China Romance
General Discussion and Useful Links => Ask An Experienced Member => Topic started by: brett on April 02, 2010, 01:47:18 pm
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Hi all,
Has anyone here had much success with the ladies who speak little or no English? Or is it better to keep to those with "Fair" or above (not that it really means much as it's all a bit random really!)
I know a bit of Mandarin now, but once I've talked about food, the weather, my family and have told my lady the time I'm all out of material :icon_cheesygrin:.
Thanks :icon_cool:!
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Brett,
learn some more mandarin sorry i could not resist that. i have experience on a daily basis
with trying to talk with ladies who have no english and during that time i find or feel it would
be difficult in a relationship but i dont think an issue that cant be overcome. at least your learning
chinese as i am but i do find it a little difficult. cant seem to retian everything. an open mind and lots
of patience will be needed for this. if you have the chemistry then everything else will work out
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I do :) but then again I speak fluent mandarin.
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In 7 visits to meet different women in China, I never had any real problem with communication....but we did not attempt to discuss the rise and fall of the Roman Empire, or detailed debates on Unified Economic Theory :icon_cheesygrin::icon_cheesygrin:
All these women were "learning" or had "fair" as per their profiles...all these women had almost zero English. I dont think for one moment that the profile english standard has any meaning as far as conversation goes !!!...."fair" means she knows about 10 words,..."learning" means she knows two words and maybe if you are lucky she will learn more so as to converse with you !!!
I had a good quality hand-held translator and a full Professional Translation programme (Transwiz) on my lap-top. So for all normal purposes, we communicated well enough...along with hand signals, a few Chinese words and lots of body language !!
Ming and I first met on QQ in mid-November 2009, her English was poor. At this time now, after daily sessions on QQ for nearly 5 months, as well as the 3 weeks we were together in person, her english has improved out of sight, we can hold a reasonably good conversation in "Chinglish".
Even so, the ability to discuss "in-depth" issues is still limited, and will be for a long time yet. Only after a couple of years "total immersion" will she be able to begin to discuss and debate about conceptual issues, not only day-to-day stuff.
It is very unlikely that you will meet a Chinese woman who already has the ability to converse in conceptual terms...unlikely, but not impossible.
(but I have met many Western Women in the past who have limited vocal ability.......usually they only know a few words of english such as "alimony", " Foreign holidays", "diamonds" and "Ferrari" !!! plus of course..."not tonight dear, I have got a headache ,( which is taught to western women at birth ):icon_cheesygrin::icon_cheesygrin:
Aquisition of language skills is part of your journey together with your Chinese lovely, she already has the most impressive basics of character and looks !!! It is part of the responsibility you have to her, to be patient and supportive with communication and not to expect miracles of intense conversation on any subject for some time.
If you want to immediately have a ready made, fluent english speaker, with whom you can discuss anything at all, in depth.......stay with Western Women...if you dare take that risk !!!!!!
David
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Brett,
If your reading "fair" with profiles on chnlove, forget it. They are learning like all the profiles that say "learning". I go to a ToastMasters club here in Changsha, on Thursdays, and even the good speaking Chinese people have difficulty understanding. The larger cities like Shanghai, they will be able to understand you much better due to the "western influence". If it's your intent in finding a lady that speaks good or better English, find sites that offer instant webcam. This way will be better clearcut for you!
At the ToastMasters Club's, here in China, most of the people are trying to keep their English, as they only speak to people daily in Mandarin. There are also ToastMaster Clubs that practice many other languages! ToastMasters has a website too www.toastmasters.org I know the lady that's current president of the English club here in Changsha...she's 29, single and very beautiful! :icon_cheesygrin:
By-the-way...my wife and I have a successful marriage and she spoke about as many English words, when we first talked, as I speak Mandarin today. She does take English class and speaks better English than the women that have "fair" listed on their profiles! Her advantage is me being here, her English is picking up quickly with daily practice!
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My wife had no English when we met. Now she gives a perfect rendition of 'Wotcha mate, ows its going. Long time no see. Ok see yur latar'
One thing for sure it will be a good few years before we can have any arguments!!!
Willy
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I can just picture her yelling and screaming in Chinese and Willy standing with a silly grin imagining she's singing his praises. Ignorance is bliss.
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Well Brett, it seems you can speak more mandarin as I could when I met my wife. Here english was limited to about five words. But never the less. We married after I had been in China for 2 days and she is living by my side today. Her english has improved, my mandarin too. But it is a long way for us to talk real issues. After 6 month together we can do basic talks. It might be different from person to person. Everybody has its own pace of learning.
In a few weeks my wife will start at school to learn Danish. Then I expect to improve things over the next year. Until then we stick to Google's translation sevice on the Internet. In my experience it can be very demanding the first few month, until you know each other better. But with patience on both sides, it worked out.
