China Romance
General Discussion and Useful Links => The Campfire => Topic started by: Martin on June 01, 2009, 06:18:48 pm
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I would like all debate over Proteus to be held in this thread, so we can leave the other thread open to all other questions. I will delete non questions posts from that thread.
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So why do some of you think there is an alternative motive? I'll assume it's a guy. He's here on his own and wanting to help. As he reads any posts he will see where we're coming from. I know of another forum that is aggressive with any posters there. I don't want to see this forum that way.
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I agree with your last sentence Vince. This is why I opened a new thread, that was separate from that one. I know some of our pfishy friends are over here...but this forum is not going to go the way that theirs has gone. We are trying to get answers, and do it in a non aggressive kind of way.
To be honest, when I read some of the threads that followed his original post, I started to get the feeling that we were a bunch of school children here. I understand the frustration, but a translator is an employee of an agency...not chnlove.
And if this is someone from chnlove, then I personally welcome them, as maybe, through reading some of our posts, they will be able to create an even better company, for the men that will come behind us.
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I know this forum started from men helping other men get a general understanding, get answers, ask questions. It has grown into having to hear the problems of some and having others learn from it. Keeping it real. Just like hearing the mens point of view and opinions, I would like and interested in hearing the translators view and opinions.
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When I first started reading Proteus (lets call him he) I assumed (very possibly wrongly) that he is/was a plant from Chnlove, however, one thing I have noticed, and that is 'he' seems to be opening up in his answers, let's us not forget, not all or everything he tells us, will suit all our members, there will be some that agree and there will be those who still see something wrong.
In his last reply, he sort of implies that what Vince says about 18/19 year old's is true, that they are there for eye candy. For an employee to state this, would, I imagine, put their job in jeopardy, if he is a plant I don't think he would reply like that. But on the other side of the coin??? We have all got to remember that not all the agencies are trying to scam us, there only hast to be 'one bad apple' and they all get tainted with the same brush.
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I think it is good Proteus is posting here.I wasn't to happy with it at first.But I'm ok with it now.I think he does need to have a look at the other threads and give us his take on it.A different point of view
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Martin , thanks for starting this Thread . You Guy's know already how I feel about Proteus . We can not waste an opportunity to have / get insight's of an Translator , if Man or Woman , that should make no difference . About the 18 / 19 year old's , that they were Eye Candy , was not hard to figure out from the very beginning . Those Girl just came out of School and started to work most likely at some Restaurant or being a Clerk with we have Millions in China . But the two things that makes this very unlikely for them to be serious ... one being still young and her Parent's are not going to dish out $ 1000's of dollar's for their "Girl" that she still is . Second , no chinese Parent is going to let their young daughter go to another Country before finishing at a higher School then middle school . Some of the Agencies might get away with scamming some of the younger ones here ( under 25 ) maybe , but not the older and wiser here . Anyhow , who would look for a Child to marry that's over 30 ? That is when I draw the line , about the maximum 15 year difference rule . This rule applies between a Woman and a Man in my Mind . Not a Child and a Pervert.
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Arnold I guess I'm not a pervert? First of all at 19 she is the age of my younger daughter. Second I think I know enough that it wouldn't last more then one day. I put up with my daughter cause I have too. ;) But the new posted profiles had these two right next to each other 18 & 19. The first thing I thought of was why? they can't marry (to young) so why are they on a marriage site? No matter the guys age, I hope they see this as a trap. I also wonder some if these girls did sign up? and why? Only interested for research reasons. :P
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But the new posted profiles had these two right next to each other 18 & 19. The first thing I thought of was why? they can't marry (to young) so why are they on a marriage site? No matter the guys age, I hope they see this as a trap. I also wonder some if these girls did sign up? and why? Only interested for research reasons. :P
Suggests to me that Chnlove allows scamming... more evidence we should be on our guards, guys.
Anyway, I am in a whinging mood today... :D
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I'm like Vince.I always wonderd why the girls 18 and 19 signed up.Because it is alot of money.
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Well , I admit that I checked out their Profile , but that is how far it's got . Then you wonder ??? Why , howcome ???
Vince bringing up your 19 year old daugther , thought I tell you a little about my Brother . He has a 19 year old daughter and now after divorcing has himself a 18 year old going on nineteen . He's 48 , but do I mind ? No .. not really , because it's not me . How could I ever show my Face anywhere , with both of them present ? We are living with all kind's . But he's still my brother and love him as such .
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You got the right idea , Toon .
That's is what I did to find my Wife . Never a Cubid Note , send her a long letter right from the beginning and it work quite well . hehehe
A Cubid note sound's so impersonal , get down and open your Heart to the one that caught your Eye and hope for it to bloosom into something more than a return letter from the Translator .
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She's 19 with a bachelor's degree and she's a dance coach. 1+1 really does add up to 3.
