come back. getting mad and calling someone
a ####### is 1 thing but to threaten them is totally uncalled for and should be
handled with banning just my 2 cents worth
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Vince,
it sounds as though there was a lot of tolerance were this subject is concerned
and i agree with you guys if someone threatens someone then no need to have
them on the forum nor allow them to come back. getting mad and calling someone
a ####### is 1 thing but to threaten them is totally uncalled for and should be
handled with banning
This wasn't the first time either....
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Johnboy,
Excellent post. Thank you. I agree with you 100%
Shaun
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It's hard to remember because there was another old buddy Max on the forum, Pink horror and a few other names later on Facebook. But I tried helping to find the problem there were also I think two others that this happen to.
Vince,
Whatever happened to Max/Pink Horror/Alex Janerus(this was his last facebook name)? We had some mutual aquaintances in Wuhan and I know he had a girlfriend there, but haven't seen him on facebook or here...just curious.....
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Biggie no idea after he got banned on facebook.I seen he was posting on the official.For about a month.Then he stopped posting there.He did start his own group on facebook.But it was a real exclusive group.You had to be invited to Join the forum.Last time I looked it had four members.I don't know if the group is still active.
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Yeah multi name kind of disappeared off the radar all together. I haven't seen him even posting the official forum either. He lived only 10 miles from me and yet he gave a hard time to meet for coffee or whatever? Could never figure that out? He's a real Floridian, they're anti-social.
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He's a real Floridian, they're anti-social.
I thought that was to prevent cavities :huh:
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pretty exclusive with just 4 members
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Ted the group is still there.They have 5 members.
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the 5 must have lots to talk about between them for
just having 5 members is it about china?