If you find the right lady, it works out. But how can you tell it is the right one? Close your eyes and listen to your heart. Thats all I can say. I hope it helps.
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My lady doesn't speak much English either. She can speak a few simple sentences so we mostly communicate in Chinese. If we stick together in the future, she will have to learn more, though. I've studied Mandarin for over a year now but it feels like I've just scratched the surface. The best way to learn a new language is to use it every day in different situations and I have no way of doing that in Sweden right now.
At first it was frustrating because all we had was Chnlove. Now we rarely use their translation service anymore, I've used it once since January and it was when I needed to write to her about visa and passport issues, which I could not write clearly in Chinese.
Yes, the discussion become pretty shallow. When I visited her in December/January we talked a lot every day but it was mostly about every day issues, the weather, food, and things going on around us. I think we were so happy to just be together at that point that we didn't feel the need for deeper conversation. We don't have any deeper conversations in Chinese now either, although I made an attempt to discuss sex with her recently. She was not very comfortable with it, but at least she replied and we can go from there.
To be perfectly honest: If I could do it all over again I would probably not use Chnlove and I would look for a lady with at least basic English knowledge. It is after all to make things much more complicated to have a girlfriend who doesn't speak basic English. But now it is what it is and each and every one of us in this situation has to make do with it the best we can. I think most of us believe it is worth the effort in the end. It is after all a kind of journey we're doing. And to be honest, the toughest bit is not the language barrier. It's the geographical distance...
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Thanks guys, there's some interesting stuff here.
I know some basic Mandarin but I'm not sure I would ever become that good. Memorising characters is my strong point and I think I could memorise a few thousand if I had more time.
I will say though, that I live in a pretty scummy area and if you go to my local Tescos there aren't many locals that can speak more than 5 words of English lol :icon_cheesygrin:. I think foreigners are better at speaking English than we are - in my Chinese class there is a German guy and he was amazing us with his knowledge of public school English the other day, stuff like "how are you, old bean?" :icon_cheesygrin:
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Brett,
''I think foreigners are better at speaking English than we are''
Speak for yourself, don't tar everyone in the UK with your own lack of English and grammar!!
David....
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i think Brett meant that foreigners learn english a lot better than what we
do learning chinese. in other words they speak it a lot more clearly than we
speak chinese clearly. but then again i do think chinese is a little herder because
of the 4 tones which is what i seem to make mistakes on when i am speaking
just my thought on the post
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Ted,
No, i don't think so. He was insinuating that those that live in Essex can't speak English correctly, because he thinks there below him or uneducated. He's made similar remarks before about where he lives. So i just turned the table on him, seeing as he lives there himself!!
He is impressed by all the superficial things in life, that blinds him to just how the real world really works...
David....
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David....LOL....:angel::icon_cheesygrin::icon_cheesygrin:
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Rob,
Plus the fact, ... that's where i had lived from childhood, so he's labeling me too!! ....NOT!!
I know the Uni there personally, and where i have taken supplementary professional courses.
David....
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everyone needs to relax here. people are entitled to draw their
own conclusions from their lifes experiences. it does not mean
that they are attacking anyone directly just making assumptions
based on what they see and or hear.
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Well you will feel at home here Brett. I saw one large Tesco in Guangzhou and Ted tells me another is opening soon. Not many people speak more than 5 words of English here but not sure I would call it a scummy area though. But of course you call it as the want takes you.
As for the Queens English you have not heard it spoken like my wife 'Wotcha mate. Owsit goin. long time no see. Ok see yu latar"
But don't get her onto Teds old company name. Ted told her he wants her to say his old company details in English next time we meet up. She has great problems with the word 'Vanco' and most of you can probably imagine what she goes around the house saying in place of it!!! Sometimes I hear her saying it aloud and I go running to her. Silly me!!!!!! She was not calling me at all!!!!!
Willy
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sorry Willy didnt mean to cause a problem for you. Vanco was a small oil company
that was owned by a family out of Holland that did a little over 1 million a day in
revenue and i had the pleasure of managing that company for them for 9 years
until they sold it to a major oil company for tremendous profits for the family but
it was the best time of my life. so i have a ton of stuff with that logo on it.
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Greetings brothers,
Brett, about the ladies who dont speak English let me say this.... just because she doesnt speak the same language as you doesnt mean you should not consider her. I am sure most of you know my story with Zhen but just for the newer guys heres a brief bit of catch up. I came to live in china at the end of october 2009. At that time my mandarin was almost non existant and Zhen's english about the same. We have lived together here in Wuhu since then and my mandarin is still terrible but slowly improving as is her english.
We rarely ever resort to our besta translator as it actually causes more confusion than it solves and we talk to each other every day. It is quite possible to talk with each other and communicate with each other for all the normal day to day things, Zhen and I are doing it every day.
