China Romance
General Discussion and Useful Links => Newbies Corner => Topic started by: Iceland on April 19, 2011, 07:31:33 pm
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Hi everyone.
For the past 3 weeks I have been corresponding with this lovely woman I met on Chnlove.
Last Friday she sent me a short letter, telling me her Grandfather had suddenly died and that she must go and see her family. I immediately sent her a short letter back with my condolences and I haven't heard from her since.
I was wandering if there was something particular I should say or do in these circumstances. Or should I just wait until she gets back to me and see what she says?
Any advices?
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My advice. give her a few more days, then send a short note, telling her your thinking about her and her family. Do not make it too heavy though, just let her know, your there if she needs you...
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Scottish and Jer are spot on , family will come first for probably a week , regards Sujuan and Robert .
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Patience my friend things will happen like this. If there is something there between the two of you, she is thinking of you and can't wait to get back to you but she must do the family thing first. When you think about it, it is what you want her to be like anyway; devoted to family.
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Yes shaun is very correct in his thinking :) :) :)
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And remember it could also be just a get out excuse as well. And if it comes with financial request then you know the answer.
I hope this is not the case but the woman often think of many excuses instead of just telling you they are no longer interested.
I have lived within the Chinese Community for nearly two years now and they never tell you anything straight.
But hope for the best as there has got to be one somewhere who has been talking with a foreigner whoe father/mother really has died.
Willy
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I'm with Willy here, it sounds a little suspicious only because I heard similar excuses before. I hope that is not the case here and there really was a death in the family. Just be patient and like someone said, if she asks for money, run.
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you would wait and be more patient for your lady first. then you would ask her: would you need to pay some money for her because of her Grandfather.
you know their friends need to give some money to the family if person of the family die in china. in china dying is called baixishi (白喜事). it is the same as the married that is called 红喜事.
Sara
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Sara, I do not mean to go against Chinese culture here, but I am with the others here. If she asks for money, run. We are here to meet a significant other...not financially support someone that we have not met. Just my thoughts.
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Martin
i just wish your guys would know the chinese culture more, espesially in the countryside of china. and i wish your guys would ask your lady more questions before you meet face to face. your guys would make sure what kind of the chinese lady would be fit for you.
some of my dad's friends did give some money to my dad when my dad was sick and in the hospital. that means they cared of my dad in china.
this is the chinese culture.
Sara
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Iceland
If she is not politely giving you the brush-off, then after a while she will be back again. Whether Western or Chinese culture, the death of a beloved Grandparent is a bit all-consuming.
Hang tight and await further developments, I think you have done all possible in sending your condolences.
Sara....
Surely it is not Chinese Tradition for a stranger to be asked to give money for a death in the family ? If it is an old friend, a fiance or a spouse, it would be understandable.
And maybe some Chinese Women should learn some more about Western Culture...to ask for money under MOST circumstances is seen as very bad. Gifts of money may be given in Western Culture...but never asked for and never to be taken for granted...especially from a stranger.
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Sorry Sarah, I too agree with the others, I would never give money to anyone that i have been in contact with for such a short amount of time or have never met, My wife has never asked money from me and it was my idea to send her regular amounts only after we was sure about our relationship continuing, She was still reluctant to take it or even to give me her bank account details until i explained to her that it will help with the visa process.
As for not knowing the Chinese culture i think that most of us all here have learnt a great deal about it or are learning every day, In myself do study as much as i can about the culture and this is why i was attracted to my wife and the Chinese people.
Regards from John.
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i think i need to explain someting. what i siad: giving some money for the death is not to much maube just 100- 500yuan first. second all people who are the frinds of the family are willing to give the family of the death.
Sara
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There are times when there is going to be a clash in regard to the two cultures we find ourselves in with this subject.
For the western man he is rather reluctant to give until he knows that this is possibly the perfect relationship. As many of us has seen even meeting face to face, spending time together and even getting married does not insure that you will not be taken advantage of.
It is kind of like buying a used car. You find one, you like the way it looks, it seems to run real good, but the real question is will it last. There isn't much difference here except you are messing with people lives and emotions. Bottom line is the man and the woman. Is he willing to take the chance, kick the tires so to speak, and see if it is worth while. Is it possible that he might lose? It is always possible. But to sit on the sideline and never venture out gets you nowhere real fast.
It is up to you but I wouldn't give until it hurts. How much would you give on a first time date? I wouldn't give much more than that before meeting face to face.
