China Romance
General Discussion and Useful Links => Ask An Experienced Member => Topic started by: Lain on February 21, 2011, 11:02:35 pm
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As some readers here are aware, I recently relocated to live in Xiaolan after a failed relationship in Shaoguan (do not go there!) and for the past month have been dating a wonderful young lady who was a good friend with me almost since I arrived here back in November. Our relationship has developed very well and I was to meet her parents in April. I felt that our relationship had advanced to the point that I knew she is trust worthy and I asked her to move in with me since she lives with her older sister in an apartment to small that I cannot even imagine...my bedroom is bigger than her entire apartment. Also she is here with me most of the time, and often stays the night so it seemed logical to me.
She said that for her to live with me, we would have to get her parents permission as her family is very traditional. So a week later we were off to meet the family earlier than I had anticipated. To make a long story shorter, I will just say that the meeting went very well and evidently I made a very good impression as she was given permission to live with me....with one stipulation. We will not be allowed to marry for one year. To be honest I was thankful for the stipulation as it will give us time we need to develop a genuine relationship and see if we are truly compatible.
Ok, so now to the sad, and difficult scenario. My birthday was the 13th and we went out had a great time and the next day being Valentines Day, I surprised her with a trip to Zhongshan for a small shopping spree and romantic afternoon. About mid-day she gets a phone call as we are walking in a park holding hands and she cried out, dropped her phone and broke into tears and fell into my arms. She had just got a call from her mother that her father was killed in an auto accident while riding on a motorcycle.....obviously devastating news!! We were just there a few days earlier and I was in a state of shock myself. All I could do was hold her , my brain went numb and I could not think of a single word to say in Chinese to comfort her. After a short period of time, she said that we need to go home and she needs a bus ticket to her home town in Guangxi. I asked her if she wanted me to go with her and only a few hours later we were on a bus to her family home.
I understand that as a matter of respect, usually money is given to the mother and her siblings and so I gave the mother 2500 RMB and 1000 RMB to her sister and brother. Everyone was very grateful and I was with her for a week before I returned home just a few days ago as I neeed to attend to my business and where she lives is very poor, remote and internet access was very bad making it really hard to operate my business. She is to return in a few days or early next week.... I hope.
Here is my dilemma. It appears that the other driver of a car was (assumed) to be at fault for the accident. However The police report did not draw any conclusions as to fault directly on one person or the other and her father is dead, so he cannot defend himself. My girlfriends family is very, very poor and the loss of the father is both a huge personal and financial loss. Today my girlfriend asked me to give her family money to hire a lawyer to sue the other person. Her request was for 6000 RMB which is not a "huge" amount of money, but comes at a time when it will create an impact on my finances as my business enters it busy season and I recently spent a hefty sum on purchases for my apartment and have already given the family 4500 RMB.
I want to help her family, but from what I can ascertain the family does not stand much of a chance in court and it would be insulting to ask them to pay me back....especially if they lose in court, which I think will happen as the father was drunk at the time of the accident. I recently began private mandarin lessons with a teacher here and if I give her the money, I will need to stop my lessons for at least 2 months and make some other cuts to my life for the next month.
I do not know crap about Chinese driving laws as it appears to me there are non!! And even less about the legal framework of how this will work. She has not told me if the father had life insurance, but I doubt they did as we are taking about really poor parents...still cooking with firewood poor. A friend who does translation for me says that the family will receive some money from his employer? but could not offer any clue as to when, or how much.....again I want to help, and I am the only person her family knows that can ....but I am hesitant to anti up money as it seems that this is a common issue with relationships.
What does everyone think I should do ?.... I really like her and to be honest it is very likely we will get married after the one year family imposed probation period, but I am getting tired of feeling like an ATM machine. To be fair, she has never asked for anything in the past and I know for a fact this is genuine ...well at least the fathers death. I can afford it, but it will create some serious financial difficulties for at least a month and I just got back on my feet after my last relationship went south and allot of money was wasted....What to do?
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Lain
So terribly sorry to read this story...heartbreaking....I hope that time can take some of the pain away, but what an awful scenario.
As far as your financial help goes...your choices are easy I think.....
If you believe that this woman is your future wife...then you must help, even though it causes you some (slight) personal financial pain...she and they are relying on you
You now need to adopt a bigger role in the family.
If, on the other hand, you dont regard your relationship as permanent, then you gotta decline...but in doing so you will burn all your bridges.
After all, when is Husband/Partner's most strength needed....after a crisis such as this.
Ask yourself this important question and the answer is self explanatory.
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If your going to go for it get a hold of the lawyer (with the translator) and see what the cost really is? If the lawyer saw they are poor why would he give such a price? Maybe bargaining would help? I only know here in the US a lawyer only gets paid if he/she wins the suit.
