China Romance
General Discussion and Useful Links => Newbies Corner => Topic started by: R.Ross on October 07, 2010, 02:45:13 am
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Hi everybody :)
I just signed up to Chnlove about a week ago on a whim and have met a really nice lady. I've been browsing this forum and it looks great so I'd like to share my story and get support if needed.
I'm 31, I live in Portland, but I'm not new to China. I lived in Shanghai off and on for 2-3 years while in a long term relationship with a Chinese girl. After we broke up, I was sure I wasn't go to go after any more Chinese girls for a long time.... but you know how it is ;)
Anyway I started communicating with a few girls out of curiosity, and there's one that just blew me away. She's 25, from Beijing. Her Agency: HaiYa Interpretation Service Co.Ltd Location: QinHuangDao, Hebei, China Agency ID: P708
She is a simple girl, parents are farmers from Zuozhou, but she has a warmth and seeming honesty that I really like. In her first response to my cupid note she made a lot of comments about my profile and picture specifically.
We've had 2 back and forth communications, and she's really nice of coarse. The thing that makes me pause is that we've only had 2 long letters and she's only seen 1 picture of me and she's already mentioned twice that she hopes our relationship can lead to the 'wedding palace'. She seems genuine and maybe it's just because she's young and simple.
Also I've only seen the professional photos so far, but there's 14 of them so far in 4 different outfits/locations so it's not like the one good pose type of thing.
So I'm not really asking a specific question, but it really helps to share this with you all. You know how it's all swirling in your head and you're going crazy?
My next step is to ask for natural pics and get her phone #. I would love to hear if anything sounds off or strange to anyone on here.
Thanks for reading!
Ryan
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Ryan , first as always .. Welcome to our Forum . You picked the right place to help you along on your Quest for that ever so hard to find "Right " Lady/Wife .
This early on , most of the reply's are Translator " Pluff " as we like to call it and it's not actually from your Girl . That is not necessary a bad thing . It's just to keep you interested and shelling out some $'s for Credit's . But don't be afraid to continue on and find out as much as you can and as quickly as you can , not just to safe money .. no .. to find out if she's real . Forget getting her Phone number first ( what if her english is not good ) she will be too shy to do this . Get some real Photo's first . Otherwise , both of you will NEED the Translator to communicate on somewhat equal level . If you get to know her good , let's say the first two three month's of EMF's back and forth .. then you might want to ask if she has access/own's a Computer ? Where you can move to private E-Mails and see her via Webcam for the nex to final proof if she's real . Only after that I would concider a Trip to see her . Very important to also befriend her Family or know it is ok with them what your Lady is up to .
So don't get too involved to soon or to quick and loose sight and winding up being scammed and watching your hard earned money be changed into Yuan ( RMB's ) for nothing . Be careful and ask .. ask question whenever doubtful or something looks too good to be true . Like talking about Marriage after a couple of Emf"s .
Good Luck and Welcome again .
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Ryan welcome..
Also try to 'befriend' the translator, if you can get her/him on side this is always useful too....
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Welcome Ryan, you've come to the right place. The guys here are great and this site is very informative. Good luck with your quest.
And yes, we all know how it is. ;)
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I would push for direct contact as soon as you can. If there is a language problem thats not an
excuse as it will always be there when your together. Dont let the translator milk you for the money.
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Hello Ryan and welcome aboard :)
You will find here some real useful information and also, comments about all that is linked to China :)
So, as many of us have experience through (am I right to say that?) Chinalove, man can tell you what would be the best for you to do, depending what you wish to do/live.
About your lady, well, asking for some more photos is a good idea. About the phone number, well, some people like to wait a little bit, some others can wait... you can also tell her you would like to hear her voice... or then... just see her via webcam if possible ;)
don't forget that if you can use MSN Messenger, in China, it is QQ, it is very useful to talk so with your lady with that software, at anytime :)
Also, talking together is a good thing, but as some other say here, be sure that her family can accept a foreigner in their family, before going "too fast" with feelings.
I hope to read some more news from you asap ;)
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Ask her a lot of questions first, Does she have a computer and Webcam. Hint that you think it might be fun to talk sometime.
And one of the things I have come to find out. If she avoids a question don't worry to much about it I think they all do this. I am currently living with my wife in China and she still does it. Gets annoying sometimes but usually a good reason for it.
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Everyone wants to rush you into telephone call. DO NOT EXPECT too much there. I have been with my wife for more than a year and we still cannot have conversations by phone when I am away from home. And I am not the only one who has this problem.
We can say hello and asked how we are and not much else other than a bit of Chinglish.
Maybe in a few more years I will be able to ask how her Dad is?
Willy
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No computer in the home, no computer skills, no english ability....Its all hogwash and an attempt to keep you from direct communications. I met several women online and in person since I have been here and have no problem communicating using computer software. And the ladies here that I have met have better computer skills than me! Ive been there and done that and got really burned by the agencies. I just spent a day with the lady involved in the scam in Shenyang yesterday. Fengwen, the lady I got tangled up with revealed a lot ( I mean a lot) about how the agency work and their methods. I could go on and on but I begin to bore myself. She has apologized over and over about the way I got treated by the translator and the agency but she was in on the whole scam. She is really a nice lady but it cost me a thousand dollars and a trip to china to find that out. So I agree with the others here. Demand direct communications of some sorts so you can verify you are really talking with the woman and not the translator. And if you think you are getting real photos and communications Think again. Find a way to verify it. I walked away from chnlove and I am doing my own connecting and translating and I am much happier than any experience I have had with chnlove. I read all the horror stories here and ignored the good advice because i thought well my lady was different and this couldnt happen to me. But it did. Just be careful and don't believe everything you are getting in the EMFs. The translators are getting paid to keep you on the hook. BTW guys. I am having a great time in China and I will post more in the TRIP TO CHINA thread tomorrow. I should have done this the first time it was suggested.
Pineau
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Wow, Thanks for all the great replies guys! I've read them all carefully and it's all very helpful.
I really don't like the large role these translators/agencies play. I guess it's necessary, but I still don't like it.