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An ordinary funeral with the required rituals is an expensive thing here and the money usually comes from donations received as 'condolence' money from relatives and friends of the deceased person.
The names of those who contribute and the amount given is noted in a ledger. This ledger is kept by the next of kin to the deceased who will be responsible for the family's affairs. What this means in practice is that he/she will keep track of everyone who gave money and should any deaths occur in their families this next of kin is responsible to visit and donate an equivalent amount or more towards the funeral. I think it is a good way to show solidarity and pool resources for an expense that many families can not afford.
A similar ledger is kept for weddings too and returning the favour is also expected with similar or larger amounts of money, just part of the glue which holds this unique culture together.
The bereaved family and newly weds are given time to recover financially as they are excused from everything for a period of 100 days from the event. In fact it is considered taboo for them to be seen at any weddings, funerals or any other celebrations for that period.
As far as I can see no one has been asked for any money up to this point and Sara was answering the question "I was wandering if there was something particular I should say or do in these circumstances. Or should I just wait until she gets back to me and see what she says?
Any advices?" in Icelands thoughtful post.
As for using this as an "excuse" for ending a relationship you have to take into account the idea of Face in this culture and if this was used to end a relationship it would be your face that was being saved although it may not appear that way at the time. Chinese people very rarely square up to anything head on in the same manor that we do. I understand how frustrating this can be as I have to deal with this on an almost daily basis, Quite often it can be viewed as flat out misleading but in truth it's not. We loawai have much to learn about our wives and girlfriends culture and time spent studying it will reap it's own rewards.
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All this talk of money just makes me think of a song from the movie Cabaret? Money money money- money money money...
This is not an easy decision to make when faced with it. Send money, don't send it? We have our own culture to contend with as well. There has to be a line in which if and when you cross it you know where you are.
Giving money to a family you have not met or even met the woman herself I think is foolish, but that's my drawn line. If your married that is one thing but just starting off a relationship and she demands money on behalf of her culture? Houston, we have a problem. Would you be sending money because it is the culture? or to be accepted?
We have our own culture also you know. In our culture (and any other I would suppose) there is a don't be a sucker. We don't know if (example) that grandfather was real or not? He may have past away years ago? I can tell a story of something that happen years ago but I'll save it for now but it's a lesson on what a person will do to get money.
If your uncomfortable in sending money fore it's the end of the relationship if you don't? Then guess what? It most likely wouldn't work out anyway. Make your Line.
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I have been bitten more than once so I seriously question any sort of story like this.
There has been a death in the family. That’s serious . But after all she and her family are nearly total strangers. So that’s not so serious is it? If she asks for money, then is she a con? I think so. (personal opinion). Even if she wanted the money what on earth would make it right for her to ask a stranger. At this point in your friendship I don’t even think she should mention it.
But if she doesn’t ask for money, should you offer it as a gesture? That would go a long way towards letting her know you sort of understand or are trying to understand the culture.
Perhaps there is nothing to worry about or maybe as Willy said this could be the brushoff. At any rate it would do you no harm to wait and see if she returned to the correspondence with you and at that time offer her 100-500 Yuan. Or don’t bother. If she is not conning you I don’t think she would expect it anyway.
There is nothing you can do at the moment so just wait and see. And if you do give her money don’t give more that you would give anyone else you just met.
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This morning, I finally received a letter from the lady in question. And if I was a little bit confused before then I really don't understand anything now.
But first, for everyones information, she has never asked me for any money and didn't even hint at it in the letter she sent me a week ago telling me about her Grandfather's death. So that is not an issue.
But when I read her letter today, I could not believe my eyes. It is such a strange letter and completely out of context.
In it she does not mention her Grandfather's death. It is like it didn't happen. In short, what she says ... well ... I would actually like to show her letter here, but I am not sure if I am allowed to.
Can I do that if I don't reveal any identity?
I would really like to get your opinion on what you think is going on here and I feel the only way for you to understand my confusion is to show you her letter in whole.
I hereby ask for permission to do that.
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You can post the letter here but make sure there isn't any identity shown for security sake. There has been letters posted before and I even have a ladies contract posted (with her name removed).
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Here is the letter and a short briefing on what led to it.
We have been corresponding for about 3 weeks and in that time exchanged 11 letters.
To me this has from the start been a healthy and normal conversation.
She took the initiative of contacting me through private email and sent me many ordinary photos of herself.
