China Romance
General Discussion and Useful Links => Ask An Experienced Member => Topic started by: Sylvain D on March 26, 2010, 11:23:07 am
-
Hi there, brothers :)
I would like some comments and some help if possible.
About marrying with Liyan, she says me that she is getting each year dividends in China.
But if she marries in China, then she will lose those dividends.
So, she says me that she wants to not register marriage in China (should it mean that we won't marry in china, so?)
And that I have to check about registering marriage in France... because she wants to continue to get dividends in China, even after being married...
But will she be able to keep those dividends if she marries only in France or no way ?
-
Sylvain D,
I think she means that each year she gets X amount of money from the government that goes towards her final retirement package.... also depending on her Job she may also be getting some kind of medical insurance etc....
All this stops, when and if she marries a foreigner Sly. Which is why we intended not to marry in China. Basically the government steals all this money from these women that marry foreigners, even if they choose to live in China.
For a young woman, your Liyan has her head screwed on well... All it means really, is that the actual marriage has to take place outside of China, it doesn't mean you can't have a wedding reception in China.
David......
-
Thanks for your reply, David ;)
So, I should understand the best is to not marry in China, but marrying in France, and so, Liyan could still keep getting dividends each year from the chinese government, right?
Or will it still end, even if the marriage is outside china?
Because of that sentence, in fact :
"All this stops, when and if she marries a foreigner Sly"
And, if we anyway marry outside China, how can the chinese govt know if she still can have dividends or not?
Anyway, for sure, we can have a wedding reception in China :)
-
Thanks for your reply, David ;)
So, I should understand the best is to not marry in China, but marrying in France, and so, Liyan could still keep getting dividends each year from the chinese government, right?
Or will it still end, even if the marriage is outside china?
Because of that sentence, in fact :
"All this stops, when and if she marries a foreigner Sly"
And, if we anyway marry outside China, how can the chinese govt know if she still can have dividends or not?
Anyway, for sure, we can have a wedding reception in China :)
Sly,
What the government don't know can't hurt them or her ...lol!!
Just means that when dealing with anything to do with the Chinese government, you never divulge that your married..... For example, she will remain single for evermore on her passport. haha!!
David.......
-
OK, so, the best thing to do is :
- marrying in France.
- having a wedding reception in China & France
and so, Liyan can go on earning dividends each year from the chinese govt.
But about the passport :huh:
before getting married, her passport will show "single". but when we'll marry, will she have to do again her passport or not, in fact?
Sorry to ask so many questions... :icon_confused:
I'd just like to do everything right :blush:
-
Sly,
No, .....She will remain Single as far as anything to do with Official Chinese government departments.... Only if she becomes a French/EU citizen will she have a passport stating ''Married'' and it won't be a Chinese Passport. That passport will always be stating her as single.
Oh, ....and never divulge that Liyan has become an EU Citizen either, the same thing will happen, all her Chinese privileges will be taken away. ....And she will also have to apply for a visit visa to enter her own country too!!!
All this sounds complicated, ....It's not, it's very simple. Whenever she has to renew her passport, she just sends it as normal to the Chinese embassy for renewal, just never divulging that she is married. There are no restrictions to Chinese Nationals living and working overseas, So this shouldn't present any problems. Lucy renewed her passport here last December.... no problems whatsoever, took just 3 days too!! hahaha!!
David.....
-
Realistically, how big a deal will it be for her to get a visa in the future? Will be just a formality as it is for us oner assumes, and having Chinese relatives it will be a one year multiple entry one at that.
The real cost would be more emotional at giving up Chinese citizenship i expect.
-
Ronan,
The real cost, is loseing the rights of a Chinese Citizen just for marrying a foreigner!!!
Theft is the right word for it!!!.....
So why lose anything, when you don't have too??
David...
-
Ok, I better understand.
Many thanks for your help and advices, David ;)
-
ok i have a question on this? what is she applying for to go to france??
a fiance visa??
if so is france like the usa only a certain amount of time to get it done
and be married or you have to leave the country.