The good thing is that I have an intermediate level in Mandarin, so I should be able to stumble through a conversation that isn't totally meaningless. I also still have phone card credits so that's probably why I'm pushing for a phone number. ;) But if she's talking about marriage, a family, etc and then won't even give me her phone number then something is definitely off there.
I am curious to know what her parents would think, being village farmers. I'm sure they're from a village since she told me she has 2 older sisters, which wouldn't be allowed in the city. I'm more concerned about how my parents will react if I tell them my 'yellow fever' didn't subside with the first one ;) haha
Anyway I'm tempering my expectations until I get more direct communications. Thanks again everybody, I will keep you updated on our progress....
Ryan
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Ryan...in many cases, the women don't even know about the scam. There are some agencies that we know about...Changsha Love Bridge for example, that likes to send replies to the men, without the woman even being aware. We are not suggesting that all agencies are scams...the married members here are proof of this. But we do suggest that you keep your eyes wide open, and not be lead by either head.
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Ryan...in many cases, the women don't even know about the scam. There are some agencies that we know about...Changsha Love Bridge for example, that likes to send replies to the men, without the woman even being aware. We are not suggesting that all agencies are scams...the married members here are proof of this. But we do suggest that you keep your eyes wide open, and not be lead by either head.
;D haha good call. It really helps hearing from you guys to keep my head on straight.
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I guess I should have said...not lead by the wrong head.
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Well, most of the time I am lead by the wrong head myself :o or is this statement premature?
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Ok so I threw down the gauntlet, I'm not a rich guy so I can't waste money on something that's fake.
I asked for her phone number, skype/MSN/QQ, and regular pictures. I also said I understand we can't just leave the agency, but I can only do one EMF per week.
First off she said she doesn't have a computer at home, which is understandable, and her work doesn't allow them to use the computers for personal use. She then said she didn't know what Skype was :o and that we should chat through this site (chnlove). So that made some red flags go up.
But then she gave me her phone number. She didn't attach any pictures this time, and said she needed time to take more because she doesn't have a camera at home.
I guess it all seems reasonable, and the other stuff she says seems honest and heartfelt. I just really don't want to be getting buttered up by some translator. I'm hoping my BS detector is good, cause I really like this girl, I don't want to get duped. If any of you all's BS detectors are going off from your experiences please let me know. And thanks again for reading :)
Ryan
P.s. I will call her this weekend. Time to bust out the Pimsleur ::)
P.S.S. Question: If she doesn't have access to a computer, how is she responding to my EMF's so fast? Are they dictating to her over the phone, and then she is dictating back? If so then how can she see the pictures I sent which she responded to?
confused and needing sleep
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Ryan , your pss got it in 1 and she probably may even receive pictures on her mobile , just remember that several of the guys here have supplied there ladies with computers so she is not alone in not having one , and they are loath to use company property unless it is a done thing and they are senior , also remember that translators will pad out the answers to you in the beginning until a true friendship is formed and you tell them to cut it out , regards Sujuan and Robert .
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From our own experience, a few chinese people know about SKYPE... Because to them, QQ is the most important tool used to communicate, like MSN Messenger for us, in fact.
Plus, most of chinese ladies don't have a computer at home, so they can have news from us via their agencies. The agencies (also, the translator), will call them, saying that someone wrote them, and if they want to know what is the message. Also, about photos, they can show them when the ladies go to the agencies.
If the lady wants to reply, she can do it :
- via phone, to the translator. (most of us agree that some translator add some more "contents" to the letters, in fact. If there are some photos, the translator says that to the lady, who will then go to the agency to see it, or to any computer if she can access to one (friends, cybercoffee, ie)
- directly from the agencies. So, she can spend some more time with the translator, and talk more about her if she wants and can also give some photos from her or to anything else.
At first, it can be "difficult" to know if we are talking to the translator or to the lady, but well... it just needs a bit some time to make that clear, and soon, you easily guess who's who.
Anyway, don't scare yourself about that and about EMF's, too. Even if you send only one EMF/week, your lady will really appreciate that you send that EMF to her ;)
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Ryan...keep your eyes open. I know i said it before, but I am saying it again. I have red flags from what you tell us. Maybe she doesn't own a camera...I have a hard time with that one...but I also have to keep in mind that her parents are farmers, so they would not have a lot of money...and even if she is working, she was likely raised to not spend money on useless things. So I don't know. What are red flags for me, may be nothing, because of her rural background. You are doing good, by making "demands" to have things go a certain way. If she refuses to communicate outside of chnlove after a month or two, then maybe it is time to look elsewhere. Chnlove is not exactly the cheapest way to communicate. I think you are doing a great job at asking questions, and not just running in blind.
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Ryan , your pss got it in 1 and she probably may even receive pictures on her mobile , just remember that several of the guys here have supplied there ladies with computers so she is not alone in not having one , and they are loath to use company property unless it is a done thing and they are senior , also remember that translators will pad out the answers to you in the beginning until a true friendship is formed and you tell them to cut it out , regards Sujuan and Robert .
Thanks Robert. Is it usually just one specific translator that is assigned to a case? That would make sense. How would you contact the translator, just include a note at the bottom?
From our own experience, a few chinese people know about SKYPE... Because to them, QQ is the most important tool used to communicate, like MSN Messenger for us, in fact.
Plus, most of chinese ladies don't have a computer at home, so they can have news from us via their agencies. The agencies (also, the translator), will call them, saying that someone wrote them, and if they want to know what is the message. Also, about photos, they can show them when the ladies go to the agencies.
If the lady wants to reply, she can do it :
- via phone, to the translator. (most of us agree that some translator add some more "contents" to the letters, in fact. If there are some photos, the translator says that to the lady, who will then go to the agency to see it, or to any computer if she can access to one (friends, cybercoffee, ie)
- directly from the agencies. So, she can spend some more time with the translator, and talk more about her if she wants and can also give some photos from her or to anything else.
At first, it can be "difficult" to know if we are talking to the translator or to the lady, but well... it just needs a bit some time to make that clear, and soon, you easily guess who's who.
