China Romance
General Discussion and Useful Links => Newbies Corner => Topic started by: Jan on September 07, 2010, 01:30:28 pm
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Greetings, I am under 30 years old guy from Finland. I'm doing well life wise, good job, good pay, apartment, etc. I've always loved the English language so
One day I was browsing the internet as I often spend time during the evenings. I find chnlove. Register just to see what kind of scam site is it. So I registered with my real first name but fake last name.
I didn't do any research on it for a while. Until I accidently clicked something and found the chnlove own forums. And from there found these forums.
Been trying to read what other people have written here. Good and bad experiences. How to know a fake.
I got quite a few admirers. And after a while it was starting to be too many. So I hid my self after starting to writing to one girl that seemed nice.
Now afterwards I'm wondering if it was she who wrote to me first or did I get hit by the agency translator.
After a while I asked for a newer picture. It was one with a webcam or phone. Quite small and blurry.
But she seems quite reserved quite often. Or then its just the translator that translate things specially.
But now I've exchanged maybe 20 letters with her. And we are starting to be somewhat close. Like talking me to going to China. And she likes to ask and comment a lot what I do. And she seems to love reading things what I write to her.
But when I try to ask personal things. She tries to avoid it a bit. Only telling some parts.
I have tried to tell her that I'd love to hear more about you too. And she usually just says what she does on free time like movies or tea.
I guess this is somewhat normal? And it is just me sharing too much hehe or expecting for too much.
I'd also like to ask her for new pictures, but knowing her to some degree I'm afraid that she might find it offensive. But I was thinking I'd send her new pictures in trade. Because she has asked for some too and I have only showed her a few because she has'nt showed me many either.
I've started to like her alot and thinking about her every day. She says she has no time for chat programs. When I asked her about MSN and QQ, and I do not have a clue how to use this QQ, except that its something similiar to MSN for Chinese.
Any suggestions for alternative communcating?
I know SMS messages are one, and email. But I'm not sure how would she react to a question like that. I'd also love to send her a mp3, player that she could listen to music I like and comment on it. But I don't know how would that work.
But I think I can't visit her until next summer. Or maybe this winter but less likely. And wondering what to do. As in I could afford the EMF letters but feeling like I'd rather not spend so much money on that. And a week I use maybe 10 chnlove credits for her.
Also she is from "Company: Jiangmen JiangMei International Marriage Co., Ltd. Agency ID: P662"
Any comments on these guys/gals? Trustworthy?
Any tips how to delicately get her more opened up, or to answer questions better.
Like I'd love to hear about her childhood and family. Shes pretty much only said she has a father and a mother. About that topic.
I've also told her I've started to study China as a country, culture and habits because of her. And I enlisted for A Chinese class, 20hours all together. For her as well.
She has said that she is willing to move abroad if things go fine. Which is a great thing. But we have not discussed this too much. Although I've tried to tell her about the great things in my country. So she would feel more safe about the thought of maybe living here one day.
I think I wrote too much in random order to this post. So it might be hard to understand. I'm sorry for this.
I also try to take things slow so I don't scare her off. She often tells me to take care of my self and if I tell her something I do and its not in my best interest she tells me that I should not do that. Or some alternative thats better. Like eating unregulary, sometimes 1 time a day sometimes 2-3. She told me to start eating regulary hehe.
Any comments or answers to my questions? Or suggestions?
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Hi Jan!
A fellow Scandinavian. Welcome.. Im just fresh in here too but have been reading pretty much all of interest on the old forum. Im not an expert when it
comes to specifically Chinese woman , or their seemingly endless combinations of habits, cultural trades and so on. And from what i have read in the other
forum this varies from lady to lady depending on many things, not just herself but her family, location, age, divorced or not and so on. The whole system
seems quite similar to that i am used of in S.korea, just the combinations are different there and so on.
I think there were several who said in the old forum that no more then 9 months before u go see her. Preferably sooner. Im in abit of a "lucky" situation
since what happened to me im back at square 0. And can catch a bus out of here more freely. I guess you cant.
But im almost 100% sure. It was the translator who edited the part about the "dont have time for chat programs". I Asked my lady politely if she had. She replied
more like "Helllllllll-O what planet ru from. ofcourse i do".
They have it on their cellphones, there are internet cafes everywhere and so on. Maybe you should adress the translator directly, like i did. She seems to be great
though. Just do it politely as i did, i said i will keep using their service as long as its genuine. Having a QQ account seems to be like having a social security number
over there. Its just as simple and easy to install and use as MSN or ICQ is. You can download the international version from: http://imqq.com (http://imqq.com)
How much have u spent in total on EMF? If its still in early stage explain you will still use the EMF, its a security for her too. Chances are her english might be close to nothing. And ofcourse , QQ will seem awkward to her then. I told mine if she doesnt know how or what then she can send it in Mandarin. You can then do a rough translation on google and even if it may come out funny you will understand. You can do the same back. I think once you can get her there you will soon realize if its her or the translator that does most of the talking in the EMF´s.
Speed up, but do it slowly as they say. I was shocked at how easy it was for me, but might just been lucky. But from what i felt and from what i have read many others say. First step is to open an alternative path to communicate on besides the EMF. I would adress the translator though, state your concern and explain you are genuinely interested in this girl. If you dont get a note back from the translator in the next reply then most here would probably say thats a red flag.
Others here will be able to give you more advice then i can. But good luck. And hopefully it will turn out for the better.
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Any comments or answers to my questions? Or suggestions?
Jan
You seem to be going down the same path that many of us before you have trodden !!!
This lady more than likely is interested in you, but possibly she has had some previous communication with guys and it went nowhere. So she will be somewhat reserved about giving too much away until she knows more about your future intentions.
Either that, or you are getting a large dose of "Translator Fluff" !!
It is vital to get away from EMF's as soon as you can and get on to MSN or QQ at the earliest time. The Agency will try to steer you away from this because their EMF income will dry up.
We have endless debates here whether this method used by Agencies, in a scam or not. Maybe it is not ethical, but in most cases, the Lady is real, but in many cases she is not being fully informed about what you are saying to her. In some extreme cases we have seen, the Lady is NOT real and this then becomes a serious scam.
You only have one certain way to get to the truth....go to China and meet her...then you will know for sure.
I dont think there is a Chinese Lady who does NOT have QQ on her cell-phone or home computer...period !!!
Dont be put off by excuses about "poor English, or dont have computer" etc etc etc The modern translator programmes on-line make this rational flawed and QQ on cell-phones is common.
My Lady often sends short "hello" messages by cell phone QQ.
Try to keep objective and dont let your emotions get into control at long range...stay focussed and get over to China...then you can let your emotions run wild with the REAL woman.
If you are a serious Man. looking for a long term relationship and not a brief adventure, then you have every right to ask her for more info. about herself, and for natural photos.....there is no
reason whatsoever to consider your requests as offensive. In fact, a refusal on her part to provide such info. is more offensive to you !!!
She will only be reluctant to give you more info. if she feels you are playing games and dont intend to visit her in person sometime soon. So your plan about a visit next summer is not the best...you should try hard to make it sooner.
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Jan first of Welcome to are forum.What David E is telling you.Is the best advice you have recieved so far.You have every right in the world to ask for more pictures.And you should really get off the Emfs.In time the emfs can cause more trouble then what they are worth.
If you can't break her off the emf.Make friends with the translator.Tell the translator.What you think.You will be real suprised.At what can be accomplished.Once the translator starts helping you.
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Welcome to the forum Jan. I can't offer anything new, because David E and Maxx covered it all. Take their advice, and ask us questions to help you in your journey.