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Lain
So sorry to hear of the tragic circumstances you are facing. What David said, is exactly what I was thinking, I couldnt have said it better.
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Lain,
Very tragic accident, You sure about this lady 100% then i think that if i was you i would not think twice about the money, Maybe you will be a little "short" for a month but you will get by,,Good luck and condolences to the family from myself, my wife and i am sure from the rest of us here on this site,
regards from MinYing and John.,
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Our thoughts are with you both at this nasty time , all we could say is follow your heart for if she is to be your partner in the future , then a little pain now will soon be forgotten , but she and her family will never forget your help , regards Sujuan and Robert .
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I have to agree with the sentiments of all the other posters here. If you decide to go with it you will be showing great face to her family and it won't be forgotten.
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Sorry about the sad news.
I would investigate the type of lawyers available ... quality-wise and cost-wise.
Also that 6,000 RMB could just be a retainer. IF, and a big "IF", there's a settlement, how much % does the lawyer keep ???
That person responsible may have no money, than good luck collecting from him. If his insurance company has to pay, it'll be fought out in courts for years.
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If your going to go for it get a hold of the lawyer (with the translator) and see what the cost really is? If the lawyer saw they are poor why would he give such a price? Maybe bargaining would help? I only know here in the US a lawyer only gets paid if he/she wins the suit.
But Lain if it come to negotiations then keep right out of sight. A UK accent will double any quote but an American one will treble or quadruple it and the sight of a foreign face will multiply it many more times. Of course no need to tell you that as you have been here quite a while now.
Willy
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My wife's friend in Changsha broke her leg in a bike accident where the other driver was obviously to blame. She is holding out for a payment which will never come. To really pursue her case, she needs 40,000 yuan. She doesn't have anything like that, and I doubt if she would win if she did. The other driver denied any wrongdoing, and just claimed he was unsighted when she crashed into him.
If the case has such a low possibility of success, Lain, is it possible for your girlfriend's family to accept this? Would you be able to suggest financial support in a different way, as in continued support for the mother to help her in a practical day-to-day way? In my wife's friend's case, giving up the legal action is not going to happen, because she will not let go of the desire for the perpetrator to receive justice, even though it won't happen.
What do other people think? Would it be an insult to even suggest that the court case may not be successful?
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Lain,
I'm really sorry to hear the bad news. My heart goes out to the family.
One comment you made puts a period on it for me. Her father was drunk at the time of the accident. Even if it was the other guy's fault the focus will be on her father being drunk. They will lose the case.
But I think Phillip has the answer. Monthly financial support for the mother. If you are going to marry this woman then I would think you need to do it sooner now rather than later. You can offer the family marriage to the daughter and financial support of X amount of money each month. Since she has other brothers and sister then they need to help too. It can't be all on you. Possibly you can also help in settling with the father company and get a clearer idea how much they will give to the mother and might even help to get it to her quicker.
I think giving 6000RMB for legal fees is a waste of good money when there are better ways to help.
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Thanks for all the advice, to be sure its a complicated scenario. Like some have mentioned I believe the money could be best used to support the family, given the fact that I already gifted the mother 2500 RMB ..another 6000 RMB would most likely be about what the father earned ALL of last year? However the final choice of what to do with the money is not truly up to me.
My girlfriend is the youngest of 3 children and as many will know, she has very little "voice" over such decisions even though I am her fiance and the one giving the money. The sad part is that it has created a rift now in the family as the older brother thinks as I do that the money should be saved for her mother to live on ... the older daughter wants to pursue legal action with the high hopes of a larger cash payout. I do not know what the mothers choice is?....but my girlfriend says many arguments have erupted at the dinner table. I am severely depressed over the entire ordeal and she is also deeply saddened to see her family fight at a time when there should be perfect unity.....but alas..money only makes problems worse, especially when you don't have any. :'(
I have chosen to give the money, but I am not going to provide the full amount she requested, 4000 RMB, not the 6000 requested. My thoughts are that this will allow me to have a "voice" that the money should be used for the mothers daily living expenses without actually having to take sides on the subject. Even though the brother thinks as I do, we have not talked about it so he will not know how I am going to play my hand. But he is now the "man" of the family, and even though I am over 10 years older then he is, I must respect his choice.
In my opinion this plays into helping him without losing face or offending the older sister. If there is not enough money to hire a lawyer, there really is no other choice. The family already knows that I am not truly in a position to give them the full amount requested. I hate the idea of denying the family justice in the courts, but I had many hours of conversation with my girls cousin who spoke some decent English and he explained to me that it would be highly unlikely the family would win, much less ever see a single dollar in a payout. He is a city bus driver in Guangzhou and as such, is most likely to understand how these things play in court. He read the police report from the accident to me when I was there, and I agree.