Anyway, don't scare yourself about that and about EMF's, too. Even if you send only one EMF/week, your lady will really appreciate that you send that EMF to her ;)
Good to know Sylvain.
Ryan,
I do not know about your lady, but I can tell you exactly how things worked out for me and my wife when we were at this stage...
I would write a letter, the agency would get it, and they understood English, and would read it, then they would call her on the phone, she has a cell phone. They would tell her .... you have a letter from Mike, and he says .... A, and B and C and D ... etc ... he sent some pictures of a house where he lives, and of him standing next to a car ....
so she would give them some instructions for what to say back to me ... and to save the pictures .... they did not forward the pictures to her cell phone, but for some of these ladies that might be possible.... for my wife I found out later that she would visit the agency about 3 or 4 times a year, and see pictures that guys sent, including me,
in response to my EMF the agency would create a very long, and fluffy, and beautiful letter to me, talk about the things I mentioned, and my pictures, and fill in with lots of honey this, and sweetie that, and "i love you" .... etc ... and like you are saying ... I got very fast responses to my letters!
so she was aware of my letter, and what it contained .... and she controlled the tone of the response, and asked them to express appreciation etc .... but it was NOT really from her, but was a combination of her and the agency... I was rather shocked that during one of my later sessions with my wife on computer using QQ that she told me... "I went to the agency today, and I saw all of our pictures" .... she knew I sent pictures throughout our letters, but finally went and saw them for the first time!
While my wife had a cell phone, she did not have a computer, or any internet hook-up ... she did not even know how to operate a computer and still is not good at it after a year .... for example i sent her a PDF file, and she then asked me to FAX the same document to her so she could have it on paper :o
On my first trip I bought my lady a computer, and helped her set it up.
She did not know what Skype is, and still does not know what it is .... but she has QQ, and uses it every day. So I got QQ so we could talk to each other that way.
Once she had the computer she had to learn how to use it, she had NO idea how to type on it, how to use a mouse, how to enter Chinese words .... it took a while, and she needed help from other people, but she did learn.
Now we talk almost every day, use audio on QQ, and text, and also web-cam .... it is fun ... we teach each other language.
ok, my advice to you is ..... use the phone to reach her, and struggle through that way, and over time work out a way to get onto a computer, QQ will be a good way to go, because so many chinese use it! after all it is all in chinese ! for your side of the communications use this version of QQ
http://www.imqq.com/ (http://www.imqq.com/)
which has an English interface
also, if things keep going well, then plan a trip. then you will see her situation, and her life. If a computer would be a big help, and she does not have one, or know how to use one, then this is a big problem to be solved. I had to solve it for my relationship, so it is possible.
Mike O.
Thanks for the link and info Mike. It's true I would rather buy her a computer than spend the money on EMF's. You can get a nice netbook for a couple hundred dollars these days, and a computer is more helpful in the long run. I just have to make sure everything is as real and good as it seems first...
Ryan,
Some of the agencies can be very protective of younger women, and 25 can be considered pretty young in the Chinese culture. So that is something to consider as well. You never really know if it's being protective of the lady, or protective of their profits...also, I read on this forum where one guy got his lady's phone number (he thought) but it turned out to be someone from the agency pretending to be her. This is not to say that will happen to you...just want you to be aware of it...this situation involved a woman in her 20's...I hope you have a real conversation with the real lady this weekend.
Scott
That's interesting Scott. I had thought about that too, if I call and it's not really her how would I know? Will just have to try I guess, and see how it goes.
Ryan...keep your eyes open. I know i said it before, but I am saying it again. I have red flags from what you tell us. Maybe she doesn't own a camera...I have a hard time with that one...but I also have to keep in mind that her parents are farmers, so they would not have a lot of money...and even if she is working, she was likely raised to not spend money on useless things. So I don't know. What are red flags for me, may be nothing, because of her rural background. You are doing good, by making "demands" to have things go a certain way. If she refuses to communicate outside of chnlove after a month or two, then maybe it is time to look elsewhere. Chnlove is not exactly the cheapest way to communicate. I think you are doing a great job at asking questions, and not just running in blind.
Thanks Martin. I also feel a bit uneasy about what she said, but the rural background is a thing to consider. She told me she is working in a photography studio as a designer, making wedding photos look nicer. So she can't be totally tech illiterate, right? That's actually how I found her, searching by profession of Graphic Artist/Designer.
It's a big change for me, my ex was very much a modern city girl, with a computer and excellent English. But sometimes the hard way is better ;)
I'm just really not thrilled with how chnlove is set up, so I ended communication with all girls except this one. She also said I'm "the only man she wants to know more about" and I'm "the first man I get such a strong feeling when I first saw you". Which I know could just as easily be pure fluff. How soon should I ask her to make her profile private?
Ryan
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Ryan...keep your eyes open. I know i said it before, but I am saying it again. I have red flags from what you tell us. Maybe she doesn't own a camera...I have a hard time with that one..
Me too. Big red flag. I got the same story about no photos and I will send you some soon. The reason for the delay was so the agency could modify them to look more like the lady in the profile. You cant buy a cell phone without a camera any more! Think about this, even if she does not own a camera, if she is interested in you at all she would beg or borrow one to keep you happy. Everything you have said sounds frieghtenly familar to me. Listen to what these guys are saying. I didn't and I paid an emotional and monetary price for it. And I still didn't learn my lesson. I have been back to the well a few more times with the same results. Draw a line and don't cross it. If she is sincere she should be going out of her way to try to please you and comply with your request. I think you are still talking with the translator myself. But I am biased.
Pineau
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Me too. Big red flag. I got the same story about no photos and I will send you some soon. The reason for the delay was so the agency could modify them to look more like the lady in the profile. You cant buy a cell phone without a camera any more! Think about this, even if she does not own a camera, if she is interested in you at all she would beg or borrow one to keep you happy. Everything you have said sounds frieghtenly familar to me. Listen to what these guys are saying. I didn't and I paid an emotional and monetary price for it. And I still didn't learn my lesson. I have been back to the well a few more times with the same results. Draw a line and don't cross it. If she is sincere she should be going out of her way to try to please you and comply with your request. I think you are still talking with the translator myself. But I am biased.