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Jan, hello welcome to the brotherhood...
The advice you are being given is the best advice you could get, I was on Emf's for almost a year, it is a costly business Emf's. Try as best as possible to come off them as soon as you can..
You will know once you meet whether it was the lady you were chatting too, but you are doing the right things, by asking for advice from the experienced members here..
Good luck my friend
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Another communication tactic ... tell her you want to send her a card/gift/flowers/MP3/X-mas present ... and you need her home mailing address. See if she's willing to give out this info. Mention that you prefer to send it to her home as opposed to the agency.
Welcome, you'll get lots of info on this Forum.
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Welcome to the forum Jan,
The best advice I can give you is listen to what the guy's above have just told you! ;)
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Another communication tactic ... tell her you want to send her a card/gift/flowers/MP3/X-mas present ... and you need her home mailing address. See if she's willing to give out this info. Mention that you prefer to send it to her home as opposed to the agency.
Of course many will be reluctant to provide their home address until they are really sure of you. Also the address they have registered with the agency, which you can obtain at a price of a credit, often is their work address and not their home address. This information may well not be forthcoming until you actually meet in person.
Willy
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Another communication tactic ... tell her you want to send her a card/gift/flowers/MP3/X-mas present ... and you need her home mailing address. See if she's willing to give out this info. Mention that you prefer to send it to her home as opposed to the agency.
Of course many will be reluctant to provide their home address until they are really sure of you. Also the address they have registered with the agency, which you can obtain at a price of a credit, often is their work address and not their home address. This information may well not be forthcoming until you actually meet in person.
Willy
I asked twice in the past and got both personal addresses. The content in your EMFs letters will determine the comfort level that your lady has with you; that's where you creat trust ... on your part. A work address is just as good as a home address. Why waste a credit when you can just ask her for the info. As long aas nothing go through the agency, it's a good step.
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Thank you for the replies and comments and suggestions.
I will write this next message with even more care than usually.
And I think she knows that I'm not fooling around. Which I am not. Or at least I get that feeling off her.
And about visiting. I guess you are right. Maybe thats the thing because its so far away. So I'll see what I can do for this December. And what will she think about that.
And about QQ, I just installed it. I will ask her about that. And tell her I was told that almost everyone at China has it and uses it. And if she has a QQ address.
About Asian culture, I know Japanese and Korean culture decently or well. So that gives quite alot of knowledge for China. But the more I get to know the Chinese culture better. The more I notice it is alot more "delicate" compared to these other two.
I have sent her ~30 EMF letters, started writing to her in June. And probably recieved around the same number. So its quite a lot money-wise. I've told her that I don't mind using this service. But I don't know how to make her realize too that is quite costly. With the money spent on this service. Especially over long duration. It would be worth like a back and forth plane ticket.
And I've used the google translator quite a lot. So that is a good idea.
Also I think her English skills are decent or more than enough to make basic communications. She is probably just afraid to use it or the translator writing own stuff.
And also I have huge doupts about what I write to her. Sometimes I feel like they have skipped parts of my letter, or the lady has ignored it. Or then writes something else at times.
But I think writing to the translator a message will help things too. Saying something like "I am genuinely interested in this girl. And I'd wish to try communicating with her via SMS, mail or QQ as well." but I'm unsure how to finish the message to the translator. Or what more to add...
And we have talked with the girl about children, that she wants a girl and a boy. I agreed with her just that I want the girl child first so she can help take care of the boy as well (haha).
And to David, I'm getting kind of excited/scared now that I got this thought in my mind going there on December. But it will be the right decision. And I can afford it as well. But will see about next summer later on, but thats something I don't have to worry about yet.
And I'll ask her for photos as well and add one or two of me.
And her real info, I'll just tell her that I'd like to know about her family. What are they like. Father, mother and Siblings if she has any. I've told her a lot about my family. So I think she'll answer to these now. Last time I asked her we had not known for too long.
And David E is right. It will be more offensive to me than to her.
Hmm I don't know really how to make friends with the translator. So maybe some help with that?
I'm not sure about sending her something anymore if I go there on December. I originally thought that I won't have that much time. But I just have to prioritize.
Heres some thoughts for now. And I'm lucky because I work as a guard/janitor/IT-help/stuff carrier/receptionist/secretary and lots of other things. So I often tend to get free time during the evenings. When I can write in peace to her. And read her messages. And browse the internet etc. Like now atm.
More about me, I first studied at college and graduated from the IT-line. Then as a stagehand for many world known bands, which was great. And now for the government, what I wrote about a bit before.
And I've self learnt pretty much all of my English. So often if someone asks me to translate English into Finnish... It does not work haha. I know the words in English and I can describe the words in English. But I just can't get the Finnish word into my mind. Because I never learnt the words like people at schools do. Like "bird - lintu" "bus - bussi"... Etc.
I think I learnt the way children learn to speak. Just by listening. And if I didn't know a word, I Googled it. And got the English description for it. I've used the language a lot too so if I got my Finnish accent off I could maybe be thought to be a native speaker.
So using English might be a small problem for some, while going to other countries.
/Jan
Edit: This is what I now decided write to her. I was going to add a [spoiler] [/spoiler] but seems like its not working on this forum, so I'll do it as quote. Also this is just most of the letter, at first I was talking about more casual things that we have been writing about.
I also sent the letter. This might be a lot for one letter. But I'm writing what I feel. And think she needs to know these as well. And that I wish to know more.
I spent a lot of time for this part of the letter. Because I needed to think, how to write the thoughts in my brain, honestly but sincerely. So I’m sorry if this feels awkward or different. But it comes from my heart.
I just want to make sure you know. That I am in no way trying to fool around. And I really care about you. And wish for a lot. And I am serious about this.
I also read that almost everyone at China uses QQ, so I read more about it. Do you have that? I would like to try that sincerely with you sometimes. I wish that you would not be scared about this either. I can try to write some bad Chinese or read Chinese somehow if you hesitate about something. With translator of course.
Or if this doesn’t work for you, would you rather like to try SMS messages?
I would also really like to hear more about your family. What are they like?
What were you like as a child? Or growing up?
Have you told about me to people or friends? I’ve told about you to few people and they think I should stay suspicious of internet relationships. But I don’t think so. I trust you a lot already so I want to share and hear from you. But one of the friends also hoped for all the best for me. And that he wishes to hear how we are doing.
And now to the best part. I have been thinking. And next summer is too late. So I will see if I can get enough free time in December, so that I could come over there to China then. I will have to ask about this from my boss. But December should not be too busy here. And a good chance that I can get enough days off. So if you could see if you have some time then as well. So I would be there when you have some time off as well. I was thinking of 7 or more days.
Waiting for next summer just feels like so long time. I hope you agree? Or would you rather do some other arrangement instead?
Now that I’ve been thinking about this for today. At first I felt really excited. Now I’m starting to feel like I can’t wait for it. And that even 3 months is too much to wait for.
I also added a new picture I took yesterday at work through a mirror. It was in a classroom at work.
I wish to see new pictures from you too. If you could send some to me?
I can also try to get my friend take “better” pictures from now on if you wish for it. So when I see a friend, the friend could take the picture and I could send it over.
And me asking this much in one letter, I hope you don’t mind. And that this is not a too “big step”.
Also I know you know, but I wish to say it again. Feel free to ask anything from me.
I’ll be waiting for your reply more than ever so far. But still take your time with it.
I wish you a good day.
Yours
Jan
// note to translator. I wish if possible. That could you try to translate this letter in a way that would feel humble but honest. I will thank you in advance for this. And thank you for translating all the letters in the past as well. It has been almost 60 letters all together I think.