Yes some things are difficult but we use english, mandarin, chinglish, body language, signs, gestures, and good old intuition. People comment that we have a connection and we just understand each other and I believe this is also true.
We go shopping walking and all the things people do everyday and never use the translator. We discuss our marriage where we will live school her friends etc and no translator.
I think if you both are willing to communicate then the language is not an insurrmountable obstacle, but rather a learning opportunity and a chance to spent quality time together. Yes it can be tough sometimes but it is no where near as difficult as many think it is.
So for all the guys who think "learning " means you wont be able to communicate, just find the right woman and the language will work itself out. Is it hard? Of course it is. However if you wanted easy you would be looking for a wife in your home city not half way around the world.
Someone once said if something is easy its not worth having. Well let me tell you having a Chinese wive is so much more than worth having. Is it worth the pain, heartache, misery, tears, anger, frustration, and of course expense? You bet it is. Is it for everyone? Hell no!! If you are unable to find the fortitude to work through the language problem how will you work through the culture problem? Or when your wife comes to your country and is utterly lost? Or you have marital problems because its all so difficult?
There is so much in this process that will make you pull your hair out in frustration. Luckily for me I am already bald so no problems there. Seriously though if you are unable to deal with the language problem then this is not for you. It will likely be a problem for the rest of your married life to a chinese or any foreign woman so best sit down and really analyze whether you can deal with this for the rest of your life. If you cant then stay at home and find a western wife.
Now before anyone gets upset when I say "you" I dont mean Brett specifically I mean you as in the reader of the post. This applies to all of us not just the new guys but also the guys living with their wife etc etc. We all see it first hand. You who are just starting the journey are in for a wild ride. Just make sure you have the mindset before you start it to finish it.
I here many stories from chinese women about foreigners who say one thing and do another. many of them have been hurt more than once. So guys please make sure you can do what you say you can and can see this process through. If you cannot commit to it then get out now.
Anyway this is probably more preaching than most folks want to hear so I will shut up now, hopefully before I offended someone.
Take care brothers and remember if a thing is worth doing its worth doing it right.
Zhen and Brian
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Thanks Brian. I actually had very few communication problems with Miss Wu when I was with her. It`s more difficult on MSN when you can`t read body language, and especially when Google is translating into absolute rubbish as it does sometimes :icon_cheesygrin:.
My post is quite old now, as I know a fair bit of Mandarin. And I`ve been coping very well in Japan with only a dozen words of Japanese!
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In 7 visits to meet different women in China, I never had any real problem with communication....but we did not attempt to discuss the rise and fall of the Roman Empire, or detailed debates on Unified Economic Theory :icon_cheesygrin::icon_cheesygrin:
All these women were "learning" or had "fair" as per their profiles...all these women had almost zero English. I dont think for one moment that the profile english standard has any meaning as far as conversation goes !!!...."fair" means she knows about 10 words,..."learning" means she knows two words and maybe if you are lucky she will learn more so as to converse with you !!!
I had a good quality hand-held translator and a full Professional Translation programme (Transwiz) on my lap-top. So for all normal purposes, we communicated well enough...along with hand signals, a few Chinese words and lots of body language !!
Ming and I first met on QQ in mid-November 2009, her English was poor. At this time now, after daily sessions on QQ for nearly 5 months, as well as the 3 weeks we were together in person, her english has improved out of sight, we can hold a reasonably good conversation in "Chinglish".
Even so, the ability to discuss "in-depth" issues is still limited, and will be for a long time yet. Only after a couple of years "total immersion" will she be able to begin to discuss and debate about conceptual issues, not only day-to-day stuff.
It is very unlikely that you will meet a Chinese woman who already has the ability to converse in conceptual terms...unlikely, but not impossible.
(but I have met many Western Women in the past who have limited vocal ability.......usually they only know a few words of english such as "alimony", " Foreign holidays", "diamonds" and "Ferrari" !!! plus of course..."not tonight dear, I have got a headache ,( which is taught to western women at birth ):icon_cheesygrin::icon_cheesygrin:
Aquisition of language skills is part of your journey together with your Chinese lovely, she already has the most impressive basics of character and looks !!! It is part of the responsibility you have to her, to be patient and supportive with communication and not to expect miracles of intense conversation on any subject for some time.
If you want to immediately have a ready made, fluent english speaker, with whom you can discuss anything at all, in depth.......stay with Western Women...if you dare take that risk !!!!!!
David
Ok I had to post a reply here....totally awsome post...u put a big smile on my face.
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After 8 months with my now wife we do have in depth and important conversations such as 'Dumplings or noodles for lunch"
Welcome Canadian Ice.
Willy
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i was pretty fortunate in that Sara had a really great grasp on speaking english
but at times she does get a little confused which is because of the bigger words
one might use at times