Pineau
You're so right. I'm really hoping it's real, but from all we know there's no way she can get any benefit of the doubt until there is solid proof things are how they appear.
It's such a dirty game, the more you spend the more you want it to be real since you're invested. The problem is I have only 1 more credit haha they know how to milk you. I'm only going to buy 4 more though and with her number find out for sure this weekend if anything's real and be prepared to cut my losses if not.
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Ryan
I know each of us does things in our own way...win , lose, or draw !!
I just wanted to contrast my own experience with the "grind" you are going through with the CHNLove saga.
I too spent heaps of time (and heaps of money) prospecting in CHNLove. I too had much the same results as you and others describe here.
I went to China on several occasions and was horribly disppointed (and ripped off !!) with the outcome. I did not know at that time to be more aggressive with requests for contact outside EMF's or for natural photos. I was stupid enough to believe that CHNLove was ethical and honest :( :(....more fool me !!. Only when I found this Forum did I get some real ideas as to how the whole thing worked and what I should be doing to protect myself .
Quite by chance, I signed with Blossoms and China Love links....mainly due to some info I got from Shaun, another Bro on here.
Out of the blue, I got a request from a lovely Lady to correspond with her...so I did.
After 2 emails, she sent me heaps of natural photos and SHE asked me if I wanted to meet her on QQ the next day.
I learned over the next few weeks that she had previously been a CHNLove client and had left them because she was not happy with the way they did Business....she only ever got vague messages from them, never saw them face-to-face and felt it was all a waste of money and time.
There are no EMF charges on Blossom or CLL, only a very modest joining fee. What you see is what you get !!!!
Of course, there are many REAL scammers on these free sites, but if you NEVER send money, you cant get scammed.
Long story short...we were married in June this year....it does not get any better than that !!!
I am not touting that anybody should leave CHNLove and try somewhere else, but what I am trying to illustrate here is that until you get on QQ or similar, you are in dangerous Country...you will never be sure what is going on. At some point in time, before you have spent a fortune on a myth, either get tough about a better contact situation...or move on. Sometimes it is hard to do this, but ultimately to keep feeding the EMF machine is pain, pain, pain.
DavidE
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DavidE. I absolutely agree. I also got the advice from Shaun. I joined blossom, clm, and cll and in no time i had many ladies contacting me. No problems about providing photos and were anxious to chat imediatly on QQ, MSN, Yahoo, IM. They know them all.
Ryan, I know you dont want to give up. For a lot of reasons you already feel something for her? But stand your ground about photos and communications. When I did this the ladies quietly dissapeared.
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Ryan
I know each of us does things in our own way...win , lose, or draw !!
I just wanted to contrast my own experience with the "grind" you are going through with the CHNLove saga.
I too spent heaps of time (and heaps of money) prospecting in CHNLove. I too had much the same results as you and others describe here.
I went to China on several occasions and was horribly disppointed (and ripped off !!) with the outcome. I did not know at that time to be more aggressive with requests for contact outside EMF's or for natural photos. I was stupid enough to believe that CHNLove was ethical and honest :( :(....more fool me !!. Only when I found this Forum did I get some real ideas as to how the whole thing worked and what I should be doing to protect myself .
Quite by chance, I signed with Blossoms and China Love links....mainly due to some info I got from Shaun, another Bro on here.
Out of the blue, I got a request from a lovely Lady to correspond with her...so I did.
After 2 emails, she sent me heaps of natural photos and SHE asked me if I wanted to meet her on QQ the next day.
I learned over the next few weeks that she had previously been a CHNLove client and had left them because she was not happy with the way they did Business....she only ever got vague messages from them, never saw them face-to-face and felt it was all a waste of money and time.
There are no EMF charges on Blossom or CLL, only a very modest joining fee. What you see is what you get !!!!
Of course, there are many REAL scammers on these free sites, but if you NEVER send money, you cant get scammed.
Long story short...we were married in June this year....it does not get any better than that !!!
I am not touting that anybody should leave CHNLove and try somewhere else, but what I am trying to illustrate here is that until you get on QQ or similar, you are in dangerous Country...you will never be sure what is going on. At some point in time, before you have spent a fortune on a myth, either get tough about a better contact situation...or move on. Sometimes it is hard to do this, but ultimately to keep feeding the EMF machine is pain, pain, pain.
DavidE
DavidE. I absolutely agree. I also got the advice from Shaun. I joined blossom, clm, and cll and in no time i had many ladies contacting me. No problems about providing photos and were anxious to chat imediatly on QQ, MSN, Yahoo, IM. They know them all.
Ryan, I know you dont want to give up. For a lot of reasons you already feel something for her? But stand your ground about photos and communications. When I did this the ladies quietly dissapeared.
I didn't know about these other sites. What are the fees like? The girls also use translators/agencies or what? I just kind of stumbled on Chnlove and was browsing, then one thing leads to another you know. I like this girl, but there's a lot of great girls out there. I'm debating not buying anymore credits if it would be smarter just to use the money on these other sites?
Thx for the advice guys...
Ryan
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Ted and Willy here have their own introduction site for you to meet Chinese ladies, pm them you never know what might happen. At least you know there honest. (Ted you can put the check in the post now!) ;)
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With you guys shedding some light on me, I decided to do this....
Since I only have 1 EMF credit left I'm going to write her and tell her that if she's true and real she can send her QQ number to me through email with natural pics so we can webcam chat. Even without a computer, there's a billion internet cafes in BJ for chrissakes.... if she can't at least do that, then I shouldn't even be wasting money/time on her. A phone call will prove nothing since it could be anyone.
Thanks for slapping some sense into me ;D
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Before you run away to fast.
I wrote my wife 2 months before she was able to scratch up a picture for me. She claimed she had no camera. And guess what she didn't.