2nd edit. Also I used to be overweighted. But for her and meeting her I've started to do quite alot. And just in a month I've lost rather alot of weight. So by December with this motivation. I will even feel better about myself. And she will too. And by December I should even get to being "normal" weighted as well. Because my body structure is like one of a American football players. I'm tall and big. So that forgives alot of extra weight already and no one even notices.
But for her I'll do all I can.
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Hi jan,
I can relate to the language thing from my ex who was Korean. She learned english all by herself , and she could both talk and write it very good. But when she was trying to learn me korean she was more confused then i was lol
Approaching the translator. Im not really sure what technique would be the best but others here have better combined experience. My translator is a female, i dont know what would be better if it was a guy. But a guy would have easier to relate to what i want to say and translate it much in a way he would as a guy. But the female, knows what the other female wants to hear and not , well on a grand spectrum not down to everyones unique individuality. However having a male translator for some reason feels more awkward to me. Males are alpha predators hehe, but that wont work on the girl so you have to drop that armor and that feels abit awkward atleast for me.
I approached my translator by questioning her sincerity. That might not be the best advice in all cases. But in mine it worked really well. The translator wrote back to me and presented herself and explained she was working in the best of interest for my lady and if there was any problem i should let her know immediately. My lady had a cold recently and said she would go see the doctor if it didnt get better. I was abit worried she wouldnt so i stated my concern to the translator, she then personally checked on the lady.
So im feeling very comfortable right now, even she still adds som fluff here and there. After 20 letters or so you should be able to see through what is and whats not.
Also as someone else pointed out in another post i read. The frequent usage of the words dear or darling often in early stages might get you wondering. But if you do a translation of these words to mandarin, you will see they dont mean the same at all as they do for us and it all makes more sense.
Yes they dont forward some of your questions some times or leave out some part(s). Happened to me and alot others from what i read too. But its quite logical, atleast somewhere in that vortex of vacuum between my ears that if things are moving too fast they will pull the break abit to make sure u stick to the EMF as long as possible. If its moving too slow, they will spice up the ladies reply to motivate you to write more, and more passionate. My translator has evidently even personally recommended my lady to stick with me for which i am very grateful. The EMF´s might end up costly in the long run but if u feel u can trust the translator then thats not a problem for me to keep using it now and then. If i was in doubt however i would do everything to get the lady on alternative communication channels permanently.
Jan, a bit of advice for your trip. You live in Finland, buy your ticket STRAIGHT from Finnair. trust me, there is NO airline in Europe that will get you there safer , quicker or in most cases even cheaper. Finnair is #1 in Europe for any flights to South korea, Japan, China and India by far. And they fly nonstop from Vantaa. You should be there in 12 hours and due to the excellent service and comfort onboard trust me, its not even tiresome. You get several meals, have your own entertainment system etc. well, you
should know all this if you went anywhere in Asia with them before. December might be abit more pricey due to xmas and newyears, and note that theres often a huge price difference depending which city you decide to fly too. You can choose Beijing, Chengdu, Dalian, Guangzhou, Hangzhou, Hong Kong, Kunming, Quingdao, Sanya, Shanghai, Shenyang, Tianjin hehe and Xiamen. Quite a slection. Prices might vary greatly so plan your trip well, and note that only bold ones are direct flights with Finnair. Beijing will probably be the cheapest option, depending on dates and availability roundfare tickets will be between 500€ to around 1000€. i think HK and Shanghai during same periods are often 100-200€ more then Beijing. Checking now for my planned trip it would cost 689€. At less convenient dates cheapest now seems to be 511€
If you for some reason will be forced to fly with another carrier, avoid Aeroflot at all costs. Or make sure you have atleast 500€ cash in your pocket, chances are quite good that u have to transfer through Sheremetyevo. And that my friend, you dont want to hehe. If ur alone, chances are great that the customs will harass you. 500€ and problem is solved in a sec. No money and they wont mind harassing you far beyond the event that you have already missed your plane. just google and get horrified ;).
about QQ, my lady also confirmed everyone has it if they are within reasonable age. if they say no, somethings wrong. And she doesnt have to always be at a computer to be able to use it. Most of them also have it on their cellphone. but ofcourse, for some it might be very inapropriate to use when they work, for some others its ok from what i have learned so far.
Chinese culture and history is for sure more delicate then Korean and Japanese, also in Korea and japan its fading quicly with the new generation of people who doesnt care much or value it, I hear its the same in China too in the big cities just abit earlier stage. But i think it will not die out in China with the exception for the big cities. The country is too big and too many people live in all the country that divides the cities. In Korea and japan, the landmass i very small and everyone lives close to a big city more or less. It has both its advantages and disadvantages ofcourse. The great advantages is that it takes very little time to build infrastructure and to be able to provide the whole country with fiberoptics, 4G networks etc and at very small costs, this advantage is also selfexplanatory as to why they are far ahead the rest of us technologically speaking. Provided the facts are correct (or im gonna look like an ass there) i really enjoyed reading: (and im far from finnished)
Berkshire Encyclopedia of China
Its a 5 volume set. Totaling 2800 pages. Might be abit pricey to buy. I have it in scanned PDF version if anyones interested.
EDIT
I wrote the above before you added a copy of the letter which i just saw. Thank you for sharing it with us, its not always easy to openly share your feelings in a place like this where many will read that you dont personally know. But i think it shows your sincerity in every word, otherwise you would never had posted it.
I also think you showed alot of respect and humbleness while still managing to get all your questions through. Now we can only hope the translator will see that
aswell.
I only see one minor mistake which is:
I also read that almost everyone at China uses QQ, so I read more about it. Do you have that? I would like to try that sincerely with you sometimes. I wish that you would not be scared about this either. I can try to write some bad Chinese or read Chinese somehow if you hesitate about something. With translator of course.
I think that could easily be misinterpreted and would had been better if you had emphasized translator = internet translator like Google or Babylon
Im crossing my thumbs for you. I presume she will receive it around midnight your local time depending when they start working. If she responds reasonably fast it may be in your box when you wake up for work.
// Mikael
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Jan
I am a natural English speaker, I was born there !!!.....I have no problem understanding the content and context of your proposed letter to your Lady.
But I will be certain that the Translator at CHNLove will not get even close with translating the subtleties into Chinese !!!...so she will cut corners and make up stuff so it sorta sounds OK
I would suggest to you that your letter is wooly, vague and far too unstructured.
Jan, believe me, these women look for real Men, they come from Patriarchal backgrounds, they want you to take charge, to be the Boss (on the surface that is).
You are not giving her clear, concise issues to which she can respond.
May I suggest something like :
I just want to make sure you know that I am not playing games and I really care about you. I have big hopes for our future together and I an sincere asbout this.
I also read that almost everyone at China uses QQ, so I read more about it. Do you have that? I would like to try to talk together on QQ then we can know more about each other easily. Do you have a QQ number, mine is............ Because of the time difference, can you tell me what will be the best time to contact you ??
I would also love to know something more about your family and your history and how you spend your free time with family and friends.
And now to the best part. I want to come to China to visit you sometime in December, will you tell me if this is OK for you.
I also attach a new photo I took yesterday at work through a mirror. It was in a classroom at work.
I wish to see new pictures from you too. If you could send some to me?
Also I know you know, but I wish to say it again. Feel free to ask anything from me.
I’ll be waiting for your reply more than ever .
I wish you a good day.
sincerely yours
Jan
// note to translator.We now have shared almost 60 letters with ..... and I thank you for all the help you have given me to communivcate with her. I just wanted you to know that I am very interested in....and I sincerely hope that Yuan Fen brings us something special together.