She has been fun to talk with, sincere and in my opinion totally honest. I have not found one thing I consider suspicious about her.
To me she is a sweet and kind lady who is truly looking for a lifetime partner.
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Last Thursday (April 14) I sent her a letter as usual, which was in direct context of our conversation up till then.
On Friday (April 15) morning I got this letter from her:
"Hello my dear (my name),
I'm very sorry for my late reply. (This sounded awkward since her reply was not late at all. I had writen to her the day before)
Because my grandfather has died in this early morning..I must go back home and visit him. (She lives in Wuhan but is originally from Zhuhai, Guangdong)
Now I feel very sad to hear about grandfather's news.
I haven't seen him for years.
I wish I could be have more time and visit him sooner.
However, as my mom visited him in hospital..she said he was still fine.
Then she came back again.
I think everything was going well with him.
I didn't worry about it so much.
I couldn't believe he suddely passed away.
I was thinking of him so much.
When I was a kid, my parents put me at his home for several years.
My granddad is the kindest man for me.
If I want to eat something, as long as he could get for me, he must do it for me.
In a very thunderstorm night, there was a strong wind outside.
I want to eat cookies..he took a little umbrella and buy for me.
When he was old, I couldn't visit him every year. I feel really guilty.
Well, my dear (my name),
I think when I come back, we can talk more again,
Please always take care,
Your sincerely (her name)"
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I was at my computer when the above letter arrived and I immediately replied:
"Dear (her name).
I am very sorry to hear about your Grandfather.
Take your time attending to this matter. I will be here when you come back.
Yours,
(My name)
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And now to the strange letter I received today, a week later:
"My only dear (my name),
Ni hao ma (my name), I still want to write to you here .
It has been a long time since the last time we wrote here .
Are you still in Chnlove ?
I send you some a letter here and you never answer my questions here , so I am wondering if you are still here :)
There are so many people here trying to play games and I don't know which one is honest .
You are the only man whom I wrote so many letters with .
I trust you that you are serious :)
I only hope that we can still talk here as happily as we were before , is that possible ?
If you get this letter here, please send me a letter and tell me you are fine , ok ?
Nice day .
With my love and kiss.
(her name)"
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Don't you find this peculiar? I want to repeat that all our conversations before were as normal and healthy as they could be in my opinion.
Now she talks about a letter (or letters) she has sent me but haven't gotten a reply to. There is no such letter(s). I have always replied back.
She seems to have totally forgotten about her last letter to me and her Grandfather's death.
This is so surreal to me that I don't know what to make of it.
Can anyone take a guess on what is going on?
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I forgot to mention that I have already replied to her letter and I am now waiting in absolute excitement to see her reply.
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I have a question. Did the letter you are calling strange arrive from her private email or from chnlove?
could it be the translator wanting to find out what is going on between you two?
could it be the translator juggling too many balls and forgetting the last conversation about the death in the family?
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I had something similar happen to me. Turns out the translator sent me the wrong mail - destined for someone else. Is that possible?
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I see that two people have already replied before I began my reply. For the sake of uncluttered thoughts I will not read until I am finished.
To tell you the truth it sounds to me like two different people here. The first could actually be your girl and the second a translator just trying to keep you interested until she comes back and quite possible the translator does not know what has transpired to this point. This would be true especially if your normal translator has taken a few days off and the office is allowing new translators to fill the gap.
I suggest you still wait a week and see if the wiriting reverts back to what you think she would sound like in her writings.
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I will go shopping here and take a little of Neil's, some of Shaun's and Mike's also. It's the translator. Trying to sound or think what the woman would say. Could be the switch in translators also and trying to keep the fee coming in? I wouldn't bother writing a reply to it, wait for the lady to write you again and later when you meet bring it up to her. You'll have your answer then.
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What everybody is posting is exactly what happend.They switched translators.
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It could be a case of "cut and paste" gone wrong. I know that the translators do this. One incident that happened to me - about a week before I was due to go on my first trip to China to visit Xia I received an emf from "Xia" about 2 lines long saying - Sorry I have met and am corresponding with some one else, I wish you luck in your future, love Xia.
To say that I was angry, hurt or any other such emotion was an understatement. I then sent an email to the agency asking what happened and to please explain. The agency responded that it was indeed ment for some one else and was not from Xia at all. But they were "busy" that day and a lot of emails were sent to the wrong people.