I bought her one for Christmas and delivered it my first trip in January.
These women are not Americans. And some are very poor and have been married and badly abused. They are looking for love. And if they can find it and get a better way of life to go with it. Nothing wrong with that. Many don't have computers, and don't know how to use one if they had it.
I hear a lot of guys say, Well I find that hard to believe, well brother believe it.
If natural Pics are that important, I can promise you are gonna miss out on some really nice women. The pic's will come just keep asking.
Second forget everything you know about women. These women are more different than you know.
And again the camera the stereotype that they all have a camera. That's Japanese. The big camera companies are in Japan.
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Before you run away to fast.
I wrote my wife 2 months before she was able to scratch up a picture for me. She claimed she had no camera. And guess what she didn't.
I bought her one for Christmas and delivered it my first trip in January.
These women are not Americans. And some are very poor and have been married and badly abused. They are looking for love. And if they can find it and get a better way of life to go with it. Nothing wrong with that. Many don't have computers, and don't know how to use one if they had it.
I hear a lot of guys say, Well I find that hard to believe, well brother believe it.
If natural Pics are that important, I can promise you are gonna miss out on some really nice women. The pic's will come just keep asking.
Second forget everything you know about women. These women are more different than you know.
And again the camera the stereotype that they all have a camera. That's Japanese. The big camera companies are in Japan.
I hear what you're saying, I can understand her not having a camera/computer especially being a farm girl. But if she's talking about marriage and how I'm the only guy for her and she can't make the effort on the weekend to go to an internet cafe and get on QQ... how can I trust anything she says? I've already proven my sincerity to her by taking pictures and paying for the EMF's, all I'm asking for is a simple gesture to put everything on the table before we continue. If she really can't find an internet connection or camera in the city of Beijing or is offended by it... then I guess that's fate, plenty of fish in the sea....
Ryan
P.S. I actually do still think she's real. I just want to cut through the BS from the beginning and expose anything that could be fake.
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A farm Girl. She can probably do everything you say. And you have spent a few bucks on EMFs. Well we can start with the sincerity via money. Until you have spent at least $1000 bucks she is still ahead of you. These woman pay a fortune just for you to see who they are. And then if you go visit her, she has to pay some more, and if you marry her she has to pay more again. And most of these agencies convince these girls of well I will just say many wrong things. Up until about the time you show up in China and meet this woman, most likely her cash investment is much larger than yours.
Now so she goes to the internet bar. She gives them a couple bucks to talk to you, They show her where she can sit. Now what? She probably doesn't have a clue what to do and at the same time she is scared stiff and a little embarrassed because she doesn't know what to do. And if she had one of those typical Chinese husbands, she is expecting to be told how stupid she is.
When my wife finally got the nerve to do what you are asking of this girl. We were very lucky she has a son that is a total gamer so he knew exactly what to do so she had him take her. They are very scared and nervous gals they want everything to be perfect especially the initial meeting. and will tell you NO or put you off until they have the confidence to do it.
There are a lot of fish in the sea, and a lot of sharks too. So naturally you do what you are comfortable with and what is best for you. I would relax and give it a little more time.
Her talking about marriage very early on, this happens all the time. And she will keep doing it until it happens. Be it to you or someone else. She wants a husband this is well established. So let her talk about it. This is one of the best pieces of advice I can give anyone. Have Patience, if you don't you may as well give up now. Nothing will happen fast.
Any of these guys will tell you that, I got Married the first half of last January. Still waiting to take my bride home. So take your time enjoy the ride, stop and smell the roses. Don't have so many doubts, keep your eyes open but things aren't always as they appear.
Consider this anyone that has all of the technology and a bunch of pictures just waiting to send you, they already knew what you were going to want. WHY?
Because there's a good chance they have been through it several times already, because they are some hairy legged translator sitting in an Agency waiting to milk you for more cash.
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Jimmy well said.I would also like to point out.That if the girl is talking about marraige after the first week.It is probably the translator.Trying to keep you interested.
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A farm Girl. She can probably do everything you say. And you have spent a few bucks on EMFs. Well we can start with the sincerity via money. Until you have spent at least $1000 bucks she is still ahead of you. These woman pay a fortune just for you to see who they are. And then if you go visit her, she has to pay some more, and if you marry her she has to pay more again. And most of these agencies convince these girls of well I will just say many wrong things. Up until about the time you show up in China and meet this woman, most likely her cash investment is much larger than yours.
Now so she goes to the internet bar. She gives them a couple bucks to talk to you, They show her where she can sit. Now what? She probably doesn't have a clue what to do and at the same time she is scared stiff and a little embarrassed because she doesn't know what to do. And if she had one of those typical Chinese husbands, she is expecting to be told how stupid she is.
When my wife finally got the nerve to do what you are asking of this girl. We were very lucky she has a son that is a total gamer so he knew exactly what to do so she had him take her. They are very scared and nervous gals they want everything to be perfect especially the initial meeting. and will tell you NO or put you off until they have the confidence to do it.
There are a lot of fish in the sea, and a lot of sharks too. So naturally you do what you are comfortable with and what is best for you. I would relax and give it a little more time.
Her talking about marriage very early on, this happens all the time. And she will keep doing it until it happens. Be it to you or someone else. She wants a husband this is well established. So let her talk about it. This is one of the best pieces of advice I can give anyone. Have Patience, if you don't you may as well give up now. Nothing will happen fast.
Any of these guys will tell you that, I got Married the first half of last January. Still waiting to take my bride home. So take your time enjoy the ride, stop and smell the roses. Don't have so many doubts, keep your eyes open but things aren't always as they appear.
Consider this anyone that has all of the technology and a bunch of pictures just waiting to send you, they already knew what you were going to want. WHY?
Because there's a good chance they have been through it several times already, because they are some hairy legged translator sitting in an Agency waiting to milk you for more cash.
I appreciate your advice Jimmy, you make a lot of good points. This girl told me she works for a photography studio, doing photo touch-ups, and the fact that she's young makes it hard to believe she would be tech-illiterate.