Jan this type of English structure is easier to translate for them, dont be misled in thinking that CHNLove Translators have perfect, grammatical English...they dont. They can esasily get confused with cumbersome and difficult language...so keep it simple and you have a better chance of your message being translated EXACTLY as you said it.
Cheers...DavidE
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Jan pay close attention to what David E posted. It was short and to the point.Small words and small sentences.Keep it simple for now.Most translators cannot understand the big words.What your trying to tell the lady.Or the translator.Does get lost in translation.
The translators do speak and write English.But it is a different kind of English.It is called Chinglish.It is a mixture.Of English and Chinese.And a few other words.Nobody really know where the words came from.So again small words and short sentences.
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Jan
The way I got the first ladies address (who I was talking too) was saying to the translator
'Hi Emma (Translator)
Thank you for all your help in mine and Kathies relationship, it has been invaluable. However, I feel that we should now move on to other ways of communicating. This would help to strengthen our relationship onto the next step. Could you help to set this up please. Once this is done, we will still be using Emf's for more important issues that will be needed to be talked about.. With Kathies English not too good, your help again would be appreciated
Sincerely
Rob'
Tyhe next reply I got, I had recieved her yahoo id, home phone number and address
Everyone is different, and has different writing skills and reading abilities, so be plain, simplistic. More importantly GET the translator on YOUR side... :D
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The translators do speak and write English.But it is a different kind of English.It is called Chinglish.It is a mixture.Of English and Chinese.And a few other words.Nobody really know where the words came from.So again small words and short sentences.
Kind of like when you are trying to read what Maxx writes...its a mixture of English and something, and nobody really knows where it comes from.
You are getting excellent advice here.
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My wife and I speak in Chinglish. We both think in Chinglish. It is not that we are searching for either Chines or English in our head. We talk it without even thinking as we know that each other will understand. But speak the same way to a third party and they will have no idea what we was talking about.
Simple and short is my recommendation as well. Write as if to a child learning to read.
Even the electronic translators cannot cope with sentences that are too long.
Willy
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My wife and I speak in Chinglish. We both think in Chinglish. It is not that we are searching for either Chines or English in our head. We talk it without even thinking as we know that each other will understand. But speak the same way to a third party and they will have no idea what we was talking about.
Simple and short is my recommendation as well. Write as if to a child learning to read.
Even the electronic translators cannot cope with sentences that are too long.
Willy
I second that. When i talked with my ex thats exactly how it became naturally. My friend who listened once when i talked to her on the phone asked me after i hungup -Why did you speak English like a retard?
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Thanks again.
I often answer to foreign people on the phone. And always when talking with them, my spoken English changes a bit. I think I use mostly the basic versions of the words. Instead of adding endings or even proper sentences. Just enough so the person on the other end understands. And avoiding long words. It comes kind of a taken when speaking with people.
And afterwards I start to wonder why did my English change so much, and change to worse than with people that speak good English.
But when writing. I never even thought of that. But thanks for pointing it out. I will try to do that from now on.
Oh and I got a reply from her. She did reply to almost everything I asked. But I didn't get her to give me an alternative way to communicate with her. So looks like EMFs still. I wonder if I can get her to write with me without EMFs. She also says she has QQ but uses rarely.
And she is welcoming me to her country already. And she says she can probably get some time off as well. At least 3 days, maybe more.
And she was even joking about me saying I'm gonna loose weight by December. So at least now I have all the motivation in the world for that. I've already swam 1000meters 2-3 times a week. But guess I'll have to start doing more and more. And eating less.
Now I don't even know what to write anymore hehe. My head is not working too well, kinda excited.
Just looked for my passport, reading what vaccines do I need. And heh. Now I think I need that 24hours until I write to her. Or at least to this evening. So I won't write gibberish.
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Ask her again for other ways of communication, maybe, your first attempt got 'mislaid' or 'lost' in translation...
Others here have said they gave the ladies only a few Emf's (because of cost), and if they did not get the other means of talking, they took it to be 'Red Flags', and let go...
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Jan!
And dont forget another important thing, visum!
Personally, i dont want to sound too gloomy now as you are obviously in a good mood. But you are going there to see this girl and have no plan B.
I would certainly not do that if you havent atleast got her on QQ / Webcam before you take off. Or plan B.
If you are still willing to take that risk, then dont expect or assume anything when you leave. If nothing is as you hoped you will just hurt yourself.
Thats only my advice and i only mean well by it.
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When you have got your heart rate settled down again......
Your next move COULD be to make some enquiries about flight dates and times in December and start to talk to her about WHEN you will arrive.....then she gets to be more nd more confident that you mean what you say.
At the point where she is convinced that you really will go to see her, she ought to agree to QQ or some such face-to-face electronic communication.
If at this time she is still reluctant to move away from EMF's than I suggest you get a bit "pushy"...after all, you are doing all you can to prove you are a genuine and serious man, she should give you the benefit of the doubt, and some respect in return....make sure you tell her that !!!!
Dont be scared about being firm in what you want from her, dont leave her or the translator in any doubt....but of course, stay polite and rational and kind and calm ;D ;D
Then it will be her/their call....get real...or they risk losing a good guy.
David
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Jan , firstly welcome to you and Mikael from the other forum , your lady has said she has qq even if she uses it rarely so you connect with qq and send her your qq number and ask her to send you something even if it is only a picture or cartoon , then you will have her number he he . Most Chinese ladies are very shy which is why at times the emf translators embelish or pad the replies , so while you cannot see that in the replies 9 times out of 10 this is the case , you could also ask her if she has used the qq translation system from Mandarin to English [orEnglish to Mandarin ] before , or if she would like you to send in her language , regards Sujuan and Robert .
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As we get to know a lady ... we forget that they can be very shy .... my wife is still very shy concerning many things ... even simple things ... like asking me for something, over time they relax, and open up a lot more .... just be understanding, and patient
Mike O.
This I do know very well. And I always tell her in every letter, that she can ask me anything she wishes to. I think I tell her too much about my self always, so she doesn't have much new to ask. But she often likes to ask more specific details about the things I tell her. And that topic can go on for many letters.
And knowing the Japanese and Korean cultures decently, does give me a rough direction how to go on. But I think I have been too careful until now. Getting some help from you and getting things moving better again.
I think I won't ask her yet. But in a few letters. If I can call her, and hear her voice. Or some kind of video meeting.
And about the Visa. That is more than easy to get, because of where I live. Usually they give answer in 1-4 days. And because I'm Finnish. The answer is pretty much always yes. What I've read so far from other Finns going to China.
I remember when joining to EU, it felt like a bad thing. But slowly I realized how much benefits also brings. Get Visa to like anywhere rather easy. And don't even need that if traveling within the EU countries.
She wasn't the pretties of the girls that wrote to me. But she was the most genuine and still even if she wasn't the prettiest. She still looks like a supermodel in my eyes :).
And I think she was the right person to start to write with. I tried with 2 other girls at the start too. But one was too over excited about me and the other didn't seem to care really.
And the non photoshopped pictures of her. She looks a lot more beautiful in those than the photoshopped ones. And I've told her this once as well. But I think I will have to tell it to her again.
And I will go there to see her in person. But I feel like I have quite a good idea what she is like already. Just that I wish to know more and more about her. And now that she has told me a lot in the last letter. It will be easy to continue from there.
So I do have expectations. And I could read how excited she was getting as well. But still in doubt "if I really will come there?".
But I can keep updating here and asking for advices. From now on too.