Sly if i were you i would get the advice of an attorney were you live because they
are better versed on these matters.
at some point and time i would think that it would all catch up (paperwork) and it
will be discovered she is married by china. they just cant leave china on a temp
visa and never be heard from again and then 20 years later apply for their govt
money from the chinese govt. then the questions will come up about were she has been
also you have to work in china to get a pension as the company you work for does pay
towards that and so do the workers to an extent. you just dont obtain a govt pension
because you have lived in china all your life.
GET AN OPINION FROM A LEGAL REPRESENTATIVE IN YOUR COUNTRY
before you set any plans in motion
-
Ted,
It doesn't matter what type of visa she gets for entering France, It has nothing to do with the Chinese Authorities, once the passport has been issued!! The visa, (of whatever type) is issued by the French embassy.
Liyan will get whatever has been paid into her retirement pension, ''it's NOT lost''. So if she stops working in China for a few years, then go's back (maybe Sly and Liyan will move back to China to live and work in the future) and starts paying into her pension credits again, they too will go towards her final retirement pension payout.
They don't apply for the government pension, it kicks in automatically when you reach the official government retirement age. Many women continue working past retirement age in China, (sometimes they may have to change companies/jobs ...especially government jobs) but they still continue to draw there pension monies....
Believe me Ted, i've gone into this matter with a fine tooth comb, there is no paper catch-up, only if your fool enough to let it be known your married to a foreigner, to any of the Chinese authorities, then they will automatically stop all further payments....
David....
-
Ted, I understand your comment, and I'm a little bit thinking the same.
I think that Liyan should apply for a fiance visa or maybe a turist one, at first? and I'm looking for how to do the papers, the best way I can.
by the way, I will try to see if I can see an attorney, maybe yes, it would be better to do all in a "regular way".
-
Sly, she needs a fiancee Visa in order to have the paperwork to get married in France ... and to have enough time. It will take longer and there is an interview with a consulate officer to check if your marriage intentions are for real.
It will be hard to get a tourist Visa of more than 2 weeks for her, better to start the fiancee visa, and then you are sure you have all the paperwork to get married in your hometown, check the requirements with your mairie.
It will take 3-6 months from what I read on Bonjourchine, there are some testimonials there. It's not the easiest route but well worth it for your lady's benefits.
Lyan will lose her rights in China if she takes on French nationality, the procedure somehow notifies the Chinese government, my ex tried to hide her French nationality from Chinese authorities, but when she tried to renew her passport, they grabbed it and it was never seen again. She now needs a visa to travel to China :icon_cheesygrin:
Lyan can stay in France as long as she likes, she will first get a 1 or 5 year residents card, then a 10 year one I think.
I'm getting my 20 year card next week, but then I'm not Chinese :icon_cheesygrin: yet :icon_cheesygrin::icon_cheesygrin:
-
Frank, in fact, I don't see anything related to "fiancee visa" in www.bonjourchine.com in fact :s
and that's a little bit "scaring" me.
Because today, I could talk to Liyan on QQ, and the "problem" now is that one :
In July, she'd like to come in France, just one week....
But on that week, she wishes us to marry in France. So that all would be very good for each of us.
Otherwise, her dad would be like "upset" and would worry more and more, because he'd think that we can't marry... so... he may could be able to say a final "no" if Liyan and me can't marry quick...
I've registered on "bonjourchine.com" and I have asked how to do exactly in the french process, and if time could be with me to do everything good about Liyan and to marry on July, if she can stay only 1 week... I'm still waiting some answers / tips / comments there.
Tomorrow, I will need to go to the hometown and to have more informations about all that... I just hope all could be ok...
I've also heard that because of french laws, I may would need any paper about my parents (like some bills of electricity, family books and so on....)
:s
-
Yes it's complicated ... at least for July you have plenty of time to get her paperwork together. You should get some good input on Bonjourchine . You'll see that the tourist Visa is not without hassle, although France does not seem to be too bad.