I agree that things aren't always what they appear, that's why I want to see what's real and what's not before going further. I told her in the softest way I could, so we'll see how she responds. If she can't accept what I want her to do, then I guess we're just not a match.
Ryan
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Ok so I totally made an ass of myself :o. She emailed me with her QQ address and of coarse I hadn't downloaded QQ yet, which somehow takes an hour. So I called her and stumbled through some terrible Mandarin arrrg... so now I'm going to continue and see where this goes, I need a Chinese tutor ???
P.S. What's the best online translator? Is it Google?
P.S.S. Can anyone give pointers on how to get to know the translator? Just add a note at the end or something?
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I'm sure she appreciated your efforts. Leave a note at the end of a letter - 'Note to translator.' Say thank you for her/his translations and ask her/his name. It will probably be a her. Maybe ask her a simple question only she can answer.
I asked how can I send a birthday present. But it could be anything, just to establish a relationship.
I don't think anyone else uses it here, but I translate all my messages with 'Linguatec' It is ptretty good. Just google Linguatec, the main page says 'test for free', so I do, all the time. No need to buy the software.
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Yes just add a note to the beginning or end of one of your letters. If they are worth a damn they will do all they can to help you. ours even gave us his personal cell number. He was very helpful several times.
Translators
I Like http://imtranslator.com/default.asp (http://imtranslator.com/default.asp) it will translate back so you can see if it is what you wanted to say.
Also http://qq.bur.st/qqtranslator.php (http://qq.bur.st/qqtranslator.php) I like this one it will write the Chinese Pinyin if you want to try and learn to say the words.
And naturally http://www.systranet.com/ (http://www.systranet.com/) I like this one it seems to be most accurate from what I have seen. It is free online, but if you buy it, it installs on your computer and still works when you don't have an internet connection. Also it works with MS Word and will translate entire web pages. It is suppose to work with IE or Firefox but I have not had any luck with Firefox. The best part was when I decided to pay the $59 and went to buy it and when I got to the checkout part of the order they sold it to me for $25.
There are several others but these are the 3 I use they are all a little different just figure out which one you like best.
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Damn Jimmy, you've been holding out. Why is this the first time I'm hearing about these translation websites? I love the qqtranslator website. Bloody slick.
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Damn Jimmy, you've been holding out. Why is this the first time I'm hearing about these translation websites? I love the qqtranslator website. Bloody slick.
Sorry Neil I have only mentioned these 5 or 6 times. But I am glad you see it this time. I like the systran when talking to my wife. I don't need an internet connection. I don't know about other areas of China but it fails here pretty regular. So it is real handy for me.
I was actually thinking of getting a Cheap netbook and installing it. Carry it like a large pocket translator. And still have a full computer.
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Thanks a lot guys! All those translators are awesome! And I love the online dictionary. Very helpful.
So she has to work all day on Sunday :o For those of you guys in China, is everyone working this weekend since the National holiday was last week?
Then she's going to get on QQ at 10pm her time for a webcam chat. She said she also had doubts about the agency, but one of her friends found love on the site so she gave it a try.
Anyway I'm glad we cleared the air and we can move forward without any BS. I would much rather buy her a cheap computer than spend a crap ton on EMF's though. So we'll see how it goes...
Ryan
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Dang it, I should have known better.
We talked through QQ, she said she didn't have a webcam at work, ok. We are talking and getting to know each other for a few hours, it's going fine. Then at the end she finally gives me some natural pics. She prefaces it by saying If I was looking for beauty, she's not for me. I'm like what??? Your pictures are smoking hot.
So she sends me the pics... and I gotta tell ya it's like a totally different person. You really have to strain to see the same person in the different photos. I even know photoshop, I should know better.
I don't think I'm a superficial person, but it feels a little deceptive when someone presents themselves one way and strings you along when all along they could have been honest and shown the pro shots with the natural ones from the beginning. I can't help but feel disappointed. Not because I only care about physical beauty-- it's just that my whole image of her is changed. It's like now I finally see the real person and everything before was an act, a semi-expensive fantasy that I was more the willing to take. It's not like she's totally un-dateable or something, but we're not talking about a date, we're talking about thousands of dollars and a huge commitment. I feel bad for her too, I can't help but change my mood to her, but I didn't want to call her out on it either. She's a nice girl and all, but damn.... I'm behind on my work because of this little fantasy ride, I'm rambling, Thanks for reading. SIGH
Ryan
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I don't want people to think that love can't happen from this site and that there aren't real, forthcoming people on it, I'm sure there are. But I hope others can learn something from my little fantasy ride train-wreck documented in this thread. I know I did.
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Ryan , that is one thing we did not mention to you . Sorry it slipped all our Minds . Of course this Photoshop thing is something we all complained about to the fullest here and on the Forum before this one . Actually , we did in a way .. by asking to get " Natural " photo's of anybody's Lady as soon as possible , due to this very thing going on with most Member's here . Some were sooo bad , it almost drove the Men to become Gay .
No just kidding .
But if your Girl is beautiful inside , make that your #1 point and forget the Chnlove Photo's , this was done by them , for them and not your Lady . She most likely just been told to do this and it would be to " HER " interest , when in fact it is not .
You now make a wise decision and hope you don't regret it later . Good Luck Ryan .
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Ryan,
we all know what you went through, there have been many discussions on here about the photo's on the site verses the lady in reality, and how enhanced, improved, and how photo-shopped they are. That is why we encourage guys to get natural photo's as soon as they can .... also to adjust their thinking to the idea that the lady is an "unknown", because of the translator in the middle problem.
So you can continue with this lady, now that you know who she is better, or you can move on. As always pointed out on here, there are many other fish out there.
Now you know for next time, to not let things get ahead too fast, and to pace it, the expectations, the feelings, all need to be held back, until you KNOW the lady in reality, and you are not just flirting with some fantasy in your head, caused by pictures that are too good to be true, and a translator feeding you a lot of romantic fluff designed to hook you in. As I recall you started talking to this lady about 2 weeks ago, that is really a very short time.
Mike O.