I can add some more about myself but not go to specifics on forums. But if someone feels like asking things, can contact me on private message and QQ/MSN. I had quite a broken childhood. And the girls I have met so far, I have told them all about it. And speaking and discussing with them about it. That all made me feel better and get back to normal life and living my life properly again. But it was too much for them so I don't hear from them much anymore or hear from them at all.
It is too easy to act that everything is fine. And no one, even your closest friends or family will not notice. When I was quite broken and "alone". But because of this, I have managed to help some of my close friends. Because I know how the act goes. And I have told many my story too. After that they open up as well. I'm a good listener and sharer. But I have a lot to work on casual talking or with people I don't know well.
So all in all it has made me a better person, stronger. Also knowing what mistakes I will never want to do.
I think I wont mention anything about this until she realizes to ask. I've told her little things here and there. But she hasn't paid that much attention to it. Or it has gotten lost in translation.
Also why I don't want to reveal to her too early. That it gives too much sympathy. And I don't want that anymore really.
Of course it has to be discussed with her before deciding anything life changing. But I will leave it for later.
And meeting people via internet is a old thing for me. I have gotten to know a few nice girls that are still good friends with me, many guys that I can go drink with sometimes. Even Swedish friends that I have met and we had a blast.
And because I don't reveal too much about myself or the important information. It is easy for me to share here as well. And anyway I have a good feeling about most of you here as well. Being a inactive poster for a while. But I kept reading things here and there. Maybe with time I can post with more info so people can also recognize me from facebook and pictures. But that will take more time :). To start feeling like a family with this community.
I already feel like a family with another community with which I've been part of for over 5 years. And through there I have met plenty of other Finns and Swedes to become friends with in real life as well. And I know many guys there well enough, I think I could get a roof over my head almost anywhere in Europe/UK. Even though we have never met.
And thanks again for all the welcome messages, and tips, suggestions etc. Helping me when I have been a bit unsure about things.
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Good post Jan. And keep following your heart and all the good advices people have given you here.
Abouth the Visa tho, hehe. Its the same here in Sweden and rest of Scandinavia usually its just a few days and "YES".
BUT, if there is, slightest miniest thing that they would start questioning, so tiny even you cant begin to understand what it could be.
Then the process can be loooooong. I have friends who it has happened for to both Russia and China. So better play it safe just in case.
I know i will.
About having a troubled past, i think many more then you often think have a whole book of adventures behind them beyond your imagination.
I have had many friends who have spilled something about their past first after several years. The girls i have been with, i confessed all my skeletons
and past before we got too serious. And i was equally afraid every time that they would leave the train. But chances are far greater they will
if shadows from your past starts emerging a year or so into your happy relationship. And skeletons starts falling out the closet one by one.
If i were a girl (which, for just a few days a month worth. Im happy i aint) i would probably find it offensive why the guy had deliberately hidden
that from me, when he confessed hes love and gave his heart. Moreover, if the person in question loves you by the heart. She might get shocked,
confused, or sad. But she wont care them. I use to say i live in the present and what i care is the future, not the things that can not be undone.
My parents divorced when i was 3, they are both quite terribledrunks. i spent 7 years growing up with foster parents. When i was 19 there was
probably not a single illegal substance i had not tested and god knows how many laws i had stepped on in my search for identity.
At 20 i was arrested as prime suspect for murder and had to go through quite a rough experience. But no, i had nothing to do with that.
But my best friend who i shared apartment with had and he got 8 years. He later on commited suicide. I have personally never even physically
harmed another human being if it wasnt in strict self defense. When i was 20 and beyond that incident i looked myself in the mirror and said this is not
what life is supposed to be like. And since then i have never looked back strongly believeing i have only changed for the better and still improving.
That shady part of your life you have to tell her before any commitments are made. Trust, Honesty, Loyalty. They are as sacred words when/if you
bond with her as they are to a brother of the same flesh and blood. Im an open book if people ask today, if they dont ask i might not say if theres
no such bonds. But i told all the people who meant something to me in my life. I even just told everyone here that i dont even know ;), well in very rough
blocks. But i can tell you im sure there are guys here with even more crazed pasts. You dont have to do that, but you have to tell her. Never start a relation with a lie. It always comes back in 1 year or 12 years. But it will
Listen to the others who have already been through this regarding how to handle the translator etc. Best help and advice you could ever get.
I´ve taken a little extra interest in your case because i noticed you been here for awhile just reading. And i believe it was my story that gave you courage to share
yours. I might be wrong, but thats what i feel. And people often say its uncanny when i spook them with my intuition. If thats the case then im truly happy that what i shared gave the energy for another good guy to share hes.
Good luck!
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Yes that is why I wrote this as well:
Of course it has to be discussed with her before we are deciding anything life changing. But I will leave it for later.
But thanks for sharing as well.
And my previous post wasn't probably the easiest to read hehe. I should have used more extra lines to seperate different things from eachother.
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Ok a question:
I am trying to check for proper dates to go. And it will most likely be that I will book the flight for December 11th Saturday. But then I have a problem. To which airport at China should I try to go. If I am trying to get to Jiangmen/ Guangdong , China.
I was amazed at the price from Helsinki - Beijing is only 700euros. I tried Google airport names, but the Finnair website would not accept those airport names.
And the living costs for a week won't be too much. So I feel it will be a "cheap" trip after all.
Or I guess I should ask my lady about this, where to go to get to close enough.
Dear, you can arrange your schedule first and then let me know when you are going to come and visit me. I will ask for some days off as per your schedule, okay ?
I already asked one of the older people in charge at work, if I can take days off on December. And she was like "absolutely as long as its after the 9th, we need you until the 9th".
So this is starting to look promising. I wonder how will I manage to not get too excited about this, also the closer it gets...
I will suggest something like December 11th Saturday - December 19th Sunday to her. This way I get there early Sunday morning Chinese time. Get to be there for a whole week. Then be at home on Monday.
Because the lady can't take off too many days from work, 3-5. I will just stay there for a week I think.
Another reason why I don't wish to stay for too long is that the more holiday days I spent now, the shorter summer holidays I will have. Which will be the next time we can meet most likely. And then I can spend more time there if everything goes well.
I'll need to ask her if I need anything special with me. And what kind of weather will it be at December. Because here its most likely snow or closer to 0 celcius hehe.
But any comments on this plan?
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Jan, I think your best plan is to fly to Hong Kong and not Beijing.
If you depart from Hong Kong Airport, you can take the airport bus at Counter 16 at Coach Hall of Terminal 2, bus fare is about 250 HKD per person, and it takes around 4 hours.or Ferries from Hong Kong to Jiangmen leave at Hong Kong China Ferry Terminal. There are two ferries every day, leaving at 08:30 and 14:00, and it takes two and a half hours. Ticket fare is about the same with the bus. There are also buses from Hong Kong Mong Kok Station. There are 4 buses every day, leaving at 8:15, 9:15, 18:15 and 19:15. Bus fare is about 120 HKD per person.
So.............now book your flight and tell your lady! Best of luck ;D
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Paul Todd likely knows better...but if you are going to Guangdong Province, there is also the airport in Guangzhou. It is an international airport, and very easy to get around. The name of the airport is Baiyun Airport.
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Paul: HK is usually 200€ more then Beijing with Finnair due to higher demand. Would you still recommend the HK route?
Jan: When you get to the box at Finnair to enter the destination airpoirt. Instead of Airport or city name. Just type: China
And it will list all available destinations.
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Jan, a day travelling there, a day coming back, that only leaves you 5 days in China. You will barely have time to see anything in the city you are going too... :o
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Hi Mikael,
Strange that Hong Kong is more expensive to fly too than Beijing. For me to get to the London from Beijing it's much cheaper to leave from HK. To the point where last time I flew I took an internal flight Beijing to HK and then on to London and I still saved the best part of 2000rmb. I guess it's just a UK thing.