Check with the Maire because if he is not nice, he can block your marriage just like that.
-
Yes it's complicated ... at least for July you have plenty of time to get her paperwork together. You should get some good input on Bonjourchine . You'll see that the tourist Visa is not without hassle, although France does not seem to be too bad.
Check with the Maire because if he is not nice, he can block your marriage just like that.
Frank, just to confirm, but, to you, fiancee visa = tourist visa :huh:
I'm just asking because I'm still looking for fiancee visa but I don't see anything related to that on bonjourchine.com
Anyway, tomorrow, I hope to have some more details and news about all that is required, because for sure, if Liyan can come in July one week and if we can marry on that week, that just would be GREAT ^^
But related to the "bans" (where man can read in his hometown that wedding will be celebrated), I hope we won't have to "use" it, because it must last at least 10 days :s and if so, we then could marry on the 11th...
Frank, you know, I envy you to be able to marry in china...^^
please bring me back some dumplings ^^ (i know you may need some money, but as life is cheaper over there.... :icon_cheesygrin: )
-
Sly,
It seems you are being reluctantly pushed into a corner, with all these obscure deadlines about when you should marry and where. There are ''no Real'' deadlines, so stop jumping through the loops trying to achieve what's not realistically possible!! ...Just exactly what is the rush??
Sly, stand-up to this sort of pressure, Tell her that if she's wants to be married in France, you will arrange the visa to accommodate her wish, but it's not going to happen as quickly as she is expecting. ....Like China, France has rules too!!
One other thing, ...Once you have been excepted by the parents (and it seems that you have been) They rarely change their mind, and especially over something as trivial, as what you have mentioned above. So go through the motions of getting her a visa to enter France methordically, and get everything you need in a package together, in order for you to get married in France.... Rush things, and you could screw the whole thing up!!!
David....
-
Sylvain,
Why not have the best of both worlds?
Marriage in China is just a civil service, if she wants a church wedding in France why not do that afterwards? France is a Schengen country so it should be a mere formality to bring her over to France after the service in the registry office/police station in China..
-
ok.
i'm back from town hall.. and some good and "bad" news...
Good ones : ok for wedding in July, and documents are not "hard" to fulfill.
And wedding is ok...
But...
The town hall MUST meet Liyan one month before, because of ceremony, music, arrangements and many other things, plus, a few other documents to fulfill...
Now, I have written to Liyan, saying all the town hall told to me, and that she would need a longtime visa to come in France.
Actually, I know that Liyan may could not have "one month holiday" to come in France and to stay with me, just to go to the town hall and to make everything ok, and then, one month later, we can marry.
And I think that having one filght in June for one week, just to go to the town hall to fulfill some papers and to meet the mayor, then, going back in China, and coming one month later, just for wedding... that would be lot of money to be spent.....
So.... I need talking more with Liyan about it, and to "make" her understanding that we are launching the process for wedding in France, so that she can say it to her parents, and they can see we really want to marry this year, as soon as possible.
I clearly understand that she wants to marry quickly with me. That's also what I want. To live with her everyday. And give her happy life & love.
Irishman, Liyan doesn't want to marry in China, because if so, then she would lose her dividends from chinese govt each year. That's why she wants to marry in France.
And when I told her recently that maybe "later", she could lose it anyway, she replied "don't worry about it"...
She also told me she needed to talk to someone who had 2 nationalities and that maybe she could do the same...
-
Uh???
Liyan just wrote me back, she says she can't apply for any passport until I send her an invitation letter...
And from what she told me, on the invitation letter, I MUST write her passport number :huh:
Anyone heard about it ?
-
Sly,
NOT SO, .... Anyone can apply for a passport in China, they just go to the Police station and ask for the passport application form. When she has filled the form in and has all the relevant documentation, they take it all back to the main area police station and submit for there passport. Depending on everything being in order, they will receive their passport within 7 to 10 days, ...It's a very quick turn-around in China...lol!!!
David....