Yup, all true. Even knowing these things beforehand it's easy to get caught up in the fantasy on the first time. Being somewhat of a romantic myself made it even easier. You know the saying, fool me once....
Comparing the pictures, and knowing some photoshop myself... these pictures here can almost qualify as paintings instead of photos. I'm even sure she's wearing a wig :o
I know not all the girls are this faked. I think a lot of them are only slightly enhanced, like any professional photographer would do with good lighting an equipment. I got some natural photos from a different girl that weren't that far off. I've seen plenty of these kind of photos in China before, so I should have known better before getting emotionally involved. I thought many times it seems too good to be true, but there's always that part of you that really wants it to be true.
To be honest, I was mostly attracted to this girl for her (fake) beauty. She's a nice girl and we had nice conversations but it wasn't like we had a huge personal connection yet. I really don't think I can continue with her. Like you said it's only been less than 2 weeks so not a huge deal really. Again thanks everyone on here for helping me out, or I'm sure it would have been much worse. And I still have some credits left 8) hahah will I really ever learn? ;)
Ryan
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As I mentioned before these girls pay a lot just for us to see them. And the Agencies do the photoshopping of them. It is their job to make them as attractive as they can so guys will write to them call them all that. I really don't think the girls want to deceive anyone. But the agencies don't care. As I said before these agencies are privately owned, and it very unfortunate and a bad way to put it probably, but they run them like a whorehouse. Some of them are very good and will work for both sides, others are out to make some money and that's it. I won't say all but most cases of the picture doesn't match is not the fault of the girl.
Guys start writing to these girls and get all hot and bothered and keep spending the cash. But a real big percentage never make it to the webcam stage, and a bigger percentage still never make it to China. I do have a couple good examples of this. But I do not dare to tell them until my wife and I are home safe and sound in the US.
And I promise I will because it will hit the fan as never before. But that's enough for now.
Keep trying buddy she is out there and you will find her. Then the real challenge begins.
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Haha thanks Jimmy. Like I said I think the major discrepancy in the photos for this girl is a lot more extreme than most. This was too far toward deception, and the fact that she had natural photos the whole time, lied about it and refused to send them makes it worse. I think she is more of an exception than the rule. Looking back now, everything was a little too perfect.
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Darn .
I wish we were all wrong but it just sounded to similar to other stories on this forum. The exact thing happened to me and a lady (Fengwen). She was not all that good looking either but still acceptable. My problem was the unforgivable deception. Actually I met with her a couple of days ago and we shared a few laughs about it. But in the end I told her that after such a horrible deception we could never be more than good friends. She accepted that but she went home very sad. After a few similar experiences I gave up completely with chnlove. if you still want to continue with your quest try Ted and willy's or http://www.chineselovelinks.com/ (http://www.chineselovelinks.com/) or http://www.chinalovematch.net (http://www.chinalovematch.net) or http://blossoms.com/. (http://blossoms.com/.) I joined all three and couldn't be happier. But still beware of fake photos and ladies with an agenda.
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Ryan instead of trying the same thing again.And ending up with the same results.Why don't you try www.chinloveagency.com (http://www.chinloveagency.com) This is Ted's and willy's site.Ted and Willy are both members here.We have direct contact with them and their site.If thiere is a problem Ted ore Willy can fix it.With a simple phone call.
According to Ted he has met almost every woman.And has interviewed them.And he is the one taking the pictures.So thiere isn't allot of photo shopping going on.If I was looking for another Chinese wife.Ted and Willy's site would be the first place I would look.They are more then willing to take.Allot of the guess work out of this for you.So why do this the hard way? when thiere is a much easier way to do this.For allot less money.
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Arnold
You are very right in what you say about "inner beauty"....its a very old cliche but beauty is only skin deep and must fade in time.
Sadly, I have a bit of a problem with CHNLove attitude to this sort of thing, and that is reflected in how many of us have felt that the exposure of a totally photo shopped Lady was a show stopper. Arguably, any of these photoshopped Ladies could well have been wonderful people on the inside.
BUT....when you begin a correspondence with a lady from CHNLove, the appearance plays a large part of your decision to begin. After all, it is difficult to see that a Man would begin a correspondence (at some cost to him) with a Lady he personally found un-attractive, or downright ugly...despite her possible internal perfection ;D ;D
What CHNLove have not got their head around is the sense of betrayal that most guys will feel when the real Lady eventually shows herself and is nothing like the original photos. How then is it possible to say..."OK, I know you have totally decieved me over your appearance, but I will persist with this relationship in case you are attractive on the inside " From this point, most potential for any relationship has evaporated, because it began with a lie.
Again it illustrates that CHNLove has zero interest in relationships, just use any trick in the book to get you to part with EMF money, knowing full well that for every man that gets sucked in, spends some money, finds out the truth and bolts...there are always many more waiting in the queue for their turn at the fraud machine.
So they must be laughing like crazy at us poor fools......they cant lose !!!!
But the men and the women in this saga are the losers, because I would almost certainly suggest that most of the women go through this deception because they are advised to by CHNLove.."it is the best way for you to get a Western Husband" etc etc etc
David
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Pineau and maxx - Thanks for the links. I already signed up for the lovelinks so we'll see. There was another girl I was talking to at chnlove who has a lot of good qualities and sent me natural pics without me asking. I just got caught up in the fantasy of the other one. So I'll use the credits I have left to check out this other girl... then I'm done with chnlove ;)
David E. - well said.
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Ryan , that is one thing we did not mention to you . Sorry it slipped all our Minds . Of course this Photoshop thing is something we all complained about to the fullest here and on the Forum before this one . Actually , we did in a way .. by asking to get " Natural " photo's of anybody's Lady as soon as possible , due to this very thing going on with most Member's here . Some were sooo bad , it almost drove the Men to become Gay .
No just kidding .
But if your Girl is beautiful inside , make that your #1 point and forget the Chnlove Photo's , this was done by them , for them and not your Lady . She most likely just been told to do this and it would be to " HER " interest , when in fact it is not .