Jan,if this is the case for you then maybe Martins suggestion of flying directly to Guangzho is the best idea. My wife and I are flying down to Guangzho for Irish's wedding and the cost from Beijing was around 800 to 1050rmb one way depending on which day you fly, there are lots of daily flights and it's about 3 hours. So factoring that in it may be cheaper to do that route.
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Paul, i asked Finnair about this and they said because the flights to HK are much quicker sold out and that Scandinavians do alot of weekend trips to HK.
Jan: Odd, when i check prices same dates as yours, and that includes Flying from Gothenburgh in Sweden to Vantaa in Finland before the direct flight. The prise is
only 580€
I dont know if thats because i have a Finnair Club membership (get this!, it has many advantages. and get it before you book your flight not after.) but must say it was damn nice price.
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I think it reads elsewhere and I found something like that before. But I can't find it anymore hehe.
What should the "invite letter" be like? The one my lady can write for the embassy.
Her name, address and other contact info? And telling that she has invited me to come there? Or should it have anything else included?
And in what language? Chinese, English?
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I'm confused,nothing new there then. Jan what invitation letter?
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Jan,
An invite letter is very simple. Its just a normal letter. It can be formal or personal. But it needs to have the invitation written, clearly somewhere in it. If you do a google you will find many examples. I dont think it would be any different in this case. Someone will have to correct me if im wrong. Language: Keep it english. Thats what we were advised for my ex in Korea.
But do you need one now???? I think you dont. But you need one if she needs a VISA for Finland.
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I was looking for an anternative route to Changsha, Hunan and if you go to Budapest and then Beijing you could save some money and time.. As far as I remember this rout was only 19 hours long from Gothenburg and was about 200 Euro cheeper.... Next time we will use this route instead of Hong Kong... For you I guess you can get a cheep ticket from Beijing to Hong Kong
Peter
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Peter
Finnair is direct flight. 12 hours non stop. Theres no better route ;). They are #1 in Europe for any flights China, HK, Japan, South Korea, India
Only direct flights and excellent service.
UPDATE
AIR China from Beijing to Guangzho is 200€ when checking international sites. I would suggest you ask the lady to see what price she can get as im sure she can get lower. So Vantaa -> Beijing, then Beijing -> Guangzho Seems the best route. If you can get the same price from Finnair that i did ~580€ ur gonna get of with a nice price too :D
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I think it reads elsewhere and I found something like that before. But I can't find it anymore hehe.
What should the "invite letter" be like? The one my lady can write for the embassy.
Her name, address and other contact info? And telling that she has invited me to come there? Or should it have anything else included?
And in what language? Chinese, English?
I am unsure what you need an invite letter for. But my wife wrote me one after we were married so I could get the 2 year 180 day stay multi entry visa.
She just put in the letter some thing like. I miss you very much and I want to invite you to come home as soon as you can. anyway I don't know if that is correct but I got the Visa so I did something right.
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Sample of a invitation letter.
http://www.visarite.com/Sample_Invitation.htm (http://www.visarite.com/Sample_Invitation.htm)
There seems to be a great example and easily editable for everyones own situation.
A small update how things are going.
We've been writing alot lately. And writing about everything. Instead of just normal things like I wrote at the start of this post.
She seems quite willing to relocate. Even though she says that being with her lover is the most important. And it doesn't really matter where she is or what kind of conditions. But I've told her what kind of living standards I can give her. I think she's quite happy with what I can offer her. Not a luxurious life, but it won't be a poor one either.
I've tried to share her about my country too and tell her the best parts for living here. She seemed quite surprized for people being able to live here so carefree if they wish to. The government supports the people maybe even too much.
And I think she has noticed all the small things I try to hide in my messages. Like I tell her to not work so hard, so she won't be tired. And taking care of herself etc. Which of course she will do even without me telling. But I think she has liked me tell her about these small things.
I've always had more than enough topics to write to her. I always get over 5000 characters used when sending the message. But today I can't think of much to write. I think she was tired or felt bad or there wasn't something right. Usually she gives a lot of topics to write about in return as well. So the letters keep going back and forth nicely. But I'll ask her if everything is right.
I still havn't gotten her on QQ. She said she would try last Sunday, but was busy so she could'nt do it. Maybe one day...
I've been thinking quite alot about all of the things we will go through once and if we get that far, that she moves here. It will be quite rough for a while having the language barrier.
But the more I think about it, the less I take it as a minus. But instead we get to spend time together, learning the languages. Me Chinese, she English/Finnish (Finnish is one of the hardest languages in the world logic/sturcture wise).
But I don't want to get her hopes up too high, or mine before we have met.
I think she looks cute and beautifull in the non edited photo. I've asked her for more photos sending her some of mine too. But she says she doesn't have any new ones. So I will just ask for any photos, but I somehow get the feeling she is a bit unwilling to send photos or unable to somehow. Like she doesn't have any pictures on the computer or something similiar?
But I'll just keep trying my best.
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Jan , whilst it is great that the 2 of you are having lots to say , do not forget that anyone who is working in China will be working many hours [ up to 10 hours a day ] 6 and sometimes even 7 days a week if they are busy and those that are working really value there jobs , so don't tire her out , regards Robert and Sujuan .
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Jan , whilst it is great that the 2 of you are having lots to say , do not forget that anyone who is working in China will be working many hours [ up to 10 hours a day ] 6 and sometimes even 7 days a week if they are busy and those that are working really value there jobs , so don't tire her out , regards Robert and Sujuan .
I was hoping that my letters would be at least one of the highlights of her day. Something she thinks of as a "pleasant thing". Instead of feeling it as "extra work". And that she would enjoy writing to me.
I wonder if I should ask her. If I'm writing her too much. But she would just reply "no, please keep writing" or something similar. And not be rude.
I do know that she is doing 6 days workweeks. I'm not sure how many hours. But I know that she doesn't get too much free time.
I was also wondering, how to express this to her: I wish to try out different alcohols there. I still like going to a bar with my friends 1-3 times a month. And would like to experience something similar there. I've told her she doesn't have to drink and she said that she would also like to drink lemonade/juice only as well which is perfectly fine.
But its quite a long time ago we discussed this. And I feel like I would sound like someone in the AA-club if I asked this again. But she promised to take me to KTV, and I know that I will get to try it a bit then.
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I was also wondering, how to express this to her: I wish to try out different alcohols there. I still like going to a bar with my friends 1-3 times a month. And would like to experience something similar there. I've told her she doesn't have to drink and she said that she would also like to drink lemonade/juice only as well which is perfectly fine.
But its quite a long time ago we discussed this. And I feel like I would sound like someone in the AA-club if I asked this again. But she promised to take me to KTV, and I know that I will get to try it a bit then.
Danger Danger Man don't get hung up on drinking and stuff. I mean it's cool if it's your thing. But for many of these women it is a major turn off. Many of the little bit older women have had the drunken husband that would beat them 3 or 4 times a week. And if they have forget it. You can say oh I'm not that way all you want. They wont believe you. My Advice to you. Don't even bring it up again. After you are there, maybe after dinner or something ask her if she would like to go for a cocktail or a beer. If she tells you no thanks. That's your answer man, back off. Be yourself but like all guys we all do stupid S*it. But for now leave that stuff at home. You won't be there long, concentrate on learning all you can about her this trip. And let her learn all she can about you. If you both hit it off great then that means you will be going again in the near future. Because if you really fall for each other you won't be able to stay away I promise you that. Save some stuff for later after you know each other better. Have a good time but be as honorable and respectful as you know how. These are not American party girls.