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I say we see what this person has to say. I think he or she is a public relations guy or gal trying to bandage all the collateral damage that has been done to Chnlove as well as the agencies lately. This forum is killing thier bottom line and they are scrambling to sway our opinion back in thier favor. We are not the gullible group of guys we were 6 months ago trusting that we are being treated properly. Whatever the reason I am really curious to what he or she has to say about what I posted on his or her thread. I have irrefutable evidence of wrongdoing on Chnlove as well as the agencies. Been around for a bit and have uncovered a lot of outright criminal fraudulent behavior and I want answers. Thank you Martin for creating this thread otherwise I would have not been prompted to even read Proteuse's propoganda thread. The jury is still out until I see some sign of good faith on his or her part. I have a great idea, we should set up a meet with me in Shenzhen and I'll verify if this person is who they say they are. I personally don't buy it, seems like more deception to cover thier tracks, to save face and future revenue. The loss of trust translates into big dollars to them. Recoup before it really starts to affect the businesses. Yes, I maybe overly paranoid yet that doesn't negate the fact of what is really going on. Too many red flags to ignore anymore. If I am wrong I will publiclly apologize on the official forum as well as this one. Everyone on here knows China Shark Mike from Philadelphia, Pennsylvania who currently resides in Nashan, Shenzhen China. See Proteus there is my sign of good faith, now show me yours.
China Shark Mike
PS See Sharks do excist in China
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In reality that girls real reply is more of, while texting "Huh" "yeah" "Whatevverr"
When I go to NY and see my daughters I am always aware if some might think it's my girlfriend? When out for dinner and such. I haven't even seen a second look (but that's NY) but I'm always ready with "She's my daughter" reply incase.
Shark? What's the matter with you? "they are scrambling to sway our opinion back in thier favor" I don't see this at all? Like I said in another post, lets not get nasty and basically attack because of postings. Lets hear what he or they have to say first. Swaying us will never happen. But I would like to see these rumors dead and buried.
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Vince, you know I am a righteous guy so you must understand where the guys that are currently being scammed stand. We are nervous about plunking credits down only to keep going through it over again. You lucky guys have it made so it doesn't really adversly affect you. I have had a bunch of these credits and everytime I start to use I find out it is another ruse to extract money from me. These aren't rumors, everytime I try to start something with a woman on here it turns out to be a fictious profile or the girl wants a penpal. I have at least 6 of these types just in the 7 months I've been on Chnlove. I appreciate your sentiments yet we cannot bury our heads because it is stirring up dust or rocking the boat. If enough complaints are filed, followed through with on the forums they will actually start taking us seriously, they'll have no other choice. I am not a nutjob like Geordie, these are legitimate concerns and I am not attacking anyone's posts. If Proteus feels he was wrongly accused he or she can reply back the same as everybody else here. I suspect ulterior motive here, why is he or she suddenly appearing after all the smoke was starting to clear up about the shennanigans that were going on. Vince there are no coincidences in life. It was a calculated strategic counter move. Yes, I am overly paranoid yet not stupid. Questions need to be legitimately answered before we give the keys to the city away. We really don't know who or what motives are behind Proteus'es posts. Jury is still out until I see something worth giving he or she the shadow of a doubt. Being cynical and paranoid insures that I will not be taken advantage any longer here or anywhere.
China Shark Mike
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Shark, while I understand your sentiment I think you are taking out your frustration with chnlove on someone that claims to be here of their own volition and not in a official capacity which seems a little harsh (and i have reasons not to doubt them on that).
Know your enemy my friend.
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Guys Yes I am mad about a lot of crap going on lately but you guys are buying everything he has to say without a shred of authenticity. Let him or her prove thier credibilty before you hand over the keys to the city. I am not attacking a post or individuals just stating some facts you guys seem to be overlooking. You guys can play Sunday quarterback because you've all found your girls. What about the guys still presently being victimized by these predators. I do know thy enemy and I stand behind everything I say on here. Stop being so trusting and naive and start doing something about it other than criticizing people who are trying to take a stand. You are my brothers yet I'm starting to feel like I am being classified the same as Geordie which is highly insulting.
Shark
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I also think its a bit strange, someone shows up after we send a letter to chnlove.he/she hasn't told us anything we don't really know already.And when pushed on any issues he hides behind his job.if he's annonamous(dont know if that's spelt correctly )to us then surely he must be to his bosses,I think we have a Chinese 007 in our camp?( shaken and not stirred )
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Sharkman, I know what your saying and I didn't learn all of this by not losing money in EMF's. I did figure what I spent in EMF's and took out for the EMF's to my current lady and I was in the hole (no pun intended) for a grand. That's $1,000.00 and change before I met Song. But there wasn't a brotherhood forum to ask about things.