You now make a wise decision and hope you don't regret it later . Good Luck Ryan .
I have to agree with Arnold.
Most of the women I have met in China are not like on the photos I could had get before via Chnlove... but well... they are more beautiful, face to face, than via the photos !
Ok, lot of the photos are photoshopped... And so? the women don't chose to be like that, but they have nothing to pay for that, too... it is a service from the agencies... which "suggests" something to make them more beautiful, or "different" from what they are in real....
Anyway, a photo is a photo.... it is not a face to face. A photo doesn't say how beautiful inside is a person.
And being beautiful inside also very important....
From my own experience, every woman I have met in China was very beautiful.... whatever it is inside or outside.
Anyway, I don't think right now I need to change my glasses, because if so, I don't want....
As an old saying says : "love is blind"... but do you also know "zhen ai"? ;)
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Your probably right she had them and would not send them. Well then she knew what you would think. Well I am glad you didn't just bail on her right away. And you took it all the way. It has happened to all of us. The right one will come your way.
I knew my wife was the one the moment I layed eyes on the photo-shopped picture. Something about her I just knew. And I just happened to see it while browsing the pictures of the girls, I was getting ready to break it off with the girl I had been writing anyway.
So you just never know what is next.
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my 2 cents on this whole saga
Ryan I feel for you brother, I can not say that I understand what you went through with feeling of being deceived etc. but as others have said hang in there buddy, there is more fish in the middle kingdom.
Secondly I have no problem with the girls having photo shopped pictures on the website, after all who does not want to put there best face forward when on a marriage site? I do have a problem with the company trying to use them for personal gain not for the girls gain. Xia showed me the photos she had done and there was about 50 not just the ones that are posted on the website. But maybe I got lucky or need to go to the optometrist cause I can tell it is her in the photos and to me she looks like that just without the makeup, but then again who hasn't seen a supermodel/actress in one of those this is what "blank" looks like without makeup on....you would chew your own arm off going by the look of some of them.
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Hey guys and R.Ross,
I went to Beijing and had a very interesting chat with my ladies translator yesterday and I asked a few questions about how the system works. She is only 24 years old, but gave me some good advice.
She reckons the best way to do it is to find one that you like and make brief contact, then if you can, fly over to the agency and meet her so you don't spend big dollars on EMF's. She reckons the only way to do it is like one member has, and that is to meet women face to face and then make a decision without going through the process of committing to someone you don't know well enough. I know I would do it this way if I do it again. Just find an agency where there are plenty of women you like and get in contact with the agency to arrange it. I reckon you only need 7 to 14 days maximum in China to do this. First time in China can be daunting though. I guess I have been disappointed with my ladies physique and appearance, but she is a very wonderful , gutsy and sincere woman. They certainly will look after you once they know you are sincere and trustworthy. I don't think all of the translators want to keep you on the system, as ours wants to steer us away from it. I will make another post and give an update on my trip.
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A bit related to this topic:
http://www.chinasmack.com/2010/pictures/chinese-girls-with-without-their-makeup.html (http://www.chinasmack.com/2010/pictures/chinese-girls-with-without-their-makeup.html)
There are lots of pictures to compare. Girls with make up, without, with some photoshopping etc. Can see quite a lot of difference :)
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Jan
The before and after photos were certainly startling !!!........but I think they are extreme examples of this "black art" !!
What was more of interest was to read the posts on this forum ....what a great pile of offensive, abusive and basically disgusting clap-trap.
For those who want a completely open place here where you can say anything.......please go and gave a look at the site and see the worst it can ever be !!
David
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Well, look at the name of the site, "ChinaSmack", if a KKK member was to start a segregationist site to belittle blacks, "NiggerSmack" would have the same effect and meaning as what was chosen for that site.
Who-ever started that site obviously doesn't like Chinese, and probably thinks of them as "slant eyed commie chinks".
So there's going to be a BIG Bias to the type of people joining there and posting. I bet you can guess what I think the bias is likely to be...
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The before and after photos were certainly startling !!!........but I think they are extreme examples of this "black art" !!
Certainly extreme examples. I think mine would compare well with many of those. Of coarse she told me she touches up photos for a living, so I should have known she would make herself into a goddess ;D
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i agree way to the extreme, the person is probably not a fan of chinese ladies but this
also would hold true with all ladies from every country. But i do not think it is as prevelant
here as they are trying to lead people to believe
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They seem to want to lead you astray. I think most of these ladies photos aren't on marriage sites but more on Live Cam sites and such sites. :o
Such type of photos goes for anyone. You will find photos like these of celebrities as well.
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Not really surprising at all. Look good at the pictures, they are all professional pictures.
Have you ever heard of Starshots, it's a studio where a regular looking woman can go and they dress her and do the hair and makeup and make her look like a movie star. Teenage girls love the place.
And Vince knowing Photoshop as well as he does. I think would agree you can use it and make a beautiful person look bad just as easy as make a bad one look good.
The reason to make someone look bad? Now you can make the after look twice as good.
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Ryan,
to not let things get ahead too fast, and to pace it, the expectations, the feelings, all need to be held back, until you KNOW the lady in reality
no matter which lady you decide on, get to know her on the inside, so many of these ladies are so beautiful in their attitude, personalities, and how they will treat you. Learn about her as a person, this is what matters most in a long term relationship.
Mike , very pertinent advice. above words spent me lots of tears to understand totally. I guess most of us need to experience bad experiences then we know what's the truth then we can prevent it happen again,and learn to know how to find the right way.
Ryan, are you still live in China? If yes, I hope you could find the local girl in reality instead of spending time online. If not,You have to open your eyes widely, remember to keep sensible . ask yourself twice at least below questions: do I know her well? Does she know me well?what she like me? A girl also need to ask herself and answer clearly below three questions before she think about getting married with someone.:1. Except married me,what he most expect? 2. Except losing me, What he is afraid of? 3. Except marriage,what's his future plan? If you even cann't answer or convince yourself then slow down your pace.I speak these to myself too.
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Those are very wise questions Yan. I will write those down for my own use. Thank you.