-
Ok, thanks for the quick reply, as "always" in fact, David ;)
-
Yes wrong information, my fiancée is getting her passport end of the week (2 weeks for her), nothing particular was required for that.
The letter of invitation is usually for a business visa ... maybe she is confused about passport and visa, this happened a bit to me, maybe passport translates as visa?
-
Frank, I don't know either :)
I just know Liyan will ask again tomorrow about her passport to be applied, but I suppose she will need her hukou to get it.
The town hall said me it was ready to help and that anyway, they needed to see Liyan twice. Or maybe that Liyan could only one time, then, she would need to go to the French Consulate in Gz, to have many questions asked and so on....
tomorrow at morning, I'll go to town hall again to ask about that, because this morning, another woman told me that we could not do that...
-
Sly,
there is no such thing as dual citizenship in China its one or the other
-
Hi evryone well i think this thread is very interesting ,
as i am to be married in changsha in august
i put this question to my future wife ,
i asked when you arrive in England, will your pension be protected as
I-:E frozen till she retires , as we will not return to live in changsha till i retire in 13 rys time , and she tolde me
that she will loose her pension completely , she wont get a penny
which of course is of concern to me and my future wife ,
as a footnote she works for the government .
i would be interest to get everyones views on this matter
as she and me are only working class people you can understand our concerns , i have not replied as yet because i got her email around I hr ago and as this as got me hot under the collor, i am taking the 24 hrs rule so guys what do you think ???
regards joe :icon_mad:
-
Well.
On another forum (french one), a chinese woman said me that she is married with a french man, and they married in China.
She still gets dividends each year, has a card for hospital and pharmarcy, and has no problem since 6 years.
Actually, they live in France, and the chinese woman says that her card for hospital and pharmacy is useless...
Some other members also say the same, they don't understand why a chinese woman would lose that if she marries in China....
Maybe some of the brotherhood here, who are married in china and live in US, Canada or anywhere else could also confirm?
-
Sly,
As Ted said, there is no dual Citizenship in China. I can assure you that this Chinese lady you spoke to will not get any benefits back in China if she married in China to a Foreign National!!
It is obvious that she is unaware of the rules in her country, and many are !!! The Government will steel any dividends that she might have accrued, and that is a FACT!!
The only Pension they will still be entitled too is any PRIVATE pension they may be paying in too.....
David......
-
in Guangzhou or i should say Guangdong Province if the lady doesnt surrender her house book
or i should say city citizen book then she will and can recieve her pension if she marries a westerner.
Its something that is only here in GZ and maybe a few other cities but i am not sure. We have 3 people
in our family here that 2 live in the USA and 1 lives in Canada and they all get their retirement put into
their chinese bank each month. one thing they were asked when they were leaving was that :do you want
to give up your house book; they of course said no. GZ seems to have quite a few different policies or rules
than other cities in regards to some matters. teachers here also need a special certificate from the city govt
to be able to teach which is really just checking your credentials. like my brother in law said as he works for this
branch when i get my permanent residence card and buy a house we should still keep Sisi's house so she can keep
her city citizen card and book. so we will have mom and dad move into it and let them stay there for free and get
them closer to us. it also depends on the classification the lady has in her book as from what i know there are 3
classifications that can be put in there with only the first one entitling her to benefits. but for the most part many
or i should say far to many do lose there retirement if they marry and or move out of china
-
Ted,
This is the very first time i've heard of anything like this.....
I have a couple of questions here. ....1) A couple get a hukou when they marry, If they then divorce the man will normally hold onto that hukou, so very few women will have a hukou to give up!! 2) If the Woman getting married is single or have never been married, she also has no hukou to give up, she will still be under her parents hukou. So how do the GZ authorities get around these couple of situations??
David....