Needless to say Xia and I are now married and she will be here on 13MAY. YIPEE. But I digress.
It maybe worthwhile finding out from the agency if this is the case or it maybe as the others have mentioned you have a new translator. I recomend to anyone when they go to China to go to the agency with your GF, fiancee, wife and see how they conduct business. It is an eye opener and can help explain how much goes on there both good and bad and also how they correspond with the ladies.
p.s. if you are reading this and you were the recipient of this "dear John" letter you have my condolences. But do not give up the search, the end surely outways the journey.
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I have a question. Did the letter you are calling strange arrive from her private email or from chnlove?
This is through chnlove. We haven't exchanged letters yet in private, only photos.
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Thanks to all for commenting.
It sounds very strange to me if the translator is sending me EMF's on the lady's behalf without consulting the lady in question. But of course, I don't know anything about how they work or how they do things. In the short time I have been with chnlove I have grown more and more suspicious towards the agencies and the translators. In some cases I have even suspected that they alter the letters to their peculiar liking although it says clearly in chnlove policy they are supposed to deliver them "as is".
And I must say that Jason's story about the 2 liner note from Xia scares the #$&% out of me.
I am definitely quitting these EMF's asap and turning to QQ and private email instead.
I have been practicing a lot my corresponding techniques in Chinese through the QQ chat using online translators and it has been going very well. I have discovered that if I use two or even three translation tools at the same time and translate my own translation to Chinese back to English before I send it I am able to eliminate most of the unwanted translation faults. It slows down my communication speed, but I would rather have it slow and correct than fast and full of misunderstanding.
But anyway ... I am still waiting for a reply from my lady and FYI I also addressed the translator in my response and asked for her/his explanation. So I am very excited to see what comes out of this.
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Hi Mr Ice , yes the translators will pad out emf's both ways , so until you are rid of them and in direct contact , with a cam or an arranged cam meeting do not send confusing messages , as you have found out even in Chinese there can be several similar words about the same as English to Chinese and the whole sentence can be changed , good luck in the coming week , regards Sujuan and Robert .
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Ice, if your lady has sent you photographs through private mail, why not been talking on that...? instead of chnlove?
I would wait and see what transpires, I think the guys may have it spot on, with 'translator & fishing for revenue.
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Robbie, it is my intention to move my correspondence with the lady over to the private email but I haven't felt confident enough yet to do that. But that time is coming up.
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you would wait and be more patient for your lady first. then you would ask her: would you need to pay some money for her because of her Grandfather.
you know their friends need to give some money to the family if person of the family die in china. in china dying is called baixishi (白喜事). it is the same as the married that is called 红喜事.
Sara
I think I go with Sara on this issue. If you read Sara post carefully, you will see that Sara tells that Island should ask the lady if he should pay some money. She does not mention the lady asking for money. I agree with the others, not to pay money if the lady asks for it. But if Island asks the lady if he should pay some money, he will earn a lot of face. Wether the lady tells him to pay or not.
If one think of the dozens of dollars some of us have spent on the wrong ladies, $40 or $50 would not be a big loss if one should loose the money send to the lady. In my opinion it depends on your feeling, Island. If you feel good about her, spend the money if she want to accept your offer. Remember it is for a good cause, not just pleasure money for the lady. I would do it, if was feeling positive about her.
For the other part with the last letter you received, I agree that the translator screwed it up. If you have the ladies private email, you could tell her short that the agency is messing with you. She will fix it.
Well, thats my opinion on this issue.
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Thanks to all who have commented.
I have now written her three letters after the incident that sparked this thread and gotten three letters back from her.
It was not the translator who was messing up.
It was the lady. She was getting cold feet, as someone suggested was a possibility and the reason for all this. She has now told me that she got so frightened suddenly. She had signed up with her agency in March and two weeks later she was already deep down in this very serious relationship with a man (me) she knew nothing about. And although she had enjoyed this in the beginning it had dawned upon her, as the number of the letters between us grew, that this was no game.
And when I had told her I was actually coming to China to meet her, it seems to me she got very afraid and insecure. Dubious questions began to pile up ... What if this man is not who he says he is? What will I do if I don't like him after all? What will he do when I tell him? ... and thoughts like that started to scare her.