Furthermore if we get married next year, I have already told my girl that her mother is welcome to live with us. So she would not require her siblings to send support money and the family will once again all live in the same city. Her brother works here in Xiaolan too, so if the mother has enough money to last another year then many problems will be solved with a positive result in the end. To address the point of marrying her sooner, that is not an option. Because the father died this year, their tradition states that no direct family members can make "big choices" until one full year has passed..such as getting married or buying a home. It's considered bad luck...and disrespectful to the person who died during a year of mourning. Personally I think this is the right thing to do anyway, as this will allow us to come together as a "temp-family" before I am fully obligated. Also I need to develop my mandarin skills before I am willing to have her mother live with me.
I have been been thinking this over in my brain for two days now with very little sleep...so if anyone has some further advice, I am all ears. I have to make a decision Friday as I promised the family I would send money by then.
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That looks like a win , win situation by doing that for the Mother , good on you Lain , regards Sujuan and Robert .
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Here in Singapore, there is a society of lawyers that give pro bono advice to those who cannot afford legal representation. If you can find something like that, it might help clarify things like various courses of action, chances of compensation, average amounts, fees, a good lawyer who is willing to get paid upon successful win, etc... at the very least it might tell the family some hard facts through a neutral 3rd party, and shows your empathy.
Wish you all the best, dear friend!
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Good call, I think you have handled it very well, good luck
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Thought I would update the scenario now that some time has passed and the situation is resolved.
The situation was not accurately told me by the family in that it was actually her father that was at fault. He was drunk , as stated and hit the other vehicle while riding a motorcycle home late at night. The legal fees were actually to defend the family from the owner of the car he hit. In the end I was able to persuade the family to settle with the other person and pay for the damages to his car over a 4 month period. The money I gave was used as a "down payment" and the family accepted a payment schedule for the balance. I was not told the whole truth by my girlfriend as she was too embarrassed and felt great shame. She did not want me to "pay" for her fathers mistake , and given the fact that he lost his life...it was very hard for her. But in the end, everything worked out.
She has been living with me since late February, and I can say that while there have been several "communication" problems mostly related to her not telling me things , the relationship is great and it looks like I have found the one? Time will tell , but so far its working very well.
I will be going back to her family home next month for the Chinese "grave sweeping holiday" to visit her family again. We will be there for a week , and upon return is her birthday. Her mother will come back with us and stay for a week to see my home and visit Xiaolan. I hope everything goes well with her visit and she approves of my home .. of course compared to how she lives, this is the best her daughter could hope for in a home and relationship.
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Thanks for the update Lain , yes sometimes we are the last to know , but I just accept with no drama and no panic , it pays to keep the peace and get rewarded ha ha , regards Sujuan and Robert .
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Lain, I am glad to hear that it was cleared up and that all is well with your relationship.
Robert, You are a wise man and... as Peggy would say... sneaky. ;D
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Lain good job.And yes we are the last to know.And it doesn't change.No matter how long you are married to a Chinese woman.After a while you do learn to anticipate your ladies little suprises.So it doe;s get easier.
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Lain good job.And yes we are the last to know.And it doesn't change.No matter how long you are married to a Chinese woman.After a while you do learn to anticipate your ladies little suprises.So it doe;s get easier.
Oh yes .. don't forget if you happen to do wrong on anything .. her Family is the " First " to know about it .
Example : I just went to my Immigration Lawyer for a Visa ( invite letter ) for Qing's brother's Wife to come and Visit us .. some time in July/August . Paid $ 150 myself and She will pay the other $ 150 when she get's the Visa . So , I come Home and have all the Papers nice and ready to be Mailed the next day for Qing to take to the Post Office . Now after she got Home from Work , she see's these and instead of a big Thank you ( which I expected ) I got a ear full of .. Did you have Copies made of all these Papers .. so you can do it myself next year when she comes again with Qing's Son . I of course have it all and was going to do it myself anyways , but this went on for a good 30 minutes ( to safe money of course and I understand the Chinese in that compartment ) til I got a little hot-headed myself and told her .. we don't need to worry about this for another year .. then we worry about . She started to see that I was getting mad ( under control though ) and she put a stop to it right there .
Now of course , talking to her Brother letting him know the Papers are on the way .. he got to hear that I was mad . Haha .. but the Brother is on my side covering me up where needed and told her I was righjt . Only now is all good and all I can say .. is oh Boy . So the point is , no matter how old their are , Family get's to hear it all if you do something that is against their thinking .
I love her to pieces anyway .. like I like to say .. I love to adjust where necessary .
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Hello!Lain,Very happy this thing has a good treatment.In China. Handling such complex events is very difficult.I can understand your mood.I want to say: you are a good man! The girl was very lucky! ;)
Rachel.