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I am not looking to party either when I go there.
She promised to take me to KTV and also wrote that "We can sing and drink there." I think that will be what I was hoping for.
And she doesn't drink alcohol. Which is good and respectable.
And I've told her in the past that I take a few when I'm socializing with good friends watching a game or going to sauna on the weekends. And she did not at least say anything bad about that.
I've had my share of partying and drinking already. Thats why I'm here as well. To find that someone special to love and hug every day. I have not even really tried to look for a western girl for anything serious. I've thought if one comes I will try my best. It is just that I've liked the Asian culture for many years and find it better suited for me as well.
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Hi Mikael,
Strange that Hong Kong is more expensive to fly too than Beijing. For me to get to the London from Beijing it's much cheaper to leave from HK. To the point where last time I flew I took an internal flight Beijing to HK and then on to London and I still saved the best part of 2000rmb. I guess it's just a UK thing.
Jan,if this is the case for you then maybe Martins suggestion of flying directly to Guangzho is the best idea. My wife and I are flying down to Guangzho for Irish's wedding and the cost from Beijing was around 800 to 1050rmb one way depending on which day you fly, there are lots of daily flights and it's about 3 hours. So factoring that in it may be cheaper to do that route.
The tickets for myself and my wife to fly HK to London return came to just over 10,000 rmb for the two tickets. Jet Airways - my favourite airline. (Except for the strict security at Mumbai)
Willy
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i have never flown thru india but fron what everyone has told
me they have probably the best security at the airports as far
as being stringent.
i dont think i would want to bring powdered milk thru there that
a lot of guys bring their wives or girlfreinds. could slow you down
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I'm getting somewhere now. I'm booking my flights this week. I will go there on December. Arrive to Guangzhou airport late Saturday night. And then return home in 8 days, Sunday. I can't get more time off from work. So this will do for now.
It seems she is getting rather excited as well. Shes telling me she is learning English on her free time. She does know some already. So I think we can at least communicate without a translator. And those were her words :D.
I think she is trusting me more and more. And shes even starting to be a bit playful as well. I mostly share whats going on in my daily life. And she likes to comment everything.
Lately she has mostly been playfully asking about my mother and what will she think about her. And I try to answer to her playfully as well. And she often replys with "呵呵" (haha in Chinese). After I told her I learnt those letters she keeps using those. What will my mother think of a Chinese girl etc. But my mother is a great person so she will accept her and her own words "Asian girls tend to look after the guys more than these Europeans..."
She is telling me not to rush with my Chinese studies. But I will try to learn what I can in this time.
She has also said that I will most likely get to see her parents as well depending how well we actually work things out when its face to face time.
She is also telling me to wear more clothes all the time. Because she knows it gets cold at Finland during winters. Or at least colder than where she lives at.
I'm just now wondering if there is still anything I've missed with her?
Something I should maybe know before going there?
And one thing I've been wondering about. How much cash can/should I bring with me? I've read that 5000 USD is maximum one can bring. But theres no way I'm gonna need that much for a weeks trip.
The plane tickets are going to cost me around 900 euros back and forth. I guess its a decent price. The worst part of the trip will be when I'm at HK airport and waiting for the connection flight to Kanton/Guanghzou airport. I will have to wait there for 5hours I think. I will go out of my mind then haha. So close but still so far from her...
How far away is Jiangmen from the airport if anyone knows? Will we need to spend hours in a cab? She promised to come and pick me up from the airport.
Its still 2 months away but. I've asked her so many questions already I think I should chill for a while with it hehe. About the trip of course. Like what kind of weather will it be. Apparently cold and maybe some rain. But if it rains it can't be cold... When it rains snow then it can be cold :).
She has suggested some places we should try and visit already. But I keep telling her I will come wherever she wants to take me to. As long as she is around. We've also joked that if I get lost in a crowd or she does. I might not find her easily but she should find me easily at least. Being ~20 centimeters taller than the average Chinese and paler skin color.
I am quite sure everything will go fine when seeing her. And will lead to a new visit. But if it doesn't at least I'm a richer person with the experience. I've also thought that if it doesn't work I could go to Guangzhou airport and then to Beijing for the normal tourist places. But I think and wish that it won't go to that.
I'm quite sure that the translator isn't changing things I write to her at least much. And whoever the translator is, that person seems to be doing a good job understanding what I write. Even though I often end up just writing hard words or sentences that might not be too easy to understand.
Oh I will also need to check out how much I've spent on EMF. So I can tell her at the end of the trip. So that she can understand that I can buy a ticket to China with the moneys if we try to use Emails, txt messages etc.
She is still hardly at QQ, but I think thats because of our time difference, she working 6 days a week. But I've made some random friends on QQ. Some school aged girls add me randomly, and I ask who are they. They say they are X X... And if they can write with me just to use English. I tell them sure as long as I can try to practice Chinese with them and they can teach me something. Like I learnt "呵呵" that way.
Hmm this post is getting quite unorganized I think. So I'll leave it here 呵呵.
Oh a offtopic funny thing I found in the internet, thought I'd share it:
Chinese calendar: 2 years ago: Year of the Cow - Mad Cow Disease. Last Year: year of the Bird - Bird flu. This year: Year of the pig - swine flu. Next year: Year of the Cock. Anybody else worried???
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HK is a very good airport so spending 5 hours will not be a long time... Enjoy the last decent cup of coffee for a while if you could not find a Starbuck café ;D ;D ;D Close to the big windows are resting chairs so you could take a nap if you want to..
Don´t expect her English to be good because even if she will learn some she don't have any practising in the language..
But most of all have a good trip and enjoy yourself. China is a fantastic country
Peter
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Jan , before buying the Ticket's .. make sure your Lady has most of those 8 days your there off from Work . This is a very short time to get to know each other Face to Face and all . You need to make the best of those days for both of you and plan a longer Trip next time .
Peter is right , some of those Airport's are really great ( I love Soul's Airport and would not mind spending hours there ) and you'll have time to think of your first approach/step meeting her clearly .
You'll need it , when the nervous part kicks in . haha
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Jan, connection flight from HK to Guangzhou airport, are you crazy??!!
I just got back from HKIA. It is very easy to get from there to Guangzhou.
I used the train, extremely simple to use and no hassles.
1)Get the airport express train from HKIA (very well sign posted in the airport in English) to Tsing Yi subway station.
2)Get a subway train from Tsing Yi to Hung Hom (again this is dead easy to do, all the ticket terminals are dual language and simple to use).
3)At Hung Hom get the bullet train to Guangzhou East Railway station. You go through immigration in GZ East railway station so no huge queues like at the Hong Kong border if you took the bus.
There you have the GZ metro system in the same place and you are already in GZ city proper.
GZ airport is about an hours drive away from the city and makes no sense to fly to from HKIA unless you are rich and like to burn money pointlessly.
The total cost of all trains return from GZ is about 50 euro.
You can get the bus also from the airport to Guangzhou, but that is not so user friendly (if you speak mandarin it may be a more attractive as it is a little cheaper, though it is slower).
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HK airport does have a lot a shop to browse through whilst waiting for a plane, although one thing to be aware of, if you do not have any HKD on you or money to transfer over (there are a lot of exchange booths, just look for a map and they are all located) and you decide to use an ATM to get some HKD be aware that the lowest amount you can get out is between 4000 and 6000 HKD I can't remember which but I thought that was too much when I was there 2 weeks ago. Too much just for a coffee and something to eat. Luckily I had some AUD on me and got a little changed of that and bought some food.