I would be a fool if I didn't understand her situation and concern and in my letters to her since then I have tried my best to set her mind at ease regarding me. She seemed very relieved that I wasn't angry with her but understood her anxiety. I told her that whatever would come out of this the worst thing that could possibly happen was that we would still be friends. I always wanted to visit China anyway and since deciding to go there I was also going to use the trip to build some business contacts. So the trip was not all about her and not her responsibility.
It seems I have managed to calm her. I hope so. But I don't know how this will go. She might get cold feet again and she might not.
I got a theory about the root of this incident.
You know that in the letters from the majority of the ladies (I think) there is a lot of intimacy in the very beginning. They call you "my love" and tell you that "you are their one and only" and so forth without even knowing who you are. This is what she did in her letters to me.
I now think that this intimacy and love-talk is coming from the agencies. Not that they are changing the ladies letters but more like they are advicing them to do this. Being an absolute beginner in this field I started replying to her in the same way, with the same intimacy, thinking that it would make her happy and secure about me. But now I think it was totally wrong of me. It had the opposite affect on her. It scared her.
It would be interesting to hear some point of view on this from the experienced members her.
ps. I have not dared yet to ask her about her grandfather so I don't know for sure if that was the truth.
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Iceland
I think you have got to the core of the truth with your observation.
For both Men and Women, it is easy to get caught up in the possibilities of Chinese/Western relationships, it all sounds so exotic, exciting and possible, early on. This scenario is heavily helped along by lots of translator "fluff"
Over time, the reality begins to bite, the scenario becomes more real and then the dark thoughts, uncertainties and fear creeps in...the "what if" syndrome. As you begin to become more verbally intimate, again promoted by translator exaggerations and maybe bad advice, both of you realise you are going down a track that could be dangerous because after all, you are still both complete strangers really.
It is difficult to know the best way through this phase, until you have met face-to-face, you cant know whether these flowery words can turn into a reality for you both. That is why we say "get over there soonest and decide one way or the other." There is little point in continuing an EMF relationship long term into the future.
Accept that this is phase 1 of any potential relationship, and has little meaning until you get to phase 2 (web-cam and more personal interaction) and phase 3 (a personal meeting)...if and when you get to phase 4 (a marriage) you will have something close to perfection !!!
Phase 1 is pleasant, necessary and useful...but no more than this. It is oh so easy to fall in love (!!!) with a translators phrases or with the thoughts of what might be......but it aint real......yet !!!
We have all been down this track, one way or the other and sometimes it works out, sometimes it doesn't. Just keep in mind WHY you decided to look in China for your future life partner, and remember that it would be a rare happening to marry the first woman you correspond with seriously, or the first woman you actually meet..........rare but sometimes possible.
In any event, dont kid yourself that you can begin, develop and conclude a relationship by EMF....thats Testosterone talking, not reality ;D ;D
Dont get concerned, you are doing OK....but you gotta get over there and see for yourself....see it , feel it, touch it...so to speak ::) ::) ::)
Cheers...David
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Iceland I'm going to go with David E on this.It is all a big unknown until you are there.Standing face to face with each other.The flowery words are nice.And they do serve a purpose.They do tend to draw the men in.And the translators do know this.And they keep using the flowery words.To keep the man writing letters.What the translators don't realize is some of the men do actually.Beleave that a girl they have never met.Would be saying things like that to them.
A friend of mine the other day received a emf letter from a 22 year old Chinese girl.who started out the letter.Talking about her virginity.And how she wanted my friend to be her first and last lover.Needless to say this blew my friend out of the water.And he had swallowed the bait.He bought a bunch of credits.And was getting ready to write the girl back.After he showed me the letter and I read it.I had to break the news to him.That a translator had written the letter.And the new love of his life didn't Evan know who he was.
The same thing happend to a friend of mine in China.Her translator was writing To a man.And the man was writing back.I read the letters the man was writing to my friend.The letters the man was writing read like a third rate porno magizine.When I looked at the letters the translator was writing for my friend.I could see why the man was writing the way he did.The translator was coming on hot and heavy.It was so hot and heavy.The translator was promising endless love sessions.Ten minutes after the guy arrived in China.
When I returned to the states.I called the guy.Told him what was going on.With the translator.He told me.He had thought that the relationship was moving way to fast.He told me he stuck with it.Because the letters sounded good.And he wanted to see.If she would go threw with what she promised in the letters.I assured him nothing was going to happen.Like what was written in the letters.