-
David,
it is based on what their classification is on their house book. there are 3 types of classifications which i dont remember
except for the last one which i thought was strange for this day and age. (peasant) which means from the country side.
they cannot become a city citizen here because of that. they can work here but thats all. it helps factories to employ people
at sub par wages and conditions and the other jobs are not opened up to them nor are they available to them. some even do
go on to college but still cannot obtain many of the benefits and jobs that others can. a little of an imbalance here and the
govt has changed some of it but i only know of GZ that is doing this. seems like a lot of the reforms on policies get to be only
in selective areas and not in the country as a whole as would be in other countries. anyway thought i would bring this up for
those members who have ladies in this area as they might not be aware of it.
Ted
-
My future wife and I are wondering whether she should continue to contribute to her retirement fund, but from what I understand by now, she will lose it once we are married, this obviously happening in a couple of weeks in China ... I'll ask her to check out the situation, she is a city citizen, I wonder what other rights and advantages she will lose...
All the same, the retirement is not a humongous amount, her mom gets it and well, my impression is that she's not that well off financially although she's not starving either ... she did give me red envelope, I was quite surprised, especially since I'm divorced. I'm not being asked to give a red envelope for the marriage as of yet, but you never know, this could still happen :angel:
The retirement amount seems to vary greatly with the level of career. My ex gf's parents both worked, one as a quality engineer, the other as a factory director with up to 20,000 workers ... party members of course, they got to keep their apartment which was provided with the job, and they are quite comfortable, even by Western standards, 50" plasma TV ... nice and modern apartment ...
oh, post number 555 hehe
-
Frank and all those concerned:
there are two classification on their house book when they are born. it is based on what both
or one parent is classified as. they are city citizens when born but this classification is what is
most important.
CITY CITIZEN
1---- occupation-- (office or worker
2----- peasant
now GZ has changed it so that if your classification is peasant you can still get retirement if you work
15 years or more.
but the catch to that is did the company pay the govt each and every year for your being able to get
your retirement. a lot of companies dont do this as it takes from what they make so one needs to check
to see if your company did this for you as you worked. if they didnt then you wont get your retirement.
now if you marry as long as you dont surrender your book to them or if you get a citizenship in another
country then you will lose it as China does not honor dual citizenships. so if she has a retirement just dont
have her apply for citizenship in your country and all is well. they can live their without it like in the USA
not sure about other countries
-
Guy's , here is some Info from my Wife .
You know she married me in China . Now she say's , it has NOTHING????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
?
???????????????????????????????????????????????
????????????????????????????????????????????????You can stop and continue again , as long as you meet the fifteen year total requirement .
????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
-
Arnold I got tjhe first part.But what does the rest of it say.
-
Maxx , this answers Sly's ( Liyan's ) worry about marrying in China .. which she wont do because she thinks she will loose her retirement money from the Gov. if they find out she married a Foreigner which is not so .
1 through 3 are a must to receive anything from the chinese Gov. when retireing . Qing can collect even if she is here with me , as long as she has her chinese passport .
-
Ted, but Liyan want to apply to be french citizen, so, I should understand she will lose her dividends, right?
But when reading Arnold, If we marry in China, then she can't lose anything? Even if she did not work 15 years?
-
The way i read this is that she will lose her pension right if she gives up her Chinese passpoert. She will need to give that up to get a French Citizenship and French pssport.
Maybe I am reading it wrong,
Willy
-
oh, ok then, thx Willy for making that more clear for me ;)
-
That's right , she can NOT give up her Chinese Passport , but she needs to pay for at least 15 year's into this Account .. if she want's to receive anything at all .
-
I went into this while we were still in China, and in depth!! Unless things have changed drastically in the last 2 years or so, It is as i have previously stated.
So all i can say to you all, is wait till she comes to retirement age, and see what happens!!!!!
David....
-
Or maybe get a lawyer and find out for sure? Just a thought.
-
each provincial govt is different and yes there have been changes made at some levels.
my information was based on my brother in law who works there as an official and it is
solely for guangdong province ONLY. so have your lady check into that were she lives.
Arnold is correct and as i have said AS long as she doesnt give up her chinese passport
and citizenship to become a citizen of another country and continues to pay into it.
my wife is different as her company pays into her retirement for her,so she doesnt and she
gets a statement of what was paid into it every year.