Also do not believe that she doesn't drink alcohol, Xia does and when I asked her about this, as her profile says never drinks. She said that is because she never gets drunk but still drinks occasionally/socially just the odd glass of wine or the rest of my beer (which does get annoying sometimes, but then I just get her to order some more)
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Regarding the amount of money to bring, €1000 is more than enough, unless you are staying somewhere very expensive you'll find it hard to spend that in a week.
I'd recommend bringing it in cash and opening a Bank of China account when you are there. Easy to do and you don't have to carry a lot of cash around with you. The card they give you can be used like a credit card in the shops too for bigger purchases. Also you wont get charged every time for using the atm also if you use your western visa card the most you'll normally be able to take out at a time a max of 2500 RMB or around €280
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Jan pay attention to what Irishman posted to you.No way would I spend 5 hours in the Hong Kong airport.
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Jan pay attention to what Irishman posted to you.No way would I spend 5 hours in the Hong Kong airport.
Thanks Maxx.
Jan I forgot to add that the total time by train from HKIA to GZ East Railway Station is about 3 hours . Its also a pretty cool journey. Airports are bubbles, not real life, i quite enjoyed the experience of travelling on the HK metro (subway) system. You get to see real people and real life not just rich tourists in the airport.
Beats 5 hours doing nothing worthwhile in an overpriced airport any day.
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Actually, 5 hours in the airport isn't necessarily a bad thing. Let's ignore the fact that you could meet sooner, but depending on where you're from, it'll give you a few moments to acclimate to your surroundings. I don't know about you, but being on a 15-17 hour flight, you need to get yourself re-hydrated and if you're meeting someone at the destination point (airport/bus stop/etc) a little refreshing wouldn't hurt.
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Jan,
just thought I'd throw in my twenty cents worth. In terms of weather, you can check the weather on the internet as time gets closer. I am in Shenyang at the moment and would not want to be here in December. I would freeze. Guangzhou was very humid on my stopover in late September. I would recommend get some RMB money before you leave. I'm not sure about Hong Kong dollars. I used a Visa which worked out of my savings account from home and my Mastercard as a backup in case I lost my Visa card. Someone mentioned about these ladies not drinking alcohol. My lady shares a beer with me and also makes her own wine at home. It is fantastic and packs a punch. And she listed that she did not drink on her profile. You will love your trip ( I hope) and learn heaps. Like someone else said, ask how much time she can get off. If she is keen she will do her best to get as much time off for you. Have a great trip. The 'waiting is the hardest part' .
Peter
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Oh one more question.
What should I bring with me as presents? What will probably be something she will like? Or should I know that already by now :D?
And is there something nice I could bring for her parents too. If she decides I'm worthy to see them.
I'd like to buy those things in advance so I can say those are from Finland. So those presents will feel more special. I have tried to ask her a few times if there is anything she would like or her parents might like. But she keeps saying. "You don't need to bring anything, just yourself."
All I now have to do is wait for a few weeks to get my new passport. Old one is expiring in 9 months. So I'll rather get a brand new one in advance. And then the Visa, will take a few days. So hopefully by the end of this month everything will be ready. And then I just have to wait one more month for the actual journey...
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Jan, I think your best plan is to fly to Hong Kong and not Beijing.
If you depart from Hong Kong Airport, you can take the airport bus at Counter 16 at Coach Hall of Terminal 2, bus fare is about 250 HKD per person, and it takes around 4 hours.or Ferries from Hong Kong to Jiangmen leave at Hong Kong China Ferry Terminal. There are two ferries every day, leaving at 08:30 and 14:00, and it takes two and a half hours. Ticket fare is about the same with the bus. There are also buses from Hong Kong Mong Kok Station. There are 4 buses every day, leaving at 8:15, 9:15, 18:15 and 19:15. Bus fare is about 120 HKD per person.
So.............now book your flight and tell your lady! Best of luck ;D
Paul Todd have gave the best way to Jiangmeng , No need to take airplane!!
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Hey Jan I mentioned this to my wife. Her parents live there in Zhuhai. And she tells me the ferry ride is not a bad way to go. And it is different.
And then a bus up to GZ I guess maybe an hour.
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Jimmy the ferry ride is a hour and fifteen minutes from Hong Kong to Zhuhai.The bus depot is across town from the ferry teminal.The bus depot is over by Macau.Then it is a 2 hour ride by bus to GZ.So 3 to 4 hours is the travel time
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and you decide to use an ATM to get some HKD be aware that the lowest amount you can get out is between 4000 and 6000 HKD I can't remember which but I thought that was too much when I was there 2 weeks ago. Too much just for a coffee and something to eat. Luckily I had some AUD on me and got a little changed of that and bought some food.
I was in the HK airport just 2 weeks ago too. I used an ATM to withdraw 100 HK dollars. It was just like any other ATM I've ever used.
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and you decide to use an ATM to get some HKD be aware that the lowest amount you can get out is between 4000 and 6000 HKD I can't remember which but I thought that was too much when I was there 2 weeks ago. Too much just for a coffee and something to eat. Luckily I had some AUD on me and got a little changed of that and bought some food.
I was in the HK airport just 2 weeks ago too. I used an ATM to withdraw 100 HK dollars. It was just like any other ATM I've ever used.
Neil , those ATM's are adjusted different for Canadian's .. us from the US and from Finland need MORE cash on hand . ;D ;D A 100 HK woundn't get us too far !
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Jimmy the ferry ride is a hour and fifteen minutes from Hong Kong to Zhuhai.The bus depot is across town from the ferry teminal.The bus depot is over by Macau.Then it is a 2 hour ride by bus to GZ.So 3 to 4 hours is the travel time
Ok she or I must have missed something in the translation, actually the part I was thinking about most was the ferry trip, It sounded like it might be kinda cool. But now that I think again this guy is going in December probably pretty cold on the water.
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. But now that I think again this guy is going in December probably pretty cold on the water.
Isn't HK listed as "Tropical climate" which translates as "various grades of HOT, no cold"?
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Isn't HK listed as "Tropical climate" which translates as "various grades of HOT, no cold"?
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That makes sense My wife parents moved down there because his old bones didn't do to well in the cold up here. I'm way north even in summer it never gets to hot here.
Had no A/C all summer didn't even miss it.
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I have ben to hong Kong and Zhuhai in December of 2006.The temperature was around 70 to75 degrees.It was really nice.The week before I was in central China.In Janxia province.The temperature was around 20 degrees.And the wind blowing off the Yangtze river.Made it feel about 10 degrees colder
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In December even HK can be cool, overcast , windy and damp feels cold even at 68F (mid to high teens C if the wind is from the north) and I've experienced day temperatures getting no higher than 8°C last winter there and believe me that feels cold as hell in a strong to gale force constant wind with drizzle...
From the south it could be in the 80's F or mid to high 20's C and be very nice. I've experienced both during winter there, within a few hours, the weather can change 20C in a matter of hours due to wind direction. Don't count on it being warm is the main message despite how far south you are.
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I was in Zhongshan and Hong Kong last Christmas. it was very warm, but the previous week it had dropped down to a brisk 8 degrees C.
That said, the ferry is fully enclosed. It moves like a speed boat and is a very comfortable ride. I never considered going first class (I think it's a whopping 100 RMB extra), but you get to ride in the top compartment for a better view. HK to Zhongshan took about an hour and there was a widescreen television with a movie for entertainment. The ferry was an enjoyable experience for me, and I'd recommend it to anyone.
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Neil I like the ferry.For a extra fifty.You can really ride first class.They put you in this special cabin.Where you can smoke.They will bring you something to drink.And they will bring you all the paperwork you need to fill out.And a pen to fill it out with.
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good suggestion Maxx more comfy for the trip