He did make a couple of trips to China to see my friend but they couldn't ever work it out.She met another man on a different dating site and they go married.He ended up marring a woman from Nanning.The translator had gone to far.And had got him wound up so tight.That he couldn't get over the porno letters.Enough to see my friend for what she really is.a kind carring woman.Who just wanted somebody to be with.After her kids left home.
So to stop my ramble.Keep your eyes open and your head up.And if you receive a letter from a woman on Chnlove.With allot of flowery words.Remember it is probably the translator adding those words.Just to keep you coming back for more.
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I agree with Maxx. It is easy to get caught up in the flowery talk. Both girls and boys like to hear it but really no one talks like that except in Romance novels. So if youre messages are reading like a romance novel or a come-on from a porn star, wake up your only dreaming.
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Well, I would call this a "positive" surprise.
Because of the lady getting cold feet and open up for her concerns should give you a better base for talking about the important things, like get to know each other better. After the lady has opened up for her feelings and you have responded to that, it should make her a little more confident with your ambitions.
I remember when I was writing to my now wife, I had some concerns too. Would we be able to handle the language barrier and difference of culture. We were lucky to have a translator who did not manipulate the letters and I build kind of relationship to translator too. This way I could get clarified things, if there were phrases in the letters, which I did not understand.
I asked my wife a few times, how she did know that I was the right one. Well, she answered that she did not know, but she trusted her feelings. As Maxx stated before somewhere else in the forum. The real work begins, when the lady moves into your home and you live together. But the EMF/email conversation can be a good help on this road of getting to know each other, if you can talk open without the translator manipulating the letters.
By telling her what you expect (or not expect) you may have won her trust. Only time will tell if the relationship will be a success or not. It can be very challenging sometimes, because of the way it works. One cannot see the face and reactions of the counterpart.
I wish you all the best for your journey finding the right one.
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Hey David, I must be one of the rare people on this site to have met the only lady that i corresponded with on Chnlove and actually have got married, I had the usual letters that were "fluffed" up so i ignored these, MinYings letter was so simple and without the "hype" so i thought i would take a chance and write her back, Every day for nearly 5 months we wrote to each-other before we actually met in person, Yeh i know that was a lot of EMF,S an reasonably expensive but my life was spent at home most days being the single dad so the daily letters were the high lite of my day.
Here i am today only 3 weeks from my third trip and could not be happier, But yes after reading many posts here i believe to be a very rare case but as happy as the next guy to find his Chinese love. John.
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Yes John, I was mindful when I wrote the post that you were an "EMF only" success story, that's why I said it was a rare thing and not an impossible thing. But I think you would agree that it is more probable that many EMF relationships are very difficult to bring to a conclusion without a face-to-face. After all, even though you both had decided on each other via your EMF's, if when you met in person, there was a totally diferent reality, it may not have turned out so well for you both ;D ;D
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Mike, We must two pee,s in the pod,,So to speak, We have been so lucky to find our"'perfect match" In a sea of so many Beautiful and wonderful women so quickly, Over the last few weeks MinYing and myself have had so many phone calls between each-other and i am enjoying every minute, Her English has become form non-existent to learning in leaps and bounds, The calls are mixed from English and Chinese, 'Chinglish", But our understanding is getting better by the day, Never before have i been so happy, "And frustrated" With a beautiful lady, ( communication), Long hard road, Tyres are pumped, Fuel is topped up and i am more than ready for the journey, There are many on the road before us and many to follow, There are many " pit stops" until the end and many people to give "a helping hand" Which i have found here, Good luck to you, and all that have set out on this journey and i hope our road to happiness is full of good times and no " blow outs", David, Yes i have read many a post here of when things go wrong and when the lady they have been corresponding with is not the same person they have met in person and if i was one of those "many" then i would be so pissed, So to speak, But on a positive note, I will be in Beijing in two weeks, six days, seventeen hours and twenty minutes with my Lao po ;D ;D ;D ( I am so lucky) ,,MinYing and John.
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Mike, We must two pee,s in the pod,,So to speak, We have been so lucky to find our"'perfect match" In a sea of so many Beautiful and wonderful women so quickly,
Hey guys, then I am one of the pee's too ;D I found my wife after searching for 2 month. We have been living together for 20 month now. As John writes, its a bumpy road but if both want to make it work, it can work out.
Have a nice and save trip, John!
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I found my wife through chnlove too (indirectly!).
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Oh yes I remember, the Irish story. It took a little time and had its up and downs, but it ended happily! Your story shows that patience and endurance pays off!