I went to a hearing because my boss was being sued a few years ago. Because I was the supervisor I had to make a statement. As they (4 lawyers) were preparing to take my statement, I was asked if I was prepped or given answers? I said it then and I say it now. No one puts words in my mouth or tells me what to say. I tell it as it is.
So I think it applies here too. If Chnlove, a agency, a translator thinks they will sway me or us into thinking all is fine? with flowery words? They got the wrong place. I don't care who it is? If I think I'm being lied to? I'll call them out.
If this happens I will be first on line to beat him down. But it hasn't happen yet.
And nobody is classifying you. If he did something wrong I would be happy to let you loose on him? After me. :P
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I'm with Shark on this one.
What i have seen from Proteus so far i's just generic chit chat. Could have written it myself. Suggest we just let him/her alone until we get something that we have not heard before or are provided something that prove credibility. From my point of view. This is Chnlove trying to do "damage control".
I will encourage persons who ask him questions, make sure you get proper and spesific answer to your question's. We are offerd answer in the thread title so way should we settle for less ?
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So with all this controvery over how legit Proteus is, and we all know Mike is there in Shenzhen, dont you all think that since Mike is very much in the brotherhood that they meet in person. I understand the Shark being a little bitter, but then again so am I with things at present, but at least we can find out if this Proteus is real, it doesnt mean that he has to give out which agency he is from or anything that could cause him to lose face but at least it gives some of us more confidence in his approach to our questions that we ask and he responds to, and does also help "or destroy" his creditibility
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Its a open discussion board , which is good so we all have an opinion Proteus is either a PR man or a guy who really wants to help , my own point of view here is to lean towards the Sharks opinion ,
As i see it there are basically two lines of thought
1.. PR , well the reason to post is obvious then , to improve relations , increase trust , mainly for business reasons
2.. 'Good Guy wanting to help' .. well im trying to think deeper into this , if Proteous is genuine and talking to us off the record that would be quite a thing as of course there is the chance of him losing his job if found out (pretty unlikely i expect, but still the chance is there) , to bother to take any risk at all its logical to think then he would really care about the issues and talk really open and in depth about the ladies attitudes , translations , scams by ladies and agency ..
so guys do you feel you have been talking to someone who is just ' talking positive ' or someone talking passionately about a subject they really care about ..??
Whatever you think lets not attack him , as with all members lsiten , consider , question , input .. thats what makes this site so good
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Whatever you think, lets not attack him as with all members listen, consider, question, input.
That's all I'm saying.
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Many people have stated that a meeting with Proteus would confirm evidence of his sincerity. I think this is a false premise. Unless we were to tag along and follow him through the course of his daily work, we would never know for sure that he is what he says he is or an impersonator. Heck he could even not be working for an agency or Chnlove - just an intellegent sham out for kicks. I have found value in the information he has given and even if he is just a PR person, it then shows that Chnlove has shown interest in our concerns.
I hear coments about our brotherhood affecting the bottom line of Chnlove. I have no idea how many possible clients have come here to this site and have been swayed away from using Chnlove services. I would like to think we have had a great impact, but since we only have about 150 members, lets not talk grandiose power. I am gratefull of what the brotherhood has accomplished. We have come together in the dark and shed light to help guide others that follow in our path.
Right now the power I see us having is in helping those who have stumbled upon this site. Our crusade is to help the brethren, not to audit Chnlove. So far the posts from Proteus have been encouraging. If he is legit - he can not on his own stop all the scams. So why put so much of the possiblities on him. Listen to his words and take that which is usefull.
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Hi all, WTF?, I go away for a week and all hell hits the fan, maybe I should try to find these posts frrom Proteus, but I'm to tired, so please some one tell me whats going on.:huh:
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As a information sharing and support group I believe there is none finer anywhere. The members here are a good caring bunch of guy's with diverse backgrounds and skill sets. Just one of our strengths. Between us we have a wealth of information unrivaled on this subject, and it's growing by the day.
But as a pressure group were rubbish. It's like herding cats. As Rhonald so rightly said "I would like to think we have had a great impact, but since we only have about 150 members, lets not talk grandiose power" If our friend Proteus is a plant from head office,well I take it as a compliment.To think they care about what we in our little backwater say, its reassuring. Maybe just maybe voicing our concerns "might" help clean up there act.
To be honest what we "say" is not going to hit there bottom line, how many male members worldwide do they have! Put agency scams into google,pages of rants about this stuff. Does it hit there bottom line,or does it come with the territory.I'm not saying don't give it a go, just get a little perspective.
We shouldn't get too hung up about this and stick to what we do best,gathering and sharing information and experiences for the benefit of us all. If Proteus has good information lets use it. If it's all misinformation,fluff and nonsense we will all know soon enough. As Karl Marks said "Give him enough Rope"[:D first time I've seen that name in this forum]
[attachment=173] Cool off!
Lets treat him with the respect we all give each other here and give him a fair shout. With a guard dog like Vince at the gate, were all safe enough in here! :D
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I spotted this post and had to give it some serious thought before I put in my two cents.
I think this person might be able to shed some light on issues that we may not begin to understand so here's my idea.
1. Allow him/her to remain but we need to be able to verify the authenticity of him/her and their position as translator in a real and active agency.
2. Require him/her to post the name of their agency and position in their signature, or some acceptable comprimise.
Having a voice from the other side I think could have great value and can give us better balance on some issues.
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We'll see about that.
I will be contacting a TV station here today, see if they want to have a story.
?? What do you intend to do? Have us all interviewed? they better have some $$ for my pockets.
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Never mind, I found the thread, interesting to say the least, I think I will wait to pass judgement. :dodgy:
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Toon, Good luck with that. I hope there are not to many people that live near you. It wears on you when people point and laugh.
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Don't misunderstand me. I am not saying the situation is funny. I am predicting what others will surmise. No matter what the story is, others always get stuck on one part of it. Mail Order Bride.
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I agree with everything Paul said. No need to say it again.
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Whatever became of our humble Proteous. Really enjoyed the sparring as well as useful information he was giving. From the space of the amount of time he's gone MIA I'm pretty sure he or she is out of here. Sometimes good things must come to an end. I do however have doubts to who this person really was. Lately, I've been meeting up with girls that are translators and actual girls from Chnlove and I've learned some interesting things about the goings on with the game. Don't want go into too much detail because too many people on any and all forums with mixed agendas. If anyone wanted specifics pm me and I'll give you the skinny. Not to get off topic yet don't want to forget. Lately, I've been toying with the idea of spending my remaining 45 credits that I've had for the last 7 months. Been sending cupid notes to 27-36 yr olds, starting to see a pattern here, if it's bait the agency replies back with the lady does not find you suitable and wishes you luck in your search. You see I caused untold problems for Chnlove and the bad agencies so once the bad agency sees my cupid they want to play it off that this woman is real and actually looking for her soulmate. I've uncovered a lot of deception through the agencies I've dealt with, not saying they're all bad yet this seems to be a classic, having eye candy to draw in the guys thinking it is real. Noticed quite a few of the agencies have scaled it down quite a bit and more profiles actually appear to be legit as of late. I'm going back to my Chnlove account and will post these suspected phoney profiles for all to see and be forwarned about. Yes, I realize I seem paranoid yet that doesn't negate that people are actually out to rip the brothers off. Paranoia is nothing but heightened awareness.
China Shark Mike
Here are two I'm pretty sure are bait. P5081698 Shelley Xie and P5082720 Lulu Zhou. If the agency is sending letters for the lady pretty sure it is a plant, ringer, whatever you want to call it. Have another one yet want to be totally sure before I post it.
China Shark Mike
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Hi all
I was also wondering what happened to "proteus"...I was hoping that he/she would shed some serious light on all the questions I read here that we all can only theorise about the answers. I have read so many posts here as a newbie of 3 days standing that my eyes are about to fall out! What seems to be the overriding concern is the whole issue of how much, if any CHNLove is complicit in any/all of the discovered scams.
It leads me to wonder, what percentage of the total CHNLove client base (us guys) are here on this excellent site. If we are beginning to represent a fairly large "critical mass" of the total client base, then it would be smart play for CHNL to "plant" Proteus to attempt to pacify this group. I deal with many Chinese Companies/People in my Business and whatever else they are they are MASTERS of making money !!! Anything that threatens this objective gets dealt with quickly and ruthlessly.
Generally, they would do things to make money that we would never countenence in the West...but, it is not right to criticise..it is normal to them and just one of the many cultural differences...the fine line between ethics and deceit. CHNL maybe makes lots of emf money out of many guys who dont know about this forum and who keep blindly falling into the old traps (I was one of them until a few days ago)
If this forum gets to be a biger and bigger part of their total client base(lets hope) then we have got the lever to change things.
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All i will say on the debate, is that Proteus was almost definitely from Hong Kong. very articulate, lack of Americanism's, and general way of putting things across.
Never gave much away either, I didn't expect him to give his name or an agency name ...like some here wanted him to do.
Everything was in the whole, a little too general, what he did give, he could have been what and who, he said he was, or as some suspect, a plant or fact finder..... I think he left quite happy!! knowing, ......Confusion reigns!!!
David....
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Second, after visiting an actual agency this month and talking to a translator, I am sorry to say that I do not believe our group constitutes a significant amount of men on the Chnlove site...they have men coming out the ears writing to Chinese women.
Scott
This is my feeling as well. I hope we can make a difference, but I don't think as yet, that we are the irresistible force meeting the immovable object.
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At the time we are only 1%. We are growing. But what they are doing is not so much a worry of us but to keep the negative posts down as much as possible. Because they are here forever and they know it.